Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wanker on February 06, 2004, 07:47:21 AM
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Ok, straight up. I'm an agnostic. My whole life, I've been trying to find some way to believe in God. But every time I read about another little girl who is kidnapped and killed like Carlie, I become even more convinced that God is a figment of our imagination. What kind of merciful God would have this as his plan for a little girl?
I'm listening, Christians. Was this God's plan for Carlie?
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As an agnostic I am no expert on religous dogma, but I think that George Burn's character in the original 'Oh God' said it best when he replied to the question of why He would let starvation and poverty run rampant in the world.
He replied to John Denver's character, "How can you let it happen?"
If this is the guy who kidnapped and killed her, he could have been stopped at any one of his numerous previous arrests.
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Trying to find goodness in this is like trying to find goodness in genocide.
Believers will tell you that evil deeds are the product of god's willingness to allow us to practice free will, but where is the free will of those onto which the evil deeds are done? I don't see any godliness in child abuse, in the murder of millions of helpless citizens by heavily armed dictators and in ravenous plague.
Yes, I too am an agnostic. I believe in a higher power. I just don't think it cares about our well-being as much as some would like to believe. The Earth-centered (read: human centered)Universe theory should have died out after Galileo but apparently we're still, in some way, blessed beyond our understanding that Carlie is dead and that more will follow.
God's messege to me has always been: Live a good life and try to help those close to you do the same with what you have. No gaurantees that it won't all turn to cow dung in the blink of an eye.
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Do you give God credit when good things happen too, or just point out His responsibility for bad things too?
It's not really a question "Christians" need to answer for you. It's one you have to figure out for yourself. It's the classic "how can there be good without evil" philisophical question.
MiniD
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Originally posted by banana
Ok, straight up. I'm an agnostic. My whole life, I've been trying to find some way to believe in God. But every time I read about another little girl who is kidnapped and killed like Carlie, I become even more convinced that God is a figment of our imagination. What kind of merciful God would have this as his plan for a little girl?
I'm listening, Christians. Was this God's plan for Carlie?
You are trying to reason this out with the baseline that this life is the only life ... there is the flaw
this life is hell, as good as it gets it is still hell as suffering is a NY minute away on any given day
those that believe, believe this little girl is in a place of peace and understanding we stuck here do not/cannot grasp with our finite minds.. and that in the end she will be together again with those that were dearest to her in this life. Do not weep/pray for the child - her suffering is over, weep/pray for those left behind whose suffering just kicked into overdrive this morning.
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Mini-D, since you're dancing around my original question, I'll try again.
Do you believe that it was God's plan to have Carlie die at age eleven at the hands of a brutal killer?
If not, then how can God be credited for someone who has lived to a ripe old age and did something wonderful, like discover the cure for Polio?
I smell double standard.
Yes, you are correct, I don't understand. And since I've already asked God this question this morning, and since I'm still awaiting an answer, I thought I'd ask the faithful to help me out in this.
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Originally posted by Eagler
You are trying to reason this out with the baseline that this life is the only life ... there is the flaw
this life is hell, as good as it gets it is still hell as suffering is a NY minute away on any given day
those that believe, believe this little girl is in a place of peace and understanding we stuck here do not/cannot grasp with our finite minds.. and that in the end she will be together again with those that were dearest to her in this life. Do not weep/pray for the child - her suffering is over, weep/pray for those left behind whose suffering just kicked into overdrive this morning.
Eagler, I admire you. I wish I had the blind faith to believe that rosy picture of the hereafter, but isn't it just a tad suspicious that the rosy picture of the heareafter is an easy thing to believe in, because it can't be "proved" with what we consider today to be scientific methods?
This is the whole crux of the issue for me. We are supposed to take on blind faith that there is an all-powerful God, who loves every one of us, who died for our sins, and has a plan for each of us.
Yet, God's plan for Carlie was to be brutally murdered, and who knows, maybe even raped before that happened.
What on earth could she ever have done to deserve that?
What kind of merciful God would allow that to happen?
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Originally posted by banana
.. (http://www.dicknite.com/213.gif)I become even more convinced that God is a figment of our imagination. What kind of merciful God would have this as his plan for a little girl? (http://www.dicknite.com/219.gif)
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More importantly, what is Florida's plan for the murderer if/when he is eventually caught and convicted?
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If you think my outrage over the brutal death of a little girl is a troll, I pity you.
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banana, I will just be honest with you. You have to find God yourself, you can not just look at a comp screen, on a message board, on the corner of the internet and expect people to find God for you. You have to look inside yourself and see him in al the good things and in all the bad things. Every thing has a reason, and once you find God you will find your awnser.
but until then don't look at us and say "ok prove it", because if you wanted to belive and see him for what he is then you would.
oh yea, I'm a devout Catholic if you want to know.
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Originally posted by Toad
More importantly, what is Florida's plan for the murderer if/when he is eventually caught and convicted?
I recommend a slow, cruel death. I'll be happy to volunteer to participate. That's what *my* plan would be.
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banana,
You say you are trying to understand but you aren't. You are childishly asserting that Man's flaws proove that there is no God. There may be no God, but murdering a child does not prove anything one way or the other.
Man has free will, so he is free to be evil. God did not plan for this girl to be murdered. We are not robots, we get to chose our own actions.
ra
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I do not believe that God has a specific plan for each one of us, I do however believe that he will meet us when our time to leave here is done. It is kind of like God creating everyone, and if there is aplan, why doesn't everyone believe and everything is honkey dorey? Well, it is because God gave us free choice when he made us. That means basically there will be strife and hardship on this earth, as Satan tries to tempt us all. Carlie's freedom was interupted by someone who chose to do so. Hopefully this person has not killed her, but if he has, then hopefully God will forgive them. One last thing to remember, the earth is but a temporary stop over where we prove (by our choices to believe or not, and act accordingy) to God that we are worthy of the glory that we will share in heaven. HArd to swallow for a non-believer, but taken as what will happen for me if I follow the word. Hope you work it out, the consequences of not are permanent. Will keep you in my prayers bananas that something happens to help you along the path.... sadly it took my brother's death to finally nudge me down it.
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banana, I think you are barking up the wrong tree in your search for God.
I'm familure with all the agnostic agonizing over evidence, proof, signs, etc., in which one seeks irrefuteble proof of the existance of God. It just isn't there.
For me, it all boils down to: Do you want to believe in God or don't you?
Personally, I do. I refuse to believe that our existance has no meaning. In my belief, we are very, very small, and God is very, very big in scope. We cannot understand God. Our suffering is temporary, and in the backdrop of eternity, unimportant.
Whether you consider this an act of will or an act of faith, thats what it comes down to: Do you or don't you want God?
If you do want God, you have an answer to your question: Of course this murder is in God's plan.
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God permits evil, he does not will it.
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banana
don't confuse Jesus/Christianity and eternal life - the Jesus way/story is but one way to find enlightenment. Take what's good from the Bible (usually found in the new Testament) and read up on the others - you'll see the common ground and the extremes
Raised catholic but have expanded my beliefs to include an eternal law of karma tagged up with reincarnation to cycle us through until we get it right..
proof is there but you have to look for it, it won't fall from the sky and hit u in the head
start by finding time in ur life to look within, settle your own thoughts/desires long enough to glimpse the spark of peace within you
as Bohdi points out, suffering is the tool of choice used to smack us into looking deeper than the tele/radio/computer for a meaningful purpose/understanding of life
we're all on a journey, many just don't realize it
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What does the Bible say about whether or not God has a specific plan for each of us?
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I certainly can't answer that, not much of a bible reader.
Anyway, I don't believe that God necessarily plans out your day for you. I think God is more of a generalist.
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banana,
Wow. This is a really good question. I'm not sure I'll be able to give you a good answer as written communication is not my best area.
Imagine an architect (sp?) designing a building. As the building is being built, one of the workers is shoved off by another. It was not the architect's plan for this to happen and this event does not keep the building from being completed. Like many, the architect mourns the loss, but the OVERALL plan for the building continues.
God is like the architect. He did not want Carlie to be killed or abused in any way. But unfortunately, evil does exist in this world and Carlie was the victim of it.
One of the issues here is that we have choices. God's wants people to follow Him because they choose to, not because he mandates it.
Carlie died because the murderer had a choice to do evil and did so, not because it was God's plan for this to happen to her.
I'm not sure if I have done a decent job of describing my beliefs here, but this is the best I can do. As I said, written communication is not my strong point.
Glove
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Eagler: those that believe, believe this little girl is in a place of peace and understanding we stuck here do not/cannot grasp with our finite minds..
A person is a sum of her mind structure and her memories. Let's assume that there is a way to have both structure and memories preserves when a person passed to the afterlife. Otherwise that would be a different person and the original one has trully ceased to exist.
So now we have that 11-year old up there with fresh memory of possibly terrible torture and death on her mind, he closest people taken away from her and all he plans for the next 70 years scrapped.
What do you think could be there that would make her happy?
Are her memories wiped out and replaced with brand-new artificial ones? Is her mind structure drastically modified so that she has completely different preferences and inclinations, corresponding to her new environment? Maybe hew IQ lowered to 50 and vocabulary shortened to 300 words so that she does not bother her little head with bad thoughts?
Or maybe she if given the combined mental power of Einstein, Newton, Aristotle, etc. as well as all their knowlege that she does not think what happened to her of any significance?
In any case that "happy" person would not be the same person who lived here, able to imagine how she ever though or felt. it would be like a bad recording. Like a book reader who's read someone's autobiography - able to know something of person's thoughs but never capable to think or feel that way.
miko
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You have to look inside yourself and see him in al the good things and in all the bad things.
The common denominator in all good/bad things, the acts of good and evil, that I see are humans.
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Originally posted by Gloves
banana,
Wow. This is a really good question. I'm not sure I'll be able to give you a good answer as written communication is not my best area.
Imagine an architect (sp?) designing a building. As the building is being built, one of the workers is shoved off by another. It was not the architect's plan for this to happen and this event does not keep the building from being completed. Like many, the architect mourns the loss, but the OVERALL plan for the building continues.
