Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Apache on December 09, 2001, 11:52:00 AM
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Lots of whining lately in the MA about HO dweebs. My position is, if you get HO'ed, you are the dweeb.
Avoiding the head on attack is basic ACM and SA. You have ailerons, elevators and rudder for a reason. Use it. A simple nose down rudder kick and aileron roll to low 2 o'clock works well. If he adjusts, you adjust. Don't become a target. You don't fly straight and level with a con on your 6 do ya?
I mean after all, if you're being HO'ed by a P51, its natural to assume you have an easy kill on your hands, right? :)
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out of 7 HO's i only one 1. :mad:
I hate HO's i always think "ohhh an easy kill!" then i go down with my wings mission.
I HATE HO's!!!!!!!
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I try and evade every HO someone makes on me. But there are times when they start spraying long distance and jerk their stick just right and get you no matter what you do. So please don't start using the ignorant line that "it takes two to HO." Nothing is more frustrating than to be hit evading an HO.
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I HO everyone I can and enjoy it! but if ya really really don't like it then turn tail and lemme shoot your six :)
Almost forgot to mention I'll shoot yer chute after I HO ya too
[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: Professor Fate ]
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If you are co-alt level and you see a HO coming, put your nose down and dive 30-45 degrees. Bandit will have to pull negative gees to follow you. He will also be diving and going above corner speed. Then pull up right as he passes over you.
Timing is important here. Pull up as early as possible without ramming him. You want to go right behind his tail.
He will now be pointing nose down and probably above corner speed. In order to turn back to you he has to make a high-g energy robbing turn against gravity. Meanwhile you are completing an Immelman which you started while he was still spraying.
If he turns back, you will probably have more energy and you have some angles because you turned first. You can rope him or chandelle or if he really sucks (like if he does a flat turn), pull right onto his 6.
If he doesn't turn you are now behind him instead of in front of him, conserving energy with your Immelman while he was bleeding energy in a shallow dive.
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Avoid??
Did he say AVOID a HO?
Not while I got 20 bucks smokin a hole in my pocket....
... or a Mossie.
:D
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Originally posted by Frost:
I try and evade every HO someone makes on me. But there are times when they start spraying long distance and jerk their stick just right and get you no matter what you do. So please don't start using the ignorant line that "it takes two to HO." Nothing is more frustrating than to be hit evading an HO.
Your basicly right Frost, "It takes two to HO" not always the case, but 9 times out of ten if you even TRY to avoid it...you do.
Tumor
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Avoid the Head On? Easy
Let em come at ya, then open up with the 30mm's :) All these new players make it easy...they came at YOU, no manuevering or steering required :D
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If yer gonna HO, go fer Goons or Arado's. If I'm in anything else I'm likely to poke large holes in your canopy, and a little thing like that could ruin yer whole sortie.
:D
[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Hangtime ]
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I think it's interesting, err, the title of this thread. There HAS definately been an increase in the amount of HO attacks. Personally I think (think) it may have to do with the huge amount of Air Warrior's showing up. (this is not an Air Warrior flame, proud of my years in Air Warrior too). With head-on guns almost completely useless as they were in Air Warrior, I not so fondly remember the irritating tactic that became the norm in Air Warrior...turning nose to nose with your aggressor. Not that it's a bad tactic, very smart in some cases, but it became what seemed like the ONLY tactic in Air Warrior...ask Krusher how much I used to rant about it lol, he'll tell'ya. Lotsa folks are still doing it I'm sure, heck I left AW over a year ago and I still catch myself doing it now and again. HO's will settle down I'm sure as time goes on.
Tumor
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Lephturns Aerodome (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/) has a nice article on this subject.
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Other instance of HO usually occurs when an energy-superior plane attempts a loop or an elongated Immelmann. The energy-inferior plane keeps his nose up and attempts to meet head on when the E-superior plane finishes the Loop/Immelmann and noses down. This is the most often when those HO whine/happenings occur on channel 1.. :rolleyes:
Up to some point, I personally feel "dweebery" is in there somewhere.
