Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Munkii on February 07, 2004, 05:06:01 PM
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I'm looking into getting a Hand gun for some range shooting and such. I've been looking around at various calibers, and a 9mm looks like the best bet, but I haven't ruled out anything just yet. I don't want to spend too much, 400 or so.
The weight of the gun doesn't matter to much, just don't want something that will break my wrists with the recoil. :D Anyone have any recommendations?
I already have an antique .22 rifle, and a .22 pistol isn't out of the question, but I'd like to shoot something a little larger.
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May I recomend a 1911? Fun gun, big bullet, bigger blast.
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...and slightly larger then a .22.
A good place to try out different guns and calibers is at a shooting range that rents pistols. A .45 might be a bit overkill, you might want to try a .38 and 9mm. Oh, and Glocks are sexy, but if you're not used to a lot of recoil, don't get tunnel vision on the Glock, as I've found the lightweight barrel makes barrel jump more likely.
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S&W 38 revolver is very good starter pistol, also 9mm barretta's. Both are light & easy to aim, with low recoil.
I have a 1911 & it's fun but wouldn't recommend for your 1st pistol.
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Thanks for the reply's, I had looked at a 1911, but they were fairly large. I've shot everything from a .22 Ruger to a .50 DE, but I never felt connected to the particular pistols, but I haven't shot every brand. Things I've shot:
Ruger .22
S&W .38 Revolver, don't like revolvers much
Browning 9mm Collectors Edition
Colt .45 Revolver, was a lot of fun, big recoil
.50 DE, WOW! if it wasn't so much, this would be my first gun, can't rapid fire it, but one hit takes out half the target lol.
I was looking at a Glock, Baretta, or Sig. I've heard good things about baretta's and a few about glock, nothing about Sig. I'd love to have a Sig 57, I think that is the .22 version, but they seem pretty expensive. Anyone know anything about the Glock 17?
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2 guns I suggest you try:
Ruger .41 Mag Blackhawk
S&W .357 Mag
Both are fun to shoot and the .357 has less recoil along with cheaper ammo.
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Tanfoglio Witness
available in .22 9mm 10mm .40 .45
takes about 1 min to change calibers from anyone to anyother.
can be gotten brand new 250 bucks
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Get a Glock
"Glock em till they drop"
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I've shot just about every popular caliber, from .22 to .25 to .380, 9mm, .40 .38, .357, .44, .454 Casul, .45 and the ever-pricey .50mag.
.40 is probably the most practical, all things considered. Lots of stopping power but more controllable than the .45. 9mm is tons of fun but I just don't see it as the best defensive caliber--something I don't know about in practice but am assuming based on recoil and muzzle velocity. .45 is awesome, and the 1911 is an incredibly designed piece. .44 is a cannon and the .50 is absurd, not to mention really expensive at about $1.50 a pop(at least at the range where I rented mine). My all time favorite is the rifle-like .357. Well balanced with a 6inch barrel and laser accurate. Lots of stopping power with the magnum velocity.
If you're just starting out, though, 9mm is great. Ammo is cheap, selection is wide and prices are reasonable. There's a great Czech knockoff of the glock that my buddy owns. Very nice little machine.
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Again, another round of great selections guys. I'm not opposed to revolvers, infact I welcome all suggestions. The primary reason for this gun is for range shooting. I can't keep the gun with me and it will be stored at my grandparents house. I live in an apartment complex next to my University, and one of the agreements for the lease was no handguns of any type. I can see their reasons, I suppose.
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I have a Sig P226 --- 9mm it is an excellent quality pistol, I have no complaints. I backpack with it and it is not too much weight to carry. P226 is available in several calibers, the law likes .40 now, better stopping power than the 9mm, although when I first shot some 9 mm hollow points I was amazed.
9 mm ammo is cheap enough for plinkin' and 9mm auto kick is minimal. Go out and shoot 100 rounds and you could immediately pick up and play your guitar.
U.S. Navy SEALs, Federal agents, Ohio, Texas, and Michigan sate police all use P226's to name a few.
