Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: GWDJRR on February 13, 2004, 06:47:14 AM
-
What do you all think is the best stick?
-
Logitech Extreem 3D Pro..It's value priced and great ergonomics/programability...The jury's still out though on it's durabillity.
-
Saitek x45! Best stick out there. Seperate throttle and stick combo, integrated rudder that's not a twisty stick, and TONS of buttons/hats. Durability is great, had mine for over 2 years.
Neckbone
-
Logitech isn't worth the money it has the longevity of a 90 year old man with a super-model. If you're a gamer (or a aviation enthusiast) go for the CH stuff, it is high price equipment, but with a guarantee fix/replacement for stuff that goes wrong for 2 years. Afterwards its about $15 to have them do a total overhaul of your stick.
They are all I have used since 1994, well worth it, but pricey.
http://chproducts.com/retail/index.html
-
TM Cougar.... but with Hall Sensors replacing the pots all around.
-
Originally posted by Delirium
If you're a gamer (or a aviation enthusiast) go for the CH stuff, it is high price equipment, but with a guarantee fix/replacement for stuff that goes wrong for 2 years. Afterwards its about $15 to have them do a total overhaul of your stick.
They are all I have used since 1994, well worth it, but pricey.
http://chproducts.com/retail/index.html
I gotta push the CH stick, too. After 6 years of continuous combat and 2 sets of pots, I finally retired my perfectly good CH Combatstick and pedals for the USB CH Fighterstick and CH Pro pedals. I'm probably using only 25% of this stick's capabilities. I don't even use the Control Manager.
You can expect to pay money for the stick and pedals, but if you'll be in the hobby for 3 years or more, you'll be glad you splurged for the best. If you go cheap, you may end up going through a bunch of cheap sticks in that time.
I got mine here (http://www.provantage.com/pr_31986.htm).
Amazon.Com (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006B84X/qid=1076684909//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl63/103-5068685-6504658?v=glance&s=videogames&n=507846) also has them, but it'll cost you a little more. If you do decide to buy from Amazon, you might as well pick up this video (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6305136610/qid=1076685015/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-5068685-6504658?v=glance&s=video) too.
-
Originally posted by SirLoin
Logitech Extreem 3D Pro..It's value priced and great ergonomics/programability...The jury's still out though on it's durabillity.
Glad you like yours, Sirloin. I had to return mine after a few weeks when the pots started acting up. Now got a Saitek Cyborg. I love the stick (very accurate in the middle where you need the accuracy) but the thumb buttons are too big and clunky, and I have issues with the profile software, which doesn't seem to want me to program the buttons with AH commands.
-
TM Fox2 .. $30 bucks off of Ebay, worth every cent, far better than MS or Logitech IMO. Never tried CH.
-
I friend gave me a Logitech Wingman Attack 2, haven't even bothered to try hooking it up yet, is it worth it?
-
Originally posted by Sway
I friend gave me a Logitech Wingman Attack 2, haven't even bothered to try hooking it up yet, is it worth it?
nope just gonna tick u off...trust me
-
>>Logitech Extreem 3D Pro..It's value priced and great ergonomics/programability<<
Its a shame to hear this stick doesn't last long (if true). You're right, the ergonomic design is just great. Probably the most comfortable stick I've ever tried.
-
Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>Logitech Extreem 3D Pro..It's value priced and great ergonomics/programability<<
Its a shame to hear this stick doesn't last long (if true). You're right, the ergonomic design is just great. Probably the most comfortable stick I've ever tried.
I'm on my second 3D Pro stick in 2 months..That's why I said da jury's out.:confused:
-
lol.. just dinked around with it offline, You were right. Threw it in the trash.
-
I have had the same X45 for over 2 years.Saitek sent me a free set of pots when I wore my POV hat out just before Xmas.
I didn't like the rocker rudder so have CH pro pedals.
Beetle saitek trick is to change all the buttons to default direct x functions. The switch off the saitek Profiler and set it up under AH.
Use the two "shift" functions to switch JS setting in AH. I had a Cyborg prior to the X45 and would vouch that its short axis fidelity is very good. Plus a long handle that gives good feel.
