Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: doolitle on February 06, 2004, 11:30:55 PM
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wellll....im ol doolitle...the bounty hunter young boi...over the past couple of months if progressed quite well......ive familiarized myself with some premere trianers and some outstanding seinor pilots such as roscoroo , sugar 2 foxtrot ,and even protege pilots such as bighorn.....i give great respect to those offering there help in any dagree or fashion and hold anyone whom has offered the slightest bit of there expertise with highregaurd...no dought that the info that you select few have distributed has given me a advantage in AH combat( i respect that) but...theres still somthing left to be desired....theres only so far someone can go with spontaneuos trainig sessions that cover major pionts in a meager fashion...l(in other words its being explained all to vague and in such short increments). what im asking for is a little hard for someone to do..and i understand if there is no way that such a thing can be done...im asking for a teacher student role...where i am taught step by step from a designated Trainer...(also in a more advanced level as i have already covered the basics)...to sum it all up in a nut shell i cant comprehend alot of what is being taught in a form that is meant for those whom already oversatand such concepts....i need to get it in order but dont know how..and i am requesting any assistance some one with ample time my have to offer...agian i do understand the odds of this ever succeding in my favor.....but i just had to try
so..if anyone with the time to spare and the experiance to share holla at me..ol doolitle
contact me at eveosda@aol.com "first from the eyries"
<> to the 71st
pe@CE
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First off, film every flight and review them... you'll find yourself correcting mistakes you have made in the past. Unfortunately, learning in the Main Arena is tough, as the bad guy is going to give you as smallest amount of time to learn anything before he shoots you down.
Knowing where the bad guy is (imho) more important than having good stick skills. Note where the bad guy when he engaged you and his approximate speed. I'm not sure if you even have a joystick, but make sure you map view keys to the joystick where they are easily accessible. They are hands down your most used buttons (or should be).
Duel or do some 1v1 training in the Training Arena. This way, you can condense as much fighting into a smaller period.
Grab this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0870210599/qid=1076158934/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-6481293-9914535?v=glance&s=books) , read a little at a time. You'll be exposed to ideas that will help you. Don't try to digest it all at once, you'll get overwealmed and discouraged.
Lastly, keep a good attitude seasoned with patience and not only will you have a lower blood pressure, but you'll also have more 'vets' willing to teach you.
I'll fly with you, ask me in the arena. :)
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lol preciate the responce.........who wouldve thought youd be the one to offer expertise..lol...thanks man....will try what youve recomended......oh yea...you owe me an f6f kill tuff guy..lol;)
hope tah see ya out there on the field....
"mind your mind for the jewls of your souk"
pe@ce
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"mind your mind for the jewls of your SOUL*"..........:aok
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For what it's worth,
The guys that I've trained find great value in riding along with me in my fighter at various intervals after working on certain disciplines for a bit. Yes, you can join someone in their fighter too.
Just don't send a join request without asking on text first please ;)
A ride along helps you see in action some of the things you've discussed and practiced. This should help you refine and remember what you learn.
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Doolittle, drop me an email soda@hitechcreations.com and we can talk/work on some stuff. There simply is a lot to learn and much of what you'll develop will be the result of some tough lessons (ie, getting shot down a bunch) and learning from them. The best anyone can do is give you some background and explain certain concepts (things you need to know or things you will see) to help you in the right direction. I know I've talked to you about it a bit before in the TA. Not sure if you did a ride-along with me or not but I thought you had. Anyway, drop me an email and we can work on a couple of things and maybe you can just tag a long a bit with me (ride along). That sometimes can help put a lot of the small components (the things people say to do) together into one big picture.
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doolittle...
