Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: gofaster on February 09, 2004, 09:29:14 AM
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I just hope the mechanicals and workmanship live up to the styling.
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20040203/mdf463856.jpg)
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I've yet to see the SVT model, but it may be a "Bimmer Killer".
Something about 390 HP (Projected SVT HP version, with turbo) would force me to sell. :)
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BMW engineering or Ford engineering... now there's a choice.
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Good point Dowding.
On that note, I've had nothing but extreme reliability with Ford products, however they've only been limited to trucks and I have owned 3 (1980 F150, 1991 F150, 1997 F250) My previous experience with Ford autos have been with cars all over 100,000 miles on them, so they required wear out items such as fuel pumps, water pumps etc.
The cost of dealership repair (Ford Dealer vs BMW) in this area is $1. ($79 an hour vs $80 an hour) and BMW parts cost an average of 20% more than standard American automobile manufacturer parts.
But, the deciding question will be whether or not the Cobra SVT will have the independant rear suspension rather than the "log" axle. Nothing beats corning in a BMW IMO (Its what sold me on the car), maybe the SVT can be a contender...?
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Fastforward Fastback (http://66.139.75.240/photos-after.html)
Coolest mustang on the planet!
(http://66.139.75.240/images/photos/poster_th.jpg)
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FWIW my boring 1996 Taurus GL, which had 36,000 miles on it when we bought it, now has 102,000. The only things I've had done besides oil changes were : change brake rotors (done myself) do fix rotor warpage and shudder (50,000 miles) and just recently had the 100,000 mile tuneup and an emission repair (o2 sensor, other sensors, vairous bits and pieces for 100,000 mile tuneup) done at a cost of 600 bucks +/-.
Not bad for 66,000 miles.
The only real problem has been a crappily designed defroster that at times is utterly NOT up to the task of damp NW winters. Which apparently has not been fixed, as a friend just bought a 2002, and it has a similar problem. :rolleyes:
All in all, pretty happy with my experience with ford products.
BB
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I've yet to see the SVT model, but it may be a "Bimmer Killer".
Something about 390 HP (Projected SVT HP version, with turbo) would force me to sell. :)
That's funny, they already have a 390 hp, S.C. 4.6L DOHC, IRS, Cobra... want to sell your bimmer cheap?
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Originally posted by Munkii
That's funny, they already have a 390 hp, S.C. 4.6L DOHC, IRS, Cobra... want to sell your bimmer cheap?
But not with the 2005 body style. Thats yet to be announced.
BMW is the best for having the lowest depreciation , so to answer your question, no, I do not want to sell it cheap. :)
Mercedes loses top resale spot
BMW now best in retained value, new data show; Honda leads non-luxury brands.
November 11, 2003: 2:49 PM EST
By Chris Isidore, CNN/Money Senior Writer
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Mercedes Benz is losing its first place ranking as the car model retaining the greatest percentage of its value over time, according to the firm which tracks that data for the industry.
The 2004 models of the German-made luxury car brand are expected to retain 52 percent of their value after a three-year lease, according to Automotive Lease Guide, the firm whose data is used by lenders and automakers. That's down from an expected retained value of 54.5 percent a year ago. That 52 percent value retention gives Mercedes a sixth-place ranking among brands overall.
Moving into first place in the rankings is rival German automaker BMW, which is now expected to retain 54.5 percent after three years, up from 52.8 percent a year ago. Next on the list is the best ranking for a non-luxury brand, Honda, which is expected to retain 53.7 percent after three years, up from 49.7 percent a year ago.
The brand with the lowest anticipated retained value is Oldsmobile, which General Motors has already announced it plans to discontinue with this model year. The 2004 Olds are expected to retain only 31.9 percent of their value, down slightly from the 32.1 percent figure from a year earlier. Korean automaker Kia moved out of last place by having its anticipated retained value rise to 35.1 percent from 31.9 percent a year ago.
The retained value estimates try to gauge how much the vehicle will fetch at auction when it comes off a lease compared to its original sticker price. While that figure has a signficant impact on the retail price for the used vehicle, buyers are likely to find prices about 10 percent higher when shopping for a used vehicle from a dealer.
The single vehicle that has the best estimated retained value is BMW's Cooper Mini, which is expected to hold 62 percent of its value after three years. The 2004 vehicle expected to hold onto the the lowest percentage of its value is the Kia Rio, expected to be worth only 27 percent of today's price in three years.
A spokeswoman for Mercedes, a unit of DaimlerChrysler AG (DCX: Research, Estimates), said the company is not overly concerned with losing the top ranking. Donna Boland said Mercedes own estimates show somewhat better retained valued for its leased vehicles, and that its sales of used Mercedes is up 20 percent from a year ago.
"Our residuals are still among the highest in industry and business is better than it's ever been," said Boland.
