Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pyemia on December 10, 2001, 07:58:00 PM
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I've been a customer of HTC for about 7 - 8 months. Now during this time i've flown all the aircraft available at one time or another. My favorites are the P38 and the Typhoon. I don't fly these aircraft much anymore in the MA. Not because I don't want to but simply because I don't have the patience required anymore.
Now i'm not Mandoble or Citabria, I've never had a 50 kill sortie and I don't practice lead turns on the motorway. I'm average at best.
My motivation for creating this post is this. There are some planes in AH which will get me almost every time when i'm in a Typhoon or P38. The thing is, all of these planes are unperked while most of the perked ones I can deal with easily.
Now i'm all for "fly what you wanna fly, don't worry about what the other guy fly's" except when what the other guys fly's prevents me from flying what I wanna fly.
Now a lot of you will say "learn some ACM" or try to say that these planes are not as dangerous as I believe.
If that was true, given the amount of time i've spent in the Tiffie in the last 7 months, should'nt I have, at least a small chance of winning vs these aircraft. I certainly do 1 vs 1 against most of the others but not these particular ones.
Now my point is, our philosophy of "fly what you want to fly, don't worry about what the other guy fly's" is kind of jaded.
Given that we all pay our subscription, should'nt we be able to all fly our own choice of aircraft.
Isn't this what the perk system was introduced to prevent> If not, then should'nt there be some discussion on whether the perk system could prevent this plane dominating other planes thing from occurring?
In case your wondering, its not the Spitfire or the N1K, its the La7 and the Yak.
If anyone disagree's with me about this, i'll be happy to meet you in the DA for 3 rounds in a either of these planes vs your P38 or Typhoon.
Pyemia AKA Zygote
:(
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Originally posted by Pyemia:
...Now i'm all for "fly what you wanna fly, don't worry about what the other guy fly's" except when what the other guys fly's prevents me from flying what I wanna fly...
...Given that we all pay our subscription, should'nt we be able to all fly our own choice of aircraft.
Pyemia AKA Zygote
No offense intended, but you have just defined the problem with your own contradiction.
You want to be able to fly what you want to fly while restricting what the other paying customer wants to fly...while saying that a paying customer should be able to fly what he wants to fly. ;)
...and unfortunately, there are no absolutes in the MA. Any plane can shoot down any other plane, given the right situation.
One has to fly to his aircraft's particular strengths while exploiting the target's weaknesses. Not easy to do and not always possible... but that's the fun of it for me.
Much as I hate Nebraska Football (Jayhawk grad) their motto encapsulates my approach to AH:
Over the Southwest Entry to the NU Stadium:
"Not the victory but the action; Not the goal but the game; In the deed of the glory."
Yep, that's why I play AH.
As a side note, the stadium is dedicated to war veterans. Over the Northeast Entry is a particularly poignant (for me anyway) inscription:
"Their Lives they held their country’s trust; they kept its faith; they died its heroes."
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nigga please.. this is a variation of the same argument that has been going on since the first spit took off.
if you are not having fun flying those planes, dont fly em. I really love the p38. and i get frustrated, and when i do, i vent by taking a nik, and racking a lot of kills. then i'm happy and fly my dear plane again.
this thread is gonna go uphill, and remember guys!! its always funny to see tards try to ice-skate uphill!!
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Zyg/Pye,
You are allowed to fly your favourite planes, no-one is stopping you. What you are suggesting is that other people not be allowed to fly their favourite rides so that you may survive longer in yours... Toad said it... Does anyone else think that's a little bit of a contradiction?
Quit worrying about what other people are flying, it makes little difference if you fly your plane smart and to it's strengths. If La7's and Yaks are handing you your tail then don't engage them. And don't think try the "I see them all the time and always get pounced on by 100 of them" line, if they are bouncing you then it doesn't matter what plane you are flying, you are gonna be dead anyway.
