Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on August 20, 2000, 08:00:00 PM
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(hopefully physics changes in FM will fix this imbalance)
it zooms better than any plane in AH
it performs w 4 cannon like it should w 2 and w 2 cannons and 25% fuel it climbs at over 5000 fpm.
it stalls at under 100mph
it has no torque at low speed
it turns better than the american planes
one of the best 190 flyers I know dosnt even fly it...
they say its way to easy to kill anything in it, it dosnt even take any skill so they fly the 190a8
the spit IX dosnt stand a chance vs a 190 the 190 out zooms even the zoom master spit 9 then runs away in a warp fest when it screws up.
so exactly what is going on with the 190a5?
all i see in the MA is tons of no skill dweebs flying around in 190a5s warp rolling and zooming and turning and burning.
oh but thats what it really was like you say?
yeah i bet it was.
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Originally posted by Citabria:
(hopefully physics changes in FM will fix this imbalance)
Huh? Pyro clearly stated that the climbrates and topspeeds wont change. The planes will lose less speed in turns. That includes ALL the planes.Your hopes are vanished.
it zooms better than any plane in AH
So? historically 190A5 was a wonderful zoomer. Fw190A8 in Aces High is one of the best zoomers here,too...didnt you ever notice?
Uh yeah I guess you never tried it, not worth a squeak because A8 is so heavy and not exactly the nimble fighter A5 is,eh citabria?
it stalls at under 100mph
it has no torque at low speed
WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?! lol
Piece of crap. show me a film that shows a 190 not stalling in Straight fly at less than 100mph. THen I'll believe you.Until then I think that what you say is pure crap.
About the torque thing, if you expect a 109's torque you will have problems, because 190 is one of the most stable planes in this planeset. Also its lateral control is so wonderful that it is easy to correct.
P51 has,too, very few torque effects. Why dont you squeak about it citabria?...why dont you cry at P51's lack of torque?
LOL when I say that people here cant stand a nimble german plane...
it turns better than the american planes
Oh,Great Citabria,enlighten this dweeb who doesnt know how to turn a 190A5 after flying it 95% of his time, because I never FLAT outturned an american plane in it, unless I had twice his E to start with.
of course high-low yoyos doesnt count dont they? if the other guy doesnt know some ACMs is not my fault,nor my plane's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
one of the best 190 flyers I know dosnt even fly it...
they say its way to easy to kill anything in it, it dosnt even take any skill so they fly the 190a8
Who?...yes A8 is a better challenge. A bigger one. Truly the biggest of all because A8 is a brick compared with anything else in this planeset.
But for me (lonewolf furballing type) A5 suits me better.I fly it as I flew A8, and the results are amazing.
It is like a marathon runner who trains with a 50lbs weight handicapping him,when he quits the weight he can run like in a dream.
When 190 loses that extra weight it is like a dream,too. Still is a 190, with its bassic advantages and shortcomings. So I fly using all its advantages, and falling in as few shorthcomings as I can.
the spit IX dosnt stand a chance vs a 190 the 190 out zooms even the zoom master spit 9
SpitIX accelerates better over 10K. At 20K SpitIX has 10 mph more than historically. Wich is the porked plane?.
Tests in WWII concluded that the only advantage SpitIX had over 190A4 was the turnrate. Other things were in 190's side, or equal. And the 190 was easier to handle.
What happens is that usually when 190s attack spits in AH they do it with more E to start with. And that is enough as FW190A5 is an equal to the Spitfire IX.
then runs away in a warp fest when it screws up.
the only plane I see warp in a regular basis is the C205. Still have to hear any rant about it like the ones I hear about A5.
BTW I NEVER, and I say NEVER, saw A5's "teoric" warproll. IMHO it doesnt exist.
so exactly what is going on with the 190a5?
That you cant afford having a german plane that outmanouvers (I dont say outturn) anything else in this planeset. And you squeak about it. And you moan. and you cry.
all i see in the MA is tons of no skill dweebs flying around in 190a5s warp rolling and zooming and turning and burning.
I see a lot of no skill dweeb A5s flying around in 190A5s. I kill them all because they TRY to turn and burn. If you dont do it is because you dont know to fly.
And again I never saw a single warproll of an A5.
oh but thats what it really was like you say?
yeah i bet it was.
Mostly, yes. Thats why RAF was so scared of this plane. That was because VVS was so scared of this plane.
