Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kweassa on February 13, 2004, 02:35:20 AM

Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Kweassa on February 13, 2004, 02:35:20 AM: (http://org.fighters.co.kr:9000/caribbean/old_gallery/upload/21171107112710620040213172405.jpg)

Priller's last 190, I presume?

Finished only the basic colors, and preliminary rivet/panel lines on the fuselage. The wing's need a paint job.

It's pretty good to know that the 190D is pretty much straight forward to work with. Mmmm..
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Kweassa on February 13, 2004, 02:41:05 AM: Btw, do you happen to have a detailed profile of Luftwaffe pilot uniform/gear in the late stages of the war? The "Dude" I'm using is dressed in the early pilot gear with only a life vest and chute on the Officer's uniform.

ps) HTC! When's the wheel gonna be fixed!!! :(
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Wilbus on February 13, 2004, 03:26:33 AM: Looks nice Kweassa, I always appriciate it when somebody does something nice to my Wurgers :)

Will try and skin some my self later, I most likely suck :D

Here you go!

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_267_1076664188.jpg)

And Here!

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_267_1076664149.jpg)

The reason the pictures look a little bent in the edges is that I took em with my new digital camera (love it!!) and the pages weren't flat, I can scan them if you require it to be totally flat, let me know.

Pictures are from the book "Focke Wulf Fw-190 Aces of the Western Front".

The All black leather uniform is in my opinion THE Coolest looking Uniform in any military I've ever seen, awsome looking!
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Wmaker on February 13, 2004, 08:14:06 AM: Yaaay!!!! :D

Thank you Kweassa!! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! :D

The reason I wanted to see that particular paint scheme is the character Priller was and I think that scheme looks damn cool!

Most other Doras look very dark and dull. Along the default Barkhorn's Dora we have in AH and the JV 44 schemes I think this is the coolest Dora scheme. :)

Thanks again! :)

And thanks Wilbus for those pilot pics...I agree with you on the all-leather flying suit! :)
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Kweassa on February 13, 2004, 08:00:44 PM: The black leather two-piece is indeed, inspiring..in a sort of Darth Vader kind of way.. :D
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Wmaker on February 13, 2004, 08:07:57 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
...Darth Vader kind of way.. :D

Again, exactly that came to my mind!!! :D :D
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Wilbus on February 13, 2004, 08:24:07 PM: Yep same here! Star Wars Episode 4, Tie Fighter pilots! :D
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: BenDover on February 13, 2004, 10:51:57 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Wmaker
Again, exactly that came to my mind!!! :D :D

I thought he looked more like a gimp...
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: frank3 on February 14, 2004, 08:37:35 AM: Wilbus. That Darth Vader guy, what is he? Just an fighter pilot? or for jet fighters?
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Wilbus on February 14, 2004, 08:54:23 AM: I'd say both Frank, haven't found anything that states it's just for Jet's so it's almost certainly for all Fighter pilots.

Can't stop looking at it, so freaking awsome!
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Wilbus on February 14, 2004, 08:54:36 AM: I'd say both Frank, haven't found anything that states it's just for Jet's so it's almost certainly for all Fighter pilots.

Can't stop looking at it, so freaking awsome!
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Wilbus on February 14, 2004, 08:54:54 AM: I'd say both Frank, haven't found anything that states it's just for Jet's so it's almost certainly for all Fighter pilots.

Can't stop looking at it, so freaking awsome!
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Kweassa on February 14, 2004, 06:38:56 PM: (http://org.fighters.co.kr:9000/caribbean/old_gallery/upload/21171107112710620040215091610.jpg)

Latest update.

The adjustments to the rivets and panel lines are finished. Basic colors on the wings are finished. Most of the markings are now in place.

I'm trying to find an acceptable workaround symbol that'd replace the Nazi swastika. In an artistic point of view, leaving a large blank area in the vertcial stabs of German planes, just doesn't look right.

I'm hoping if anyone official can comment on this.
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Replicant on February 14, 2004, 07:08:41 PM: I'm not sure if I like the swastika workaround, not that it looks like a swastika, just that it doesn't look right. (I thought it was a four leaf clover to start off with! :)) It's a catch 22, without swastika it's not accurate but with workaround it's not accurate! :)
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Wmaker on February 15, 2004, 09:02:15 AM: Looking great Kweassa!! :D

About the swastika workaround. I think that's the best looking workaround I've yet seen.

But personally I still prefer the blank approach. The reason for this is that tail without the swastika doesn't really draw one's attention to it but it if there is something in the tail that wasn't there originally it will draw attention it really makes it disturbing IMO.

This of course just how I see it. And I agree what ever decision you make. :)

I can't speak for HTC but at least in WarBirds 2.0 back when Hitech and Pyro were developing it german planes had a simple cross in the tail which was rotated so that the members of the cross were in 45 degree angle. So in that light I'm willing to bet that workarounds may be accepted.
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: lucull on February 15, 2004, 10:42:15 AM: Just for your info, this symbol would be illegal too. :rolleyes:
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: GScholz on February 15, 2004, 12:11:20 PM: Why?

My German is so shoddy that I will have to ask you to translate please:

Quote
Achtung Hakenkreuze!

Die auf diesen Seiten gezeigten Abbildungen dienen ausschließlich zu Zwecken der staatsbürgerlichen Aufklärung, der Abwehr verfassungswidriger und verfassungsfeindlicher Bestrebungen, der Aufklärung oder Berichterstattung über die Vorgänge des Zeitgeschehens oder der militärhistorischen und wissenschaftlichen Forschung (§86 und §86a StGB). Wer diese Abbildungen herunterlädt oder kopiert, verpflichtet sich hiermit, dieselben nur für o.a. Zwecke zu erwerben und in keiner Weise propagandistisch im Sinne des §86 und §86a StGB zu benutzen!

