Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: Fidd on February 13, 2004, 07:02:47 PM
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Over-zealous moderator or are not allowed to post even constructive criticism anymore???
Fidd the rather surprised......
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I'm guessing that it was the way you put it, a more positive view would probably help.
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I will bear in mind, in future, what delicate sensitivities these Texans have. Mea culpa. I wish to make a statement:
"The B17 skin as rendered in AH2 is a thing of incomparable beauty, the finest example of superlative design through forethought and planning. A masterpiece of elegance, detail and economy, witness the wonderful re-use of tail textures for upper and lower tailplanes, exquisitely ensuring no worthless "amateur" skinner should ever adulterate its lower surfaces with dismal grey! Observe the artistic use of shadow to emphasise the nascelles, and the pure geometric polygonal waist-gunners abode! A fine thing. A good thing. I may assert, without fear of contradiction, a thing of such peerless magnificence that we mere mortals are blinded by the intellect that made it so.
Let it not be said that perfection may be improved, but should the tailplane have seperate bitmaps for upper and lower surfaces, the insignia be reworked so as to be individual, the shadows on the nascelles be cast into oblivion; and the re-use of tail-fin bitmap on the wing be hurled forth.... then it may be yet more perfect than it clearly is.
love
Fidd XXXX
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ROFL!!!!
Fidd
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If I had to hazard a guess as to why the post got locked, I'd say it was probably due to the last two sentences in your post, and the fact that AH2 is still in Beta form. If HTC was really irked at you for bringing up some apparent flaws in the B-17 skin (I say apparent due to my lack of knowledge), then I would think they would be more likely to delete your post. This was probably a case of the "dolt" reaction coming into play.
For myself, I'm pretty confident that they will fix the B-17 when/if they discover the problems your post addressed. This still being Beta, I assume they probably haven't gotten the skinning model set up perfectly yet, and anyone who discovers some problems will be listened too.
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Fidd its destressing to see that you put forward a honist reply to the actual textures of the b17. Though when i sit here drinking my coffe two things really come into mind and how and why the thread got locked.
First it is beta and not the end product, thing are going to change over time like they do in normal betas. Skuzzy and hitech and crew are mostly intrested in major bugs and errors within the code. The reply about the quality of the textures being under-par doesn’t really fit into this topic on the boards.
Though the 2nd thing that comes into mind is the opposite of what I originally said. That this is beta and this is imo the most important phase of the product. If you cannot listen to customers within the beta stage your only asking for bad reviews from other reviewers out there who will not take so kindly to graphics and textures things like above.
Personally I think allot of things about aces high 2, good and bad and some in-between. I do understand that hitech and the crew at hitechcreations are trying to do there best for developing this game for the new players. Give or take I think they are doing a pretty good job and hitech should be thanked for a lot of time he’s spent with the aces high.
I was going to talk about the graphics and other things with aces high 2 but I would be totally out of content. Viewing and watching software unfold and trying to figure out how it works normally leads into incorrect assumption of the underlying code. This leads me to my next paragraph.
In some far off interview I remember hitech saying, that what was stoping him to adding more things to aces high 1 was the engine and it was getting out-dated. He started working on aces high 2, that would enable him to do a lot more things than aces high 1 originally had. This come down to the conclusion that hitech could of coded a lot of underlying code that we don’t even know about just yet that in future releases could easily be used as modules to turn on better graphics settings and increase other things within the game.
This is all assumptions, I doubt hitech is going to read this stuff I post here, he still hasn’t reply to my tile thread. But alas I wait.
F6Bomber.
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I'm pretty surprised to see this lock, too. When I read Fidd's post, my "take" on it was that his comments were meant to be constructive, albeit critical.
Of course, I'm familiar with Fidd and the extraordinary amount of effort I know he's willing to contribute to the cause of historically accurate skins. Perhaps the moderator isn't.
culero
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Fidd, you just insult Superfly and his work by som stiupid comments and you wonder why? are you 6 y, old? ;-)
I will say that once forever if you not notice som things
1.Mostly UV mapping in AH2 is same as in AH1 was. Thats mean most of main errors was copied. Except som planes wichone was improved (som bugs fixed)
2. Skins are sized up and is add "engine" (or whatever is called) to visualise damages by using anoher layer of textures (im guessing here). Thats why you was able to cut spit wings.
