Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on September 30, 2000, 04:48:00 AM
-
the no skill 190a5 dweeb following has officially moved back to the F4u1c.
in fact I'm actually surprised when I see somthing other than a Chog.
and why not fly it?
its just like the 190a5 was in 1.03 except its faster with better guns
and now with 1.04 you will see Chogs easily out turning P-51s, P-38s, C205s, P-47s (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) , all 109s
only thing that does out turn chog is the true turn and burners: n1k2 dweeb wagon, spit, a6m but its so fast it has no problem running away from these.
this is an apathetic whine because although its annoying to see nothing but 1 type of plane always there in every fight the masses have spoken and they have decided the best plane in 1.04 is now the F4u1c.
I will still fly every damned plane in Aces High no matter if the whole arena is flying the vaunted Chog laced with n1k2's but its not as much fun that way.
-
I haven't flown Hogs almost at all (but I have experience that those flies very very well without wingtip) because those are such dweeb planes, hehe.
What wonders me here is that C hog actually performs over D hog.
C hog is easier to control and take-off than D, with more guns and better maneuverability.
I was amazed when I tried first C, then D, as I were expecting that D wouldn't be that much worse.
Does D hog something better than C?
Feels like D hog has nothing better than C. (maybe amount of ammo and ordnance, if likes to play with numbers)
-
Citabria,
lets see if you find the real reason why there are so many C-Hogs around ... and why theres no planned 1941-43 plane set (yet).
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/000824.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/000824.html)
-
Citabria,
Please post a list of approved planes. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
popeye
-
"heres no planned 1941-43 plane set (yet)"
Gatt, I'm surprised at you. HiTech AND Pyro have both stated otherwise.
-Westy
-
We have an old saying in the Rangers that fits quite well here.
"Life's a squeak..........Then ya die."
Ranger Bob
-
Cit. ya gota fly the Chog buster. Yup..
Typhoon has no problem with Chogs nor any other plane cept for 2. N1K2 and the Zeke.
I chased down a N1K2 at 375 TAS and it did a had 90 degree turn. Not sure why or how, shoulda ripped his wings off or pushed the pilot though the bottom of the plane.
Ive had great fun this tour in Typhoon. T&B and B&Z its an interesting ride.
Dog out.................
-
The primary tactic on defence in the game is to spawn a ostwind. By far the best counter to the ostwind is the chog. Your just getting in the way.
-
Westy,
really? I definitely missed it. Well, let me complain till that day ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
Yep grab a Typhoon. The only thing I fear in the Typhoon is stratorunstangs or running out of fuel.
-
I love the Typhoon but I still keep getting caught out by running out of fuel. The amount of times I've had to ditch or actually run out mid-dogfight is surprising.
'Nexx'
-
Nice Troll Citabria
-
Personally, I'm glad that people are jumping into F4u-1Cs assuming that it will make them a better pilot:
AKDejaVu has 17 kills and has been killed 1 time in the F4U-1C against the F4U-1C
AKDejaVu
-
My list of "dweeb" planes:
P38 - turn and burn dweeb
N1K - turn and burn dweeb
YAK - tunring and climbing dweeb
P51 - run baby run dweeb
205/202 - tunring and climbing dweeb
A6M5b - turn and burn dweeb
109 - cannon and climbing dweeb
190 - cannon dweeb
LA5 - tunring and climbing dweeb
P47 - ammo dweeb
Spit - tunring and climbing dweeb
Typh - turn and burn dweeb
F4U - cannon dweeb
B17 - gunner dweeb
Lanc - bomb dweeb
Ju88 - bomb dweeb
B26 - speedy bomb dweeb
Geez it seems like every plane is a dweeb plane with the exception of the C47!!! It the only plane with do defenses and flies like a boat! So if you are flying anything but the C47 you a DWEEB!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Enough already about dweeb planes!!! If you got a problem with a particular kind of plane then you don't fly it enough! Spend 2 weeks flying nothing but your favorite "dweeb" plane and you'll soon realize that for every "dweeb" plane out there...there's another "dweeb" plane built to kill it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
Nexx....
Always pack 100% fuel, i RTB when at 25% but this is still cutting it short.Ive ended up gliding back to the field, and Typhoon just dont like gliding.
