Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: VWE on February 11, 2004, 03:24:22 PM
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So... will we see shadows lurking below the water line in AHII? :aok
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LMAO! What a great idea. It would be hard to pull off well though.
Submarines were hard to pilot.
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U-boats were talked about for AHI so if they are going to include fluid dynamics in AHII periscope hunting may be a new twist thrown into the mix. (http://www.silenthunterii.com/screenshots/22.jpg)
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I think we still have to perk em....
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Yes, I guess they should be launchable from a port, with spawns spread around. Perk GV's or so.
Plus the standard submarines rules would apply.
I.E. They can only spend roughly 1 hour underwater. They are 2x slower underwater. Torpedos would be hard to aim with.
But then you'd have to incorporate depth charges, porcupines and engine toggle with a listening station.
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Yeah, but you put them into the game at what ever cost and they will be used... I've got so many unused vehicle perkies. And I'd like some AAA guns and a single 5" deck gun! :D
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As long as the CVs are racing around at 50 knots it going to be difficult to attack them with 15/7 knot subs with 40/30 knot torpedos.
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If they put subs in AHII am there dude!
You can call me Frigatten Kapitaen Glassoid then :D
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Subs were quite speedy, on the surface.
They engine used up a lot of oxygen. So the hatches needed to be open.
So when they dived they switched to battery operated engines. Much less more powerful, much quieter, but it got the job done.
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Subs were not speedy on the surface. I thought they were slower than practically every military surface vessel afloat. They could only keep up with your slower merchant vessels.
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IF they have subs, they need to have large transport CVs because with the limited CV groups now I would think it would be a long time till you actually see the enemy.
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Well seeing as we like to place late war items before early war items lets have the type XXI (http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/11/detail_uboot_xxi.htm)
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Typical German/US sub: 18 knots on surface, 5-7 knots submerged.
Mid war German subs could draw air through a special device (schnorkel) wich enabled them to cruise with diesel engines at periscope depth.
Late war German Uber-subs could go underwater with 16 kts for some hours
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That pic of your could be very well Aces high vwe, it really looks the same!
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Originally posted by Dowding
Subs were not speedy on the surface. I thought they were slower than practically every military surface vessel afloat. They could only keep up with your slower merchant vessels.
The German subs could do up to 18 knots on the surface, and the better US subs up to 21. Back when I owned "Aces of the Deep", I once caught a convoys escort of two 14 knot corvettes spread out far enough that I surfaced and ran full out for the convoy, dodging shellfire (this was daytime) all the way.
The US subs would use their speed in conjunction with excellent radar to do end runs around Japanese convoys, submerging and waiting in their paths. The Germans would do same thing as a part of coordinated wolfpack tactics.
Hmm, supply convoys....mwaahaahaahaa! Can anyone say, North Africa-Med arena?
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Originally posted by Glasses
If they put subs in AHII am there dude!
Cuidado con las cargas de profundidad. Creo que son bastante desagradables.
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Rofl on your signature :lol
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Originally posted by Dowding
Subs were not speedy on the surface. I thought they were slower than practically every military surface vessel afloat. They could only keep up with your slower merchant vessels.
Actually, U-Boot were quite speedy on the surface. With their 16-17Kts they were much faster than merchant vessels (about 7-8Kts average cruise speed) and as fast as "Flower" class Corvettes (and there were *a lot* of them in escort groups).
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We have either 2 options: Or Hitech enables subs and slows down our fleet or there will be no subs at all.
(I mean, the fleet almost cruises as fast as a torpedo!!!)
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That's why you sorta wait for the fleet to come to you
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You'll first need to know where it's headed tho
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Subs? 5 to 7 knots submerged? (yawn)
Better Aces High stick to its origins and first add more of the many deserving additional aircraft that need to be added, then refine existing surface ship capabilities, then add more ground vehicles, then consider a new dimension like subsurface craft.
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Originally posted by frank3
You'll first need to know where it's headed tho
You could maybe work with AI convoy lanes, sort of like how we use Trains and Barges (and trucks) in the current game. They could be tied to strat, and you could then effectively "lay in wait" for them.
That would also give bombers a good excuse to patrol the lanes :)
-Sik
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You'd immediately get bombers patrolling the spawn point tho. I figur it takes awhile for a sub to submerge so a bomber can easily spawn kill em all!
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randomize the spawn point a bit and/or spawn at a depth of about 75 meters.
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Or have some 37mm AA on it :)
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Here is my post about subs (Since I spent a large portion of my 5th quarter in college playing Silent Hunter to kill a 4 hour class gap on Tuesdays)
Ironically, the first US submarine of the war (S-Class) was also the fastest U.S. submarine for submerged operations, with a top submerged speed of 11 knots. Originally designed as an interdictor submarine during World War I, the theory was to use this superior submerged speed to overrun German U-boats. This was hardly the case however, but the S-class was kept in the interim period between wars due to a lack of anything better. However, the S-class' only advantage was its submerged speed, its drawbacks included the fact that it only carried 12 torpedoes, it could only fire the older Mk10 steam torpedo, its slow surface speed of 14.5 knots, its puny 4 inch deck gun, and the cramped accomodations for the crew.