It's a long road from the bottom to the middle of the pack...let alone to the top of the heap. It's been along time since I was a trainer here...and truthfully the entire game dynamic has changed. Overall ACM has been devalued as numbers have increased...other factors like gunnery & situational awareness have increased geometrically in importance. That being said I almost bet your problem lies in the "basics" you think you understand. You can break down an individual fight into three components...the opening, the middle game and the finish...you don't die till the end...but 80% of the time you lost the fight in the 1st 30 seconds...15% of the time you get out manuevered in the midgame...and 5% of the time you got the sucker dead to rights and he pulls one of those "how the #$%^ did he do that" deals at the end. I'll go ahead and post a clip back to this thread later tonight that might help give you some perspective on "ACM building blocks"...way back when after I knew a guy understood the basics I'd grab a 109 F and have him grab his favorite ride and get some alt on me and spend 20-30 minutes (or however long ammo lasted) trying to hose me. Invariably after being tickled 10-15 times by the 7.7mm of the 109 the light started to go off with regard to the physics of ACM...anyway I'll post this back up here for you later tonight or tomorrow...think it will help you some.
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the high numbers in the main and huge furballs are really nothing but a kill fest .. its not very good for really advancing your skills .
(I find myself in these mass furballs and shure i get 3-5 kills and then its 6-10 guys chasing me and i ussually end up dead )
I learned alot more when the numbers were lower and i could pick my fights . get back to more 1 vs 1's and 1 vs 2 or 3's .
the 1 vs 2 helps your SA alot you have to keep track of bolth guys and eventually you learn what not to do . (knowing what types of planes they are and how they perform really helps alot to)
another trick is to get your self a wingman and learn and use wingman tactics against them , (by having to keep track of your wingman it forces you to use more SA .)
I think what you may need to look at is "timing in your acm" also .
After you get confident in your favorite plane/s you should
each month pick 1 or 2 different planes that you havent flown and fly them a couple nights a week or more until you learn there capability's .Same thing goes for a type of plane that kills you alot . go fly it and see what its adv / disadvatages are at .
In multible boogie fights are you picking off the plane that will most likely outperform you first ??
Well theres just a few diff things for you to think about and try to progress .
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doolittle...
Here are the clips I promised (I hope:) ...
Again these aren't "dog fights" per se...know one gets killed...simply clips that illustrate some of the fundementals...I picked three all are from "festerville" last weekend. In all three I'm in an La-5...
Clip 1
Basically is just a simple merge done "right"...also a good primer on "avoiding the HO" I've flown AH for 4+ years and have never been HO'd unless i'm open to it...
http://www.azhacker.com/images/film398.ahf
Clip 2
This is a pretty typical MA situation...A slightly pos E spitty coming up my 6...same principles as 1st clip...same outcome as 1st clip...
http://www.azhacker.com/images/film400.ahf
Clip 3
Another typical MA situation..a higher alt, higher E pony takes an interst in my La-5...same principles as 1st two...same outcome
http://www.azhacker.com/images/ponyreversal.ahf
None of these are overly pretty and in the 2nd & 3rd I'm reacting to what the bogie does...but these should give you a bit of a primer...if your beyond these let me know I'll rummage thru the clip file and see if I can get you some more appropriate stuff.
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those are real good clips but unfortunatley im passed levels on the merge and all....what DID interest me is how you managed to make that spit 9 overshoot an la7..interesting..and how did you manage to get a 1on 1 situation in the /ma?..on top of that you two met up alone...impressive....almost like it was coordinated..but yea...if its not to much trouble..toss me one off those real juicy ones...<
> to ya humble...one of those great ones
pe@CE
to the 71st
"first from the eyries"
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the la7 can out turn a spit 9 if you stall fight with it or cut the throttle and give it a quick notch of flaps .(ussually just the throttle is enough)
an la5 turns even better then the 7 .
the hardest thing to learn in a spit 9 is when to go full bore and when to slow it down alittle, it needs a fine balance or it will overshoot alot .
as for 1 vs1's in the main there easy to find when the numbers are down below 150 . heck you can even call guys out at they'll ussually meet ya for 1 on 1's .
you might want to spend time in the la's , for quick base defense there one of the best planes you can use.