Right now ive got 72 kills and have been killed 21 times in the Typhoon.She does turn, controlled stall turns will surprise the hell outa a lot o people. Funked knows this to, think he has more time in Tiffy that i do.
I think anyone with time in the p47 or p51 will find the Tiffy a good ride.
Dog out.........
-
That Typhoon is unbelievable (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Carries 2000lbs of bombs better than Spit IX carries itself.
120mph with heavy tiffie and just rare stall horn sounding (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
Was just looking at the score page. I couldn't help but notice the abysmal stats on the F4u-1D. I've flow the 1C against the 1D enough to know that handling wasn't the problem.
I used to fly another game called FC. It took EXACTLY 30 hits to damage a wing on another aircraft. You knew that going into an engagement, you could take a few stray shots and come out ok.
I actually believe that transcends into AH just a little bit. Many pilots have sharp moves that are hard to counter. As a rule, however, they tend to cross the nose of the aircraft pursuing them. There's only so many times you are going to want to see 2 or 3 hit sprites on a passing plane before thinking you need bigger guns.
The next time someone does it, you have 4 hispanos... and they pay. But now you are a dweeb for taking up a multi-cannon plane. Of course, the person cutting in front of you expecting to live is a saint.
Quite the catch-22.
Its time to face the fact that you cannot expect to take hits and live. Sure it was historical, but I doubt that any pilot actually said "OK.. just 3 or more hits on me then I try evasives". On-line simming is notorious for that.
F4u-1Cs are pretty easy to kill when you see him first. They are deadly if you let them get behind you. I find this quite accurate.
The people just flying it for its uber status will move on to the new uber plane of the day. Eventually they will learn that no plane is uber. Now I just wish other pilots would learn that too.
AKDejaVu
-
I hate all red airplanes.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
-
For crying out loud please be quiet i'm outta town (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) and can't fly this is pure torture!!!!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
-
DiscoD I agree 100%. See the 1st post of this thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/004925.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/004925.html)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
Heh looks like the truth is too close for comfort:
discod has 150 kills and has been killed 107 times in the F4U-1C.
<cough> bias <cough>
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://voices.vossnet.co.uk/t/toles/9jg54.gif)
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 10-01-2000).]
-
dont tuch the 190 !!! that plane a Canon dweb ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? never but never shot down planes with les like 15 cannon round !!!! and u must shot below 300 190 Difinitely is not Cannon Dweb if u say Brick dweb that \OK
-
I have noticed alot of chogs recently. I have got into a number of tangles with them, and almost without fail all they do is HO. HOs are easy to avoid and i do avoid 99% of the time, but it saddens me somewhat to see people who rely on the HO time and time again because they know the other plane will go on the defensive to avoid it. If done right it puts you in a great place to kill em.
Sry Torque and the other good chog pilots, the majority seem to just HO.
I know im dealing with an expert pilot when they *dont* go for the HO (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Spat.
-
Originally posted by Spatula:
I have noticed alot of chogs recently. I have got into a number of tangles with them, and almost without fail all they do is HO. HOs are easy to avoid and i do avoid 99% of the time, but it saddens me somewhat to see people who rely on the HO time and time again because they know the other plane will go on the defensive to avoid it. If done right it puts you in a great place to kill em.
Sry Torque and the other good chog pilots, the majority seem to just HO.
I know im dealing with an expert pilot when they *dont* go for the HO (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Spat.
Now now..Torque likes to HO with the best of em.
-
I don't know what arena you people are playing in, but I see a lot more N1k's now (Probably a time zone thing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). But, there are sure a lot more 1C's now that the A5 is no longer 'KING O THE ARENA'.
I don't care who is flying them (1C's), experten or newbie, every one HO's when flying a 1C, me included. Most fights end up in a type of HO situation these days anyway's(in my experience). Usually if you don't get the shot first when on someones six and take steps to stay in that position, the enemy will always try to reverse into you and you end up in the dreaded HO, or a situation where if you don't keep pulling around to take the HO shot most likely you are gonna die. This is due to the fact that the other pilot really won't die (in real life) either if he continues to push the fight where his life is in jeopardy. There is no getting around this unless we mount a gun to our computer to shoot us when we get shot!