ALG President Raj Sundaram said that the relative age of the Mercedes line up of 2004 models, coupled with recently declining sales numbers of older model Mercedes, is what led to the German automaker's decline in the rankings. He agreed with Boland's comment about Mercedes' relative strength.
"This residual that Mercedes has, a lot of other brands would love to have it," Sundaram said.
The strong resale data for BMW's and Hondas coming off lease, coupled with new product offerings from those automakers, helped lift those models to the top spots among luxury and non-luxury models.
Honda has been able to show strong results across a range of products, Sundaram said, having the best retained value for four classes of vehicles -- midsize sedans, minivans, compact sport/utility vehicles and crossover vehicles.
Imports dominated the top performers on the list. DaimlerChrysler's Jeep, which is expected to retain 44.2 percent of its value, and Ford, which is expected to retain 42.1 percent of its value, are the only brands from the traditional Big Three topping the industry average for its class.
Overall non-luxury brands are expected to retain 42 percent of value after three years, up slightly from 41.8 percent average a year ago, while luxury brands are expected to hold onto 49 percent of value, up from 48.7 percent a year earlier.
General Motor Corp.'s (GM: Research, Estimates) Cadillac showed almost the best improvement of any brand. It is now expected to retain 45.6 percent of its value after three years, which while trailing the luxury brand average, is up from its 40.7 percent retained value a year ago. The only brand to show better improvement was Nissan's Infiniti brand, which jumped to 51.1 percent retained value expected for its 2004 models, compared to only 45.1 percent a year ago.
Sundaram said that while the Big Three trail the imports in retained value, the success of Cadillac and Ford, the latter having a new F-150 pickup truck and a new minivan to lift its numbers this year, gives some hope for Detroit. "The domestics are about to launch a ton of new vehicles in the next couple of years," he said. "This is their opportunity to try to bridge this gap."
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Well, I drive a 1996 Fiat. It's crap, but has done 70,000 miles with only new tires and oil and a wiper motor and brake pads. I guess I was very lucky.
I've never been in a Ford that came close to the build quality of a BMW, but it is hard to compare like for like - they build for different markets apart from the new Mini which does compete with Ford's hatch-back models. Aston Martins contain Ford components and they have a really bad interior apparently, but are said to be improving.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
But not with the 2005 body style. Thats yet to be announced.
BMW is the best for having the lowest depreciation , so to answer your question, no, I do not want to sell it cheap. :)
Actually there will be more than 390hp with the new Cobra, probably closer to 450. The Cobra has been squarely aimed at the C6, and will not come to bat with just 390hp.
About the bimmer.. fine I didn't want it anyway, if I were going to spend that much money on a car it would be an E55 anyways. :p
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Live axle, dealbreaker.
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Originally posted by Dowding
I've never been in a Ford that came close to the build quality of a BMW, but it is hard to compare like for like - they build for different markets apart from the new Mini which does compete with Ford's hatch-back models. Aston Martins contain Ford components and they have a really bad interior apparently, but are said to be improving.
Very true, however people tend to catagorized whats more important to them personally, be it build quality, reliability, style, cost, cost to operate. Thats why we drive what we drive.
That said, when I did drive ford autos, they were reasonably reliable and I drove them for the purpose of
A) its what was within my budget and
B) it was a reliable model (as researched at the time of purchase, historically speaking)
I measure an automobiles reliability by hundreds of thousands miles, ie, if you get 125,000 miles out of a car without having to rebuild the engine, or repair a timing chain, then I consider it reliable. (I might add, at 122,000 miles, is where one could begin discounting an avg. of 5 cents per mile when deciding milege depreciation)
The U.S. is a vast country, where avg., typical commutes are 40 miles +. Thats why I choose to rank "reliability" up there.
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Live axle, dealbreaker.
Actually, if what I read was correct. The GT will have the independent rear suspension (similar to the current Cobra's), while the base model (v6) will continue with the older design live axle.
And the engine output is suppose to be way up compared to the older models as well.
I will say that my 1995 Mustang GT which has about 80k on it now, has been utterly reliable and a very nice car to own.
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Hmm if they can put IRS on it without charging an arm and a leg (e.g. current Cobra) then I would definitely test drive one next time I'm shopping.
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Originally posted by Vermillion
Actually, if what I read was correct. The GT will have the independent rear suspension (similar to the current Cobra's), while the base model (v6) will continue with the older design live axle.
Not according to Car and Driver, whether thats a reliable source or not, I would question.
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Originally posted by Munkii
Actually there will be more than 390hp with the new Cobra, probably closer to 450. The Cobra has been squarely aimed at the C6, and will not come to bat with just 390hp.
Good point. The 2005 vette is checking in at the scales with 400 hp, although these cars really have never met head to head in marketing ploys...the Cobra could be seen as "a contender" if they ever get their hp as well as the suspensions up to par with that of a corvette, but then you'd be adding another $10,000 to the price tag too. They aim for different markets.
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A revamped Mustang, yes.
An M car killer, no.
