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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Chaos68 on December 09, 2001, 12:00:00 PM

Title: jap planes?
Post by: Chaos68 on December 09, 2001, 12:00:00 PM
how come you cant select japanese planes from the carrier?
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Kingonads on December 09, 2001, 12:06:00 PM
Cause the A6M5 is the only CV plane for the Japanese we have, I have been begging for more but they havent gotten to it yet.  The N1K2 is a IJN/IJA land based fighter and the KI61 is souly a IJA plane and the IJA did not like the IJN.  

                              Hodo
Title: jap planes?
Post by: pdog_109 on December 09, 2001, 01:55:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kingonads:
IJA did not like the IJN

Understatement of the year.
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Karnak on December 09, 2001, 07:42:00 PM
N1K2 is exclusively an IJN aircraft.

All IJA aircraft are labeled as Ki-x, which simply reflects their place in the order rank.  The Ki-61 was ordered/in service before the Ki-67 we are getting in 1.09.  The ID doesn't at all reflect that the Ki-61 is a fighter and the Ki-67 is a bomber.

The IJN had a much more complex system of aircrat ID.  For example the A6M5b Zero-Sen works out as follows:

A = Carrier Fighter
6 = 6th such (carrier fighter in this case)
M = Manufactured by Mitsubishi
5 = 5th major version of the aircraft
b = 3rd minor variet of the major version of the aircraft.

The N1K2-J Shiden-Kai is:

N = Fighter Seaplane (the N1K series started life as fighter seaplanes)
1 = 1st such
K = Manufactured by Kawanishi
2 = 2nd major version of the aircraft
-J = Changed from previous use to Land-based Fighter

BTW, please don't use the term "japs".  Use "Japanese", or "jpn" if you want to contract the word.  "Japs" is a slur.
Title: jap planes?
Post by: GRUNHERZ on December 09, 2001, 07:55:00 PM
LoL dont mind Karnak, hes from Marin County....   :D
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Sunchaser on December 09, 2001, 08:03:00 PM
Actually I expected the PCers to get in earlier, you guys are slippin'.
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Karnak on December 09, 2001, 08:25:00 PM
Japanese nationals have stated that it is an insulting word.  I'll take their word for it as they would best know.

BTW, I'm not from Marin county, I simply happen to live here.
Title: jap planes?
Post by: J_A_B on December 09, 2001, 08:38:00 PM
"Japanese nationals have stated that it is an insulting word. I'll take their word for it as they would best know."

Japanese nationals (and most of their textbooks) have also stated that the Bataan death march never happened and that POWs weren't mistreated at all, but I wouldn't take their word for that.  Just something to think about.

Pretty much anything that has to do with WW2, including the word "jap", is taboo to the Japanese in my experience.

IMO "Jap" is an abbreviation, not a slur.  It's like calling the British "Brits" or the Polish "Poles".

As to the original post in this thread, the A6M series was the only signifigant carrier fighter they had.

J_A_B
Title: jap planes?
Post by: GRUNHERZ on December 09, 2001, 08:52:00 PM
BTW, I'm not from Marin county, I simply happen to live here.


And the difference is?   :D
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Kweassa on December 09, 2001, 10:34:00 PM
Use "JP".

 Shorter, faster and no racial discrimination issues.

  :)
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Citabria on December 10, 2001, 02:57:00 AM
Quote
BTW, please don't use the term "japs".  Use "Japanese", or "jpn" if you want to contract the word.  "Japs" is a slur.[/QB]


mitsu says its cool to use japs as reference to jap aircraft, pilots n such so I make a point to do that since its easier to read and type than japanese or jpn
Title: jap planes?
Post by: GRUNHERZ on December 10, 2001, 04:32:00 AM
I agree with Citabria.

The problem with you liberals is that you too often wanna effectivly ban or restrict something because YOU may feel its offensive and it may make you feel guilty. "Japs" is a perfect example I think, even though I dont really like or use that term personally.

Would you wanna ban Brit, Yank, Kraut, Ami, or Frog?

All these have a certain history too, dont they?
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Karnak on December 10, 2001, 04:56:00 AM
GRUNHERZ,

You don't know anything about me.  I happen to think that "Political Correctness" is a crock.  Its a transparent attempt at censorship and thought adjustment from the left and an ateempt to make our language bland.

I do not think that not using racial slurs is a PC issue.  PC crap is like alling somebody "vertically challenged" instead of a midget or dwarf, "weight challeneged" instrad of fat.  Its stupid, and its an attempt at censorship from the left.