-
MS precision pro 2, had it for 4 years now, i love it and wont use anything else.
of course, ive never tried anything else either. :D
~S~
-
>The jury's still out though on it's durabillity.<
I go through one about every 3 months. At Best Buy the no questions asked 2 year warranty costs $8, so after your initial purchase, you just keep trading it in for $8 each time. I play about 60 - 80 hours a month, so that gives you some idea of the game play. I'm not real rough on them either, always seems to be the right side roll that goes out for some reason, gets spikey & and then there was the one that all the top buttons just went dead.
Whatever you do, DON'T even consider the cordless. You can't adjust it's battery save function and it kicks on after a couple of minutes with no use. So flying to a base, your stick goes dead, you get jumped, you grab for a roll and nothings there, cuz it tkes a couple of seconds for the stick to wake up. Your dead.
-
Wheeeeeeeee!!! Just like the plane, the stick doesn't make the kills.
-
GW,
IMHO it breaks down like this...
1) Thrustmaster Cougar is probably the most advanced stick out there. It has the most programability of all stick, but reliability has not been up to normal Thrustmaster standards. Still needs you to find Rudders Aprox $350 (without rudders)
2) CH Products Full Setup, Stick, throttle, rudders. Only slightly less programable than Thrustmaster. It has numerous functions and is extremly reliable. This is what I have Aprox $350 (all componets)
3) Saitek X45, Probably the Best bang for the Buck in sticks. Saitek is still very programable and has good reliability. It uses a butterfuly rocker on the throttle for Rudders, some like it, some find it a draw back. (can add CH rudders in desired) Aprox $80
There are also several other options, but those are probably the best. I hope that helps
-
Don't forget - the CH pedals can be used for driving/racing games, too. I bought a USB MS Sidewinder steering wheel for $50 and use it with the USB CH Pro Pedals.
-
FYI,
you can find the X45 for 39.95 at the Saitek website under the refurbished listings. May have a mark on it or not but comes with full warranty. Tough arguement to beat for under 50 bucks delivered.
-
Best Buy sell any good sticks?
-
The Best Buy nearest me doesn't. Just the usual "We sell Microsoft and Logitech because they're cheap and mainstream."
-
Originally posted by Sway
Best Buy sell any good sticks?
Last time I was at Best Buy in LaCrosse they had the X45 stuff on hand, but that was it for decent sticks.
-
TM Cougar
I won't start to try to imress you, it does so all by itself.
If you just want a stick, get anything... If you want a STICK...
-
Saitek--not the X45 space shuttle control, but the Cyborg EVO--this is comparable to the MS sticks and the Logitech in price and features (twisty stick)--and takes LOTS more punishment than either. has 6 base buttons and 5 thumb fired buttons, + the trigger. And didnt Microsoft get out of the stick business? Havent seen one in any store in some time.
-
Originally posted by Grimm
GW,
IMHO it breaks down like this...
1) Thrustmaster Cougar is probably the most advanced stick out there. It has the most programability of all stick, but reliability has not been up to normal Thrustmaster standards. Still needs you to find Rudders Aprox $350 (without rudders)
Actually,
Cougar sounds like it is still right up to TM standards. Sent my TM F22 stick back three times and it never did work right. I threw it in the garbaage.
CH USB HOTAS all the way!
DJ229 - AIR MAFIA
-
Logitech® Extreme™ 3D Pro
(http://www.logitech.com/lang/images/0/2213.jpg)
This has got to be the bigest POS Ive ever had loses cal, already the POTs are getting jiggy and have only had it now for 2 months with light use stay away from this stick!!!!!!
-
Saitek X36usb is very good stick but its hard to find anymore. X36 have better gimbal system than X45.
CH Products: best quality out of the box
TM Cougar: maybe best hotas billet out of the box. Spend 200-300€ more and it maybe start working as it should...
-
Originally posted by Grimm
CH Products Full Setup, Stick, throttle, rudders. Only slightly less programable than Thrustmaster.