If you want to survive in your ride, better start practising your SA techniques and avoid flying where you'll be at a disadvantage. If you want to furball then expect to get shot down regularly, that's just a fact of the MA. Surviving a sortie has little to do with your plane choice but lot's to do with your mind set...
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Py's post is almost confusing. I think I read out of it the same as the rest. He wants to fly differant planes from time to time, but doesnt like the fact that he gets killed trying to dogfight against a better plane. Is that about right?
What exactly was this all about?
dago
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Zyg, I've been killed twice this tour in the Typhoon. Once by a flak and once by a PT boat. Of course, I don't fly it every sortie, and only have 21 kills in it(so far), but I would have to say it's not what you fly. It's how you fly what you fly.
I don't turn fight in a Typhoon. WarDog can do that (I've seen him), but it's not for me.
If you want to learn how to defeat the 'wonder birds,' try them out for a tour or so. The mystique disappears really fast.
[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Voss ]
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I don't think what I said was a contradiction, more like a catch 22.
If I fly the Tiffie or P38 at under 15K and meet La7's or Yaks then I will more then likely lose. These two planes have all the strengths of the Tiffie or P38 but magnified with the exception of guns. Sure the P38 can flat turn a tiny bit better but all that really does is prolong the slaughter.
Personally i'd rather fight a Temp in either plane then La7 or Yak. That basically says it all.
And Voss I do fly the La7, and have flown the Yak quite a bit too. Yesterday, after my 4th kill in La7, I lost my rudder and aileron to a 190. I still killed the 190 then got another 11 kills b4 I landed and logged. I don't believe I could do that in any other plane in AH bar the Yak9U. Kinda what motivated me to post this thread. The plane is a super killa imo.
Zygote
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As far as the La-7 is concerned, its easy: Come in above 10k. Most pilots who fly the La-7 know its no good at alt, so they stay lower. If you have the E-advantage, engage, but don't get into a turn fight. If the La-7 comes in above you, keep in mind it doesn't turn nearly as well at high speed. Jink him once and try to disengage, but be aware that it is fast and a good accellerator (sp?). I don't fly the yak much, so I'm no help there.
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Zig, I really see no way for a P38 to defeat or even survive a Yak9U or a La7, unless with very long range shots or very lucky snapshots. Yaks and Las will out-anything (except gun) you below 20k.
if we talk about 1 vs 1, IMO, the only real (unperked) dangers for a Yak are the spits, Las and Nikkis (perhaps 109G2 also). The only unperked dangers for a La7 are PT boats, M16s, Flaks, B17s, CV ack and the mountains.
About La7 damage, I've seen one with half wing out killing two cons in a row and still maneuvering and running away (smoking forever) from my D9 - AMAZING - (this plane is made of mithril).
A question about La7: Does it have the same engine that La5FN? If so, what in the Earth can explain the difference in performance (specially in acceleration)? CD? Weight?
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"A question about La7: Does it have the same engine that La5FN? If so, what in the Earth can explain the difference in performance (specially in acceleration)? CD? Weight? "
The missing perk points?
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Is this a "perk the LA-7" thread in disguise?
Seems strange to me that two planes as different in performance as the MC.202 and the LA-7 cost the same.
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So, let me get this straight....
Zygote wants to be able to fly whatever he wants, whenever he wants to fly it. But he doesn't want anyone else to fly the planes that gives HIM trouble.
Well, I'll give him some credit--at least he's not trying to veil the true intent of his post with careful wording. I can't say I agree with him (nor are many others likely to) but at least he came right out and said it. No beating around the bush.
J_A_B
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Zyg,
Trying to fite a La (5 or 7) or a Yak under 10k with a FTD is as wrong as trying to fite the same FTD in La (5 or 7) or in Yak, over 15k.
In the fringe (let's say 15k), and co-e I would say it's a draw. The russians can disengage going low and fast, and the american going high.
And I find nothing as capable in a tight spiral climb as a P-38 over 20k. Maybe a Spitfire.
Cheers,
Pepe
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The pilot makes the plane...believe anything else and you're kidding yourself.