Thats why we have sub-custom skins, its enforced by som skins freaks
3. HTC choose that way to speed up (are you remember its 5 person company? HT mby you looking for cheap artist ? ;-))
4. Not everything can be done at once and perfect. And everything what is done by HTC has purpose
My advice is, live with this as is.
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If aces high 2 is supposted to be an upgrade in graphics department then why the hell did these bugs get copied accross over to aces high 2?
But i guess i will never know oh well.
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I chuckle every time I see this "it's only beta" stuff. That seems to be the panacea for every problem raised, real or perceived.
The sad truth on this skinning business is that Superfly has addressed it already. Don't look for any improvements with subsequent versions of the beta. Ramzey's advice to live with it says it all.
In short, we have been told that the texture models are not going to be changed just for a "few" people. Too much work has gone into them, and HTC now has bigger fish to fry.
It's obvious that community skinning was never a priority, and I'm frankly surprised they offered the option in the first place. It could be they underestimated the ferver with which skinners delve into their craft.
I was really looking forward to skinning for AH2, but I've gotten over my disappointment. I get plenty of enjoyment skinning for IL2:FB. It has a few headaches of its own, but they don't appear to be so obvious. (Example: mirroring the nose of a P-51B ?.. sheesh.)
Anyway, AH has other things going for it.
Splash1
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Originally posted by Dennis
I chuckle every time I see this "it's only beta" stuff. That seems to be the panacea for every problem raised, real or perceived.
dont think its only for beta
skins as they looks now will stay (except som minor changes and fixes)
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The removal of Fidds post was in my opinion disgraceful.
Especially if you stop and take into account what is said in a alot of other posts that probably do warrant removal.
Fidds point was a direct and honest opinion and while I am certainly by no means an expert on graphics. There is the point that I happen to agree with. and that is in some ways the graphics are not only inferior to other games but also again in some ways are inferior to what we have now.
Get on a CV and look at the other ships for example.
Now maybe its just me or my machine but I think the 3D rendering on our old CV's while have less detail look more,,well 3D. While the ships themselves are truly beautiful, when you see them in motion it looks more 2Dish then 3d. actually it looks more like your taking one picture on a piece of paper and sliding it across another
Again thats just my opinion of what I see.
Now when the reviewers come a calling it might be interesting to note that the two major and most prominant things they take note of and comment on is
A- playability/fun factor
B- Graphic's
Now if the graphics are substandard to other online games they will quickly and mercilessly jump all over that fact
And like with peoples attraction to one another it is the eye candy or visual appeal that first attracts us
We are after all Americans in particular, superficial creatures by nature.
Now perhaps it is true that these things are only this way because they are in "beta" form and this is in no way what the finished product is going to look like.
Or perhaps it is.
In any event I think it is far better to take notice and speak of these things now rather then wait for a possible oversight and see them revealed later in some reviewers column.
Wow I don't know Fidd personally. In fact I don't think I have ever even spoken to him in any format whatsoever.
What I do know is that
Fidd is long well known for his ability to create far more superior and more realistic skins and without question superior skins then the stock skins available within the game.
Again in "my opinion"
Fidds comments should not only have stood as is but should have, and should be taken seriously and in the context of creative criticisms they were intended.
Im a business man too. and I know that. If I were head cheese at HTC. I wouldn't be moderating him.
I'd be HIRING him.
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In german language we have a saying: "The note makes the music". ;)
Fidd's post was locked and not removed. Isn't that a big difference?
It has been said by Pyro before. They well know the limitations and they haven't done them to make skinners life harder.
It was also said, that the HTC artists have to live with it and so has EVERYBODY else.
And btw, the AH2 stock skins are not playing in the same league as the 4 year old stock skins. Maybe not even the same kind of game. ;)
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My apologies
I mistakingly thought that fidds post had been removed.
Perhaps if I had looked a bit farther then the end of my nose....
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LOL ok but why was it locked then?
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the "its only beta" argument is complete and utter garbage...for things to change people must tell hitech what needs to be changed otherwise it will not be changed...but that does not change the fact that fidd made a comment on something that was covered a while ago...htc has to deal with the exact same problems...his post was most likely considered to be rabble rousing
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Originally posted by ramzey
I chuckle every time I see this "it's only beta" stuff.>
dont think its only for beta
skins as they looks now will stay (except som minor changes and fixes)
Exactly my point, ramzey.