As a former Cougar user and now a user of CH Products I feel that this is a myth that needs expelling. CMS scripting has enabled the CH HOTAS to compete with the Cougar's programmability and don't just take my word for it, the well respected sim site Frugal's World (http://www.frugalsworld.com) said in his CH review (http://www.frugalsworld.com/reviews/ch-hotas-review.shtml):
"CMS gives you an incredible amount of flexibility, in fact it will allow the CH gear to do things that other sticks can only dream of and makes the CH Hotas overall the most flexible and programmable Hotas available"
Bob Church has done wonders with the Control Manager software for CH, he's brought all his know-how from his years workign with Thrustmaster and put it into Control Manager.
-
I also gotta go with CH. Oozes quality and reliability. Only downside is how limp the stick and throttle are - very little resistance.
The X36 is suprisingly good in my experience. Owned one set for two years and it never gave me problems - other than crappy software and drivers for XP. But the hardware was, in my case, very good. Before I replaced it, it still worked like new.
I have never owned a Cougar, but they LOOK extremely cool. But unless you replace the potentiometers right away, prepare to do routine manteinance, or else it will just be a cool piece of decoration. To me getting a Cougar was not worth the price and hassle.
-
Originally posted by Revvin
Bob Church has done wonders with the Control Manager software for CH, he's brought all his know-how from his years workign with Thrustmaster and put it into Control Manager.
I didn't believe they would ever get up to the programmability of ThrustMaster, until I found out that Bob Church was working on their stuff. With him working on it, I'm sure it's just as programmable as the TM gear, and could possibly be even more so.
-
CHPRO stick and pedals
-
Originally posted by Sway
I friend gave me a Logitech Wingman Attack 2, haven't even bothered to try hooking it up yet, is it worth it?
You're gonna hate that stick. It has very little stability for firing, and if you made the mistake of downloading LogiTech's software for it, you can't even calibrate it, as the software overrides Windows calibration feature. The only way to do it then is in game...over, and over, and over again. Even the throttle acts up nowadays.
-
Originally posted by bj229r
Saitek--not the X45 space shuttle control, but the Cyborg EVO--this is comparable to the MS sticks and the Logitech in price and features (twisty stick)--and takes LOTS more punishment than either. has 6 base buttons and 5 thumb fired buttons, + the trigger. And didnt Microsoft get out of the stick business? Havent seen one in any store in some time.
after 3 months hat dead
under win xp loosing calibration and need to be calibrated before every AH start
imho not ergonomic placements of buttons on the stick and on right side
im looking for something new right now
-
Don't forget - the CH pedals can be used for driving/racing games, too. I bought a USB MS Sidewinder steering wheel for $50 and use it with the USB CH Pro Pedals.
How do you do that? I want to do that with my pedals, but the only racing sim which supports 2 controllers is Grand Prix 4. Colin McCrae 2 doesn't, although the new one might.
I have a Hotas Cougar, but there is a lot of slop in he axes after a year and a half and the spd brake button no longer works. I know there are mods, but I cant be arsed with the time and expense. I wish I'd gone all CH. I might one day, I have the pedals already.
-
Got an X45 here a few months ago. POV hat 2 on stick stopped working a few weeks after I had it. Got an RMA from Saitek, but had to pay shipping one way. Still, I love the functionality of the stick. Even with one dead hat it was still awesome. Just in case though, I bought a refurb X45 as backup.
-
CH - Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, Pro Pedals
The best set up in my book.
-
Originally posted by Revvin
As a former Cougar user and now a user of CH Products I feel that this is a myth that needs expelling. CMS scripting has enabled the CH HOTAS to compete with the Cougar's programmability and don't just take my word for it, the well respected sim site Frugal's World (http://www.frugalsworld.com) said in his CH review (http://www.frugalsworld.com/reviews/ch-hotas-review.shtml):
"CMS gives you an incredible amount of flexibility, in fact it will allow the CH gear to do things that other sticks can only dream of and makes the CH Hotas overall the most flexible and programmable Hotas available"
Bob Church has done wonders with the Control Manager software for CH, he's brought all his know-how from his years workign with Thrustmaster and put it into Control Manager.