(http://www.13thtas.com/rudesig.jpg)
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Originally posted by Pyemia:
If that was true, given the amount of time i've spent in the Tiffie in the last 7 months, should'nt I have, at least a small chance of winning vs these aircraft. I certainly do 1 vs 1 against most of the others but not these particular ones.
:(
You actually do need to *learn* something while flying. Don't expect to put in the time and just expect to magically gain knowledge. Sigh, if what you're doing is not working, try something else. Its obvious to me you haven't tried everything :).
Seems you're putting your energy into making threads about why you can't get a kill :D.
Learn something, record your fights, learn what you did wrong and what you did right.
oct out!
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well... the way the arena is now.. you can fly early planes and be happy with the knowledge that "you are doing pretty good considering".. or you can fly mediocre mid war planes and be satisfied knowing that "yu are doing pretty good, considering" or... yu can fly the late war and uber planes and be satisfied with a good K/D ratio.
Having said that.. I am against perk or RPS. I really Think that an "area" arena is best.. early/mid/late war areas all in the same arena. No one is restricrted to planes they can fly. want to fly a pee 51 or la7? simply click on a "late war" field.
The only restriction would be that you couldn't fight say P40's with your lag or 51 unless they chose to be in the late war arena in one.
lazs
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Lazs, we're getting P40's???? ;) (I know what you meant.) Honestly, Lazs idea is the best for parity and fairness. I'm not promoting it as the best idea for the MA, just saying his idea is the best for what it's intended for.
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Originally posted by Rude:
The pilot makes the plane...believe anything else and you're kidding yourself.
Not to far from the truth. If I see a yak, the pucker fact increases greatly. The damn thing carries about 20 rounds and needs to be in the enemy’s cockpit to do any damage. BUT, it has been my experience that the pilot’s usually flying this aircraft are already a handful to deal with by themselves, on the ground, with a .45! Yak’s die first when arriving to a fight, if I can get the first pass at em and that’s a big IF.
As far as LA-7’s, they do seem to be a flying tank, but normally they’re not too bad to handle for me. Most of the time though it is because of the pilot, not the plane.
Zippatuh
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Heyas Zip!!!
Didn't know you were from KC...we meet every couple of months to break bread and tell lies :)
BBQ of course and Toad always buys...it's a hoot :)
Keep in touch...we will post here when the next get together is scheduled.
(http://www.13thtas.com/rudesig.jpg)
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Sounds good to me man. I saw one this summer, or might have been spring, but wasn't able to make it.
Always have room for beer and BBQ :).
Zippatuh
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Like I said, I'll be happy to prove my point in the DA if you want to up a P38 or Tiffie. An idiot can kill an P38 or Tiffie in a Yak or La7 any day of the week. Its that simple.
:(
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Mandoble, your right, given equally skilled pilots the YaK / La7 vs P38 / Tiffie matchup will have the Yak / La7 winning every time.
The La7 fly's on Autopilot level with half its wing missing perfectly and lands nicely too. I hit a P47 and HOed a 190 yesterday in a 2 vs 1 and killed both, 190 blew half my wing off and hit my oil. I then saw a Lanc coalt and with half a wing made nice slashing attacks, killed the lanc, flew home and landed on the runway. Engine never stopped running :)
I think La7 has an improved engine over the La5, I think its heavier too.
Zygote
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Originally posted by Pyemia:
Engine never stopped running
I know very well that effect :(
Smoke of every possible colour is the only kind of damage I've been able to inflict to Las engines, but never stopped. Curious is the fact that a single forward ping kills almost always my D9 engine, if not kill, radiator or oil damage for sure.
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How's thursday night work for you Zyg? Me in my P38, you can have the yak/la, best of 3.
:D
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Pyemia:
I intend no insult here but, you may have answered your own question here :) Perhaps it would do you osme good to revisit acm. Here is what I mean. Once a person gets something in their head, it becomes a fixation. Kinda like beating another team your team always loses to or, competing against your best friend who seems good at everything; Oftentimes it just aint so.