It may be at the upper end of your budget though, I think I paid 450 or so 6 or 7 years ago. (when I could still get 15 shot clips)
>edit: I must have got a hell of a deal, sugg retail price in 2003 catalog starts at $840!
(http://www.sigarms.com/apps/cmt/img/P226TWO-TONEBIGHR.jpg)
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if it's not for protection, but for the range, I seriously advise you to go out and testdrive a .357 whereever you can rent one. Revolvers, I've found, are generally more consistent for target shooting--however, I haven't shot too many pistols that weren't owned by a range, thus being well used and equally worn.
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When you make your decision, go to holeinthewall.com
I picked up a nice Taurus .40 S&W for $401 (Back ordered, had to wait 30 days). MSRP for this pistol at the Manufacturers website was $655.
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I have used the Glock alot and im happy with it. Only jammed once due to very crappy ammo.
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I am a revolver fan... relaoading has something to do with that but they are just inherantly more versitle and accurate in centerfire. I have a lot of fairly expensive and custom handguns.. I like my kimber in .45 but... my belly gun 4 inch despured ruger in 44 mag outshot it at the range yesterday. revolvers in .357 are a good comprimise between power and size.
but.... If I had to use an autoloader... I wouldn't get the 9mm... much as I hate to admit it... the .40 is probly the best autolaoder round... slightly better than the .45 ( of which I have 3) in that it can hold more rounds and is very powerful..
now... worst of all... I will concur with dorf vader.... The witness would make a perfect first gun for a guy who had to have a high capacity autoloader for his first gun.. it is black and it is metal and it looks cool.... it is double action and 10 round capacity and it is ded reliable... Accurate... sometimes the factory sights are not right for elevation... my .45 witness shoots 12" high... had to grind down the rear sight...
but... the gun sells for about 400 something none of the others do... it is also very easy to operate and to take down and.... best of all... convert. Yep... if you make the wrond caliber choice... no big deal! You can convert it to just about any caliber you want... the kits are about 200 bucks or so and take all of 20 seconds to install and.... ta da... your wimpy 9mm is now a .40 or .45 or 10mm or even a 22 rimfire with target sights.
mine is .45 with a 22 conversion kit. The barrels use HK type rifling and the guns are very accurate for autoloaders.
still... an 8 shot .357 smith modified for full moon clips would be my choice but what do I know.. I'm a dinosour...
lazs
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I agree with Vader on the Tanfoglio. It is an outstanding and versitile pistol. I've fired the 9mm and .45...a friend has the interchange kit...it works and is great. Nice quality too. There are LOTS of nice upgrades available through the importer. BTW, I looked at the Tanfoglio website and it looks like they are now only calling the 1911 model the "Witness"...the model I fired would be called the "Combat".
Here is a link to a good review:
Tanfoglio (http://www.galleryofguns.com/shootingtimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=1)
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Some good advice here. I gotta agree w/ laz about the wheelguns. Out of the dozen or so handguns I've shot my fav is still my king cobra. .357 rounds are fairly expensive, but .38's are a little cheaper. And being able to use either is nice.
As for the tangfolglio I have to agree again. My brother had one in .40 and its by far my favorite semi-auto handgun.
If you just want a target pistol a .22 is great to have. For about $10 in ammo you can shoot all day.
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Nice rip, I was looking at the Taurus website last night, they have some very nice stuff. .22 rimfire would be a good pistol choice, because I have a .22 rimfire single shot rifle, I think it was made in late 1800's early 1900's, inherited it from my grandfather on my 16th birthday.
I've also been looking at revolvers, my aunt had a .357 8 shot revolver, said it was alot of fun, but ammo was expensive. I'm also seeking the advice of a family friend who has approximately 8 or 9 guns, not many but he has the browning 9mm and the ruger .22 I mentioned earlier. He has 2 .22 rifles, one scoped one not, a scoped AR-15, .30-30, 4 or 5 scatter guns, one of which is a sawed off riot gun. His 9mm is alot of fun to shoot, but I could see myself wanting a .40 or .45. What about .40 caliber's, should I get a revolver or a semi-auto?