I have been told by Japanese-Americans and Japanese nationals that "Jap" is a racial slur to them.  I took them at their word, and I still do.  Mitsu appears to not hold that perspective, but he does not speak for all Japanese.

The worst thing that I have seen the PC BS do is allow people to be rude and insulting and respond to comments critical of their behavior by saying that they don't like that liberal PC crap when the behavior whould have been seen as rude and inappropriate by society in general well before PC came about.
Title: jap planes?
Post by: snafu on December 10, 2001, 06:11:00 AM
Hi All,
 In an attempt to drag this thread back to it's original topic.....

to Expand on Karnak's explanation of Japanese Aircraft designations Follow this link.
 http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=65&t=000067 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=65&t=000067)

TTFN
snafu
Title: jap planes?
Post by: K West on December 10, 2001, 09:47:00 AM
"Would you wanna ban Brit, Yank, Kraut, Ami, or Frog?"

 If anyone posted on this ubb that any of those terms they found offensive then I for one would respect them enough not to use it.
About a year ago an AH player from Japan posted that he found the word 'Jap" to be offensive. Especially in the context it's most often used. I've respectd his wish and have ensured I have not (didn't before anyway) used it. It's about respect to other players. It has nothing to do with respect or honour (or lack of either) towards real life comrads or adversaries 60 years ago.

Westy

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Revvin on December 10, 2001, 10:05:00 AM
The terms can be inoffensive as long as you know the person you are talking to some Japanese people find it highly offensive so why do you feel the need to use it when you know the hurt it causes alot of people?. If someone finds it offensive then please don't use it,  and don't call me a liberal either because thats just an excuse for you to carry on your anti-social behaviour hiding behind some misguided freedom of speech excuse.

J_A_B> How typical to defend your use of a word alot of people find offensive by making references to the war..what's your follow up going to be "we won the war so there!"? grow up.
Title: jap planes?
Post by: J_A_B on December 10, 2001, 10:24:00 AM
"J_A_B> How typical to defend your use of a word alot of people find offensive by making references to the war..what's your follow up going to be "we won the war so there!"? grow up."

Actually I wouldn't say "we won the war so there" because it's not relevant.

I frankly do not care whether some people find "Jap" to be offensive.  Some people are offended at almost anything.  IMO they need to grow a thicker skin and stop whining.  "Jap" may not be especially nice, but it's certainly not a racial slur like the much hated "N" word used in reference to those of African descent.  

If I walked around calling all Japanese "yellow-skinned nips" it'd be a different matter.  THAT is a racial slur.  "Jap" is an abbreviation.

I am certainly not going to tiptoe around carefully proofreading everything I say because something MIGHT offend a few people of delicate sensibility.

[sigh] There's too many whiners in the world.

J_A_B
Title: jap planes?
Post by: john9001 on December 10, 2001, 10:27:00 AM
japanese history books refer to WW2 as a minor trade disagrement between USA and japan
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Revvin on December 10, 2001, 10:59:00 AM
J_A_B> You're just being bloodied minded and arogant ignoring the fact that ALOT of people find the term 'Jap' offensive, I've seen this thread done to death in WB and AH forums and alot of people say they find if offensive so its hardly a few people being overly sensitive, more to the point its the likes of you being insensitive. I'm not thin skinned by any stretch of the imagination, part of my job involves visiting construction sites so I've had my fair share of insensitive people.

To alot of Japanese people the word 'jap' is just as offensive as 'cupcake' Its not about proof-reading every post you make its about one word that some people find offensive and small minded people like you telling them basically 'not to be so silly' Call it liberalism if you like but its just another vogue media buzz word to excuse anti-social behaviour and has nothing to do with whining.

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Revvin ]
Title: jap planes?
Post by: J_A_B on December 10, 2001, 11:34:00 AM
Revvin--this last post of yours was more thought out than your last one.  I respect your opinion on this matter, but I disagree with you.

I do not ignore the fact that "jap" may be offensive to some people (or a "lot" as you say).  Again, if you read my posts you'll find that I don't use the word much, if at all.  

But I take exception to people who raise a stink if someone says it every now and then, especially in the context it was used in this case.  It amounts to a matter or proportion.  "Jap" is the same as calling me a "Yank" (and IMO less offensive than calling me a childish jerk as you essentially did).  It's something that a normal well-adjusted person should simply brush off.   Comparing it to things like "cupcake" is sinply blowing it way out of proportion.