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from what ive been told is that the la7 was only good for its speed and its not "that" great of an aircraft.......i think you guys need to prove its worth to me...or i just need to get nailed by em a lil more..lol..never the less...im still weary of its performance..esp when some one like soda tells ya how crapy it is....this is exactly the kinda thing that makes me start a thread such as this...i respect you senoir members to a degree that i hardly dought your word....but ive been chasin my tail long enuff lol....i guess this is one of those"eye of the beholder"deals huh?.....well thanks for the heads up both of ya.....rosco...ill try that la7 to prove its worth.....who knows
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if ya want ill stop by the TA when i get home from work in a hour . and show ya what a la can do .
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Originally posted by doolitle
those are real good clips but unfortunatley im passed levels on the merge and all....what DID interest me is how you managed to make that spit 9 overshoot an la7..interesting..and how did you manage to get a 1on 1 situation in the /ma?..on top of that you two met up alone...impressive....almost like it was coordinated..but yea...if its not to much trouble..toss me one off those real juicy ones...<> to ya humble...one of those great ones
pe@CE
to the 71st
"first from the eyries"
The underlying ACM is the same in all three...I'd say you understand alot less than you think. I'm pretty sure I flew all three without anything fancy (flaps/throttle/trim). The fundementals are the same in the spitty clip as in the 1st one...the application is just different. Your original thread is about "putting it all togeather"....you think the answer is in understanding the small details when most of it lies in really understanding the big picture....I'm far from an ace...but even so I'm a ***** to kill one on one (most of the time:)).
What usually frustrates a newer player is that they "jump" one of the more experienced vets and get waxed when they have all the variables in their favor...what I'm showing you is the view from the other side....without the "end game" to distract you from the real area of importance. Your viewing a piece of the puzzle not the big picture...i.e. you see the spit...not the underlying ACM...I'd of made any plane miss there..I could of been in a pony 190 vs a nikki or a zeke and done the same thing (if bogie flew the same profile).
I'll break the spitty one down for you a bit...you'll notice I let him keep coming....why...
I wanted him to be "engaged" for the shot...his correct move would of been a high oblique of some kind to "mirror" my low oblique turn...the further away at the reverse the more likely that he would manuever "out of plane" (book of drex)
However I needed to have enough seperation to get a Merge not be denying a gun solution...(2.0 works for me)
2nd you'll notice I went high and to the opposite side from my break turn....why....
1) bleed speed
2) "store" energy
3) build up angles by increasing lateral seperation
So.....I engaged him on the reverse in the "proper" position while presenting him with a "sucker shot"...freezing him in a bad position while he looked at the shot...initiating a rolling scissors which repeated the same engagement profile....my ACM profile kept him working against his own E state while maximizing mine (i.e I wasn't cheating by working the throttle)...simply slowing and storing energy by going uphill...while he was pulling for shot going "down hill"....if the film is following views you'll see he's in sight thru the whole clip except when I'm checking for "overspeeding"...
End result spits the spit out in front of me:aok
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ALT F4:D
Couldn't resist
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Thanks for posting those films , Humble. I'm getting a better idea of what threatening angles looke like. I notice on a few passes, you don't even look back right away. After looking at the films a few times, I guess it because you know there is no possible shot by the look of the plane as it passes by(i.e.., where there were a few options the attacker could take, none was an imediate threat). I can see this when on some passes, but of course not as much as what you veterans are seeing. I also like the way you went from an entergy disadvantage to a major entergy advantage on the 190. No fireworks, but very instructive - thanks for posting them.
>>you think the answer is in understanding the small details when most of it lies in really understanding the big picture....<<
I believe this. The reason any plane is flown correctly is understanding the physics of whats going on. The thing is remembering those physics in the heat of battle is hard :)
For example, I gripe about my gunnery all the time. Yet I can't tell you how many times I see myself firing in lag pursuit (whether lagging in the lift or off to the side) in the films. I know you can't hit a target in lag pursuit (on either axis), but its remembering this at the time. I guess if one makes a mental note to NEVER fire in lag pursuit his gunnery would have to get better.