The plane types you listed as being tough, aren't so tough if you go at it in a manner that is different than you have been.
So, I am suggesting you go in for some refresher training or, have a squad mate do some sparring with you, so you can practice the situations you find you lose to the Yaks and La7s.
I dunno but, it may be worht a try to do something other than what you've been doing.
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nigga please..
You have some kind of problem Animal? If you don't then check yerself, IMO the above is not appropriate for ANYONE. And don't go THERE and try and explain it, just don't do it.
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Originally posted by Pyemia:
Like I said, I'll be happy to prove my point in the DA if you want to up a P38 or Tiffie. An idiot can kill an P38 or Tiffie in a Yak or La7 any day of the week. Its that simple.
:(
Wow, the La7 pilot I killed in my 38 must have been a complete moron......
;)
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Id like to see you get 11 kills in one sortie in a Yak9U - it'll never happen.
Nim
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Strider refresher training?
No insult taken, probably do need some BUT there really is no use trying to practice beating an opponent who can outturn, outzoom, outdive, outrun, outclimb and regain E much much better then you can in tiffie, and do all of the above bar turning against P38. I can beat a newbie sometimes but thats about it. I've turned D11's, Spits etc in the Tiffie but never won a similiar fight against an La or Yak.
Don, ignore Animal, he's just trying to hijack my thread or something. Don't think he's intending to be racist in that context he used that word m8.
Darkstar, sure, 3 rounds:
1 You P38/Typh high, me La7/Yak low
2 Me La7/Yak high, you P38/Typh low
3 Coalt
All variations so no mistaking the results. I still think in all 3, its gonna be a P38/Typh slaughterfest. No humour intended.
Nimitz - I'll do that Yak thing for you tommorrow.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
Zig, I really see no way for a P38 to defeat or even survive a Yak9U or a La7, unless with very long range shots or very lucky snapshots. Yaks and Las will out-anything (except gun) you below 20k.
Not true P38 with 50 fuel is better turner at deack in low speeds then Yak
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Originally posted by aknimitz:
Id like to see you get 11 kills in one sortie in a Yak9U - it'll never happen.
Nim
I will flim it special for you :)
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LAZER ???????? HEY LAZER
do you wanna be wingman for tiffie, whitch will kick Zyg`s a** ? :D
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I have flown the LA7 maybe twice since beta.And never once have I tried a Yak.Neither of these planes bother me much unless I'm low in a P51d(That's why I fly P51b mostly...Late war Ruskie planes are munchies if you are in the right plane).. :)
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Orel, you'll be a tough one for sure, but my money's still on the La7 / Yak :)
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Originally posted by aknimitz:
Id like to see you get 11 kills in one sortie in a Yak9U - it'll never happen.
Nim
Nimitz, got it once, but with vulching. Couple where over the field, other on runway.
In the air-to-air the best in one not landed sortie is 9 kills.
Though it requires both very good aim, good no rubber bullets connect, and tons of luck for so many kills in yakU, normally I have enough for 3-4-5 kills air to air, 6 in a small % of sorties, 7 few times, 8 couple of time, 9 once.
In Spit IX I could bring 6-9 kills almost regularly, for some reason in other hispano birds I have problems for many kills even vulchign though, for examply with Hogc or tiffie I run out of ammo quite fast with only 5-6 kills at most non vulching. No idea what is the reason, though, probably, I do not fly them often.
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Pyemia:
CC. But the Tiffie is not a turning a/c as you know. It does have certain advantages versus the Yak and La7 though :) Because of its speed and power it can e-fight very well and those a/c will be at a disadvantage. It can be used to BnZ too and unless a mistake is made those plane types will only be able to wallow below you.
Now I prefer to E-fight, get constant angles on nme and waer him down below me. The nme will either get bored or too anxious and make a mistake. With superior E left over, you will have more opptys at a kill shot than the nme will. E fighting takes patience though, and the urge to dive in and mix it up must be controlled. Just dance on their heads above em and wait til they run out of speed below you; dive down and put em away. The Yak is slower than the Tiffie and the LA7 has speed and turn rate at lower alts so, don't fight em there :)
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Alright, you name the time, i'll be there.