God is like the architect. He did not want Carlie to be killed or abused in any way. But unfortunately, evil does exist in this world and Carlie was the victim of it.
One of the issues here is that we have choices. God's wants people to follow Him because they choose to, not because he mandates it.
Carlie died because the murderer had a choice to do evil and did so, not because it was God's plan for this to happen to her.
I'm not sure if I have done a decent job of describing my beliefs here, but this is the best I can do. As I said, written communication is not my strong point.
Glove
Thank you, Gloves. That is about the most sensible explanation I've heard yet. On the hand, if what you say is true, God is really not all-powerful then, is he? He's more like a very nice uncle who wants us all to get along with each other and spread the goodwill around to others.
I actually agree with that philosophy on how to live day to day with my fellowe humans, and I fully wish everyone else would live that way, too.
Unfortunately, the pragmatist in me realizes that there are good guys, and bad guys in this world....and the bad guys are not going to play nice no matter how good the rest of us are.
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a Deity (and therefore its "plan")can be anything you want it to be........
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Originally posted by banana
What kind of merciful God would have this as his plan for a little girl?
OK, context is everything, so lets put this in context. I'll use myself as an example:
I have a son, David, who I love dearly as my own life. Let's say, the day comes and David gets his drivers license. So, I give him all the good safety tips and prepare him as best I can. However, ultimately, David will be on the road by himself at some point. Do I stop loving him while he is by himself on the road, no, but still, because I love him, have to let him excerise a certain amount of freedom. He, nor the rest of us, are puppets.
One day, David is driving down the interstate and he sees a set of headlights streaming toward him. Before he can react, some drunk in a car going 80 MPH smashes into my son headon and David is gone.
Now, did I not love him? Was he out of my thoughts for one moment? Of course not.
Just a reminder, this is hypothetical...my son is alive and well.
The fact is, bad things happen to good people. From a Christian perspective, the world is a fallen place and man is depraved by nature. Holding God accountable for the evil that men do would be the same as holding me accountable for the death of my son in the hypthetical scenario I gave above. No, I didn't put the drunk on the road, but I did put my son out there. A case could be made that I allowed the event to happen.
God gives us all free will and free action. If He did not allow all people the freedom, He would not be a just or loving God...He would be a tyrant. He did not intend for Carlee to be murdered. She was murdered because humanity is depraved by its nature and while capable of great acts of good also capable of great acts of evil.
For God to not allow anything bad to ever happen to anyone, he would have to be a puppet master. So, you have to ask: is a puppet master merciful or just a string puller.
Probably didn't help any, but I had to say something.
By the way: I was an agnostic for a great deal of my life. I know where you're comming from, banana.
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If horrendous evil weren't a problem for Christianity, Christians wouldn't have been discussing it for the last 2000 years. Look up "Theodicy" or "Horrendous Evil" and you'll find some interesting opinions.
One of the problems that a Christian has to resolve is the relationship between human goodness, divine goodness, and the world around us. What do you think good is?
If you accept:
God is the most perfect being
that leads to:
God is absolutely simple (divine simplicity)
Then, if you take:
God is good
You get from this that God and goodness are in themselves interchangeable. We can conceptually distinguish between God and His goodness, but that's not a distinction that really exists.
Now, throw in:
God is infinite (or any number of other statements we can make about God)
and you end up with:
God cannot be fully comprehended by the human intellect. For comprehension is to grasp the limits of something.
Which means,:
God's goodness is in itself incomprehensible
woops. Now you're getting close to agnosticism, or at the very least the negative theology of the Greek Fathers. After all, some will argue, "what good is a God that cannot be known"? and Christians hold on faith the God _wants_ us to know Him to the degree that we are capable. So, we get some strategies to deal with it:
A) The privative theory of evil alluded to by Apache. Everything, insofar as it is, is good. Evil is the absence of being. So humans do evil things because of their shortcomings. God creates all beings, therefore everything He creates is good; whatever He doesn't create is what we see as evil.
From A) you get an interesting issue: is this the best possible world God could have created? If not, then God's perfection is compromised. If so, then God's omnipotence is.
B) The conflicting demands of predestination, merit, and free will. God gave to all humans free choice. We've also got these texts that prescribe certain moral and ethical behaviour, and the implication that salvation will be extended to believers. Yet God's omniscience means He knows how all will end up. And God's omnipotence means that He can do whatever He wants, and we cannot force Him to do anything. So, can Golly-geen Peter and save that child murderer?
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banana
Go Rent Bruce Almighty.
Pay close attention.
Its all about free will & man's choices banana, not gods choices.
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Originally posted by banana
On the hand, if what you say is true, God is really not all-powerful then, is he? He's more like a very nice uncle who wants us all to get along with each other and spread the goodwill around to others.
banana,
I see your point here. However, it's my belief that just because God doesn't stop evil from happening doesn't mean He can't. I think we've all heard of miracles from time to time.
The tough part is where God does allow people to follow through on their choices when they are really bad. This animal made the choice to do something terrible and Carlie was the victim. However, if God had stopped that choice from happening, would it have really been a choice the murder could make? By giving us the right to make choices - good or bad - God has to let us follow through on them.
I really can't explain why things like this are allowed to happen, but plan to ask God about it when we eventually come face to face. For me, the good news is that Carlie is now with God in a better place where she can no longer be harmed by scumbags like this.
Glove
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If you're going to question Christians as to how God can allow such evil you have to look at it from the Christian perspective to understand the answer.
Life is eternal. Suffering and death are brief transitions after which God wipes away all tears. If you don't believe this then you cannot understand how a Christian can trust a god that allows such evil in the world.
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Ok, from what I've been told...
God allows free will, and if you choose to do the wrong thing, then he can't stop you.
Hehe yes he will have his time with you when you die, but God can't stop all of Evil entering this world.
Think about it, a Utopia would crumbe and fall...
If God didn't let an ounce of evil into this world now and then...
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Personally speaking... I think that guy deserves to be tortured before he dies. I hope they let the father do it.
I think somewhere this country went wrong when they decided that someone who rapes and kills someone else deserves anything at all, other than to be a conduit for the victims family to express their rage.
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bad dreams like this roll in like a cold front
thunderous thunder and lightning in tow
and your tiny little life gets even smaller
as you heed the heavens' mighty show
i don't mean heaven like godlike
cuz the animal i am knows very well
that nature is our teacher and our mother
and god is just another
story that we tell
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Glove give yourself more credit, that was a very communicative response.
IKON
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Rip it's suppose to be Hook line and Sinker.. :rolleyes:
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well not all religions have personal gods. or even gods at all in the all powerfull omnipotent christian cense.
some people need a presence in their life so bad the invent invisible friends. what better than an all powerfull omnipotent invisible friend. if the christian god is all thos things. his plan had to include that girls horrible death, saying he cant stop it is a cop out by definition he/she/neuter can do anything. at the very least the christian god is not benevolent.
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
well not all religions have personal gods. or even gods at all in the all powerfull omnipotent christian cense.
some people need a presence in their life so bad the invent invisible friends. what better than an all powerfull omnipotent invisible friend. if the christian god is all thos things. his plan had to include that girls horrible death, saying he cant stop it is a cop out by definition he/she/neuter can do anything. at the very least the christian god is not benevolent.
A good example of why leftists long for utopian government.
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Take the metaphysical point of view.
We are all part of one eternal spirit and choose to be different manifestations in the physical world.... and we do so repeatly.. there is only death of the body... not of the spirit... and there is no judgement - nothing is good or evil.
We are all creators of this existence and therefor we choose our lives... each and every time.
She chose to be a victim... he chose to be a murderer. Like actors in a play.
It's give a little more comfort than thinking one's been victimized, a failure, and when we die...however long we may live... that was our only chance in all of eternaty of getting it right - that's a pretty heavy burden...
Imagine if your parents when you were 10 years old said to you "you have 1 seconds to decide and completely believe with all your will that Marshmellows are divine Beings."
1 second later, after you say they must be nuts, they stab you with a knife severing your spinal cord, and you live the next 70 years of your life as a quadrapledgic, bitter, and miserable, and reliving that moment when you had 1 second to make the right decision... and all that you had to draw from to maket hat decision was what you knew about the world at age ten.
Mean while others who believe in Divine Marshmellow Beings walk around and live happy lives... and it turns out this is life - and all that there is too it.
Absurd... absolutely... so is Judeo-Christianity and the belief that people exist merely to serve and praise an egotistical god and bath in his glory, or else they go to hell for all eternity.
Christianity tells you - You have just a moment in time to choose to believe in the absurd and then you live for the rest of eternity with that decision.
When in fact we must live for the rest of eternity with every decision we make... because every moment is a new decision... and in every moment is a new creation.... it's neither good nor bad.
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Why didn't God just destroy Satan and his fellow angels instead of throwing them out to run here on the Earth? They are just angels, not created in God's image, but here to serve both God and (eventually) man.
Its like a gv assault on a base, you (God) see an enemy panzer (the devil) taking aim at knocking out a squaddie (man) and instead of just taking out the enemy panzer (the devil) you fire a smoke shell (Jesus) and instruct your squaddie (man) to drive into the smoke and be safe (salvation) until you can take out the enemy panzer (final judgement). Why not just take out the friggen enemy panzer from the get-go?
I was raised Baptist and educated (10 years) in a Baptist private school. I am a "Christian" in that I believe that Jesus died for my sins and that I am putting my faith in Him to cleanse my soul of sin so that I will one day be with Him in heaven. I was always told that we should have a child-like faith in God and the Word, but now that I am older and don't attend church regularly I find myself questioning these things constantly and that is very unnerving to wonder what will be my lot in eternity if I am wrong.
Faith is a very blurry thing.
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Like you banana, I've been agnostic my entire life. Wasn't until just recently that I've come to believe that some kind of higher power exists. What powers it has to control the forces of 'good' and 'evil' I haven't the slightest idea of.