To my understanding German law bans the use of the Swastika, but that an exception is made for where it is used in a historical context.
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: lucull on February 15, 2004, 02:01:04 PM: Historical context is not enough.

The 2 exceptions are:

1. For historical ducumentation -> a computer game is no historical documentation
2. In a critical context -> not the case here, too

Conclusion, german players would risk to pay a fine or up to 3 years prison downloading the game.

This german law is very clear in what is allowed and what not and it includes any modifications of the swastika and symbols of forbidden organisations (SS, SA, ...), which people can recognize as swastika/symbol modification.

On the other hand, the swastika is one of the oldest symbols of human mankind and it's a shame that the Nazis misused it.

Germany is also not the only country where the swastika is forbidden.

Also, the allies have forbidden it in Germany in 1945.

If you click on the link you get an overview of forbidden symbols: http://www.rechts-nein-danke.de/kennzeichen.html
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: straffo on February 15, 2004, 02:21:51 PM: Kweassa having a rotated version of the Ukrainska Natsionalna Asamblea is exactly like the Nazi symbol.

I won't ever fly a plane with such a label.

http://www.una-unso.org/av/index.asp

I'm sorry if I sound harsh :(
Afterthought you were perhaps just trying to find an correct way to circumvant a problem for you.

The only problem is that some Neo-Nazi have worked to circumvant this laws before you.
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: GScholz on February 15, 2004, 04:06:42 PM: Thanks Lucull for clearing that up, my German is good enough to understand most of everyday conversations, but German "legalese" is beyond my comprehension.

The Iron Cross (Eisernes Kreuz) is not illegal according to that page you linked. It is also the emblem of the modern Luftwaffe, so it is appropriate.

(http://airshow.topcities.com/luftwaffe_tornado/images/blue_lightning_04.jpg)

(http://www.alma312.de/Spezial/BlueLightning/left.jpg)

I think the Iron Cross might be a very good substitute tail marking for AH LW planes.
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: BenDover on February 15, 2004, 04:14:33 PM: Quote
Originally posted by lucull

If you click on the link you get an overview of forbidden symbols: http://www.rechts-nein-danke.de/kennzeichen.html

**** ME THATS ALOT OF SYMBOLS!!:eek:
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: lucull on February 15, 2004, 05:21:23 PM: Yepp, because under the Nazis everything was organized in a organization... everything.
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Kweassa on February 15, 2004, 09:06:14 PM: I appreciate your inputs guys, and straffo, don't worry, it wasn't harsh. In fact, it's exactly the kind of input I needed ;) The sight for banned symbols is very useful, too. Thanks for the links.

Sheesh, those modern day Nazis worked on almost every variation there is possible, seems really can't use anything that even remotely resembles a black cruciform figure with white trims.

Also, the modern-day Luftwaffe symbol seems to be considered illegal too, according to the linked pages.

"Eisernes Kreuz - Das Zurschaustellen des Eisernen Kreuzes ohne Hakenkreuz, ist seit 1957 straffrei. ??

Gscholz, now it actually looks like the black Aces of Spades might be the only cool lookin' option that's left to me!
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: GScholz on February 15, 2004, 09:11:42 PM: "Eisernen Kreuzes ohne Hakenkreuz, ist seit 1957 straffrei"

This means: "Iron Cross without Swastika, has been legal since 1957". "Straffrei" means "punishment-free". Only the Nazi era Iron Cross with the little Swastika in the center is illegal. The modern day LW one is perfectly legal (duh!). :)
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: straffo on February 16, 2004, 01:50:53 AM: Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
"Eisernen Kreuzes ohne Hakenkreuz, ist seit 1957 straffrei"

This means: "Iron Cross without Swastika, has been legal since 1957". "Straffrei" means "punishment-free". Only the Nazi era Iron Cross with the little Swastika in the center is illegal. The modern day LW one is perfectly legal (duh!). :)

If you dig a bit more you will be able to find one of the origin of my handle :D

Kweassa why don't you use a low vis HakenKreuz ?

But don't forget that as it will be in the position of the swastika some will still think it's some sort of swastika anyway and it will lead to some raging debate.

IMO it would be safer to leave this part free or to put some complelty different emblem like the Blazon of the hometown of the pilot.
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: lucull on February 16, 2004, 10:14:05 AM: Yepp, the Iron Cross (Eisernes Kreuz) can be used.
I took a look at the page again. Not every symbol is forbidden, the Iron Cross is one of the exceptions on the page. Unfortunatly they are mixing things up a bit.

IMO, you should leave that place blank Kweassa. Any replacement with another symbol wouldn't look well and there is no possible workaround to modify the swastika. The law is very clear and has no holes.
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: Kweassa on February 16, 2004, 02:55:42 PM: While it really pains me to do so, ;) yeah.. it seems the only alternative is no alternative... The finished version will be uploaded at the SkinDep. w/o the swastika, or any other substitutes... *grooan*

I guess the consolation will have to come from the Darth Vader pilot suit! :D
Title: This one's for ya, Wmaker!
Post by: moot on April 27, 2004, 11:27:36 AM: Hey Wilbus,

Can you rehost those pilot illustrations for a moment?

thanks in advance,
m.