USAAF fighters didnt feared it so much because mostly in 1944 there were only A8s in the western front flown by kids.
If you turn and burn in a Fw190A5 you will die FAST.and imean FAST If you do E conservative moves you will live longer. Still it cant outrun nearly all the usual planes in this planeset.
I say that it is a pretty good compromise, in fact I think is the german equivalent of the Spitfire IX,but severely handicapped by the fact that over 10K it doesnt accelerate at all. Spitfires climb up to 25-30K in a regular basis. guess who is in a disadvantage here.
w 2 cannons and 25% fuel it climbs at over 5000 fpm.
in your dreams ,maybe. Not in Aces High.
Stop the rant Citabria, or I'll start my Why-the-P47-outtunrs-everything-with-no-lose-of-E crusade,or the Why-my-190-hasnt-automatic-trim-as-real-190s-had.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-20-2000).]
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<LuftWaffle Mode ON>
What are you talking about. The 190A5 is the WORST plane in AH. Despite it being a horrendous chore we, the highly skilled LW pilots, fly it with great success over all of the Allied Opportunists in AH! This, despite the fact of this ride's obvious inadequacy in the face of the highly overmodeled P51s and other allied planes flying at 60k and diving down on us at 90 degree angles and at mach 1!
<LuftWaffle Mode OFF>
SOB
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) (http://clusterfark.webprovider.com/fish.jpg) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Citabria, you're evil (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
RAM, ya fell for that one 'ol buddy, hehe
SOB, that is some funny stuff man! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by hblair:
Citabria, you're evil (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
RAM, ya fell for that one 'ol buddy, hehe
SOB, that is some funny stuff man! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Hblair if you were yesterday in SEA you'll know that Citabria is completely serious in this thing.He spent half his time there ranting about UFO 190A5s.
I didnt answer there but I answer him here.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-20-2000).]
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Don't feel bad RAM, I've been trolled too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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sound like cit was pissed and just over stated it a little the 15 is way good ,they are about to change the flight model anyway. alot from what i hear and ram wow you can argue <S> man and in english to boot just amazing
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Originally posted by -towd_:
and in english to boot just amazing
LOL you wont say the same if you ever heard me TALKING english not writting it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
thanks anyway (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hmm...
Citabria typed in MA that FW's zoom ability is too good. Well I tryed to stay in P-47's 6 o'clock but it didn't work.
so there has to be something wrong in my A-5 or I need some lessons from Cit (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
with 25% fuel you really can fly far. Allmost to the next field (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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I have no trouble dispatching 190's in fact I regularly shoot you down RAM when you think your rediculous zoom capability can save your mistakes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
perhaps the 190 is right and all the other planes are wrong haha (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
and yes it does 5200fpm with 25% fuel and no cannon.
[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 08-20-2000).]
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Originally posted by Citabria:
I have no trouble dispatching 190's in fact I regularly shoot you down RAM when you think your rediculous zoom capability can save your mistakes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Up to tour 5, nothing.
Tour5:
ram has 1 kill and has been killed 2 times against citabria.
Tour6:
ram has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times against citabria.
Tour7:
ram has 1 kill and has been killed 3 times against citabria.
I mostly remember being killed in bounces by you, when you were higher than me. I recall at least 1 sneak kill by you.
I dont recall a single fight with you where maneouvering was the key.
So I dont think you never killed me "when you think my rediculous zoom capability can save your mistakes" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
In fact I recall the kill I got on you in Tour5. I got your wingtip and you dived on A1's acks ,only to find that I followed you and killed you.
The other one I dont recall it.But after watching the numbers, for sure that "regular basis" you say is not that "regular" dont you think?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-20-2000).]
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tour 7
Citabria has 3 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-38L against RAM in the Fw 190A-5.
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tour 7
ram has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times in the Bf 109G-10 against citabria in the P-38L.
Well now your argument is?...
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how many tours has the fw190a5 been out RAM?
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wrong again RAM.
I was in a B-26 when you killed me in a 109g10 in tour 7 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Citabria has 0 kills and has been killed 1 time in the B-26B against RAM in the Bf 109G-10.
lmao
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Ah,citabria, BTW, dont say that this thread was a troll because I dont believe it.You might want to save your head now, but after hearing you for 3 days in a row complaining about A5 (and especially about those "warprolls" you say), its quite strange that you "troll" on this matter.