What really upsets me is this: in the 1C you can pull a hi speed hi g break turn, induce blackout and keep pulling and keep pulling, time it and just ease up out of blackout like nothing happened and continue on your merry way, free to pull as many G's as you like with NO friggn consequences. How many pilots you think did this in WWII? Hell, I'm sure if they blacked out, they weren't consiously thinking "I gotta keep turning, 1 sec, 2 sec, 3,4 okay now ease up outta black out, I've gone 180, I should be clear now". NONE I'm sure. Not one plane I've tried this with can stay with the 1C in the turn. I immediately recognized this when 1.04 came out, and this is part of what is making the 1C so uber. Try it in a P38 however, and you will enter an accelerated stall while in black out. But if you are in a 1C, don't even worry about it, you won't run out of E for a few more turns, and you can pull as many G's as you wish!(practically)
Just yesterday I was entangled with 2 P51's in my trusty P38. Started at about 17k, both 51's had alt and were making boom and zoom passes, each taking their turn. First couple of passes I used alternating break turns. They started getting closer and the time between passes diminished. So, I started snap rolling when they got to D500. This worked well 3 times. The third try I cut one throttle and got a real wild oscillation! Well, we ended up on the deck eventually and when I ran out of alt I finally died, was great action tho(managed to hit one's engine)! But, after the first snap roll I think I would have been to disoriented to do anything but regain control an dive out of the fight to regain my bearings if I was actually in the cockpit of a P38. Instead, I just continued pulling whatever evasive manuever I wanted (except the dreaded 'stick stirring').
I was quite happy with the FM's before 1.04, but if this is closer to "Reality", as they say, then so be it, I'll accept it. But to go along with it, I want to see some physical effects added to pilot performance.
How about this.........after pulling so many G's consectutively in a fight, control response gradually decreases the longer you continue to pull hi G manuevers. You can pull 9 G's for so long, then pretty soon you can only pull about 7 G's, and it gradually reduces every time you try to pull more than say 3 or 4 G's, where AH is set to start 'displaying' G effects. Then, to 'reset' it so to say, you either RTB and replane, or have a 10 min. wait simulating a climb back to alt to 'catch your breath'.
I'm really sick of N1K's and F4's pulling hi speed break turns and not losing any E! I find it hard to believe that after pulling enough G's to black out the pilot and more that 180 degrees of turn, and then some, it's gonna have much left to work with E wise, let alone pull back up into the vertical to follow for a quick shot.
my $.02
ts
-
Originally posted by tshred:
I'm really sick of N1K's and F4's pulling hi speed break turns and not losing any E! I find it hard to believe that after pulling enough G's to black out the pilot and more that 180 degrees of turn, and then some, it's gonna have much left to work with E wise, let alone pull back up into the vertical to follow for a quick shot.
You should see what I've done in a Spitfire Mk.V and still kept more than enough E (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
For example, it can reverse 180 degrees with close to blackout and lose only 40-60mph.
With initial speed being about 350mph.
I have not made any accurate testings, but I did once dive to land, then near the field I made few circles near blackout just to drop speed enough to have landing speed.
That while I did also get to wonder its E retaining and I hit throttle up again just to test.
(I dived over 600mph (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
-
Originally posted by tshred:
What really upsets me is this: in the 1C you can pull a hi speed hi g break turn, induce blackout and keep pulling and keep pulling, time it and just ease up out of blackout like nothing happened and continue on your merry way, free to pull as many G's as you like with NO friggn consequences.
What exactly should be happening when you blackout? Watching various shows about G-Tolerance we've all seen pilots riding in that centrifuge trying to stand as many Gs as they can. Everytime I see one of them blackout, it's like their bones just turned to jelly. Their heads just drop forward or sideways and they slump down in the seat.
Now I can understand still controlling a plane while in the onset of a blackout, but once blackout occurs, shouldn't control of the plane cease for at least short period of time while the pilot recovers? Is this already happening and I'm just not noticing it?
-
I was killed 4 times in tour 8 by an F4u-1c Air2Air and 4 times Air2Ground.
I was 18:1 against them in an F4u-1c and 2:2 against them in a 1d.
Like I said... I'm glad "everyone" is flying them.
AKDejaVu
-
Guys, your mixing up several different physiological G affects here.
Lets just concentrate on the positive G effects
1.) "Tunnel Vision"
2.) Momentary Complete Blackout of vision
3.) G induced loss of conciousness due to sustained hi G's (which you usually see in a centrifuge or a high performance jet aircraft).