After Pearl, the U.S. began employing submarines developed during the period when people began believing that war was imminent. The submarine classes namely were the Salmon, T, P, and Barracuda classes. The latter ships were used only as training vessels. The P class however was the earliest pre-cursors to the famous Gato class, and boasted some inprovements over the S-Class, namely welded construction (as opposed to riveting), air conditioning, and additional aft torpedo tube, and an increase of surface speed to 19 knots. However, the deck gun caliber remained at 4" and maximum submerged speed was only 8 knots.
The Salmon class was a go-between in terms of the T and P classes, with 4 torpedo tubes fore and aft and a total of 20 torpedoes. The Salmon's speed was identical to that of the T class except that the Salmon could go .25 knots faster submerged. However, the Salmon had a submerged cruising range of 80 miles, far superior to the T (60 miles) and P classes. One fatal flaw of the Salmon class the cost the live of one submarine, the Squalus, was a faulty hatch covering the main diesel induction. The hatch also failed on at least two other submarines of this class.
The T class (which, incidentally, was the class which the Tautog belonged to. The Tautog had 26 sinkings, the most of an U.S. submarine during the war) was nearly identical to the P class, except that surface speed and submerged speed were increased to 20 knots and 8.75 knots, respectively, two more torpedo tubes were added both fore and aft, number of torpedoes increased by eight to a total of 24, and the deck gun caliber was increased to 5 inches.
My personal favorite of the war was the Narwhal class. The massive "submarine cruisers" were based on the U-boat "milch cows," and the U.S. had only two - the Narwhal and the Nautilus. Modified from the Argonaut mine-laying submarine design, these subs had 4 tubes forward and only two aft, but carried a massive 26 torpedoes, mostly to resupply other subs at sea (in theory). On the surface they were armed with twin 6" deck guns, and could make an impressive 17 knots despite the fact the ship only had one diesel engine (all other subs had at least two, later in the war four became standard). However, the subs were mainly used to transport guerillas, commandoes, and coast watchers, and between the two ships of the class managed to sink 11 Japanese ships.
The Gato, Balao, and Tench classes are so identical that I will only go into detail about the Gato class. The first truly "fleet" submarine, the Gato had a total of four diesel engines and four electric motors, for a maximum speed of 20.75 knots surfaced and 8.75 knots submerged. The submarine was the first class with ten torpedo tubes, six forward and four aft, and carried 24 torpedoes. The Gato class had a maximum surface range of nearly 12,000 miles, and a submerged range of nearly 100 miles. It was of all welded construction with a crush depth of 750 feet, making dives to 300 - 400 common practice (since the Japanese were under the mistaken impression that no sub could survive a dive under 250 feet). The only drawback to the Gato was the fact that it only had a 4" deck gun. 185 submarines total of these three classes (Gato, Balao, Tench) saw service in World War II. The top three submarines in terms of tonnage were all Gato class, totalling nearly 300,000 tons sunk in between them.
This is just a basic idea of U.S. subs in World War II, and is by no means meant to be a total analysis. If there are any questions about anything I asked or didn't ask, feel free to ask me.
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Originally posted by Rasker
Hmm, supply convoys....mwaahaahaahaa! Can anyone say, North Africa-Med arena?
Heck, why not just have a North Atlantic map? The only bases would be escort carriers (for one side) and the other would have subs.
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If subs were incorporated into AH, there would be nothing to beat the late German subs.
Either the ones running with diesel while at periscope depth or the super last ones cruising up to 600 feet down at 16 knots.
With spawn points,those would be a significantly more threat than ever PT boats with their spawns.
Add to that the possibility of sound-homing torps, torps that zig-zag, or an impressive systematic spread of 10-12 electrical torps that show no bubble trail, and by then subs or their ordnance would have to be perked!
Well,maybe about time to go working on it HTC :D
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Originally posted by AdmRose
Heck, why not just have a North Atlantic map? The only bases would be escort carriers (for one side) and the other would have subs.
North Africa/Med would be so interesting because of the dynamic of North/South Axis Convoys and East/West Allied Convoys with Malta in the middle. I just purchased Thunder at Sea naval campaign game which uses the updated Fighting Steel to fight actual battles. And playing either side in the Med campaign is guaranteed riveting.
A North Atlantic arena covering the British Isles and say French and Norwegian coasts might be doable, if only two countires are involved. Could have abstract Axis air search, with randomized air and sub reports, and uboat spawn points every 50 miles or so in the convoy lanes (and limit to # of subs from each point). There'd also be Allied air patrols with say Bostons in coastal areas and perhaps B17's going farther out. Convoys could be directed by the server and hunter-killer groups by players and individual ships and aircraft by players. Ah well, we can dream :)