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the berreta's are a very good gun,,easy to clean,,reliable and they dont kick much,,shot the 9mm and the 40cal version,,i like the 40cal my self<~~cost about the same,,,,9mm is not that cheap!!,,hehe,<~~unless you buy bulk junkie rounds which i would not recomend firing out of a nice gun:)
sigs are a good gun,,so are glocks<~~even know i hate how they feal in your hand,,lol,,feals like a plastic toy,,lol,,i like my pistols a little heavy anyways,,more accurate,,i own alot of auto hand guns,,black powder,,rifles and so fourth,im sure you would be quite happy with a 40cal berreta,,and dont worry about bullet prices,,357 is not much diffrent from the prices of a40cal or 9mm,,heck i spent 20 bucks on a box of 9mm hollow points,,and spent only 16bucks for a box of 30-40 krieg rounds,,lol,,once you get over anything bigger than a 22 your going to be paying for rounds,,lol,,even 223 rounds are getting quite spendy,,even in the cheap bulk rounds<~~like i said before,,i would not recomend them for automatic,,you will run into alot of jamming problems runing cheap rounds,,,and never use solid lead bullets!!,,make sure they have atleast a copper jacket part way up the bullet,,this will add to your barrel life
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Munkii, any way you slice it, this is the only gun suitable for your needs. Sure, it doesn't exactly qualify as a pure handgun, but I bet the fun factor will well exceed that minor flaw.
Your ideal target gun (http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn56-e.htm)
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
Munkii, any way you slice it, this is the only gun suitable for your needs. Sure, it doesn't exactly qualify as a pure handgun, but I bet the fun factor will well exceed that minor flaw.
Your ideal target gun (http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn56-e.htm)
I love it, might have a problem getting a permit for it though :D
I found a gun range in my area that rents out guns for 10.00 a pop, I think I go drop a 50 or so and try out a few different guns. I'm looking at 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP and .357/.38. I'll report back my findings after I go shoot them, probably tomorrow, and let you know what I decided. :aok
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Do Not ever buy a glock. I have owned several, and the only one that was remotley well built was the G19. I have since sold all my glocks, and purchased a few other firearms. (H&K USP .45, Kimber Gold Cup 1911, and a Serbu BFG .50 BMG). Approx 9 months ago a friend of mine had a G21 gernade in his hand, and when he researched the subject of Glock failures, he has noted that there are several gernade type failures with the Glock series pistols except the G19. Another feature that turned me off of the Glock series is the lack of an external selectable safety. There is none! Do some research before you make the decision to purchase a handgun. Some good places to go are....
http://www.sigtalk.com
http://www.glocktalk.com
http://www.1911forums.com
http://www.ar15.com (handgun forum)
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Ah, revolvers.
If you're using it for defense only, i'd say go with a revolver. There's a lot less crap on it that can break / go wrong.
And, applying murphy's law, when you need something to not break, it will.
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GLOCK G20 10mm
Terror
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Originally posted by RKBA
Do Not ever buy a glock. I have owned several ... Another feature that turned me off of the Glock series is the lack of an external selectable safety. There is none!
Somehow this story doesn't seem right. You *bought* several Glocks without first realizing that Glock has its own safety mechanism?
Next up will be the pat stories of cops shooting their own legs as they drew their firearms.
C'mon. The basic rules of firearm handling apply. If you can't manage those, any safety short of a firmly affixed trigger lock is 'unsafe.'
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Hand guns are dangerous. I only buy sniper rifles. Kids see me with my sniper rifle and shake my hand. They think Im Superman.
I bought Superman comics as a kid. Aint worth a **** for repairing washing machines that leak though. :(
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I advise an all-metal gun. The heavier the gun, the less stress on your wrists from recoil, and the easier the follow-up shots.
I felt much less perceived recoil while shooting .45 1911 than I had shooting the plastic Glock .40 and 1911 stayed on target.
miko
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has anyone given a any reasons i missed not to buy a witness over the markup heavy boys club toys?
can be upgraded/changed to fire any round mentioned so far with a barrel and magazine (save .357 and you can load the almost exactly the same with 38 super anyway) has a whole range of upgrade parts to build your pistol the way you want it.
and cost half as much on average less if you look around.