Dont make me put up my film on yesteday SEA event,yes,that one where I killed you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif), and where you spent half your time squeaking about the UFO A5 on channel 1.They are 4 megas and will take a time to upload and dowload but If I must do it I will.
You cried more than fly that for sure.
And I wont say nothing about your "problems" with minus, who killed you repeatedly by sneaking in to you. You insulted him repeatedly because he was kicking your ass.
Your a sport,heh, that fer sure (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-20-2000).]
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LOL
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wrong again RAM.
I was in a B-26 when you killed me in a 109g10 in tour 7
Citabria has 0 kills and has been killed 1 time in the B-26B against RAM in the Bf 109G-10.
Woof. True. Had Tour5 on the search engine.
Still, again, so? your argument?
P38 is up since v1.1 and you with it. Since then (was tour...2? or 3? dont remember) you have killed me 5 times and me to you 2 times.
If you call that "regular"... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-20-2000).]
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Originally posted by Citabria:
LOL
Yes quite typical from you. When you run out of arguments, you put a LOL or something of similar value and you think its okay (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I always got heavy warps when 190A5 is jinking. it has too fast roll-rate. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
I really hate that!
Yeah, it s@cks. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-Mitsu
[This message has been edited by Mitsu (edited 08-20-2000).]
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LOL
the fact that you feel it's necessary to quote everything down to
LOL
is a bit neurotic don't you think?
and I never said it's a troll I said it's a rant
Forum: Aces High General Discussion
Topic: what is up with the 190a5? (caution rant)
[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 08-20-2000).]
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http://people.ne.mediaone.net/djnp/waves/luftwaffles.wav (http://people.ne.mediaone.net/djnp/waves/luftwaffles.wav)
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Tour 7 Bash got some girls #
Bash
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Hmm... I have a 65/7 k/d in A5, I find it easy to fly in MA and get kills with, its not challenging for me... I can outturn anything besides spits and zeros, flat turn or yoyos, whatever.
I beleive the A5 is a little too stable compared to the A8, it turns a bit too well and is too manouverable at low speed.
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Geschwaderkommodore JG 54
"Grünherz"
(http://www.mindspring.com/~nathownsj00/JG54Sig.jpg)
Aces High Scenario Corps
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 08-20-2000).]
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Tour 8: Bash calls the girl
Bash
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Tour 9: Bash gets Laid!!
Wahoo I score!!!
Bash
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The warp roll showed up with the A5. And i dont see how speeding up turn rates is going to make this anything but worse (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Yep,as far as I have seen the favorite 190 defense is the cross control "floppy fish" manuever-looks like a trout on crank. (http://www.geocities.com/~tomscar/deadface.gif)
I`ve always liked the 190`s-but I won`t fly the a5 due to some of the "suspicious" manuevers it seems capable of.
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So far, nobody has told me that I did a "suspicious" move in a Fw190A5.
I guess I am missing something, maybe is because that the reason that I die so much (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Then again, I promise, I never saw that "warp roll".
BTW easymo, what has to do turnrates with warp rolls?. speeding up turnrates is just that, turnrates...
or does the A5 warp ,too, while turning? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-21-2000).]
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Guys, we DO realise don't we that the Fw190A-5 was designed as an air-superiority weapon? It was fast, it was nimble, it completely outflew and outfought the Spit V, and it retained its superiority up until the arrival of the Spit IX.
It was absolutely the most feared fighter of 1943.
In contrast, the A8 we have in AH is the 'Sturmbock' version, designed for killing buffs.
You DO realise that funked's 190A5 performance data shows the A5 at WEP could climb at 4200 fpm with 100% fuel? So what would you expect at only 25% fuel. Oh, and I noticed you didn't say at what altitude the A5 could climb at 5000fpm. Care to be a bit more specific there Citabria? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Sincerely hope this is only a troll Citabria. You're too good a pilot to resort to this kind of 'cry-baby' tactic in earnest.
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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Aces High Training Corps
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umm we don't have sturm version of the 190, if we do then it needs some armor upgrades.
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See folks, this happens when allies gets serious opponent that is not a pig in a sack.
Just wait till we get Dora or such monster.. poor allies, they will whine like LW did when they had poorly modelled 109G10 and piggy 190a8, except, those were at least non compatible unlike P-51 and such.
Now, allied cowards has found that they are not such highly skilled after all, they whine.
and LW grins with their skills that they managed to train during the time they flew with 'pigs' against mosquitos.