Anyway, thats my goal this camp. To make sure corrections go from lead to pure, and never from lag to lead.
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>>la7 was only good for its speed and its not "that" great of an aircraft<<
I suspect any aircraft 300 on your six is great. People joke about the pea shooter zeke, but its no joke on your 6.
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>>the la7 can out turn a spit 9 if you stall fight with it or cut the throttle and give it a quick notch of flaps .(ussually just the throttle is enough) <<
And if the spit9 goes into a climbing spiral? If I remember right, flaps just suck in a climbing spiral. I know if a la anything is turnfighting my spit, my nose is gonna be above the horizon. Is this wrong?
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Tweety....
I noticed that I wasn't "looking at" the 190 either....I don't really have a good reason why...I certainly "know where he is" ... not sure if I was just lazy or somehow the views didnt capture right.
Glad the clips helped a little....I've got 1 I shot last night that I'm going to try and upload (site seems to be down this morning).
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doolitle....
Here's one more clip for you...shot this one last night.
1st part is a pretty good attack profile for buff's in case you need it. @nd is the part that relates to the clips above...basically this is identical to the spitty clip...as I roll out from the buff's I've got a con closing in thru 2.1 on my 6...of course here I'm flying for "real"... so I'm dialed in for a guns solution...which I get...and miss arrgghhh $#%^&...anyway I track him down shortly but as I said gunnery is paramount in the MA...all kinds of bad things could of happened in the 15 sec extra it took...you'll notice my SA goes to pot and I "fish the nose" a bit to long looking for the shot...
All in all though it shows why the 1st three clips are so valuable...the 38 didnt really understand I was engaging to kill him...not avoid him. Once you truely begin visualize the right E fighting "profiles" then you really dont care where the other guy is...far as I'm concerned if there's only one of you your outnumbered regardless of relative position/E state.
Now you need to realize that 100+ other guys cruise around feeling exactly the same way:)...but that still leaves the other 3000+ fish in the sea:aok
http://www.azhacker.com/images/film101.ahf
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you think the answer is in understanding the small details when most of it lies in really understanding the big picture
this is a very true statment <>...although had my ego been involved id be inclined to take offense:p ...lol...luckily some one told me to leave that(my ego) at the door for the first year or two..
all BS aside..i respect your honest responces and hope the many others i am soon to meet or as half as honest as you...
to you humble...
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OK rosco....."we got buisness then"..meet ya in the TA...in cant wait:aok
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>the la7 can out turn a spit 9 if you stall fight with it or cut the throttle and give it a quick notch of flaps .(ussually just the throttle is enough) <<
And if the spit9 goes into a climbing spiral? If I remember right, flaps just suck in a climbing spiral. I know if a la anything is turnfighting my spit, my nose is gonna be above the horizon. Is this wrong?
Tweety...the tough thing about ACM is that the "right move" today...will kill you tomorrow. There really are no absolutes...but...
The key is the relative combination of E and angles. As a rule the positive E "player" want's to maximize energy retention until he can covert it to angular advantage...the Neg E "player" wants to maximize angular advantage while minimizing E bleed....so if your the spitty you have less "potential E" than the la-7...but you can turn more efficently (you lose less E for the same result)...the question of nose up or not is dependent on angles and E at a given moment...if I'm in a spitty vs a lala I'm more concerend about the speed of the fight...a faster fight benifits the lala...if I can slow him down then I'll gain relative E if i'm forcing him to maintain moderate G loading...Ideally I'll fly the same "profiles" you've already seen...however the better sticks will counter early and you'll need to go to plan B. Rosco's right on with the spitty...basically your getting off the gas and going to "angles"...the lala has to respect the hizooka's and you'll eat up his E...or he'll give you a look...the key is avoiding letting the lala get over you...don't worry bout spiraling on him...dont let him do it to you.
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How long you been playing Doolittle?
Have you been to some of the resources on the net?
