Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Replicant on January 30, 2004, 06:25:43 PM
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Hi, can some identify this medal please?
See thread http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107564
Cheers
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doesnt look like a miltary award. at least not like any ive seen. i would guess its some kind of national socalist party thing. i have a friend who collects uniforms and miltaria, ill ask him. he told me 4-5 years ago that the collectable cash value of that kind of stuff went way down due to reproductions from the original molds and stamps. there is no way to tell the diference now.
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Yeah, there's a lot of fakes out there now. This one was taken from a dead soldier in Germany by the father of my ex-brother-in-law. It had been hidden away for years until I re-discovered it a few years ago.
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Its a spange to the Iron Cross.
"The holder of either class of the Iron Cross of The Great War who distinguishes himself will receive a silver clasp with an eagle (wings outspread) holding a wreath and swastika and the year 1939 which will be worn on the ribbon in the case of the Second Class and pinned above the Cross on the left breast in the case of the First Class."
You can see the top half of one on Rommels left pocket in this picture. He was awarded the Iron Cross 1st class in WWI. So the spange is worn directly above the second WWII Iron Cross 1st Class decoration.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p97490f10a8b816289ab0fc0617da265e/f9c47aee.jpg)
The photo of your example shows what appears to be a reproduction. The proportions aren't correct. Originals were done in a silver wash, not sterling or silver plate. The example in the photo appears to be chromed with a gold background wash or plate.
Here's an original in fair shape, price around $145 US.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/pfaac42a215255cd5096f08f512bfb033/f9c46fd7.jpg)
And your example. Looks like the plating has chipped in the top right hand corner of the "1939" framing ( the "gold" plate is showing ). Originals did not have a "gold" background.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_44_1075508125.jpg)
Fasinating hobby, many books on the subject. I'm a few months in, lots to learn.
Fun stuff.
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What Replicant has is the 1939 spange to the 1914 Iron Cross 1st Class, not to the 1914 Iron Cross 2nd Class:
(http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/iron_cross/1st_class/ironcross1_files/clasp1stf.jpg)
(http://www.dasreich.co.uk/_images/cr_spa_ek1_m_sp_o.jpg)
(http://www.axisawards.homestead.com/files/EK1_1939_spange_fr.jpg)
(http://www.authenticmilitaria.com/militaria/germanwwII/images/EK1spange1.jpg)
As you can see, there was a wide variation in the production and finish quality. The lack of the pebbling in the background of the '1939' date is unusual, but it's within the range of variation in the images I found. The 'gold' background look s more like a brass or pot metal casting, with the rest of the face given a wash of silver, leaving the base metal exposed in the recessed backgrounds. However, lacking any real knowledge of the variation, and without seeing the reverse, I wouldn't make a judgement on whether or not it's a reproduction.
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Originally posted by Shiva
As you can see, there was a wide variation in the production and finish quality. The lack of the pebbling in the background of the '1939' date is unusual, but it's within the range of variation in the images I found. The 'gold' background look s more like a brass or pot metal casting, with the rest of the face given a wash of silver, leaving the base metal exposed in the recessed backgrounds. However, lacking any real knowledge of the variation, and without seeing the reverse, I wouldn't make a judgement on whether or not it's a reproduction.
Thanks Shiva.
The 'Gold' background is simply tarnish/dirt which would clean up if I used a toothbrush on it (the whole medal goes that colour if it isn't cleaned). I just gave it a quick clean before scanning it in.
I did take it to a military fayre many years ago with my late Father and they did say it was genuine, whether they were correct or not I don't know. It was so long ago that I hadn't a clue what it really was since I was only about 8 at the time and didn't have a great interest in the subject as I do now. My ex-brother-in-law's father always told me that he stole it off a dead German soldier, since he did serve in WW2. Whether that was just a tale to keep me amused or the truth but everything else he said rang true. He gave it to me in about 1979/1980 and he had it tucked away in a box full of other WW2 stuff which was kept in his attic. I thought it was actually brass since it looked that colour and it wasn't until I cleaned it that it came up with a silver finish. I'm going to email the pic to a specialist and see if they can come up with any more info!
I also found this "A slight variation existed in an example that could be screwed to the uniform, versus pinned. Another variation existed unoffically in a cloth version, but this was very rarely used, if at all. The Spange can be considered a variation on the EK1 in the sense that it was awarded in place of the actual medal if the individual being awarded had previously held the Iron Cross Ist Class during WWI. The 1914 Spange for the EK1 was slightly larger than the 1914 Spange for the EK2."
I also found that the smaller EK2 style was issued as an original and then a privately home made type one aswell, and this would appear to be of lower quality.
This one did have a pin but it's long been damaged and knocked off.
Thanks! :)
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Blimey, sent an email to a specialist and already got a reply in under an hour! He wrote "It certainly looks crisp enough to be genuine. and if you have had it 25 years i would say it probably is genine. i dont think fakes would have been up to this standard back then! check out the back of the spange for maker marks e.g. L/16 or something."
Obviously need someone to inspect it closer to make sure!
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One thing I completely overlooked is privately made ( not gov issue ) medals were also seen quite often. Either for dress occassions or in the case of the EK, German Cross or others were the soldier didn't want to wear the originals in the field.
This site does free appraisals.
http://www.germanmilitaria.com/
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Originally posted by Replicant
The 1914 Spange for the EK1 was slightly larger than the 1914 Spange for the EK2."
I also found that the smaller EK2 style was issued as an original and then a privately home made type one aswell, and this would appear to be of lower quality.
Jeez I love this stuff. On a field uniform the EK2 is worn as a black red and white ribbon at the second button hole. The spange to a EK2 is worn as a black and white ribbon at that button hole with a minuture spange medal attached instead of the WWII version. The Spange to the EK1 is worn above the EK1 as has been shown and discussed.
From what I can tell the Spange to the EK2 is worn on the ribbon suspending the EK2 for formal occasions as in this picture. Haven't found a photo of it though. It would definately be smaller. Formal dress occasions it would be on the ribbon on the medal bar.
(http://www.feldgrau.com/EK2pic.jpg)