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Rip, I read that information on a CNN story about the new Mustang, but whether thats reliable or not..... well ;) its CNN so it MUST be true LOL!
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Originally posted by Vermillion
Rip, I read that information on a CNN story about the new Mustang, but whether thats reliable or not..... well ;) its CNN so it MUST be true LOL!
LOL Verm. Car and Driver isn't exactly stellar when they post information either. ;)
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dbl post.
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Rip... you could have bought a mustang with IRS for a long time now... 500hp+ mustangs can be bought from the dealer for about the same as a BMW and will handle better than you are capable of driving.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Rip... you could have bought a mustang with IRS for a long time now... 500hp+ mustangs can be bought from the dealer for about the same as a BMW and will handle better than you are capable of driving.
lazs
Lazs,
The very first car I test drove was a 2001 SVT cobra. Unfortunately, it did not meet the requirements I had at that time. Hell it was even $2000 cheaper than my 330Ci I ended up getting.
~Back seat is really just a pretty picture, unusable (I need this for my kids, I'm hoping that they improve the back seats in the 2005 models)
~No head room. My head RESTED on the B-pillar above the window. Very dangerous situation if one was T-Boned, it would kill ya instantly (I'm 6'1", and even with the seat reclined, it STILL rested against the frame)
~Handling. After driving a friends BMW, it just wasn't the same...
~Gas Milege. I needed something with 25 mpg or better due to my commute (85 miles R/T each day)
However, we soon moving again, so I'll be traveling 30 miles R/T so gas milege isn't important anymore. Again, I'm wishing they improve the back seat distance so at LEAST you can squeeze a young kid back there. With an independant rear suspension that promises to be on the SVT Cobra in 2005, it could be close to the suspension on modern cars, instead of the log-style axle.
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BMW is due to bring back the m6 sometime this year.
5.5 liter, v-10 with about 530 Horsepower, normally aspirated.
I shutter to think what will happen once the tuners get their hands on this thing. It's going to be about 4 times as expensive as a mustang, but still cheaper than a porsche or a ferrari.
here's a photo. I hope somebody out there can read German because I can't:
2005 m6 (http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000147571.cfm)
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I saw the new 6 at tyhe Philly Auto Show last week... I was not impressed. I think the thing looks like a depressed porpoise with wheels.
Im anxious to see what the the rumored M4 will bring to the table.
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Hey Mike.A co worker went to that show.He said that car looked fantastic.I agree.Its got a good look to it.:)
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Howdy Doc.
I guess its a love it or hate it kind of thing. The new Z4 for example? I cant stand it. But the old M Coupe (clown shoe car) I love. :D
So many cars, so little money.
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What I don't understand is why the thing has to weigh almost 3500 lbs, for what is basically a two seater.
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Originally posted by Dowding
BMW engineering or Ford engineering... now there's a choice.
Actually, there's an interesting story there. As Japan began moving to high industrial capacity, they had trouble with quality control. So, they hired an American statistician by the name of Demming -- sorry, don't recall his first name.
Anyway, they used his methods to insure greater quality control. Today, the highest industrial award given in Japan is called the "Demming Award."
In the 70s, Ford (in particular, but all American auto companies really) had major quality control problems, so they employed Demming to give them a hand. He instituted the same controls that had worked in Japan. Instant success --- Ford had a long string of successes with using his methods.
In a nutshell, the Demming philosophy is this: it's less expensive to use the highest quality material available.
I would expect BMWs to have superior (compared to Ford) engineering solutions for automotive problems. But, I would expect Ford to produce a higher quality product.
curly
edit: W. Edwards Deming. Deming was a "revered master" in Japan.
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Thats easy Funked, it doesn use t3h c4rb0n f1b3r!!!!!seventeen
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Thats easy Funked, it doesn use t3h c4rb0n f1b3r!!!!!seventeen
LOL!
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hmmm, a 540hp GT500? That would be sweet :)
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mmmmmmmmm, Elinor.
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but this one is still the best!
(http://66.139.75.240/images/photos/poster_th.jpg)
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Originally posted by BEVO
but this one is still the best!
(http://66.139.75.240/images/photos/poster_th.jpg)
No doubt. My favorite year, color and model. :aok :aok :aok
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What's with the ghetto rims?
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Im anxious to see what the the rumored M4 will bring to the table.
The drawings and 3d mockups of the M4 look pretty neat. Only wish it didn't say 2008 at top of the page.
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4
(http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/44196.jpg)
(http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/44197.jpg)
(http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/44199.jpg)
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It looks Bangled. :(
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Originally posted by AKcurly
In a nutshell, the Demming philosophy is this: it's less expensive to use the highest quality material available.
GM took the opposite approach. In the '80s they went with the least-cost parts suppliers and nearly killed themselves with shoddy parts and unhappy customers.
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Is dose spinnas? Gotsa get me somadose. Theys tiyight!
-SW