Better start retraining course, dear allies!
(so that you guys are ready for dora)
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Well, it flies like I would imagine the Sturm version would (cannot imagine it being anything else with that horrible climb rate), so please HTC, add armor (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
As a sidenote; I've had a bit of a slump lately. Tried the A5 again; 13 kills, 2 deaths.
It's a remarkable aircraft, but I got away only because I had lots of friendlies around. I would hate to meet a 109 for a 1v1 in it.
The serious disadvantage of the A5 is that it's slower than all but the T&B'ers such as the Spits, Zeke etc. OTOH, it fights in the terms of the Z&B'ers.
One indication that there might be something wrong with the flight model is the popularity and k/d ratio of this plae; normally, most Americans prefer their home made aircraft. Few flew the 109 (although I am seeing some more of them lately), even fewer the A8. Then came he A5, and now 50% seem to be LuftWobbles.
But, for a luftwobble, it is irritating. I can go for the 109's, but that gets repetitious after a while. Then I have the choice between A5 and A8. Unfortunately, even getting to 15k in a 75% + dt A8 takes forever. And then when you're there, you're likely to be bounced. With the A8 being pig-like in terms of climb and performance at low speeds, you really need an alt advantage.
So yesterday I found myself in the A5 for a few sorties.
Think I'll relearn the A8 again, for the challenge it presents. One dweeb HogC learned that SOME 190's pack 30mm's yesterday, and that HO's with 'um might be unwise >=]
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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yesssssss (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
who is the best , the high score serious or the latest dweb who nail us when we thing easy move ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
be human and to saying the tru i also Whine when i pork my move and acouse, Is it the other plane ! , but is it only my OWN stupidity ! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
RAm Rulezzzzzzz :-)
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For anyone complaining about the performance of the 190 I suggest a book by Alfred Price Titled: Focke Wulf, FW190 in Combat. Mr Price interviewed many people inclucing Kurt Tank and the Dipl. Ing. that test flew the 190. Here are some facts. FW190 was electric, not hydraulic, did not use cable and pulleys for controls, used steel rods instead. Result, sustained battle damage like a P-47. The top speed of A models was the same listed as the SpitIX. The plane was so easy to fly that the trim was "set on the ground and secured in place"! Also the RAF was so insecure about the 190 they made a plan to hijack one! SpitV pilots were really getting on the fighter staff to do something about the 190s! Thus the MarkIX was born, but still could only out turn and generally climb with all A models but the A8, which the SpitIX could easily outclimb. 190 could out accelerate everything nose down but the Jug. Get the book, it's a great read and you'll find out why the RAF coined the term "Butcher Bird" <G>
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What a whine, expected more than that Cit (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif).
Oh btw, can somebody explain to me how i do a warproll. I guess it must be some WB-Special move, maybe it saves me from bein shot down so often (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
I think I am missing here something.
Maik
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Ok I will bite on this bait.
Before all you Luftwaffe fans stand up in defense of your favorite ride and claim to the high heavens that it matches the numbers, you better look again.
Yes the plane matches the numbers Funked posted for the A5, but the numbers Funked posted were for the 2 cannon version, and our 4 cannon version matches those numbers. So at the very least it is a little too good.
Do I believe that the A5 zoom's too well? To be honest, yes I think its induced drag is too low. But I'm not just going after the Luftwaffe aircraft, I think our P-47 (introduced at the same time) suffers from the exact same problem. They both go into the vertical like homesick angels.
I hope Pyro takes a look at both of these aircraft before 1.04 is released.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Originally posted by Vermillion:
Do I believe that the A5 zoom's too well? To be honest, yes I think its induced drag is too low. But I'm not just going after the Luftwaffe aircraft, I think our P-47 (introduced at the same time) suffers from the exact same problem. They both go into the vertical like homesick angels.
Id say that 190s nature is verticals..
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Originally posted by Vermillion:
Yes the plane matches the numbers Funked posted for the A5, but the numbers Funked posted were for the 2 cannon version, and our 4 cannon version matches those numbers. So at the very least it is a little too good.
(http://www.airtel.net/hosting/0003d/ebringas/190a5climb.gif)
I regard this data as the A5's climb with 50%fuel+4cannons.
As you see, at 5K seems to be a bit less than 4100fpm. For me It looks quite accurate.