Unless it is a total newbie, the guy who keeps his nose up through the whole move and aims at the down coming plane knows he is following a dope move, but still risks HO when other options are clearly available - not following a vertical move... Split-S outta way... dive down to friendly cover etc etc. etc.
Personally, I feel that is a sort of a suicidal gung-ho which denounces the meaning of ACM itself - maneuvering to win, attacking the enemy efficiently, shooting down the opponent without getting shot down first... no different from suicidal CV attacks.
The solution for E-superior plane pilot:
Don't complete the Loop/Immelmann. ;)
No reason to put your head on the line when the guy under you risks blowing all his E, doesn't care about SA, doesn't give a sh** whether he might be also damaged in the process of HO, but just aims blindly up at you. Level out at the top of the move, gain some speed, do a quick wing over or an another short Loop.
...
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"I not so fondly remember the irritating tactic that became the norm in Air Warrior...turning nose to nose with your aggressor. "
At least that encouraged people to point their nose at the enemy and fight it out, as opposed to the standard AH tactic of running.
:-P
J_A_B
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Avoid Head-on ??
Well that depends entirely upon firepower and durability of the plane i fly :D
In the C-Hog i'll gladly take any front quarter shot that presents itselfewithout putting myselfe in an unreasonably position.
Chers
DW6
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Whereas HO's are generally bad and should be rightly avoided. HO'in buffs should be encouraged and indeed lauded. It's a fine and honourable pastime. Just get a couple of hundred feet above the buff dive into into it by the time your in guns range the top or bottom turrets are useless and his only chance is to use main guns, but if you are aiming for his wing he can't hit you.
Seriously tho its to easy to avoid HO's, I normally do exactly what Funked suggests and it works fine. The only time I will take a HO is if I'm in watermelon I know I can't dig my way out of it by ACM alone, and anyone whos goes HO with a plane who is in this situation deserves the consequences.
Also somebody gave out about the superior e plane gettin HO'd by a guy with inferior e who keeps his nose in the air. Well if the plane with the superior e is silly enough to do this then he deserves to die, remember, your goin down the dweeb is goin up, whos gonna hit the ground first, you are!! So dont do it, rope him and claim your kill that way.
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Flt.Lt.Gremlin
56th Firebirds "Fighter" Squadron RAF.
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/56sig.gif)
"Heavy Tiffies, 100% Fuel, Were on a mission."
[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Gremlin ]
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If I am in a big-gun-go-fast-but-won't-turn plane, am low and in a cloud of your friends, and I outgun you, I will HO. If the situation is reversed, I won't.
It's situational. When it is in your best interest to do so, do it. In the above scenario it can be that thinning the pack a little may be the only choice you have. Keep it fast, take what shots you have. 8x.50 on a jug vs. anything? Don't get in my way. 109 with 30mm and pods? Stay away from the pointy end of the stick. Mossie? Only a fool would HO against a Mossie.
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Kweassa-
It can just as easily be argued that, since death is only virtual, we are able to learn things in a way we couldn't in the real world, i.e. we can try things that would get us killed and learn from it. This arguably could make us better ACM students, don't you think?
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I think we need to define what a head on is. I almost always fly either a p38 or p51, usually the 51. Difference is, I fly it like an angles fiter. I usually win the merge which gives me a slight advanage as the nme turns to meet me but because the 51 rates the nose so slowley I usually find myself with my nose on the nme and his nose almost in firing parameters pointed right at me. I will of course hose'em down with the 50's because I know that I've only got maybe one more turn for him to make a mistake before I need to disengage. When I hit him while in these positions I am almost always greeted with a "nice ho" message. If you turn ur airplane around, it aint a head on, you lost the fight, live with it.
I have to agree with frost. One of the reasons the f4c was perked was because every dween on the planet would just point his nose at you and spray. Even when you tried to avoid, %50 of the time you got hit.
CRASH
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Eff this avoiding the Ho crap. Tell me how do I avoid this getting shot from behind bullsh7t? I mean, what self respecting person would shoot another.... in the back!