REVVIN,
What a great site. You guys ROCK! Thanks for all the great info. This site certainly proves the programability of CH's great hardware and dummies down the process so anyone can do it. I DL'd the CMS files for LOMAC, Falcon 4 SP3 & AH.
DJ229 - AIR MAFIA
-
If you're looking for a stick on the low end, I can't be of any help. I take my flight sims too seriously to play with toy sticks like the Siatek or whatever. ;) If you're willing to spend the money and want a full setup, both of the high priced options are great.
I went from a full CH USB Fighterstick/Pro Throttle/Pro Pedals setup to the Thrustmaster Cougar, but was not at all unhappy with my CH stuff. The Cougar is simply cooler and could do programming stuff that the CH couldn't do. I haven't checked out the new CH programming tools to see if they're now the equal of the TM programming, but I've got no reason to doubt Revvin's words that they are. I'm curious to see if they can duplicate some of the very complex tricks that my Cougar can do though.
The sticks are basically equal ('cept the TM is metal and has much stronger springs), but I find that I prefer the TM throttle. The arced adjustable-tension motion, movable detents, and overall feel is just better. The CH throttle has more button presses available, but the TM Range & Antenna dials give you some neat options. Amazingly, when I was using the CH throttle I felt like it should have 1 more button. :) I never felt comfortable placing my pinky, ring & middle fingers on the three buttons with my index finger on the front hat. Always felt more comfortable to my hand to have my ring, middle, and index fingers on those buttons, leaving my pinky wishing for a fourth button of it's own. :) The front hat was always relegated to keypresses that weren't used very much.
A BIG bonus for the CH USB stuff is that the programming software can make them all appear as one controller. VERY nice if you ever fly a program that won't recognize more than one attached controller. Thrustmaster never came through with their promised rudder pedals which would have attached directly to the Cougar and worked all as 1 device. You can use their old Elites (if you can find any) but they don't have toe brakes. There are some aftermarket options as well, but they're very pricey and I donno if the SimPeds have a toe brake option yet either. I'm using CH USB Pro Pedals. Donno how I ever landed without toe brakes. :)
As has been noted, the quality control on the Cougar can be described as "suspect." I've had ZERO problems with mine, but others have had nothing but trouble. The aftermarket support is nothing short of phenomenal though. I'd say that many of the guys who're willing to pay upwards of $350 US for an amazing HOTAS like the Cougar are quite willing to spend MORE money to make it even better. :)
For the typical high-end joystick conniseur I heartily recommend the entire CH USB setup. For the RABID high-end joystick nut who's willing to do anything for the best, the Cougar is your only choice. Get one and tweak it to your heart's content.
-
I have had several Logitech sticks( max 6 months life each) a Saitech cyborg gold(6 months) and and X36(1 year)
After adding all that up I decided that a cougar was cost effective if it could last 3 years.
Well after a year I got the Uber II mod done on it. That has been running nearly a year but not without issues. I will have to use my uber cougar for another 5 years or so to be cost effective..lol
My CHpro rudders have been flying full time for nearly 5 years!
Soda has been flying his MS force feedback stick for over 4 years!
I think I would buy CH if I had it to do over again.
-
Yep I have both the Logitech Extreme 3D pro and the wireless, Freedom 2.4! Wireless is very smooth and I have had good luck with it. It goes to sleep on long flights and as the batteries run down it seems to go to sleep quicker? I replaced it with Extreme 3D pro. The first one I got from Circuit City was bad outta the box!! Wouldn't calibrate. The second has lasted just less than 2 months. Won't hold a Cal and "jiggy" is a kind work for spikey jumpin' all over the place.
I already have the CH Pro Throttle and the CH Pro Pedals. I AM buying the CH FighterStick USB, even as we speak. I am done with the "Cheap Junk".
Steve, :rolleyes: Again you are aggravatingly wrong!! In PC Games a persons ability to set up his stick, the quality of the sticks input, precission and smoothness can very well determine the success of the pilot. It can certainly "Cap" his potential. I will agree that a Gazillion dollar stick is not going to make me a GREAT pilot.