Over that altitude A5's climbrate (and acceleration) drops dramatically
to an average of only 3000fpm (all with wep).
I dont thing this climbrate is one of an UFO.
Regarding E retention, Verm...A8 zooms like a hell, keeps E very well at high speeds. So the "non-handicapped" 190A5 should keep E much better (it has less drag and weight).
And that is what happens here. no more, no less.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-21-2000).]
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Verm, weren't both the 190 and P47 renowned for their zoom climb performance?
"The Thunderbolt howled and ran for earth. Barely had the Spitfire started to follow - and I was a long way ahead of him by now - when I jerked back on the stick and threw the Jug into a zoom climb. In a straight or turning climb, the British ship had the advantage. But coming out of a dive, there's not a British or German fighter that can come close to a Thunderbolt rushing upward in a zoom".
Ya know, sometimes I really wonder about some of the guys who post on this and 'the other sims' board. It's as though the only thing that matters is sustained turn. Look at the current WB Jug ... do you REALLY want the AH Jug to be as 'vertically challenged' as the WB Jug?
Let the Spit have its turn and e retention, let the 109 series have its climb.. but for heavens sake let the 190 and Jug have their vertical performance!
Or don't some people like a fair fight?
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RAM look at the RLM data that Funked has posted over and over, its for a 2 cannon 190A5. It matches exactly the performance that our 4 cannon A5 has in AH.
And you can't match the data for 50% fuel in AH to the real life data. The real data is from 100% fuel tests.
Guys I know all about the historical characteristics of the P47 & 190's, and that zoom climbs were their strengths. I don't argue that in the least.
But look at those two particular aircraft in comparison to the rest of the planeset. They don't fit in the way they should.
Its really funny that many of you that instantly jump onto me when I mention the A5, are the exact same people that are squeaking about the same problem in the P47. Oh so the P47 is wrong, but the A5 is absolutely correct? LOL! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
And Jekyll
Or don't some people like a fair fight?
Thats pure crap and you know it. I don't have a "favorite ride" and I am not a "Pony Boy" or a "Luftwobble". I play no favorites and have commented on the aircraft of every airforce in the game, both good and bad.
So don't pull this "Your just out to get the Luftwaffe, cause it has a good ride" malarky.
If that was so, I wouldn't have been one of the people that commented repeatedly, when the P-38 was severely out of whack, and had the same kind of incredible zoom performance.
Just ask Citabria, I go after ANY plane that I think is messed up.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Originally posted by Vermillion:
And you can't match the data for 50% fuel in AH to the real life data. The real data is from 100% fuel tests.
And the shot I posted is (I think) from a 2 cannon 50% Fw190A5,so the chart data SHOULD show better performance than REAL LIFE data.I dont see what are you trying to say here, with 100% fuel A5 doesnt climb at 4000fpm, that for sure (I know it well, I fly it all day long)
AH's 190A5 with 2x20mm and 50% fuel climbs at 4100feet/minute at 4/5K, Verm. So where is the problem?...a 4 cannon 190A5 WILL perform worse than in Pyro's chart, so I dont see the problem here.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-21-2000).]
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RAM - The climb charts are for full internal fuel. That's how they did these tests in WW2 and how HTC presents the data.
They match my Wright Field charts for a G-3 (A-5 airframe) pretty well. The problem is that my charts are for a plane with no outer cannon or cowl MGs. http://members.xoom.com/mikewaltz/p76.jpg (http://members.xoom.com/mikewaltz/p76.jpg)
So it's probably a couple of hundred pounds light. Not enough to make a big difference, but still...
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-21-2000).]
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See folks, this happens when allies gets serious opponent that is not a pig in a sack.
Just wait till we get Dora or such monster.. poor allies, they will whine like LW did when they had poorly modelled 109G10 and piggy 190a8, except, those were at least non compatible unlike P-51 and such.
Now, allied cowards has found that they are not such highly skilled after all, they whine.
and LW grins with their skills that they managed to train during the time they flew with 'pigs' against mosquitos.
Better start retraining course, dear allies!
(so that you guys are ready for dora)
Fishu-your full of sh*t,I flew LW from beta until the P47 was introduced. Comments like yours aren`t needed or welcome.
Instead of constant adversarial comments why don`t you learn a bit of tact?