But I do have a suggestion for this:
"My whole life, I've been trying to find some way to believe in God.
Just pretend. No amount of intellectualizing it is going to provide you with an answer. You don't need to actually believe right now. Just pretend for a while.
Do it for, say, one week. Say a quick little 20 second prayer in the morning asking for the kind of day you'd like to have, and then one at night thanking him for the good that happened that day. Try to be aware of how god is showing itself to you. Try and be aware of when god is speaking to you. Not much to it. If after a week of this you still don't see things any differently... well, you aren't out any money or aything. I think it's worth a sincere try.
Like Tilt said, your "god" can be whatever you want it to be. Don't get all caught up in religion or trying to believe in one of the predefined notions of what god is, if that doesn't suit ya. Define it for yourself in that case.
I've found that god started to show itself to me after I came to have some sort of faith (however slight at first), not before. The payoff is profound.
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Clement Atlee Prime Minister 1946 to>>
an agnostic......was asked if he thought a God would have been on our side during the war
he replied "I dont know".............
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I am a firm believer in God .
And I think that old charlie Is going striaght to Hell.
I do take comfort in that beliefe .
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Originally posted by mrblack
I am a firm believer in God .
And I think that old charlie Is going striaght to Hell.
I do take comfort in that beliefe .
Who's charlie?
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Nakhui, don't know what you been smokin' bud but ya oughta lay off.
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Are we the lucky ones saved for another day
Or they the lucky ones who are taken away
Is it a hand on your shoulder from the Lord above
Or the Devil himself come to give you a shove.
from FATES WARNING by IRON MAIDEN
Or is it none of the above?
Maybe it is just man being man with no Gods involved.
Or maybe an omnipotent God does exist?
Then he knew what would happen to the little girl. Which means that our FreeWill is all smoke and mirrors since our fate was decided at our birth.
Therefore we are puppets and God is the Master of Puppets.
Either way you can't do a thing about it, so why bother?
I see so many people make fun of people in sects.
Some of them don't even realise that what those people believe in is no less unproven then their own beliefs.
I find that quite Ironic.
ATHEISM as many advantages:
No need to go to CHURCH to have a guy BORE you about what you should do even though he as no right to judge you.
No need to worry about acting in accordance to your god.
And many others...
So don't hesitate to call now to join the ATHEISTS for only 29.95$
We will send you our Holy Book.
You will also receive an ATHEIST T-Shirt free of charge.
So get your credit card out and CALL US NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
Man, I wish I could make money like RAEL. :D
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Originally posted by banana
Ok, straight up. I'm an agnostic. My whole life, I've been trying to find some way to believe in God. But every time I read about another little girl who is kidnapped and killed like Carlie, I become even more convinced that God is a figment of our imagination. What kind of merciful God would have this as his plan for a little girl?
I'm listening, Christians. Was this God's plan for Carlie?
If I felt you were sincere.....
In this world is both good and evil....Satan was cast down to this earth....life is a battle of spirit and flesh.
God loves us all, however, his judgement will come. The Bible states that it rains on the just and the unjust....this fair and peaceful world you long for will not take place ever until God restores it himself....it's coming.
It's going to get alot worse than what we see currently....consider this from Revelations.
Revelation 9
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
This life of ours is described by God as merely a vapor...it appears and is gone just as quickly....I'de be happy to talk with you anytime, however, God will call you at sometime in your life...he calls for all of his creation...his spirit is in all of us.
All you will have to do is respond...either believe or ignore him...it will be your choice, just like it was mine.
Nothing is free in this life and neither was the blood of his Son....might be in your best interest to listen to no one on a stupid game board and read the Gospels in the New Testament.
Wish ya the best!
:)
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I think Cod does have a plan, if you knew what it was, it wouldnt be much of a plan. What if you were evil and decided to obstruct his plan? What if you were an over achiever do gooder and messed it up? I bet you Cod is Jewish though.
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banana, Good question, so good that I can't resist throwing in my thoughts. I agree that gloves' response has been the best so far.
Gloves helped you realize that, in your words, "God is really not all powerful".
And here's a really scary idea: maybe the plan is that there is no plan, except the one we choose to make. Deists believed that God made the world, then stepped back a left it to its own devices. I think you're making a mistake trying to look at this from a narrow Christian point of view.
I believe that we are free to become and do anything in this existence. That doesn't mean we should, just that we can. The Creator doesn't interfere. There are no miracles. Do people make "miraculous" recoveries and escapes from certain death? Yes, but not because a higher power intervened.
Taoist teaching says that for there to be good there must also be evil. They are created simultaneously, like light and shadow. For anything to exist, it's opposite must also exist.
If there is a Creator, why did it create this world? To create new, genuine souls/spirits? (That would be us, and any other advanced life out there.) I certainly feel that I am free to chose, at each moment of my life, how I will react to it and deal with other souls. This is a chance to become something....anything.
I have no religion, and believe that all religions are made by humans (mostly men), and usually from an age even less enlightened than our own. Nevertheless, following Taoist teachings, I believe it is important to admire the wise of all religions. So perhaps the Hindus are right when they suggest that we are reborn as higher and higher forms of life until we no longer have to come back and suffer existence. Or, if we make really bad choices we return as lower life forms, doomed to suffer many more lives & rebirths. Jesus said it was possible for a sinner to repent, change his ways, and still move onward spiritually. Who knows for sure. Not I.
For me, it is very hard to forgive a God or Creator who would create a world where such atrocities take place. My only answer is that there must be free will to allow us to become something unique. In any other kind of world, we spirits would be no different from the artificial intelligence in sims.
Perhaps existence is a means to produce companionship for a lonely God, and joy for those spirits that can co-exist in peace and love. Do the pain and suffering of existence justify that purpose? When I feel the answer is "yes", I guess that's what many people would call "having faith".
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Agnostics are atheist who are hedging their bets.
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God or no God this arse wart needs to die so her NEVER gets out and does it again.
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Originally posted by banana
Mini-D, since you're dancing around my original question, I'll try again.
Do you believe that it was God's plan to have Carlie die at age eleven at the hands of a brutal killer?
How would I know? I don't presume to know the mind of God.
Besides, that's not really the question. The fundamental question is "How can God allow bad things to happen". Once again, that's simply philisophical. Even more philisophical would be "Is God in control of everything or do we have choices".
I'm not dancing around a question banana. There isn't an answer... there's only beliefs.
MiniD
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those that believe, believe this little girl is in a place of peace and understanding we stuck here do not/cannot grasp with our finite minds.. and that in the end she will be together again with those that were dearest to her in this life. Do not weep/pray for the child - her suffering is over, weep/pray for those left behind whose suffering just kicked into overdrive this morning.
====
I wish I could think like this. I want to dearly. For her sake I am going to try aweful hard to give myself up and let go of my narrow belief system. As it is I am constantly trying to find a reason that makes the suffering and pain in life worth it.
Something about this tragedy has hit me very hard.
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In order for there to be good, there must be evil. Don't think that there wasn't any evil in the man who did this to Carlie, in fact, I'm certain you know there is.
Ever since there was war in heaven and the Angel Gabriel tossed Lucifer into fire, there has been a struggle between good and evil. This struggle virtually defines our existance. Sometimes evil wins, particularly here on earth, as in this case.
The end result will however be nothing short of total victory for the good guys.
banana, I admire you, in asking the questions you do. I was very much in your camp until I started doing research and studying what people refer to as "faith". I found out things about not just myself but also about the world around me that at times shocked me, terrified me, and ultimately inspired me.
You seem like a real smart guy based on what you usually write, even though our opinion differs, and I know how simple it is to write God off based on current world events and logic, but deep down I'm sure you know much of what's happening around us and what has happened to you in your life isn't truly explainable. Grab some books written about the bible or faith in general and read through them and see if they affect your opinion at all. They well may not, but in my case, the took my whole world apart.
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If you need to seach for a meaning or a higher power, have at it. If not, why worry about it. If there is something after this life, then we'll each find out about it when we die. If not, I doubt any of us will care...since we'll simply be worm food.
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Originally posted by Mini D
How would I know? I don't presume to know the mind of God.
Besides, that's not really the question. The fundamental question is "How can God allow bad things to happen". Once again, that's simply philisophical. Even more philisophical would be "Is God in control of everything or do we have choices".
I'm not dancing around a question banana. There isn't an answer... there's only beliefs.
MiniD
Very well said Mini D
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His probation officer tried to have his probation revoked and jailed Dec 30th. Judge refused to revoke it.
Go figure.
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Originally posted by 2Slow
His probation officer tried to have his probation revoked and jailed Dec 30th. Judge refused to revoke it.
Go figure.
The judge should be removed from the bench for being an IDIOT.
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Originally posted by 2Slow
Agnostics are atheist who are hedging their bets.
A good soundbite, but not entirely accurate.
An Atheist believes in the non existance of God.
This belief system is as much a leap of faith as belief in Him.
You can not get to Atheism or faith in God logically.
Agnostisism is non belief and is faithless. It is based on the thought that lack of evidence proves nothing.
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banana,
You know me, you know my stance. Like others here, I can only speculate and express my beliefs/faith:
I can't really answer your question banana, as I cannot presume upon God as I believe He is GOD. What I can ask is, due to this event, this evil action, has it caused yourself or someone else in this world to look for God? to search for answers? Could that not be in His plan?
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Eagler expressed it best and I have a "tendancy" to argree based upon my upbringing:
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those that believe, believe this little girl is in a place of peace and understanding we stuck here do not/cannot grasp with our finite minds.. and that in the end she will be together again with those that were dearest to her in this life. Do not weep/pray for the child - her suffering is over, weep/pray for those left behind whose suffering just kicked into overdrive this morning.
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banana,
Your initial post indicates that you are confused by tragic events. Some people here have attempted lengthy explanations.
I can be quite brief in my own explanation. Once you accept that there is no God, everything else makes sense.
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Hi banana.