I have personally experienced both 1 and 2, when I flew aerobatics in a AT-6 Texan
In situation #1, I had complete and total control of the aircraft but with a reduced field of vision.
Situation #2, was actually very similar to #1. My vision reduced to a tunnel, and then complete blacked out, however I had full conciousness, total control of the aircraft, and a full sense of balance (ie awareness of the attitude and G state of the aircraft).
The third situation we never reached.
Admittedly, we pulled a maximum of 5 G's in our manuevers which was controllable with a "Grunt" technique. The one time I experienced full blackout, I got caught looking at the scenery and was not ready for the manuever.
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
-
Thanks Verm ... that makes things a little clearer. I had always associated a complete blackout with lose of consciousness. I guess it's pretty hard to pull the kind of Gs needed to cause lose consciousness in a WWII fighter ... or is it?
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited 10-03-2000).]
-
True Verm, I probably exaggerated the effects of G. But my point is this really, that, as far as I know, fighter pilots would avoid situations where they black or redout, and a soon as they encountered this condition, they would I imagine take measures to recover the a/c and avoid them! Now, they have no real effect, and you can red out or black out to your hearts content without worrying about overstressing your a/c or your body! I think that is contributing to the 'uberness' of some a/c.
ts
-
tshred, I agree totally. Go back about a week ago and read the thread I started on modeling pilot fatigue.
Basically it say that the more you pull heavy G's and especially negative G's, your G tolerance lowers and the black/red out period increases.
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
-
Not to hijack the thread (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) but to get back to the origanal post. The 1c and nik only have one thing in common. 4 20 mm. If the guns worked on all the planes, It would be a very different game. IMHO a better one.
FWIW the N1K2 was always an uber plane. It just took some skill to fly it before.
-
duckwng6 has 135 kills and has been killed 25 times in the F4U-1D.
Threads like this understate the abilities of the pilots involved.
Every plane has its own set of strengths and weaknesses. Who flies what is usually dictated by the strength preffered that day. When things are warpy (very much so for most of 1.04) I will rely on snapshots. I vowed to fly the 1d last tour, but had such a tough time with planes jumping all over that I had to switch to cannons.
This tour.. its the 1d (now that the warping has subsided). I'll have to wait and see how much worse I do it in that I did in the uber-cannon-dweeb-hog. By I'll have to wait and see... that means that so far there hasn't been a difference... maybe there will be one some day.
For all of the c models that were in the arena last tour, I have never done so well against them. I was only shot down by 4 of them (air to air) and only 1 while I was flying the c model.
I don't see why people complain about what dweebs are flying tour to tour. It just means a good aircraft will be less effective. I also suppose it means you'll have to be looking for the wolf in sheep's clothing (stats from one posted above).
AKDejaVu
-
Stat's don't mean diddly Deja. Neither does the a/c. If you fly only to live, you could put up those numbers in a C202. Flying/fighting style and good decision making is the only thing that produces good stats. If I fly a C202, start from a rear field, climb to 30k and only engage when I'm at the advantage and never press the attack to a point where I can't get away, keep a hard deck of 20k until I'm deep into freindly territory, I'm gonna put up good numbers. It might take 1000 sorties to get 20 kills, but if I make good decisions I might never die!
ts
-
what ts said
we will see who the good pilots are in scenarios. there completing mission means as much as egtting kills and is just as important
-
How about if we had a system designed(don't know if it has been mentioned before though)
that if an aircraft is a tight turner the likelyhood of you blacking out in that type would be more than in a BNZ type aircraft . I remember back in AW3 Beta that the spit was a good turner but the ability for the pilot model to withstand sustained G's was lower than in other types.
Also I have not seen mentioned possibly enabling the feature that after a few full blackouts in which you left the tunneling vision phase you would lose control of the aircraft say for 2 or 3 secs and then rapidly recover ( I mean there can't be a delay if yer at 1 G and actually lost control for a full 3 secs there has to be a compromise in that respect).
I think even though there are, as mentioned in a previous post, situations in which you've lost vision and maybe hearing but are aware of your surrounding there should be a degree of loss of responsiveness,i.e. 7 Gs you black out you can't be pulling the stick all the way to yer crotch it goes down to maybe 4 Gs I mean yer brain is loosing blood yah can't hold it!
Those are my views feel free to flame away the Fire department is standing by :-p
------------------
Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.