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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on February 04, 2004, 05:53:08 PM

Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: Ripsnort on February 04, 2004, 05:53:08 PM
...so, where can I find literature of what you mentioned in another thread about the grouping, etc. ?  I seem to be hitting within the target area, but grouping it low and to the left (50 feet).  I'm accustomed to plainking with a .22 caliber for target practice, with it, my grouping is tight and centered but not with this .40 S&W. Low and to the left.

(Out of fairness, this .40 frame is quite abit heavier than  the .22 as well)

Suggestions, websites, books?
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: MrCoffee on February 04, 2004, 06:47:04 PM
Rip, I figure a guy like you should be shooting real 10mm, not that sissy .40 stuff. lol

:D
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: Ripsnort on February 04, 2004, 06:55:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MrCoffee
Rip, I figure a guy like you should be shooting real 10mm, not that sissy .40 stuff. lol

:D


0.39399999999999996 is smaller than .40 ;)

I swear, I have a filling thats loosened after hearing that Desert Eagle go off about 50 times.
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: bustr on February 04, 2004, 07:03:20 PM
Are you shooting a semi-auto .40 s&w? I have a Glock 27 in .40 sw. The shell ejection causes me to shoot left. But my barrel is 31/2,,,so the firing and ejection cycle creates quite a bit of recoil to my left as well as up and back.

Just a thought. I simply compensate by using better form when I shoot it.
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: Ripsnort on February 04, 2004, 07:06:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bustr
Are you shooting a semi-auto .40 s&w? I have a Glock 27 in .40 sw. The shell ejection causes me to shoot left. But my barrel is 31/2,,,so the firing and ejection cycle creates quite a bit of recoil to my left as well as up and back.

Just a thought. I simply compensate by using better form when I shoot it.


Yes, semi-auto. I did find myself compensating through the sites, I'll try my stance( I have a tendency to have my left foot foward a bit without noticing it, old "rifle habit"...). Thanks!
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: MrCoffee on February 04, 2004, 07:09:55 PM
Just toying with ya. Biggest round I've shot was a 45 and some 9mm. That was a long time ago too. Never shot a big 10 or a .40. All rentals at the range.

Somebody did have a Dessert Eagle nearby and it was very loud.
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: GRUNHERZ on February 04, 2004, 07:13:45 PM
Desert Eagle .50 is very loud, even with earmuffs on it still gave me ringing and a headache after shooting just one box of ammo through it.  But boy is it fun, not enjoyable or pleasent in any way to shoot, but fun. :)
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: MrCoffee on February 04, 2004, 07:14:04 PM
Though I have seen someone shot once. Was at Winchells doughnuts a very long time ago and some guy got shot during some local gang fight in the parking lot. After it was over, I went out to see and he was hit by a 22 in his calf and the hole was so small. Looked like a big misquito bite. Dumb gangbangers.

:D
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 04, 2004, 07:25:25 PM
http://www.1911.org


Look it up somewhere.  Those guns are gun fanatics.
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: wrag on February 04, 2004, 07:40:13 PM
Grouping low and left suggests that the shooter is pushing...

pushing is when the shooter anticipates the recoil and pushes against that recoil just a split second, or a fraction of a second, before firing or even during the powder burn and bullet traveling down the barrel.

flinching occurs when the shooter reacts to the recoil by pulling away from the recoil during that same time period.  This tends to group high and right.

A way to test this is to have someone load your mag with one dummy round or short load your mag (if you expect 10 shots and only get 4 to 7 and you are concentrating on the sight picture you probably will not notice the slide is back) and set the firearm down for u to use.  It is important that you not know when the firearm will missfire.

When you get to the end of the mag or the dummy round, (important --->without your knowledge!), and you squeez the trigger you can quite literally see what it is you are doing.
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: Ripper29 on February 04, 2004, 07:44:43 PM
^ What he said....  Low and left is anticipation of the shot and recoil (assuming that your a right handed shooter).  High and right is flinching.  Lots of dry firing practice will help with this.

:D
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: Mini D on February 04, 2004, 07:48:54 PM
What wrag said.  It's the first thing I thought of when I saw your post.

MiniD
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: Ripsnort on February 04, 2004, 07:53:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by wrag
Grouping low and left suggests that the shooter is pushing...

pushing is when the shooter anticipates the recoil and pushes against that recoil just a split second, or a fraction of a second, before firing or even during the powder burn and bullet traveling down the barrel.

flinching occurs when the shooter reacts to the recoil by pulling away from the recoil during that same time period.  This tends to group high and right.