If you believe in heaven, then dying is the best thing that can happen to a person. Yet those who believe in heaven regard murder as the worst thing that one can do to another. Curiously those that profess to believe in heaven fear death as much as the rest of us, and feel as much pain when mourning their loved ones as the rest of us do. Of course I'm not telling you anything that you haven't allready realized yourself.
A philosopher once surmised, I think Plato, that either way you slice it, death is not so bad. He said that beyond death is either another life, or eternal sleep in oblivion, either way it's not a bad thing. And that's pretty much how I feel about it.
As for whether or not our lives and deaths are predetermined and planned by a divine magic. Well I think you allready know the answer to that deep down.
Now what I've said here may garner some negative feed back from some. But since it's you, and I'm pretty sure you're on the level. I figured I'd shoot ya straight.
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Originally posted by Suave
If you believe in heaven, then dying is the best thing that can happen to a person.
Suave - not mocking your beliefs or anything like that, but thanks for that! Funniest thing I have read this year! :lol
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You can not get to Atheism or faith in God logically.
That is completly false.
I became an atheist because I realised that all those things in the Bible could be explained some other way through logic.
If the Big Bang created life then no God is needed.
Jesus might not have died on the cross since it took a long time.
Someone could have nursed him back to health.
When he came back he would still have holes in is hands.
An Atheist believes in the non existance of God.
That is not true.
I simply do not believe in the existence of unproven gods.
Which happens to include all of them.
I am not a sheep you can lead with a carrot.
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I simply do not believe in the existence of unproven gods.
athe·ism
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
1 archaic : UNGODLINESS, WICKEDNESS
2 the doctrine that there is no deity
ag·nos·tic
Etymology: Greek agnOstos unknown, unknowable,
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
According to these definitions and your explanation you are agnostic, not atheist.
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Holden McGroin,
I think I misunderstood your first post.
Non existence of a god is weird concept to me, sorry.
Your post seem to imply that I "believed" in the non existence of god like it was a religious thing.
But that belief is not religious, it is simply logic.
Since their is no proof that god does exist, he must not.
Then I guess I believe in the non existence of god.
I guess that makes me :confused:
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Because no evidence exists to prove something, all it logically proves is that there is no evidence. The leap to the conclusion that something does not exist is illogical and therefore is a faith.
There is no evidence of extra-terrestrial life, and yet I have confidence that in the vastness of the universe life exists elsewhere. Because I have no evidence supporting my contention does not prove that ET life does not exist.
Atheism does have a modicum of faith associated with it; the faith (not logic) that a deity does not exist.
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Originally posted by beet1e
banana,
Your initial post indicates that you are confused by tragic events. Some people here have attempted lengthy explanations.
I can be quite brief in my own explanation. Once you accept that there is no God, everything else makes sense.
I'd qualify it some: Once you accept there is no god and that humans are all just apes, the world is much less confusing place and the news makes a lot more sense.
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Do you believe that it was God's plan to have Carlie die at age eleven at the hands of a brutal killer?
No. God's plan is for each and every one of us to spend our lives growing to know and love Him. Unfortunately we have free choice, and many choose to turn away. Those that turn away choose to do evil, it isn't God sending them out to be or do evil.
God doesn't promise us any set number of days on earth. Many of us face debilitating disease, horrible accidents, war, any number of tragic events. What God does promise is eternal life, and the believer understands that whatever duress we face here on earth, it's temporary. It's a matter of seeing the big picture.
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Originally posted by banana
Ok, straight up. I'm an agnostic. My whole life, I've been trying to find some way to believe in God. But every time I read about another little girl who is kidnapped and killed like Carlie, I become even more convinced that God is a figment of our imagination. What kind of merciful God would have this as his plan for a little girl?
I'm listening, Christians. Was this God's plan for Carlie?
If you're insinuating that God is an accomplice to the crime unless he doesn't exist, I'd have to say I think that's certainly stretching it for an excuse not to believe in a higher power.
If you're saying that the existance of evil in the world is unimpeachable evidence that God (at least a God who is loving and compassionate ... incapable of evil acts) cannot exist, I think that, too, is stretching to rationalize.
A world without evil is a world where choosing right over wrong has no meaning. And yes ... evil things can and will happen to innocent victims. If it didn't then the world would automatically be "just." Does this mean God wanted Carlie to suffer what happened to her? Not in the least. Does it mean he wanted the person or persons responsible to do what they did? That neither.
If one believes in a God that's omniscient and all powerful .. capable of preventing everything bad that happens to us ... does that make it "good" or "right" for him to do that? Even for the sake of the Carlies of the world ... not to mention the millions starving or suffering the horrors of war or being ravaged by diseases, should God snap his fingers and stop it all thereby once and for all proving without a doubt not only his existance but his goodness through his ability to protect all of his children from harming one another (or even suffering from nature)?
What's the point in even having a mortal existance, in that case (from an eternal/spiritual pov)? That being said, I don't see our ignorance of why bad things happen to innocent victims as cause for disbelief in a God that is inherently good, compassionate and loving.
Granted, I've been fortunate enough not to suffer what Carlie's parents are going though. I hope and pray I never have to. Maybe having it happen to me would make me shake my fist at God and cry out ... maybe it would cause me to doubt. Maybe it would lead to resentment. Maybe I'd just end up believing there is no God because if he loved me he wouldn't have let this happen to me (or those close to me). And again maybe that's why it happens. Maybe it's not God's fault at all. Maybe we have to reach back. Maybe he's always there to help but we aren't listening. We're too caught up in the world. Maybe he's crying too.
But so far I've been blessed not to have such a horrible thing happen to me or anyone close to me .... thank God.
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Originally posted by banana
Ok, straight up. I'm an agnostic. My whole life, I've been trying to find some way to believe in God. But every time I read about another little girl who is kidnapped and killed like Carlie, I become even more convinced that God is a figment of our imagination. What kind of merciful God would have this as his plan for a little girl?
I'm listening, Christians. Was this God's plan for Carlie?
no it wasnt gods plan for carlie...god layed out the "groundwork" for her life and went on to other peoples...then evil came along and destroyed everything that god and carlie built...
gods plan often gets interuppted by satans
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Originally posted by Kieran
No. God's plan is for each and every one of us to spend our lives growing to know and love Him. Unfortunately we have free choice, and many choose to turn away. Those that turn away choose to do evil, it isn't God sending them out to be or do evil.
Maybe I read this wrong...turning away from god by not knowing and loving him equates to choosing to do evil? Or by choosing to do evil, you're turning your back on God?
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Originally posted by SOB
Maybe I read this wrong...turning away from god by not knowing and loving him equates to choosing to do evil? Or by choosing to do evil, you're turning your back on God?
*Ding*
"What is 'yes', Alex?" :)
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I knew that wasn't clear when I said it... sorry.
When we choose to turn away from God, we open ourselves up to evil. Our nature is to be evil. We can't fight what we are alone, we need God's help to do that.
That isn't to say choosing God prevents sin- it doesn't- but it does lessen the likelihood to revert to our basest instincts and nature. The idea is someone who is truly walking closely with God would not commit such an act.
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fact remains your got is either not all powerfull or chose to allowed that little girl to be raped to death. her personal god who is always with her allowed her death in this maner.
blaming it on satan, who was created by god anyway makes no sense at all. even if you are a true believer this must occur to you for cryin out loud.
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If you wanna use this tragedy to support your lack of belief in God, then hey ... who am I to stop ya? Seems you have unrealistic expectations if your criteria for proof that God exists is Heaven on Earth, though. That is, if it really was criteria for such. In this case it appears the Christians are actually a bit more realistic.
People suffer and die, innocent and guilty alike. Christians take solace that there is a better afterlife and that all things happen for a reason (even if that reason is not readily apparent). One may argue that this is unrealistic (as often is the case) but how is the preference to adhere to the belief that nothing has purpose and all that awaits us at death is decomposition a healthy state of mind? Of course, I've heard the same argument in reverse but it still doesn't make sense to me.
Well ... such is life.
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We've heard quite a bit from Christians. It would have been interesting to have heard from Jews.
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Originally posted by beet1e
We've heard quite a bit from Christians. It would have been interesting to have heard from Jews.
Chances are a devout Jew would also stand against reasoning that because there is evil in the world and innocents suffer from it there must be no God. Of course, since I'm not Jewish, it's supposition on my part but I'm fairly confident, especially given Hebrew history, that that would be the case. Perhaps one will find this thread and respond.
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banana,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be saying that, if God exists, and he did nothing to stop Carlie's murder, then he shares some of the guilt for her death.
Well then, WE exist...and WE did nothing to stop the murder. Are we to assume a share of the guilt for her death?
To take another tack, let me point out that we live in a natural world and are subject to natural laws. We live and die. We kill and are killed. This is the way it has always been. Why should God change it? If he attempted to control all of our baser actions people like you would resent him for being an interfering busy-body.
I am convinced that God's main concern is man's spiritual development. Evil exists because many people have looked upon the Ten Commandments as the Ten Suggestions. What part of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" do we not understand? He has given us all of the guidelines we need to bring evil under control. I firmly believe that, whether an actual Hell exists or not, we will all be held accountable for the evil that we do.
As for the doubts that many have about whether or not God exists, I can only offer my own hypothesis, whic I have no way of proving.
Some years back, advances in the sciences of astronomy and physics had indicated that the universe created by the big bang was an open universe, meaning that it would go on endlessly expanding, until even atoms would be unable to remain cohesive, ultimately flying apart, leading to entropy and the universe winking out of existence. According to the theories of the time, our universe was an accident that would not be repeated. This gloomy end to the cosmos suggested to some that there could be no all-powerful God.
Our knowledge has continued to grow, however, and our theories to evolve. Allen Guth's "inflationary theory" of the universe, and variations thereof, as well as newer theoretical models of the creation of the universe, seem to suggest that the big bang is not a singular event. Guth's theories are almost "universally" accepted these days. He has stated that the universe sprang into existence from such a tiny point (one billionth the size of an electron) that it was conceivable that the event could have been artificial, that is "created."