And when it's all over, you're gonna know what used cigarette feels like, cause i'm gonna smoke you! :D :p :D
hahahaha...
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Alright, you name the time, i'll be there.
And when it's all over, you're gonna know what used cigarette feels like, cause i'm gonna smoke you
Hehe, I won't be naming the time and place thank you. When it happens to you, don't be surprised it's under my guns...hehe
Your response to my suggestions to Pye are just the thing I was refering to :cool:
Just the thing to get you dead :D
What I know is, overconfidence in your plane instead of tactics will leave the other guy above you grabbing alt, while you are way below smoking and about to become a lawndart :p
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Don, ignore Animal, he's just trying to hijack my thread or something. Don't think he's intending to be racist in that context he used that word m8.
Pye:
Wasn't the point. Context is also unimportant. Simply the use of it in a situation like this is problematic. If what he wrote can be excused away, then there is potential for anything anyone says to become acceptable. Before long then, folks would be at each others throats, hell it can get pretty heated in here anyway.
IMO, better not to go there at all. This thread began well, just generating discussion, I merely wanted it to continue along those lines. This animal guy may be a good guy, I don't know. I hope he or anyone else here doesn't think I was attcking him personally but, a place like this has to have some rules to observe or, its quickly out of hand.
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Ok I'm confused.
To win a fight, you must use an aircrafts strengths, while minimizing your weakness's. We all know that.
Complaining that a P38 has a difficult time with La7's/Yak9U's at low altitudes, is like complaining that you can't out turnfight a Zero with a Fw190.
The major strength of the P38 is its performance at altitude. At low altitudes, its pretty mediocre compared to most of the planeset. Its decent at all things, but it doesn't really accel at anything.
So I guess I don't see the problem. The P38 SHOULD have a very hard time against both of those fighters if your fighting them on even terms at low altitudes.
And I'd love to see the film of that 11 kill La7 mission. I know my gunnery sucks, but you would still have to be a super sniper to kill 11 planes with the small ammo load of the La7.
FYI on the La7 guys, it has the exact same engine as the La5FN, and nearly the same weight. Its major changes were in several aerodynamic improvements to the airframe that cleaned up alot of drag.
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Actually Vermillion it was 16 kills, 11 after I lost my rudder and left aileron.
La7 had improved engine:
"a more extensive modification of the design resulted in the new designation La-7. This used the new wing as well as a refined engine installation and various detail improvements which raised top speed to 680km/h."
Gunston, B (1981), The Illustrated History of Fighters, Finsbury Books
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Refined engine installation does not equal upgraded engine- it most likely meant the installation was improved.
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I never said the engine was upgraded, I said it was improved. A standard engine when refined is no longer a standard engine. So the La5 engine and La7 engine are not the same imo.
Think of it this way, A V8 Holden Commodore has the the same standard engine as a V8 Supercar until the engine is refined for racing, after that, even thou the original engines were the same, they no longer are. The Supercar goes a lot faster. So does the La7.
Zygote
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*sigh*
Ok here is exactly the difference in the La5FN and the La7
p.53 of Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War by Yefim Gordon and Dmitri Khazanov
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... differed in several notable respects from its forebears:
- Metal wing spars replaced the wooden examples
- improved internal and external sealing of the powerplant and airframe
- three test B-20 synchronized cannon, based upon the M Berezin 12.7mm machine gune instead of two cannon
- the oil cooler was moved from the bottom of the engine cowling to the rear fuselage underside, and housed in a duct of improved aerodynamic configuration
- the location and shape of the engine inlet pipe was changed (it was provided with two intakes brought out to the wing centre section leading edge, instead of having one intake placed at the top of the engine cowling
the following external features distinguished the 1944 standard production aircraft from the La5
- improved wing/fuselage fillets
- individual exhaust pipes for each of the engine cylinders
- fewer engine cowling covers
- longer landing gear shock struts and a shorter skid
- the use of a propellor having a flapping resistant blade profile, as already tested on the La5FN
- a metal nose over protection frame in the fixed, aft portion of the cockpit
- an updated gunsight
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Additionally on the data tables located on p.174
La5FN Production
Powerplant: ASh-82FN
Power at Altitude: 1,470 hp
La7 Production
Powerplant: ASh-82FN
Power at Altitude: 1,470 hp
Do I need to type in more data?