Heres my suggestions:
1.Try http://www.Netaces.org as a start
2. Read offensive and defensive tactics, pick a specific manouver from each and go to the MA determined to practice them. Once you have a good feel for them, pick another set and train on them.
3. After you've got some experience, re-read it all.
4. Warm up a little at a vacant field before heading into the fights.
5. ALWAYS film your flights & review.
6. Always constantly check your 6, ESPECIALLY when you are trying to get a gun solution on the nme, failure to do this is reason #1 noobs die a lot.
7. Spray n Pray, gunnery skills come along eventually
8. Learn how to barrel roll. Great manuever, useful in all kinds of situations.
9. Die a lot. For me, the learning curve to get to being a decent pilot was probably a month and a half of spending hours and hours glued to that keyboard.
10. Be patient. By learning manuevers, practicing them, reveiwing films, you'll start putting together some moves and enjoying successes.
Good Luck!
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Just to chime in here with a quick observation I made awhile back that really increased my understandings of fighting in AH. Knowing the manuvers that have brought me success isn't enough, It was when I realized WHY they had worked that I saw an improvement in my abilities.
Knowing that a hard break into a bandit bouncing you from high 6oc could set you up for a reversal is compeletly different than understanding why you can get that reversal. You can then take that knowledge and apply it to many situations.
Seems kinda obvious but this realization did wonders for me. (Though I still manage to die more often than not it seems. :))
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thanks for the heads up soulyss.....<<
>> preciate it
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Tweety...
Happened to have a high lala that wanted to molest my FM-2...kind of illustrates what I was talking about...once I sucked him in he couldn't extend (in his mind at least) and you'll notice I was gaining ground even though I'm in a much slower plane...partly since I'm flying the smaller "inside circle" but also since his plane is less efficient under moderate G's....opening is pure "book of Drex"...great article he wrote awhile back....i'm sure someone has the link.
http://www.azhacker.com/images/film7.ahf
Notice I was firing even though I didnt have him zeo'd in...just trying to keep him turning:)
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Originally posted by Soulyss
Just to chime in here with a quick observation I made awhile back that really increased my understandings of fighting in AH. Knowing the manuvers that have brought me success isn't enough, It was when I realized WHY they had worked that I saw an improvement in my abilities.
Knowing that a hard break into a bandit bouncing you from high 6oc could set you up for a reversal is compeletly different than understanding why you can get that reversal. You can then take that knowledge and apply it to many situations.
Seems kinda obvious but this realization did wonders for me. (Though I still manage to die more often than not it seems. :))
Bingo....exactly how I feel...
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Thanks again for the films. After watching the first film, I decided to take an f6f up offline just to see how it flew. I was absolutely amazed at its guns. Why does it seem to aim so easy? I know it carries a large ammo load, but the act of putting the the bullet stream on the target seems a lot easier than it does in a spit. Well after that I started trying different models offline just to see how the guns felt. I noticed the Niki also seems to aim almost as easy. Is there something about the guns in those two planes that make them easier to use? I checked out the convergences, and it they were similar to other planes (e.g., F4U-d). Yet while hitting something 500 out in an f4ud was hard (and damn near impossible for me in a FW-A8), it was quite easy in the f6f and niki. Why would certain guns be easier?
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The F6 D hog and Jug are all "chopamatic"...the pony is a bit tougher for me. Personally I hate the ballistics (and everything else) for the nikki...but many others love em. Personally the F6F is probably the most versital (sp?) plane in the game. The 205 is a better performer but the vis issues even things out...specially as bad as MA is now.
La-5 still the deadliest plane in the game.
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Is there something about the guns in those two planes that make them easier to use?
yes - stability.
you tried the F4u. the hog suffers from some instability in the yaw direction. notice that when you roll it the nose swings left and right when you stop.
Other planes have a nasty "nose bumping" effect (try the yak).
the N1k is a very smooth flyer, and although the balistics aren't much, the ease of stabling the piper on the target and the fact that you have 4*20mm (only need 2-3 hits) makes the gunnery easier.
Bozon