A more recent theory of universal creation is contained in the last issue of Discover magazine. This theory postulates that the big bang endlessly repeats itself because of the existence of a "shadow universe" that collides with our own, over and over again, creating a new universe each time it does so.
This opens up some interesting possibilities. If the universe is constantly recreating itself, that means that time has no end. The life of our universe can then be described as a single drop of water in an endless ocean. Thus we come to my hypothesis:
1. Life constantly builds and evolves UPWARD.
2. Given enough time all things that are possibly, even if only remotely, become probable.
3. With the passage of enough time, all things that are probable, become iron-clad certainties.
4. If life constantly builds upward, eventually it may evolve beyond death and evil.
5. Ergo, I believe God is the ultimate expression of life. Through his vast experience with the nature of mortal creatures, he has come to the conclusion that it is best to interfere as little as possible in our affairs.
As I said, I can't prove any of this. However, it makes as much sense as some of the stuff I have heard on these boards.
Interested in hearing your thoughts.
Regards, Shuckins
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Originally posted by beet1e
We've heard quite a bit from Christians. It would have been interesting to have heard from Jews.
A reference that binds jews to later christians from the bible before Christ, old testiment. Its a marking point of sorts within biblical history. The implication is there are a nuther group of peoples other than the believers. Its implication seems to have been suggested prior. Thats how I read it.
Romans 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."[1] 4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7“Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."[2] 9Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12And he is also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring--not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations."[3] He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were. 18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be."[4] 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead--since he was about a hundred years old--and that Sarah's womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness." 23The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
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To answer the question, I'll use an analogy.
Playing SimCity, I build up a nice piece of land and set it up with great looking rivers, lakes, mountains, forests, and land to build up great cities. The city will grow and grow, I'll make tons of money and my people are really happy and content with their digital lives.
Then one day, I might just decide "hey, I think a pilot's been drinking on the job." and let one fall out of the sky into the city, or the fault line seems to have a lot of pent up energy - I think it needs to be released, or the conditions are ripe for a tornado, or the air has been too dry and a forest fire just happens to spring up.
I'm not religious though, and I've yet to see an example of a loving God - if there is one at all. If there is one, it left us to our own devices so we can slowly destroy ourselves if the natural disasters don't do it by themself.
12 year old girl getting abducted and killed, 5 month old baby in a dumpster and dies, drive by shooting taking out bystanders, full scale war, etc... this **** happens because humans are allowed to act on their own impulses.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
12 year old girl getting abducted and killed, 5 month old baby in a dumpster and dies, drive by shooting taking out bystanders, full scale war, etc... this **** happens because humans are allowed to act on their own impulses.
-SW
exactly - ppl are more worried about their own wants and desires (which many are perverse at on level or another) than about each other - they have turned away from "God" i.e. the concept of Universal Love for each other...
we are selfish beyond words and will continue to suffer as long as a ppl, we are
Peace is there - one has to choose between searching for/wanting it or running to the next "this will make happy" material item/experience
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Originally posted by beet1e
banana,
Your initial post indicates that you are confused by tragic events. Some people here have attempted lengthy explanations.
I can be quite brief in my own explanation. Once you accept that there is no God, everything else makes sense.
Very sad....now I understand you Beetle.
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Originally posted by SOB
Maybe I read this wrong...turning away from god by not knowing and loving him equates to choosing to do evil? Or by choosing to do evil, you're turning your back on God?
Our nature is evil SOB....some act without self control...others act in other ways without the same self control...violent or non violent, it's the same beast.
Denying his Son is the back turning.
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
fact remains your got is either not all powerfull or chose to allowed that little girl to be raped to death. her personal god who is always with her allowed her death in this maner.
blaming it on satan, who was created by god anyway makes no sense at all. even if you are a true believer this must occur to you for cryin out loud.
This world is evil...Satan has dominion over it....even you who denies God must acknowledge the decline of love and real compassion on this earth?
God's work for us is done...his Son dies so that we all might have life.
Listening to peoples opinions is not good....I once had real fellowship with God when there was only Otto and God....religion is poison and should be seen as such.
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Originally posted by Kieran
No. God's plan is for each and every one of us to spend our lives growing to know and love Him.
In other words, god calls those whom are ready. Maybe Carlie was ready.
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why do people blame god when bad things happen ? we should blame the guy who killed that poor little girl,,wasnt no plan for god to kill her,,it was one messed up guy with free will like us all,,who didnt lisin to his morals
r.i.p carlie,,,its horrible some guy with no care for life had to do this too you,,atleast there was a camera there to see what happend to her,,or we mite of never caught the guy who did this in the first place,,and he may have went on to kill many more:(<~~im happy he was caught,,but im not happy she died
but if it wasnt for that securty camera,,we proubly would of never heard what happend to carlie,,it would of never made the world news,,and none of you would even know who carlie was...there is a little girl in my town been mission for over a year,,she was 6 years old,,i bet none of you have heard her tragic story,,,she never came back from the play ground she was playing at,,but sence it wasnt on camera it never made world wide news,,,hardly made the washington state local news,,,but atleast we can thx some one for that footage, atleast one killer was caught,,bad things happen even to the most faithfull and innocent
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Originally posted by Rude
Very sad....now I understand you Beetle.
That fact that you believe mankind evil by nature and a world without supernatural sad and dismal is as revealing about you as your condescencion of those who don't share your Weltbild.
The world is a Rorschach test.
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That fact that you believe mankind evil by nature and a world without supernatural sad and dismal is as revealing about you as your condescencion of those who don't share your Weltbild.
The world is a Rorschach test.
What evidence can you provide to show man is not evil by nature?
Anyway, when it comes to condescending attitudes, it's hard to beat anti-religious viewpoints.
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Originally posted by Rude
Our nature is evil SOB....some act without self control...others act in other ways without the same self control...violent or non violent, it's the same beast.
I don't need Jebus or a fear of what might happen to me after I die to know how to act. If you do, I've got no problem with that, and I wish you happiness. If you think I'm going to hell for not being a Christian, then I think you're a small individual and you worship a small god.
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Originally posted by Kieran
What evidence can you provide to show man is not evil by nature?
Don't you think man has just as much potential for good as for evil?
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Because no evidence exists to prove something, all it logically proves is that there is no evidence. The leap to the conclusion that something does not exist is illogical and therefore is a faith.
There is no evidence of extra-terrestrial life, and yet I have confidence that in the vastness of the universe life exists elsewhere. Because I have no evidence supporting my contention does not prove that ET life does not exist.
Atheism does have a modicum of faith associated with it; the faith (not logic) that a deity does not exist.
I disagree. Atheism from my point of view IS logic.
The Christian teachings and arguments for the existance of god are full of illogical arguments. The most fundamental always breaks down to "who created god?". If god was created then that leads to conclusion that there is yet a higher being, and god is in fact not the ultimate deity. Another angle, for god to exist does this require the existance of the universe? What existed first? The deity or the universe?
Going past the theological stuff theres the factual stuff. The age of the universe, the earth, the planets, lifeforms. All proven by various scientific methods. Yet these facts clearly disagree with statements of creation in the bible. So do we believe in deity based on the teachings on a book with such dubious statements? Then theres the old fallback when what you say doesn't make sense... faith.
I often get the doorknockers asking about my beliefs. Yet all I see is words, not real faith, not real belief. There was a really good quote from one of the Dune books about religion and its reliance on words, I must dig it up. But essentially, take away words and what is Christianity - real religion, real faith should be able to exist without words - can Christianity do this?
And who is really right? The Christians? The Muslims? The Budhists? The Hindus?
Arguments like the earth not being flat, or the earth orbiting the sun were also hard to prove at the time, yet eventually they were nailed down.
God has 'its' function, political, psychological, social - for some of us (but not me).
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AKIron........this answer you gave seems just about perfect....
If you're going to question Christians as to how God can allow such evil you have to look at it from the Christian perspective to understand the answer.
banana.........
Why is there Cancer....
Why are there wars...
Why is there starvation....
Why is there poverty...
Why is there Murder...
Why is there evil.....
Got about a 1000 more to ask when I get to heaven...But for now..By so called "Blind Faith" I choose to believe that God has things under control. We , meaning Christians , sometimes ask God why. I've asked that question when it comes to an extremely close family member dieing of cancer. That person has lived a Very good life in which God has seen her thru much. Now she is dieing from that. Why.....Only God knows that answer. Choices are ours..We make them daily in everything we do.
As was said earlier..Dont judge God or think that he (if you momentarily think there is a god) made Carlie die...God has things under control.
Cheesy answer...Prolly....But Im no minister or Bible Expert...Just a Blind Faith Christian
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I could ask God why did you give me Prostate cancer.
But you know what It aint his fault .
I think it was just in the cards.
1in6 men get it and I just happend to be standing in the wrong line.
So do I blame God LOL Hell no I dont.
I choose to thank him for the many things I have got to see in my 46 years .
I have known the love of 2 fine women.
I have had over 50 motorcycles and rode my arse off on all of them.
My life is full and I will live it that way no matter how long or short my days may be.
God gives us all choices and gentlemen I cant tell you Strong enought to get you prostate exams done.
DO IT and do it soon.
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Originally posted by SOB
Don't you think man has just as much potential for good as for evil?
Man has wonderful potential to do good. Sadly, more often than not man tends to do the selfish thing, and that degree of selfishness largely determines the level of harm that person is willing to heap upon others. Take the extreme in a true sociopath; this is an example of someone that wants what he wants, when he wants it, and woe to anyone in his path. In a sense, we are all mini-sociopaths. Some have a stronger resolve to deny those tendencies than others.
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Originally posted by Kieran
I knew that wasn't clear when I said it... sorry.
When we choose to turn away from God, we open ourselves up to evil. Our nature is to be evil. We can't fight what we are alone, we need God's help to do that.
That isn't to say choosing God prevents sin- it doesn't- but it does lessen the likelihood to revert to our basest instincts and nature. The idea is someone who is truly walking closely with God would not commit such an act.