16 kills? Got Film?
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So what your saying is that, even with increased airflow into the engine and increased exhaust flow out of the engine, it did'nt produce anymore hp then the original engine? Now i'm not a mechanic but I find that hard to believe, and given the source its more than like incorrect. You would wonder why they even bothered?
What about thrust augmentation?
No I don't have film but really why would I make that up? Would be pointless would it not.
Zygote
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Actually, the cleaner airframe, different propeller, and modified exhaust stacks might be enough to make such a big improvement.
Look how the P-51 was 30 MPH faster than the Spit 9 with the same engine, and it weighed a couple tons more.
J_A_B
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Zygote:
No I don't have film but really why would I make that up? Would be pointless would it not.
Well the obvious answer to your question is that you don't have anything real to support your argument with, so you just lied.
Hooligan
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I don't know what types of individual exhaust the La-7 used, and I am by no means an expert, but individual ejector exhaust would slightly augment thrust. It still would not equate to increased horsepower. The effect would be to make the engine more efficient in its use of output.
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Originally posted by Pyemia:
So what your saying is that, even with increased airflow into the engine and increased exhaust flow out of the engine, it did'nt produce anymore hp then the original engine? Now i'm not a mechanic but I find that hard to believe, and given the source its more than like incorrect. You would wonder why they even bothered?
Zygote
Actually Zygote designing an engine for max hp output was quite easy given the near unlimited environment the engine needed to fit in, even in the 30s, so the max hp number given regardless of intake and exhaust changes would be no different(only time they would affect hp numbers is if there was a design flaw causing a less than optimum engine thruput). Now what the changes will do is either move where in the rpm range the engine puts out that much horsepower or to expand the range where the output is still at max (it can do many other things but much to subtle to worry about in a 1400+hp engine), and done well it can do both, making the change not show up as readily on paper but make a drastic difference in RL.
Troll
(intake and exhaust designs are my particular area of expertise) :)
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Originally posted by Pyemia:
The La7 fly's on Autopilot level with half its wing missing perfectly and lands nicely too.
I call roadkill!
I've been in this situation many times and only 2 times have I been able to land and taxi to the runway for a succesfull landing. If you loose part of your wing in an La7 the handling is almost identical to a FWA-8 in the same situation. If you don't catch the roll right away you're dead.
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The best way to defeat a plane that is superior to yours is to learn the strengths and weaknesses of that plane and then exploit it. That takes away the advantage of the plane and puts the pressure on the opposing pilot.
I don't see the mystique of the Laffer or the Yak because they make up most of my kills in the P-38. The only think I dread about facing a Laffer or a Yak is the pilot in those planes always seem to go for the head on shot.
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Originally posted by Hooligan
Well the obvious answer to your question is that you don't have anything real to support your argument with, so you just lied.
Hooligan
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No need to lie. Fact is I killed 16 planes, 11 after losing my ail and rudder.
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Originally posted by Kieran
I don't know what types of individual exhaust the La-7 used, and I am by no means an expert, but individual ejector exhaust would slightly augment thrust. It still would not equate to increased horsepower. The effect would be to make the engine more efficient in its use of output.
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Theres a WW2 plane which produces more thrust augmentation then dragged caused by the large radial it uses. Think N1K or some American plane perhaps P47.
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Originally posted by MrLars
I call roadkill!