J_A_B
Title: jap planes?
Post by: YardBird on December 10, 2001, 12:13:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by J_A_B:
... It amounts to a matter or proportion.  "Jap" is the same as calling me a "Yank" (and IMO less offensive than calling me a childish jerk as you essentially did).  It's something that a normal well-adjusted person should simply brush off.   Comparing it to things like "cupcake" is sinply blowing it way out of proportion.

Hoo Boy. To be as politically correct as I can, let me say this: I believe the bovine excrement will soon strike the electric air current accelerator over THAT one!

YardBird <-(follically challenged)
           (okay, I'm bald)


  :D
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Revvin on December 10, 2001, 01:45:00 PM
J_A_B if you were to tell me, or anyone else here that you really found the word "yank" offensive then I would stop using it out of courtesy to you as a user of this board its as simple asthat, not political correctness just common courtesy. I hardly use the word anyway especially in public places of forums unless I know the people I am talking about don't take it as an insult, just as an example I have a german friend who playfully gets called a kraut, I'm a 'tommy' its just an in joke between us and harmless.

I have no Japanese connections so have no axe to grind on this subject but we were asked politely not to use it as it causedsomeone offense. I think its takes very small effort to comply with his wishes to not cause him or many others offense, Sometimes words slip out and we don't mean no harm, just a slip of the tongue. I would have thought over the last few months we've learnt enough about racial and religious intolerance in the world to last us a lifetime.

Thats all I have to say, you guys do your own thing but just take a minute to think about the words you use..is it that much to ask?

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Revvin ]
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Shamus on December 10, 2001, 01:53:00 PM
OK, I am an American but most of my family lives in Canada, I will therfore thank you all for refraining from using the term Yank or Canuck in this BBS or the main arena text buffer, of course this does not apply to my squadies on rw as those crude bastards are likely say anything and dont give a damn about my sensitivities  :rolleyes:

Shamus
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Pyemia on December 10, 2001, 06:28:00 PM
Kraut and Frog should'nt be used imo.

I find it rather amusing that people try to justify using racist terms by citing atrocities committed by a bunch of dead people in a war fought long ago.

Some Japanese did commit atrocities during WW2 yes, some Japanese risked their own lives to secretly help allied POW's during the war as well.  I've read eye witness accounts by the POW's telling of this.

When the Americans and Russians stormed into Berlin, they committed atrocities (rapes, murdering civilians etc.)

In fact in any war, where people are killing other humans for any length of time, they'll start to do things they would'nt normally do.  You and I would do the same.

Mylai is a good example of this.  Very interesting read if you get around to it.


---------------------------------------------

Did the Japanese have any other good IJN fighters?


Pyemia AKA Zygote

  :(
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Seeker on December 10, 2001, 10:59:00 PM
"Frog" is compulsory, and *must* be used at each and every occasion where it can be shown there is a member of the hygenicly challenged present.

"Kraut" is acceptable, although it should be noted that "super kraut" has been exclusively reserved by Austria for their own use.

That is all.
Title: jap planes?
Post by: Tumor on December 11, 2001, 12:57:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Revvin:
J_A_B if you were to tell me, or anyone else here that you really found the word "yank" offensive then I would stop using it out of courtesy to you as a user of this board its as simple asthat, not political correctness just common courtesy. I hardly use the word anyway especially in public places of forums unless I know the people I am talking about don't take it as an insult, just as an example I have a german friend who playfully gets called a kraut, I'm a 'tommy' its just an in joke between us and harmless.

I have no Japanese connections so have no axe to grind on this subject but we were asked politely not to use it as it causedsomeone offense. I think its takes very small effort to comply with his wishes to not cause him or many others offense, Sometimes words slip out and we don't mean no harm, just a slip of the tongue. I would have thought over the last few months we've learnt enough about racial and religious intolerance in the world to last us a lifetime.

Thats all I have to say, you guys do your own thing but just take a minute to think about the words you use..is it that much to ask?

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Revvin ]

  I won't say whether the word "Jap" is good or bad.  Truth is, I don't care.  I will say when 1 or 2 people in a crowd of 100 feel "offended" by something, let them feel offended.  Again, I don't care.  This sounds just like a recent "Santa Claus" issue I heard in the news.  "Well folks, Santa's not invited to the big celebration, a couple of families complained they were offended because they weren't christian".  F'em...they can come have a good time or stay the *F* home would be my answer.

  :mad:

Tumor
Title: jap planes?
Post by: straffo on December 11, 2001, 01:13:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by O'Westy:
[QB]"Would you wanna ban Brit, Yank, Kraut, Ami, or Frog?"
Call me canibal it's more close to the truth ... ;)