Bull****....Jim Jones was a follower and close to your GOD
you basically forgot all them WARS religion started....all in the name of some GOD you choose to believe...
having a brain is sometimes dangerous....
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Originally posted by SLO
Bull****....Jim Jones was a follower and close to your GOD
you basically forgot all them WARS religion started....all in the name of some GOD you choose to believe...
having a brain is sometimes dangerous....
There you go... perfect example of condescending attitude toward religion. What makes you think Jim Jones was close to God? Because he said he was? Lotsa scripture to describe how to spot someone walking with God, and Jim Jones didn't fit that bill. Neither would people starting wars of conquest for personal gain. Your grasp of what is religious is superficial, I'm afraid.
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Originally posted by Kieran
There you go... perfect example of condescending attitude toward religion. What makes you think Jim Jones was close to God? Because he said he was? Lotsa scripture to describe how to spot someone walking with God, and Jim Jones didn't fit that bill. Neither would people starting wars of conquest for personal gain. Your grasp of what is religious is superficial, I'm afraid.
Superficial? Or true for the majority of religious followers? The cold hard truth is religion has been used as the reason for more bad deeds than good deeds. Strip away the top 10% of religious 'theologocial' thinkers from Christianity and what do you have left underneath?
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
In other words, god calls those whom are ready. Maybe Carlie was ready.
You know, if there is one thing that freaks me out its cementaries in Poland. There is a tradition to put little kids close to the enterance and put things like "Joined the choir of angels" on the tombstone. If you look carefully at dates some of them didn't live but a day or two.
Where they ready ? Prabably not even babtized yet.... born with original sin and never given a chance to "know and learn to love/chose to love, god ?"
Whole another thing is an absurdity of the "don't know god you're going to hell" thing. Kid is born in Tibet. Never had a chance to hear of a bible or learn of christianity. Dies at age of 2 by hand of a brutal murderer... poor bastard... stragitht to hell he goes..
Suave, good post.
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This thread wins the February "Religious Tolerance Award". :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by mrblack
I could ask God why did you give me Prostate cancer.
But you know what It aint his fault .
I think it was just in the cards.
1in6 men get it and I just happend to be standing in the wrong line.
So do I blame God LOL Hell no I dont.
I choose to thank him for the many things I have got to see in my 46 years .
I have known the love of 2 fine women.
I have had over 50 motorcycles and rode my arse off on all of them.
My life is full and I will live it that way no matter how long or short my days may be.
God gives us all choices and gentlemen I cant tell you Strong enought to get you prostate exams done.
DO IT and do it soon.
sorry to hear that
co-worker going through that now
best of luck sir
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Originally posted by Eagler
sorry to hear that
co-worker going through that now
best of luck sir
Thank you
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Originally posted by Suave
That fact that you believe mankind evil by nature and a world without supernatural sad and dismal is as revealing about you as your condescencion of those who don't share your Weltbild.
The world is a Rorschach test.
Are you saying you are holy and without sin?
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Originally posted by SOB
I don't need Jebus or a fear of what might happen to me after I die to know how to act. If you do, I've got no problem with that, and I wish you happiness. If you think I'm going to hell for not being a Christian, then I think you're a small individual and you worship a small god.
What I think and believe, is that God loves you whether you believe him and his word or not....everyone faces a time when a choice is made....maybe your's has come and gone, or perhaps you have yet to make it.
I wish you God's best in your life...that's how I really feel about it.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Superficial? Or true for the majority of religious followers? The cold hard truth is religion has been used as the reason for more bad deeds than good deeds. Strip away the top 10% of religious 'theologocial' thinkers from Christianity and what do you have left underneath?
I couldn't disagree more. There have been billions of people living on this planet. I bet you cannot name 100 people that have started wars in the name of religion, and even if you can, that is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people who've actually lived. The thing is, doing good doesn't make good press. Doing bad sure does.
The cliche "religion has started more wars than anything else" is false- greed has started more wars than anything else. Greed over land, power, you name it. Add racial bigotry to that list.
Still... a little girl gets raped and killed and God is at fault, and by association the religious. Or am I missing something?
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Originally posted by SLO
Bull****....Jim Jones was a follower and close to your GOD
you basically forgot all them WARS religion started....all in the name of some GOD you choose to believe...
having a brain is sometimes dangerous....
Slo....how did Jesus view religion?
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Originally posted by fd ski
You know, if there is one thing that freaks me out its cementaries in Poland. There is a tradition to put little kids close to the enterance and put things like "Joined the choir of angels" on the tombstone. If you look carefully at dates some of them didn't live but a day or two.
Where they ready ? Prabably not even babtized yet.... born with original sin and never given a chance to "know and learn to love/chose to love, god ?"
Whole another thing is an absurdity of the "don't know god you're going to hell" thing. Kid is born in Tibet. Never had a chance to hear of a bible or learn of christianity. Dies at age of 2 by hand of a brutal murderer... poor bastard... stragitht to hell he goes..
Suave, good post.
That has always puzzled me too, but I think that young children are spared the decision and assumed to be "pure". Or maybe not, who knows. That is how it has been explained to me a couple times by religious people. Of course... if you are a 46 year old Tibetian who has never been exposed to God... are you still going to hell when you die? Never occured to me to ask that till now... I'll go bug someone about it :).
And yes... people are evil. Hell, even kids are in my opinion. Just look at how they treat other kids. And once they grow up, it isn't like they all of a sudden change into good people... adults just learn to hide their intentions better while inflicting more pain/damage.
YMMV, of course.
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And yes... people are evil. Hell, even kids are in my opinion. Just look at how they treat other kids. And once they grow up, it isn't like they all of a sudden change into good people... adults just learn to hide their intentions better while inflicting more pain/damage.
Even if I were not religious I would believe this to be true. The definition of maturity is the extent to which a person can deny themselves in favor of the needs of others.
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That definition even works if you look at evolution. We could not have evolved to have offspring which are basically helpless for 5-10 years without also evolving the capability to put others before ourselves.
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Originally posted by Kieran
Even if I were not religious I would believe this to be true. The definition of maturity is the extent to which a person can deny themselves in favor of the needs of others.
Bull, question of upbrining. My daughter will try to feed everyone her food, she will more or less make sure you have some toys if you are around... if parents are crap, so will the kid turn out to be.
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The only answer is that.... we don't know anything.
For all we know little carlie could have grown up to give birth to someone worse than Hitler.
Also.. free will does play a part and responsibility.... How could we let this man loose to do such a thing?
Should we have not put him out of his misery as soon as we had discovered he was a pedophile?
lazs
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Originally posted by fd ski
Bull, question of upbrining. My daughter will try to feed everyone her food, she will more or less make sure you have some toys if you are around... if parents are crap, so will the kid turn out to be.
sometimes but just as many times the reverse is true, the parents are great and the kid is crap
me believes you start this life with luggage/karma from the previous one(s)
you reap what you sow and death is not an escape - the karma boomerang is timeless
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Originally posted by mrblack
I could ask God why did you give me Prostate cancer.
Is this real cancer, cancer from a scorpion bite, or is it another MrBlack "thought experiment"?
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Originally posted by fd ski
Bull, question of upbrining. My daughter will try to feed everyone her food, she will more or less make sure you have some toys if you are around... if parents are crap, so will the kid turn out to be.
If only life were so simple. Fact is, I've seen enough parents in my time to know this is not an absolute. Oh sure, bad parents can make kids worse, but usually it just means kids never mature.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Is this real cancer, cancer from a scorpion bite, or is it another MrBlack "thought experiment"?
Heres a suggestion little boy **** off
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Originally posted by mrblack
Heres a suggestion little boy **** off
I'll **** off if you stop posting lies about yourself.
If you really are sick like you say then I wish you the best.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I'll **** off if you stop posting lies about yourself.
If you really are sick like you say then I wish you the best.
Thank you
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One thing is for sure. This world is full of evil sin and hatred, where of all things, a sick and grotesque soul would hunt down abduct, rape and murder a beautiful young girl walking home from a slumber party.
If it takes believing in a merciful and loving God to combat the works of brutal terror and savagry then I am reconsidering my doubts about the love of Christ. The only other alternative is to for all of us to surrender our love and compassion for each other, and for our children, to the viscious blood thirsty animals that hide in our collective heart.
If I can do only one thing to honor the memory of that innocent loving little girl it would be to ask for the guidance and love of Christ, to humble and care for my all to oft wounded soul and to rid me of that brutal animal that resides in my heart. I want nothing to do with that beast.
Wish me luck.
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Originally posted by Yeager
One thing is for sure. This world is full of evil sin and hatred, where of all things, a sick and grotesque soul would hunt down abduct, rape and murder a beautiful young girl walking home from a slumber party.
If it takes believing in a merciful and loving God to combat the works of brutal terror and savagry then I am reconsidering my doubts about the love of Christ. The only other alternative is to for all of us to surrender our love and compassion for each other, and for our children, to the viscious blood thirsty animals that hide in our collective heart.
If I can do only one thing to honor the memory of that innocent loving little girl it would be to ask for the guidance and love of Christ, to humble and care for my all to oft wounded soul and to rid me of that brutal animal that resides in my heart. I want nothing to do with that beast.
Wish me luck.
MY GOD man well said .
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Originally posted by Kieran
I couldn't disagree more. There have been billions of people living on this planet. I bet you cannot name 100 people that have started wars in the name of religion, and even if you can, that is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people who've actually lived. The thing is, doing good doesn't make good press. Doing bad sure does.
The cliche "religion has started more wars than anything else" is false- greed has started more wars than anything else. Greed over land, power, you name it. Add racial bigotry to that list.
Still... a little girl gets raped and killed and God is at fault, and by association the religious. Or am I missing something?
Perhaps you should read what I wrote.
And where did I state it was 'god's fault this little girl got raped. I don't believe in god.