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>Then again, I promise, I never saw that "warp roll".
it really looks like "chute walking"
http://members.xoom.com/Mitsuu/AHCentral/Films/chutewalking.ahf (http://members.xoom.com/Mitsuu/AHCentral/Films/chutewalking.ahf)
please see it.
warp roll is very similar to this. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Funked, humm...ok on the test.G3s had outer cannons and cowl guns removed allways... Still, did that G3 had bomb racks or were not fitted?. They added drag and weighted quite a bit.
Somehow I dont believe that Pyro missed in this matter,as it is a very evident thing.But who knows. I feel it is the way it should, but I admit I am still a newbie in aircraft matters (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Anyway,I always thought that AH's charts were done wiht 50% fuel. Thanks for correcting this.
Jihad, while Fishu may sound (he DOES sound) harsh, he is bassically right. Read citabria's posts. There are a lot of allied plane nuts that simply cant stand a decent competition from a Fw190. They have anchored deep in their mind that the 190 MUST be a brick regardless of all proofs that say the inverse. You, evidently, arent one of those, but the big majory is.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-21-2000).]
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RAM - go to my website: http://members.xoom.com/mikewaltz/F-TR-1102-ND.htm (http://members.xoom.com/mikewaltz/F-TR-1102-ND.htm)
I got this document from the historical office of the museum at Wright-Patterson AFB (aka Wright Field). There are about 50 pages but I am too lazy to scan them all.
The plane had no bomb racks. It was made to be as much like an A-5 as possible. However the takeoff weight of 8538 pounds is 200 to 300 lbs less than I have seen for A-3 and A-4 with 6 guns and ammo. A-5 as you know had a longer fuselage than A-3 or A-4, and should be a little heavier.
I don't know that Pyro missed. He may have some better data than I do. But the Wright Field speed and climb charts seem to match the HTC charts pretty well. In any case we are not talking about a huge discrepancy here.
I just wanted to clarify the situation so that future generations of FM whiners will have some facts to use. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-21-2000).]
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Originally posted by funked:
A-5 as you know had a longer fuselage than A-3 or A-4, and should be a little heavier.
IIRC, the A5 had a revised lighter wing structure, apart of the lenghtenging of the fuselage.
So I believe the weights of A4 and A5 were quite close because that.
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Thanks Jeckyll, You beat me too it. That was from robert Johnsons book. he writes about an encounter over England when he encountered a Spit9B and they played a little bit. The P-47 has alot of weight to throw around, this is a BIG factor in giving it its zoom. A seven ton of AC at 350 IAS goes vertical---it aint stopping for a while (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Should I post a piece of text in the book where he talks about the installation of the Big Paddle blade prop? He basically says he can climb with anything in the ETO in his P-47.
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Pork the A5. Pork the P-47.
Leave the G10 alone (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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There are a lot of allied plane nuts that simply cant stand a decent competition from a Fw190. They have anchored deep in their mind that the 190 MUST be a brick regardless of all proofs that say the inverse. You, evidently, arent one of those, but the big majority is
As is evident by the 4 people that conceded there are some questionable traits in regards to the 190.. in their oppinion.
How about this... most people play the game and adjust to their surroundings. A minority enjoys spending time bickering over minor statistics. These people are critical to the game in that they help ensure HTC is kept honest and we apreciate their efforts even if we don't like to admit it. I just don't see there being any kind of "majority" here.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by jihad:
Yep,as far as I have seen the favorite 190 defense is the cross control "floppy fish" manuever-looks like a trout on crank. (http://www.geocities.com/~tomscar/deadface.gif)
I`ve always liked the 190`s-but I won`t fly the a5 due to some of the "suspicious" manuevers it seems capable of.
I've seen it alot...seems the 190 misses the position update due to lag...
one seconds it's upright, the next it's upside down, with no animation inbetween.
Same thing happens during a scissors, but the jerk is less obvious...they jerk either a quarter or an eigth during the flop.
In any case it makes them rather hard to hit. I've never seen an A8 do this.