I've been in this situation many times and only 2 times have I been able to land and taxi to the runway for a succesfull landing. If you loose part of your wing in an La7 the handling is almost identical to a FWA-8 in the same situation. If you don't catch the roll right away you're dead.
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Wrong.
Troll thanx for info. Ack Ack the Typhoon has no useful advantages to exploit. It does nothing better then Yak or La7. There is the possibility of barrel rolling or scissoring by these are usually last ditch attempts and are easily countered by both the La7 and Yak imo. P38 is better then Tiffie vertical and flat turning. P38 slighty better then La7 flat turning, has no other significant advantages at normal AH combat alts against La7 or Yak.
Zygote
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Remember that both the P-38 and Typhoon also have a large firepower and ballistics advantage over both the YAK and LA7 (think headons). In Typhoon especially I would use strict BnZ and headons if necessary to kill these planes. The AH Typhoon isn't a dogfighter any more than the real one was.
I would happily engage either of these planes in a P-38. I can almost hold my own against them in a P-51D, so a P-38 should be able to win in a fight. At the very least it'll hold its own. Granted both of them can simply run away, but the P-38 has good enough guns you may be able to get them if they try it. Just make sure you're not taking too much gas in a P-38, it really turns into a slug.
J_A_B
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Just thought id add here that i shot an La7 last night as he climbed above me and stalled early.
I fired a full 2 second burst into him and peices flew off all over the place.What was pretty funny was i stopped firing because as i raced up to overtake him id hit him with more strikes than id ever seen and I honestly expected it to explode! so I stopped shooting grrrrrr, but by the time i realised that all the damn smoke and bits flying off were not going to kill it i was already well on my may to overshooting!
BUT as i passed very close zooming by him DEEP JOY!!! I heard the motor giving out! chug chug (sound of prop winding down).
well there you have it, the one and only time ive seen the engine conk out on an La7 in the last few tours.
btw at he glided down awkwardly trying to avoid the mountains along came a kill stealer and finished him off but luckily I got the kill anyhow.
I dont feel they are perk material though.
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Originally posted by Pyemia:
No need to lie. Fact is I killed 16 planes, 11 after losing my ail and rudder.
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Originally posted by Kieran
Troll thanx for info. Ack Ack the Typhoon has no useful advantages to exploit. It does nothing better then Yak or La7. There is the possibility of barrel rolling or scissoring by these are usually last ditch attempts and are easily countered by both the La7 and Yak imo. P38 is better then Tiffie vertical and flat turning. P38 slighty better then La7 flat turning, has no other significant advantages at normal AH combat alts against La7 or Yak.
Zygote
You still don't get it. Every plane has a weakness to exploit, you just have to know what your plane and the enemy's plane is capable of.
Even though the both the Laffer and the Yak are good climbers, they aren't very good in a vertical fight, both tend to shed E a little too fast. Use that to your advantage. Both planes become very sluggish at high speeds, use that to your advantage. Both planes don't carry a lot of ammo, use that to your advantage. This is all part of Situational Awarness. As they say, SA is the key to a long, successful life.
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Pyemia,
I think I understand some of what you are getting at. By what other people choose to fly in the MA, it can have an affect on what is realistic to fly for yourself. I wouldn't expect to get a lot of enjoyment taking a Sopwith Camel up in the arena as it is now. Luckily, most people aren't out just for a high score but many enjoy the variety of difficulty the varying planes provide. Being a big fan of the early war in the Pacific, if we ever get those planes, it will not be quite as enjoyable to fly them if I'm running against the hords of LA7s, N1Ks, Spits and 51Ds as is normal now. But you can't always get what you want. Make some people happy over here and you got some upset over there. Too bad the majority of the really, really good action is down low. In the MA, it strikes me that the P38's place is above 10,000 feet with only short interludes below that to shoot at someone before climbing back up. One day...hopefully one day, Aces High will start introducing the early-war planes. Until then, I do have high hopes for the online simulation Target Rabaul to enhance or dominate my Aces High experience. It's mid-war Pacific and mission-based. Give me some Wildcats over a submarine or some of this other non-flying stuff hinted at.