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Whatever you get, make it a Ruger :aok
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Lord Dolf Vader, remember, the more features it has, the more ***** that can go wrong.
Hence why we still use revolvers.
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I know a guy who will put together a witness conversion in .357 sig for ya.
lazs
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Do Not ever buy a glock.
well,,i dont like glock my self,,i jsut dont like how they feal,,feal cheap,,but!! you want reliablity you wont be able to beat the glock,,this from a combat handguns mag
Written by Chuck Taylor
On four occasions since 1990, I've written articles about a continuing evaluation I've been conducting to ascertain the longevity of the Glock Model 17 9mm pistol. The first of these, appearing in the February, 1993, issue of Combat Handguns, contained my findings as to the weapon's performance and durability after 33.000 rounds fired. At this juncture, I stated:
"I carried it in the rain, snow, dust and mud. I carried it when the temperatures were over 100 degrees and when they were 40 below.
"I presented the gun more than 10.000 times from it's plastic slide holster, speed loaded it 2.000 times, performed over 5.000 tactical loads, shot it weak-handed in excess of 2,500 times and field-stripped it 250 times.
"From the beginning, I resolved to grind it into the dirt, abuse it like no gun I ever had."
"Why? To find out the truth about Glocks, for once and for all...
"And I succeeded in doing just that. In a 30-month period, I fired 33.000 rounds, all factory loads, of every imaginable type made-- and it ate them all, almost without a single malfunction. I say 'almost' because on the 32,994th round, I finally had one-- a failure to feed! And this in spite of the fact that I cleaned the gun every 10.000 rounds whether it need it or not!
"100 rounds short of the 5.000th shot, both factory-provided magazines ceased to hold the slide open after the last shot, although they both continued to function normally otherwise. At round number 11.000 a second set did the same and was replaced by another.
"By the 500th holster presentation, the left side of the front site was so badly worn that a proper site picture was no longer possible. It was subsequently replaced with a steel version.
"By round number 16.000, I could see steel through the finish-- but it never did rust, although it was exposed repeatedly to rain, snow, perspiration and even blood.
"The trigger pull, originally 5.5 pounds, got smoother and a bit lighter, but it never did double or demonstrate a glitch of any kind.
"And after all this, it still shoots into 3 inches at 25 meters, not much different than when it was new."
Impressed, to say the least, I was still determined to see the test though to the point where the gun failed. So, although the piece had passed the 33.000-round mark without significant negative results or breakage, I continued the test.
The months went by and the test continued. By the end of the summer, 1993, the gun had shot 50.000 rounds without a hitch. Among my additional observations published in Glock Autopistols 1995, were these:
"And now, after 50.000 rounds, nothing has really changed. It still:
"Functions reliably. In fact, not a single additional stoppage has occurred.
"Prints inside the 9-ring of a 25-meter pistol target, exactly as it did when it was new.
"Shows no additional finish wear.
"Exhibits no bore corrosion.
"Clearly, the Glock M-17 is a heck of a pistol and, as a survival instrument, is well worthy of our consideration. It is well-designed, well-made and capable of surviving a wide variety of environmental conditions. It will feed the entire spectrum of bullet shapes and functions reliably with virtually all power levels of 9mm ammunition. In addition, it resists corrosion magnificently and its design causes minimal wear on working parts, giving it an unbelievable long service life.
"Ugly? Maybe, maybe not! It depends on what's important to you-- cosmetics, or function. Regardless, it's my opinion that the Glock 17 is not only a winner, but may well be the world's best 9mm pistol. Obviously, only time will tell, but in the meantime, I've got 25.000 more rounds of 9mm ammunition to run through it to find out."
25.000 more
And the test continued. By February, 1995, the 25.000 rounds were expended, bringing the total to an unbelievable 75.000! Yet, the gun was still going strong, showing no indications whatsoever of impending failure. I replaced nothing-- no springs, firing pins, connectors or any other parts. In fact, viewed from the broad perspective, the gun had actually outlived it's magazines-- six two-mag sets at that point.