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lawyers crying for gag orders so that this scum gets "a fair trial"
They have additional footage which clearly shows the perps car coming and going from the scene at the time of the abduction - what else do they need !!! :mad:
time to turn this guys lights out 4ever - not waste our time & money feeding/clothing/housing this wack job
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(http://www.clwoodson.com/images/blackprostate.gif)
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LOL! This thread suddenly got 1000% better!
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Raubvogel, I can't believe you would post that childish trash in this thread. Have some respect for Carlie and take your petty insults of MrBlack elsewhere, or by God, I'll help him kick your bellybutton at the con.
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LOL i might need the help I go on chemo later this week.
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Originally posted by Rude
Slo....how did Jesus view religion?
who gives a watermelon Rude....that was 2000 years before my time.....a good story...thats about it.
I've read many a good stories....
I'm just sad for this little girl....
see usually I would stop it there....but I hope Habu reads this....later when we get more information I will keep reading about it....WHY you ask.....because I would like 1 answer...how does a man who is married and has 2 children, go out and murder, rape another child....WHY
it happened before...and it will happen again....
the answer is not in the good book....its in that mans brain cells.
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Vulcan, that isn't entirely directed at you personally. Question: why is God even a part of the discussion about Carlie? Where it went from there was inevitable. God doesn't exist, or if He does He doesn't care, and most of the bad stuff that ever happened was caused by religion, etc.
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LOL i might need the help I go on chemo later this week.
Man, I'm sorry to hear that, MrBlack. My dad went through the whole prostate cancer thing about 15 years ago. Its still in remission, so if you caught it early and do what the doctor's says, you stand a great chance to beat it. I'll pray for you.
Just as an fyi, he said if he had to do it all over again, he'd just get his prostate removed. After the chemo, he can't really maintain an erection anyway, which was the whole reason he didn't want to just get it removed in the first place.
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Yeah well getting and maintaining a woody is the least of my worries right now LOL.
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Originally posted by Kieran
Vulcan, that isn't entirely directed at you personally. Question: why is God even a part of the discussion about Carlie? Where it went from there was inevitable. God doesn't exist, or if He does He doesn't care, and most of the bad stuff that ever happened was caused by religion, etc.
Ummm you still don't get it. The "non-religious" never blamed god in this thread. Its logically impossible. The "non-religious" simply stated how can you believe in the existance of a god in these circumstances. The only people able to lay the blame on god are those that believe in him.
As an atheist I do not blame 'god' for any of the actions of religious followers, I merely observe that religion is often the reason given for many of the evils in this world. Now you can debate all day long whether the people that commit these attrocities in the name of Christianity/Islam/whatever are good Christians/Muslims/whatever - it doesn't really matter - what matters is they did it in the NAME of Christianity/Islam/whatever.
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Hmm, Sniper, dates a porn star, now cancer.
Wonder if he ever flew an F-16 or worked for the CIA?
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Even if I were not religious I would believe this to be true. The definition of maturity is the extent to which a person can deny themselves in favor of the needs of others. - Kieren
This is really true. I will go one step further and assert that "God is love."
If you know that, you really don't need to worry too much about the details...
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Hmm, Sniper, dates a porn star, now cancer.
Wonder if he ever flew an F-16 or worked for the CIA?
One thing I wont cliam the title of is being an immature arse you sir have that tilte all rapped up.
LOL you pissed cause she banned you from her site :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
(http://www.clwoodson.com/images/blackprostate.gif)
Raub, that is the best post ever.
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well tarbaby I knowing how painfull my illness is would not wish it on even an arse such as yourself.
Have a nice day and get your prostate checked .
And not by your life partner that dont count.
:aok
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And I wouldn't wish it on a liar such as yourself, either. I sincerely hope you beat it. But since you're probably lying again forgive me for not crying for you tonight.
:aok <---Prostate check smiley
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I can assure you I can care less for your insulsts well wishes or just about anything from you really.
I have far too many things to worry about than what you may or may not believe LOL.
Like I really give a watermelon about you or your opinion.
To me you are nothing but a pimple on the butt of aces high.:aok
And to the original poster I am sorry this has degraded into such silly childish banter once again by a select few morons.
The subjet is on the lose of this little girl and wether it was Gods plan or not.
Perhapes out of respect for her memory we should reframe from this nonsense.
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EXPUREEMINT!!!!!
-SW
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
EXPUREEMINT!!!!!
-SW
And your exestence is based on the fact your father was too lazy to make the trip to the drug store the night of you conception.
So your just lucky to be here LOL so STFU:aok
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Once upon a time there was this lil boy who cried wolf. He cried wolf in his threads. He cried wolf in other people's threads. What happened when he finally saw a wolf? He caught prostate cancer and died but nobody believed it. Even when he didn't show up at the con to kick everyone's arse.
The (sad) end.
NOW back to your regularly scheduled program involving God and Carlie.
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Ouch, in the immortal words of MrBlack: "OWENED!"
-SW
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Now take notice of the pack mentality.
The reason behind this is because these little people lack the skill and the physical (well you know they just dont pac the gear LOL)
To engage someone on there own.
So they must form up in packs.
But I am afraid your little buddies will all be running for cover
If ANY of you have the balls to show for I will be there and I do have a list of folks who will be invited to repete to my face the things said on this BBS.
And I will be willing to bet money that maybe MAYBE 5% will do it.
And the fate of those 5%.
Well I will leave that up to your imaginations.
but I will respect them thats for sure.
As for the rest I will pitty them.
Pitty them that they were born as men but just havent lived up to the title :aok
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:aok
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Damn that was fast but predictable! That prognosis got really good, really quick. Right! Back to the con and kicking everyone's arse thing again. Unless ... of course ... you come up with some other really good story.
Just remember ... the following have already been taken:
- Skorpion bite.
- Brain tumor.
- Sudden death/illness in the family.
- Recalled to active duty in Delta Force/CIA/SEALS/Green Berets/Special Detachment for Homeland Security/as a special advisor th the POTUS ... etc.
- Abducted by aliens.
- The con fell on the same week as the big party for me at Hef's mansion.
So you may need to come up with something else.
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Oh i live but 15-20 miles away I look so foward to meeting so many new friends:aok
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Well ... October's a long way off. Maybe you'll be kidnapped by the Al Queda and tortured for your secrets about moon landings before then.
I certainly don't think your "I'm gonna kick the arses of everyone that made fun of me on the AHBB" bit is gonna scare anyone away from going. :D :aok
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Ummm you still don't get it. The "non-religious" never blamed god in this thread. Its logically impossible. The "non-religious" simply stated how can you believe in the existance of a god in these circumstances. The only people able to lay the blame on god are those that believe in him.
As an atheist I do not blame 'god' for any of the actions of religious followers, I merely observe that religion is often the reason given for many of the evils in this world. Now you can debate all day long whether the people that commit these attrocities in the name of Christianity/Islam/whatever are good Christians/Muslims/whatever - it doesn't really matter - what matters is they did it in the NAME of Christianity/Islam/whatever.
I "totally" get it. But what you don't "get" is it isn't all about you.
banana started the thread about why God would let it happen.
Assorted people discussed the nature and existance of God.
You asserted religion was responsible for much of the evil in the world.
I said it was the people using religion, not religion itself.
Clear now?
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Originally posted by Arlo
Well ... October's a long way off. Maybe you'll be kidnapped by the Al Queda and tortured for your secrets about moon landings before then.
I certainly don't think your "I'm gonna kick the arses of everyone that made fun of me on the AHBB" bit is gonna scare anyone away from going. :D :aok
I am praying it dont !
trust me LOL:aok
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Originally posted by mrblack
I am praying it dont !
trust me LOL:aok
Oh the irony. :lol
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OH the Humanity!!!!:aok
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Originally posted by mrblack
LOL i might need the help I go on chemo later this week.
IF you are going for chemo then I don't expect you to post much for about two to three weeks.
Too tired, too nauseous, too drained.
Try not posting for about two to three weeks. See how you feel then.
[Edit] Because IF you manage to post during this time when your body is reacting to the chemo then everyone will know that you are still a lieing piece of ciht that you have proven to be already many times over. On the off chance that you are telling the truth...well then, we get the luxury of not reading your tripe for a few weeks. Seems like a win-win situtation.[/edit]
PREDICTION: THE BOY WHO CRIED WOLF, THE BOY WHO CRIED WOLF, THE BOY WHO CRIED WOLF.
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I agree, let us reframe.
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Oh this is just pitiful. The chances are looking very slim that I'll be able to fly down to Texas this year. If I send a video camera, will someone tape this spectacle for me?!
Francis...err Psyco...err Mr. Black, could you get us a list of your victims so we can start up a pool now? Thanks!
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Originally posted by SOB
Oh this is just pitiful. The chances are looking very slim that I'll be able to fly down to Texas this year. If I send a video camera, will someone tape this spectacle for me?!
Francis...err Psyco...err Mr. Black, could you get us a list of your victims so we can start up a pool now? Thanks!
Well you said it yourself you wont be making it.
Then from now on anything you have to say Is as shallow as you are.
in other words you are just talking watermelon with ever having to back it up.
Now go away little person you no longer amuse me.
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If man as freewill, then we take our own decisions.
Which means we are responsible for our actions.
Which means that God had nothing to do with it.
Religion is not evil. It is only a concept, it as no will.
It does not wish anyone harm. All it does is exist in our minds
People however have will.
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Originally posted by mrblack
Well you said it yourself you wont be making it.
Then from now on anything you have to say Is as shallow as you are.
in other words you are just talking watermelon with ever having to back it up.
Now go away little person you no longer amuse me.
Out of curiosity, do you have friends in your make-believe world? Do they answer you? What color is the sky in there? Do you ever get those glimpses of reality and get scared? That momentary realization that you're not an ex-sniper, porn-star with a prostate the size of a grapefruit?
I mean really, do you have to work hard to maintain the illusion that you've ever won an argument on this board or that anyone thinks that your putdowns are effective? To ignore the fact that we are all laughing at you?