- Jig
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"What has to do turn rates with warp rolls"
It is nearly impossible to stick stir in precisely a horizontal direction. That means the penalty is E bleed. Remove this penalty, and yanking left and right becomes the ACM of choice
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I didn't realize there was and "allied" and "axis" faction in AH. I just fly flight sims for the fun and challenge. All aircraft have their strengths and weaknesses. Wise man once said only ask your craft to do what it can, not what it can't. Take advantage of what your craft gives you, no matter what it might be. Thats' the key to winning. If you ask it to do something it can't, then certainly failure will be the result. Fly your aircrafts strengths,not it's weaknesses. The game is fun when two craft of different abilities, such as ROC, roll rate etc. tangle. The pilots ability to manage e and g's will be put to task. the loser usually is the one who, loses E first, and fights to the opponents strength. Just a thought from an old flight sim junkie and aircraft hobbiest <G>
PS: All craft zoom well in the verticle if the pilot unloads Gs'. All things being equal speed etc. the only factor should be inherent drag <G> lousy spelling I apologize <G>
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Being a novice in programming and aircraft,
(In the army we put the prop on top)
I'm thinking through this without all the nasty bias (being self aware enough to know my name isn't Priller)
what other factors go into the physics model?
drag,lift,gravity,thrust,kinetic and potential energy, what would be missing?
(no I don't know, I'm thinking out loud)
is the gravity a constant in the program?
Is velocity a constant? (worth a look, seeing we have reports of speed discrepancies)
Is air density a global value or calculated per in game object?
See there's a lot we don't have enough data on,
HTC does I'm sure, and will sort out any problems when they see them.
In short, go ahead and question things that might need attention, but leave the fighter pilot tough guy image in your virtual cockpit. I'd like to think I deal with partially rational folks, let me cherish my illusions (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
P.S. I have seen all planes in this game do a warp roll, it's a net thing, get over it.
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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In my experience, I have noticed that the 190 (don't know which the a5 or a8) seems to warp more often than other planes.
This from an adversarial stand point and for all I know a simple coincidence.
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"My Motto: Just have fun!!!! "
Swager
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I am certainly a FW fan. And I fly the A5 a fair amount. But there is something weird, It looks like pilots can induce warp in it. This attracts a dweeb contingent to the plane that makes it less desirable for me to fly. Please give this ability to some other plane so these people will fly that instead of my favorite ride..
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Originally posted by -ammo-:
Thanks Jeckyll, You beat me too it. That was from robert Johnsons book. he writes about an encounter over England when he encountered a Spit9B and they played a little bit. The P-47 has alot of weight to throw around, this is a BIG factor in giving it its zoom. A seven ton of AC at 350 IAS goes vertical---it aint stopping for a while (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Should I post a piece of text in the book where he talks about the installation of the Big Paddle blade prop? He basically says he can climb with anything in the ETO in his P-47.
Those myths have been around for a while. it's quite sad to see people use them as a prove that "their" aircraft outpreformed "others"
From Gabby Gabreski at WB con - best pure fighter of WWII - Spitfire 9.
Fighter for fighter it was the best.
Is that good enough ?
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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It is like a marathon runner who trains with a 50lbs weight handicapping him,when he quits the weight he can run like in a dream.
Show me a marathoner that does this, and I will show you a marathoner who watches the run on T.V. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Pongo:
the overall performance of teh A5 has so many newly converted dweebs flying it that I have a very hard time taking it up. I agree with you.
A8; very few warp rolls. A5; many more, plus dweebier pilots.
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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My last two kills on 190-A5s has come low to the ground as the 190 was chasing a friendly. I'd dive down to clear the 6... and the 190 simply began to roll back and forth making it nearly impossible to get a shot. I'd simply wait for them to either 1) Stop rolling or 2)auger from finally stalling from too many rolls. Both of my last two kills were from the latter.
Neither of the two planes broke from the pursuit.
AKDejaVu
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Just wondering why everyone new who comes to the game and decides to fly a 190A-5 is instantly a "dweeb"? I don't fly it, but if I did, would that make me an instant "dweeb"...even though I've flown other sims for 3 years before coming here. Nice way to attract and keep potential new people to the community.
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LJK_Raubvogel
Luftjägerkorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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RAM :
The RAE had a huge amount of respect for the 190 but in conclusion of there report they said :-
"The general impression gained by pilots taking part in the trials is the the Spitfire IX compares favourably with the FW 190 and that provided the Spitfire has the initiative, it has undoubtedly a good chance of shooting it down"
P.S. Also i don't believe that test is a great source with regard to performance due to the fact the 190 had dodgy spark plugs (jeffery quill tells the story of how it's engine died in a flat out low level race between the 190, typhoon, and griffon spit.) Also i believe the spit 9 wasn't run at full boost for some reason.
[This message has been edited by jmccaul (edited 09-08-2000).]