Truthfully, I had run out of things to do to the gun. Short of running over it with a car or freezing it into a solid block of ice-- both which I regarded as silly, since they fail to mirror real-world conditions and therefore prove nothing-- I had repeatedly exposed the gun to everything. In the July, 1995, issue of Combat Handguns and Summer, 1995, issue of Glockster, I said:
"After more than 70.000 holster presentations, I can detect no additional finish wear from that which appeared by 20.000 presentations.
"The bore is still without corrosion or excessive wear; the piece still shoots inside the 9-ring of a 25-meter pistol target, using the offhand Weaver Stance. In fact, to determine if any deterioration of intrinsic accuracy had occured, I fired it from 35 meters in a Ransom Rest-- the worst groups were 2 inches!
"As an example of its practical accuracy capability, I offer the following. With the test gun, I was able to perform the following:
1. "Reliably get center-hits on a 18 x 30-inch steel silhouette target at 75 meters, knocking down five such silhouettes in under ten seconds.
2. "Take a whitetail deer with a single shot behind the shoulder at a laser-measured 70 meters.
3. "Successfully pass the ASAA Handgun Combat Master test with it, presenting it from concealed carry, shooting a score of at least 383 out of a possible 400."
My other observations at that time included:
"Internal parts exhibited no real wear or deterioration.
"The polycarbonate frame, though it had at one spot worn smooth from holster contact, appeared intact and without discernible deterioration.
"After more than 50.000 speed loads and an equal number of tactical loads, the magazine well was scarred somewhat but still serviceable.
"While the 56,103rd round blew a primer, the gun was undamaged. The resulting stoppage, a Type 3 (Feedway) was quickly cleared and the weapon returned to service.
"The trigger remained at 5.1 pounds, a reduction from it's original poundage of only 0.4 pounds. It was still smooth and had a crisp let-off.
"It was discovered that magazine service life could be dramatically increased by loading only 15, rather than the rated 17, rounds of ammunition. If a 'Plus-Two' floorplate is utilized, then-- and only then-- should a full 17 rounds be loaded. This prevents the follower spring from being fully compressed, thus causing it to soften and finally 'set', as the expression goes.
"The Trijicon (tritium) sights installed early in the test were still completely serviceable."
It looked like the test was over. The pistol had survived an incredible 75.000 rounds and was completely intact. I had my desired data-base-- the Glock M-17 was irrefutably a terrific pistol. In fact, I was so impressed that I concluded my article in Combat Handguns with this statement:
"Pretty, it ain't, especially after all it's been through. On the other hand, beauty is said to be in the eye of the beholder, and to me, the Glock is a tool, not an objet d'art. This being the case, we must view it differently-- function, not aesthetics, is the prime criteria. Viewed from this perspective, there can be no doubt that the Glock M-17 looks mighty good indeed."
Well, I just couldn't leave it alone. My curiosity about just how long the gun could survive continued to be intense. So, from my stores, I broke out an additional 25.000 rounds of assorted 9mm ammo and continued the test.
And now, the fall of 1995, after having fired a total of 100.000 rounds of virtually all kinds of ammunition...
Nothing has changed! The gun looks the same, feels the same, functions the same as it did before. I've done everything within reason to this gun. I've carried it all over the world, quite literally in every environmental condition known to man-- the steaming jungles of Latin America, the windblown deserts of the southwestern U.S., the 40-below zero tundra of Alaska in the winter.
And it worked-- every time. In fact, since I discovered that loading 15, rather than the rated 17, rounds into the magazine prevented the follower spring from softening, I haven't had a single malfunction. Both magazines used in this last 25.000 portion of my test remain strong and completely serviceable. And, by way of confirmation, I replaced the old springs in the magazines that failed during the test with new ones from Glock, and they, too, function perfectly.