A way to test this is to have someone load your mag with one dummy round or short load your mag (if you expect 10 shots and only get 4 to 7 and you are concentrating on the sight picture you probably will not notice the slide is back) and set the firearm down for u to use.  It is important that you not know when the firearm will missfire.

When you get to the end of the mag or the dummy round, (important --->without your knowledge!), and you squeez the trigger you can quite literally see what it is you are doing.




Thanks!
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: Chairboy on February 04, 2004, 07:57:16 PM
Wrag,

That's an excellent post!  I can definately use it and the dummy round trick is very cool.

Thanks!
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: mrblack on February 04, 2004, 07:59:38 PM
Sometimes smaller is better.
imagine your trying to hit something with say a 454 casull
sure IF ya hit the dude hes going down.
But the chances of you hitting someone with one of those flinch inducing cannons is small.

But with a nice smith 40.cal you can pump maybe 2-3 well placed shots into him in the same time frame.

Yeppers I will take the 40 cal anyday.
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: bigsky on February 05, 2004, 03:44:21 AM
ditto on what wrag said. you can always get a conversion kit. after i got my glock 22 .40 ( i bought it when they first were out) i found a springfield armory pistol that had both 9mm and .40 barrels so you could target practice with cheap 9mm. then switch it back to .40. but of course i already got the glock. when i got my pistol .40 was $25 for a box of 50. i rarely shot it. you can get a .22 conversion kit too. they generaly pay for themselves if you shoot alot.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/Store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=5476&title=SEMI-AUTO+.22+LR+CONVERSION+KIT

here is where i buy ammo at good prices;

http://www.jgsales.com./
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: lazs2 on February 05, 2004, 08:17:01 AM
rip... go to the ammoman.com and look at the targets.. there is one that will explain your patterns.  

As I said earlier, you are flinching or, anticipating the shot.. it may allso have to do with grip... you are either squeezing with your other fingers or relaxing to soon.

I tend to shoot to the left because my fingers are long and I can't get a decent trigger finger (too much finger).

but... just because you are a limp wristed flincher afraid of recoil doesn't make you less of a man in our eyes...  Oh... wait... this  is a little .40?   nevermind.

lazs
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2004, 08:25:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
but... just because you are a limp wristed flincher afraid of recoil doesn't make you less of a man in our eyes...  Oh... wait... this  is a little .40?   nevermind.

lazs


(http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/images/smilies/gay.gif)

Thanks.  Hmmm, my hands and fingers are extremely large too, (8.25 " from bottom of palm to top  of middle finger)
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: lazs2 on February 05, 2004, 08:33:18 AM
If your finger hits the trigger on the second pad instead of the first you will have problems.   I can force myself to awkwardly use the first pad but it seems better to me to learn to shoot from my natural grip.

lazs
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2004, 08:54:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
If your finger hits the trigger on the second pad instead of the first you will have problems.   I can force myself to awkwardly use the first pad but it seems better to me to learn to shoot from my natural grip.

lazs


My .22 pistol has a slightly larger frame than this Taurus.  Neither trigger is hitting the 2nd pad on the finger though.
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: lazs2 on February 05, 2004, 08:59:20 AM
well... if you had manly hands like mine....

lazs
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2004, 09:03:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
well... if you had manly hands like mine....

lazs


No, they're limp, you said so yourself :D (Wanna arm wrestle?) ;)
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: lazs2 on February 05, 2004, 11:38:29 AM
sure... we could put something under your elbow to get your hand up high enough I suppose.

I don't have a beretta or taurus handy but... with a standard 1911.... the trigger hits about the center of the second pad on my trigger finger.

in any case... you need to learn to fix whatever the problem is.    If your first round is on target and the others off... you are probly flinching.   if you can shoot the 22 and then you shoot the first round well out of the 40... you are flinching..   nothjing to be ashamed of.... I flinch after a box or so of 44 mags through the 4" ruger.

lazs
Title: Lazs-Gun control is the ability to hit your target
Post by: Gunslinger on February 05, 2004, 12:01:09 PM
CLaymore mines are more likely to hit your target....but that's just the marine in me....I'm awsome with the M-16 but cant shoot a pistol for beans