Westy
(and Tumor is dead on. The HO rate goes up dramatically every time there is a sudden influx of players. AH has always had players who would HO anythng they sawy but these new folks who supposedly flew using ACM (As JAB states) seem to have forgotten all that in thier transition)
[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
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you would think kieran
but that aint the case the same fella will nose up on ya again and again. Even if he dies 90% time.
Seems to me most folks dont give a crap about rtbn. They want kills. If they can kill 1 more then they die well thats a success.
They never try to learn a better way. All that acm stuff takes to much work and there chances of successfully using acm to their advantage is slim.
These here are "fast food" killers. As long as they get um fast so what if it kills umm.
Just respawn and go suicide a cv......
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Wotan-
It would be foolishness for me to deny what you say to some extent, but consider, no amount of changing the game parameters will ever change that mindset. People will either enjoy and stay or not enjoy and leave.
I've had terrific fun furballing and not caring whether I lived.
I've had terrific fun helping to capture a base or taking down a CV (and living, I might add).
I've done many a desperate "one-man, vultched mercilessly" base defenses because I was all that stood between a defenseless base and another capture.
I have been high in a B17 hoping I can make the run before the swarm of 109's/190's take me out.
I have done the lowly C47 NOE mission into harm's way, one time even taxiing in from 2K away.
Guess what I'm saying is that all manner of play exists, and most of them can co-exist peacefully (as is possible in a war sim). HO'ing is a low odds tactic in most cases, but nonetheless valid.
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I like setting up for a HO and at the last secound reversing them.. works great since there is indeed there is a lot of people doing it, please dont stop :)
One thing i cant stand about them is when its the ONLY thing someone will do in a fight, every pass they go for a HO. Ive only experienced one fight where it got to the point of me screeming at the idiot, in the most nimble AC and makes 7 HO passes.. thats kinda frustrating. even if you reverse them, they can extend and turn back into HO.. Just makes you have to evade more, very annoying.. but that makes the booty for winning so much sweater :)
you can call them names and take home the prize! :D
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I'm of 2 minds when it comes to HO'ing.
I'll avoid them if I have similiar or less firepower or E advantage or if its 1 vs 1.
I'll HO if I have Hispano's vs anything russian or luftwaffe or when I'm on the deck and being BnZ by a good pilot who won't let me a up.
Anything more then a 2 vs 1 n i'll HO my bellybutton off too.
N i'll HO if i'm totally outclassed and pretty much know i'm gonna die anyway.
Pyemia AKA Zygote
:(
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awwwww and 262's everytime :D
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I'm not crazy about HO's either but, the longer I fly AH, the more I am amazed by the numbers of pilits who try and use em. When they lose, some of them immediately get on CH1 and complain. Thing is, I know immediately when a guy is gonna try a HO. I see him off in the distance and make my way towards the nme a/c. The nme sees me and turns to me and makes a beeline directly for me. Now if this guy isnt hdg for an HO showdown then, I don't know what is in his mind. I figure I was there first so, I'm not backing down and lose any advantage I initially had. I fire soon as I get close enough and I point my nose down to go under him and avoid his spray. I will prolly be quicker on the trigger and he will take serious damage. Moral of the story: If you don't like HO's avoid them.
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Kweassa - I know quite well the situation you describe. My favorite thing to do there (as the guy with all the energy) is a chandelle - steeply climbing turn. Try to read when the HO is going to stall then pounce on him. :)
The guy with all the energy dictates the fight. If he is stupid enough to fly into the HO he deserves it. :)
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If at first you join AH and are HO crazy, I mean you will HO a chog with a tbm, but if you still HO alot after playing a month or so well then you can be classified as just daring or stupid (depending on your win/loss ratio). If after a month or two of playing and you cry about HO's well then you're just stupid because they are easily avoided 92% of the time and if you get HO'd when you're slow and cannot maneuver out of the way, well then you just got caught with your pants down doing something not so smart for the situation and if ya whine about that, you will just not only look stupid but also like an idiot. If you been playing longer than 3 months and ever whine about HO's no matter what the situation, then you're just a puss and need to start "flying" with a pacifier in your face to soothe yourself, but mainly to keep that hole plugged.