What does it take? Have you thought of renting yourself to a university for study? They could put you in a glass box, study you for a while and then write about you in the New England Journal of Medicine. Think about it, because then you'd really (By really I mean in reality where the rest of us are) be famous.
Just a thought. After all, I'm here to help.
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Originally posted by Yeager
One thing is for sure. This world is full of evil sin and hatred, where of all things, a sick and grotesque soul would hunt down abduct, rape and murder a beautiful young girl walking home from a slumber party.
If it takes believing in a merciful and loving God to combat the works of brutal terror and savagry then I am reconsidering my doubts about the love of Christ. The only other alternative is to for all of us to surrender our love and compassion for each other, and for our children, to the viscious blood thirsty animals that hide in our collective heart.
If I can do only one thing to honor the memory of that innocent loving little girl it would be to ask for the guidance and love of Christ, to humble and care for my all to oft wounded soul and to rid me of that brutal animal that resides in my heart. I want nothing to do with that beast.
Wish me luck.
Ephesians Yeag....check it out.
BTW...d/l America's Army...it's free to play as well...the whole squad is up:)
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Originally posted by SLO
who gives a watermelon Rude....that was 2000 years before my time.....a good story...thats about it.
I've read many a good stories....
I'm just sad for this little girl....
see usually I would stop it there....but I hope Habu reads this....later when we get more information I will keep reading about it....WHY you ask.....because I would like 1 answer...how does a man who is married and has 2 children, go out and murder, rape another child....WHY
it happened before...and it will happen again....
the answer is not in the good book....its in that mans brain cells.
A response common to man....much of mankind is their own God, able to solve all problems and know all things.
A closed mind will not serve you well.
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A few comments...it's nice to see a thread where people are disagreeing and not attacking one another.
And, Gloves, I love your tag line.!
Okay, for me, I think the architect metaphor is really close, but for those of us that believe in God, and those that are more devout than I will ever be, we realize that carlie, and even our children, are God's children first, and they are gifts God has given us. As horrible as this sounds, she was called back to her heavenly father in the worst way a child can go, but even her last monents on earth were in pain and fear, faith tells us that where she is now is infinitely better than anyone of us could possibly imagine.
And her death in this manner could be a call to action for us to look into ourselves and find out what's truly important and valuable. How often do we stop and really learn about our neighbors, or get wrapped up in materialism and other things that are fleeting (like perk points). So, yes, I think there is meaning in her death, and not to exact our own desire for revenge, but to maybe to become better citizens, and more aware of those around us.
And No, I am not a Bible reader, just been through my own levels of hell, and "got on through to the other side :)"
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
And, Gloves, I love your tag line.!
I'm not sure what you're referring to, but thanks. ;)
I didn't think I had a tag line.
Glove
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Gloves...didnt you have that "ninja" story?
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Nope. That was Capt. Pork.
Glove
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Originally posted by Dune
Out of curiosity, do you have friends in your make-believe world? Do they answer you? What color is the sky in there? Do you ever get those glimpses of reality and get scared? That momentary realization that you're not an ex-sniper, porn-star with a prostate the size of a grapefruit?
I mean really, do you have to work hard to maintain the illusion that you've ever won an argument on this board or that anyone thinks that your putdowns are effective? To ignore the fact that we are all laughing at you?
What does it take? Have you thought of renting yourself to a university for study? They could put you in a glass box, study you for a while and then write about you in the New England Journal of Medicine. Think about it, because then you'd really (By really I mean in reality where the rest of us are) be famous.
Just a thought. After all, I'm here to help.
Let me know when you graduate high school
Then your opinion might have some meaning to me.
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It probably won't even when you graduate yourself. The quality of education has slipped so.
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Is that suppossed to make sense LOL
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Yes. :lol
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Arlo you give stupidity a bad name:aok
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I dunno ... I thought calling it "MrBlack" was pretty accurate. Now what about my posts confuses you, again? :D
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Originally posted by mrblack
Let me know when you graduate high school
Then your opinion might have some meaning to me.
Beautiful! Exactly what I mean. It's the BBS version of "Oh Yeah? Well, you're a poopie head!". Most 3rd graders have better comebacks and putdowns than this guy.
Keep my suggestion in mind. Someday there could be a passage about you in a psych textbook, "Thanks to Mr.Black allowing us to study him, we were able to much better understand the lives of those who have no connection with reality.".
Your mom would be so proud.
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Originally posted by mrblack
One thing I wont cliam the title of is being an immature arse you sir have that tilte all rapped up.
LOL you pissed cause she banned you from her site :rofl :rofl
Who? Your make believe girlfriend? Maybe you can get one of those Japanese humping pillows printed with a picture of her on it. Why would I wan't to visit her website? I saw a couple of those pics, she looks like a booze-hag. I'm not the one with a sad make believe life and I certainly don't pay for my porn.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Who? Your make believe girlfriend? Maybe you can get one of those Japanese humping pillows printed with a picture of her on it. Why would I wan't to visit her website? I saw a couple of those pics, she looks like a booze-hag. I'm not the one with a sad make believe life and I certainly don't pay for my porn.
:rofl So i take it you did get banned LOL.
How funny:aok
And it is nice you chimmed in vulcan we were missing the last peg in the idiots leggo set.
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Ummm, no, I didn't get 'banned'. I don't visit the website, and I don't really care too either.
I'd rather be an idiot in the real world than Mr-Sniper-porn-star-dating-13-year-old in a fantasy world ;)
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Ummm, no, I didn't get 'banned'. I don't visit the website, and I don't really care too either.
I'd rather be an idiot in the real world than Mr-Sniper-porn-star-dating-13-year-old in a fantasy world ;)
Well you can just keep beating off to boys life magazine then see if I care.
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Mrblack, Dune is an ambulance chaser type. :D
He has many flaws but lack of schooling is not among them. :)
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Mr. Black,
Did you start chemo yet or did it turn out that the lump in your arse was your head?
[Edit] Isn't Dune a DA? And he certainly can spell as compared to someone else.[/edit]
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Damn, so much for Carlie.....LOL
Looks like this thread's hosed
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Mrblack, Dune is an ambulance chaser type. :D
He has many flaws but lack of schooling is not among them. :)
I know I keep his type in new mercedes benz:aok
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Originally posted by Dune
Beautiful! Exactly what I mean. It's the BBS version of "Oh Yeah? Well, you're a poopie head!". Most 3rd graders have better comebacks and putdowns than this guy.
Keep my suggestion in mind. Someday there could be a passage about you in a psych textbook, "Thanks to Mr.Black allowing us to study him, we were able to much better understand the lives of those who have no connection with reality.".
Your mom would be so proud.
Oh yeah well my brother can woop your brother:(
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Originally posted by Drunky
Mr. Black,
Did you start chemo yet or did it turn out that the lump in your arse was your head?
[Edit] Isn't Dune a DA? And he certainly can spell as compared to someone else.[/edit]
Nope start next monday.
But thanks for your concern:rofl
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Originally posted by Rude
A closed mind will not serve you well.
Irony alert!
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Octavious, whats your purpose here, do you even fly in this game?
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Originally posted by senna
Octavious, whats your purpose here, do you even fly in this game?
There's a game?
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Originally posted by senna
Octavious, whats your purpose here, do you even fly in this game?
Octavius is a good flyer .
hes in the MA most nights.
And if you dont believe hes good just ask him he will tell ya:aok
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Do you know what's going to be funny? Watching Funkedup, Dune, SOB, Octavious, Drunky, Arlo, Vulcan and some of you other bulletin board tough guys piss all over yourselves when mrblack approaches you at the Con and asks you to repeat to his face what you're saying online.
Oh, I forgot- you guys are already pussin out on going.
Buncha whimps.
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so Dune you a DA in maricopa co. ?
I went to school in scottsdale .
Beautiful country there I loved it .
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hmmmm (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108690&perpage=50&pagenumber=3)
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Originally posted by Airhead
Do you know what's going to be funny? Watching Funkedup, Dune, SOB, Octavious, Drunky, Arlo, Vulcan and some of you other bulletin board tough guys piss all over yourselves when mrblack approaches you at the Con and asks you to repeat to his face what you're saying online.
Oh, I forgot- you guys are already pussin out on going.
Buncha whimps.
Hell .... forget the "going to be" .. that's already funny. :lol
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banana sorry man for letting this get carried away.
It is a good thread tha deserves some real thought and response.
I take full blame for this silly crap and will not comment further in this thread.
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Originally posted by Rude
A response common to man....much of mankind is their own God, able to solve all problems and know all things.
A closed mind will not serve you well.
maybe I am a GOD....ya thats the ticket.....gimme a break with your bible thumpin rude....
man has been solving his problems WITHOUT his help...and will go on doing so....you seem to think this is a BAD thing because it has no GOD involved....
ya finally got my Diploma....WITHOUT his help:aok
so If you don't believe....you have a closed mind....interesting
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wow. This thread went from a discussion on god and religion to an all out insult foodfight.
Amazing.
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I can definately see some of these guys nailing people to crosses.
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
wow. This thread went from a discussion on god and religion to an all out insult foodfight.
Amazing.
Yup, it's the only place in the world some of these Emmy Award Winners can get away with talking trash...I'm not oging to the con and I'm not pissing out...just got better things to do than "prove my manhood" by telling someone off to his or her face.
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The funniest thing in this thread is that he called SOB "little person"
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Originally posted by Lance
The funniest thing in this thread is that he called SOB "little person"
You've never seen SOB naked.
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Originally posted by Drunky
Mr. Black,
Did you start chemo yet or did it turn out that the lump in your arse was your head?[/i]
[Edit] Isn't Dune a DA? And he certainly can spell as compared to someone else.[/edit]
OMGPWN3D! lol. Drunky.... you are my hero.
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I forget who everyone here is, but for BBS sparing, I'm almost sure I have noted to myself, to beware Dune.
I'll just print it now, and copy it freehand to a post-it note that i can stick on my monitor edge. Ouch.
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Originally posted by senna
Octavious, whats your purpose here, do you even fly in this game?
Huh?