I am especially impressed by the lack of apparent finish wear, even after over 100.000 holster presentations. The gun looks exactly as it did at 20.000! I've actually worn out several holsters, finally selecting the M-D Labs "Thunderbolt" (which I codesigned with M-D honcho Kevin McClung) and matching mag carrier as the best. It's super-fast, yet secure and highly concealable, and being made of Kydex, it's by far the toughest rig now in existence.
i dont like glock my self,,but thats a impressive number of rounds with out damage to the gun,,100,000 wow
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I've shot Glock 9mm and .45, both regular and compensated, and liked them a lot. I'm shot a Sig 9mm (don't know what the model is), and hated it every bit ... the thing jammed on every 3rd bullet, and that's without the rapid fire. My suggestion is go to the range, rent a couple of guns, and see what you like the best.
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The thing about glocks is that you either have a good one, or a bad one.
And there's no apparent difference until the moment it breaks.
This applies to a lot of other guns too. It's just that the glock has a lot more that break.
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Originally posted by Stoned Gecko
I've shot Glock 9mm and .45, both regular and compensated, and liked them a lot. I'm shot a Sig 9mm (don't know what the model is), and hated it every bit ... the thing jammed on every 3rd bullet, and that's without the rapid fire. My suggestion is go to the range, rent a couple of guns, and see what you like the best.
That's odd, and very possibly a fault in the ammo. Sigs are some of the best handguns there are, in my opinion. My dad owns a p229 and the thing is a work of art. Tight tolerances, well-balanced, accurate and solid as a brick. They're expensive, of course, but they're worth it.
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im happy with most handguns,,only lorson makes a some what cheap and fall apart automatic i seen,,berreta,,ruger,,colt,,glock,,sig,,all make very nice handguns that you would be happy with
http://www.magnumresearch.com/BFR.asp <~~now this is a powerfull hand gun,matter of fact the most powerfull production handgun made,,45/70 goverment round,,ouch:)
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My pistol of choice is the .45 H&K USP. Also chambered for 9mm and .40.
http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/civilian/handguns/usp.html
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i have read that 38 super can be handloaded to a hair of .357 power is 357 sig similar ?
and anyone own a 10mm can it be loaded down to .40 ballistics?
how much recoil did you feel out of the 10mm. enough to shake you up or just alot.
from all i have seen 10mm is the best on paper as a all around cartrige (price excluded). just dont know about the recoil seems everyone mentions it in reviews.
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Well I test fired 3 guns yesterday, a Baretta 92F, a Taurus .40, and a Glock 17. I must say the .40 had a larger kick than I expected at first, but my groupings were pretty close. I liked the 9mm better though, it had a decent recoil, but enough of a punch in the target that it would probably work for killing the only thing I've ever shot with a pistol, turtles.
I've decided on 9mm, but now to figure out which gun. :)
(I had 5 1st place medals for JROTC marksman competitions from high school, but I had horrible target placement at 50yards with the pistols, they were grouped close, just way off center. I could consistantly hit at least 1 bullseye and 2 or 3 out of 5 shots in the inner ring on the targets at 100 yards with a pellet rifle in high school.)
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I believe in the 45 ACP .
Big bullett make big hole pretty simple there.
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After all the talk about the "E" model Glocks, I had to go back and check mine. It's a "B". Haven't heard anything bad about that series, but if anyone else has, feel free to spill it.
Stopped by the gun store today on my way home to see what they had in a model easier to carry. Looked at a Taurus, Cole(?) (not a colt), another one that I can't recall but looked like a direct copy of a Glock, and a Walther PPKS. Out of the bunch, the Walther kept drawing my attention. The smaller Glocks just felt clunky. If I have time this weekend, I'm going to go out and rent a few to see how they feel.
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The walther ppks is a fine weapon.
had one in the 380cal and loved it .
it never jammed no matter how fouled it became.
Great little gun.
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AK47- when you absolutly, positivly gotta kill everybody in the room....accept no substitutes:aok
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I have a ppk in stainless. Nice gun. Mine is in 32 since it has one round more than the .380 and I believe the .32 is more accurate. I use hydrashoks in it.
lazs
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I nevered owned one, but I really liked the feel of the Sig P238, (think thats the number) which is basically a slightly redesigned PPK. It was pretty expensive though.