Someone will cite problem A or problem B ... discussion/complaints will ensue ... and before long, someone chimes in, "It's only beta! They'll surely fix it!"
That's what I find humorous.
Lesson: If you find a hurdle that makes skinning a particular plane accurately more difficult or impossible ... live with it. :p
Splash 1
Superfly spaketh:
It won't change any time soon. I'm sorry. It ain't gonna happen. We only have two artists, and we are already redoing 4 years worth of artwork. We have standardized our way of doing things for now. Our primary concern is finishing AH2, not remaking textures that we've already spent a considerable amount time on just to satisfy a few people.
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Ok but why was the thread locked?
The man simply asked a question.
I saw nothing in that could be taking in any way form or fashion as negitive to HTC or his emplyee's
I think maybe the Skins Pardone the pun are getting a little thin around here.
Look no one has a game like Aces High.
You find one that on any given night has over 500 people in its main arena and I might take a look at it.
But gentlemen It aint the Holy grail LOL.
AH2 Looks great and I for one look foward to its final release.
So far all the skins I have seen look great to me .
But hell Im easy to please LOL.
I am more after the flight model than the eye candy anyways.
I want those plans to be hard as hell to fly .
You know why ?
So some knot head spray and pray artist dont come along and shoot me down after I have been flying for 20 mins getting to targetLOL.
I believe HTC is delievering a good comprimise of flight model and playability for the masses.
Also keep in mind that they (HTC) have to designe this game AH2 to run on a wide range of machines not just the upper end hot rod gaming machines some of us are lucky enough to have.
So do give them a break fellas they are doing the best they can with what they got(a very small staff).
And HTC Give us some credit too please we really are on your side.
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Originally posted by mrblack
You find one that on any given night has over 500 people in its main arena and I might take a look at it.
Dark Age of Camelot, several thousands in several "arenas", but of course no flight sim. :D
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Interesting. To my mind, it is precisely because they are short of artists that every effort should be made now to optimise skins for re-skinning. The potential output of the community far-exceeds that of HTC. We proved this with SAC in Air-warrior. Kesmai made skins that were very straightforward to reskin, and the community put out over a thousand skins in 12 months, arguably extending the life of that game for 2 years or so.
So, I suggest that the thinking "not remaking textures that we've already spent a considerable amount time on just to satisfy a few people." - Superfly, is somewhat flawed, as it takes no account of the skinners ability to satisfy the many.
I was not so much suggesting that new skins were needed, more that in certain cases the "reuse" of areas of texture to cover multiple areas of the final rendered aircraft be ceased. This might involve the very occasional extra bitmap, frequently one which they already have on file already. This would go a long way to removing inflexibilities to reskinning aircraft, to everyones benefit.
Accordingly, I would suggest the ability for HTC to accept rigourous feedback on skins, and to amend the few areas that are problematic, would reap really vast benefits for HTC in the long run.
Thanks btw to those that wrote in or emailed indicating they thought the original thread unwarrentably locked.
Originally posted by Dennis
Superfly spaketh:
It won't change any time soon. I'm sorry. It ain't gonna happen. We only have two artists, and we are already redoing 4 years worth of artwork. We have standardized our way of doing things for now. Our primary concern is finishing AH2, not remaking textures that we've already spent a considerable amount time on just to satisfy a few people.
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fidd you not touch anything what was not writed on this forum before
long time ago HTC state to not give more effort to this
so whine is useless ;-)
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Originally posted by Flit
I'm guessing that it was the way you put it, a more positive view would probably help.
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Originally posted by F1Bomber
If aces high 2 is supposted to be an upgrade in graphics department then why the hell did these bugs get copied accross over to aces high 2?
But i guess i will never know oh well.
you said it yourself .... it's an upgrade.
when upgrading a software there is allways some legacy part (code or data) we(1) have no other choice than bring "as it" in the new version
(1) I'm not speaking as a HT coder but more in general as a software devellopper who is faced to such troubles more often than I want :)
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Fidd simply this is a bug form, not a let's critique HTC's way of doing things. And I re read your first post one more time. Still have yet to see a bug in the post. It was nothing but a whine, then the last line in the post put it over the top.
So fidd what your saying is, we should delay AHII for a substantial amout of time, just so so you can modifie skins the way you wish to. Sorry that would not be a very wise discision on our part, and that dosn't address size issues.
Now this tread also does not belong here. So im closing it down.
HiTech