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Yes I agree Steven, perhaps what I initially was trying to say came off wrong. I'm happy to have people flying the La7 and Yak, thats fine.
My point is that given the enormous advantages they have over the early war planes, I believe they should be perked and their ENY values lowered. N1K, P51D, Dora etc as well.
Its easy to say oh well, bad luck, everyone wants to fly easy mode planes, you'll just have to keep dying all the time. Its easy because todays society is focused solely on instant self gratification.
Ack Ack, it sounds like your not very familiar with the La7 and Yak, at least the ones we have in AH anyway. The La7 and Yak hold E much better then the Tif and P38 in the vertical. The secret to beating the La7 in P38 is in the horizontal imo. However this only works if the La7 driver is inexeperienced. In the vertical i'll kill P38 everytime in La7 and Yak, unless of course theres a real good stick in the plane or the P38 has a great initial E advantage and doesn't make a single mistake.
Zygote
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If any of this were true then the planes K/D stats would all be different.
fly some early planes and know that you are going in at a level of maybe twice as hard to get a good K/D... Fly mediocre planes and start with a plane capable of .75/1 K/D... Fly 51's and lags and start with a little advantage... It's all that easy. The rest is the pilot.
Area arena is the only fair way that allows total choice 24/7.
lazs
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And why not just open a separate arena with only early-war aircraft? Use the old BETA terrain for it to make up for the smaller numbers that would likely be in there.
Truth is, the vast majority of flightsimmers don't want to be stuck flying 109E's or P-40's or Hurricanes. While I sympathize with those who like the earlier planes, I do not think the minority should dictate the choices of the majority.
Besides, the earlier planes CAN be flown effectively.
The P-51D fares fairly well against the LA7 despite being pretty much outclassed. The KI-61 (basically same performance as a P-40) can be flown effectively in the MA. The F6F and Macci 205 (both 1943 designs) can be highly effective, too. The 1942 Spitfire is the most popular plane in the MA! And don't forget, the 1941 Spit 5 is also among the most popular choices.
J_A_B
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jab.. you miss my point. In an "area" arena you would be able to fly any plane you liked any time you liked simply by taking off from the proper field. You would not be able to take off and fight in a 51 from an early war field tho... You would actually have to fight planes that were of simular abilities. If however, like you, you felt that a p40 was capable you could up in one at a late area. it would be up to you.
lazs
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You still don't get it. Every plane has a weakness to exploit, you just have to know what your plane and the enemy's plane is capable of.
Give that man whatever he's drinkin'. :)
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I see what you're suggesting Lazs, I just don't agree with you. I think in that setup you'd end up with the early-war section mostly empty, except for the guys who flew their late-war planes over there to vulch the few early-war guys who were on.
Still, it might work so I suppose it's worth a try. I'm open to new ideas as long as they don't ruin the game for me, and your idea certainly wouldn't do that.
J_A_B
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jab... I don't know but my guess is that the mid war area would be the most poipular with the largest amount of plane types in it.. Late and early would be the least popular. I would make it so that it was impossible, or, nearly impossible to fly to "lesser" areas from later war areas.
I think the furballers would go where the action is. I think a lot of the noble "fly what you like, it's the pilot not the plane" types would lose their tast for late war planes when they didn't have any inferior planes to cheery pick.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs1:
I think a lot of the noble "fly what you like, it's the pilot not the plane" types would lose their tast for late war planes when they didn't have any inferior planes to cheery pick.
lazs
Well, I don't know if I'm noble or not.... of course, every Irishman says he's descended from Brian Boru....
Right now I fly mostly a P-51D. I really enjoy meeting another "late war plane" to engage.. like another -51D or a 190D9 etc. Makes for a good fight. Generally, though, if the participants are any good and are willing to stay engaged, the fights descend into the dreaded... "early war altitude zone". :eek:
Once you're down there and IF you get low E at all... you both are soon toasted by those barely capable "early war birds". :D
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I dont really dread a co-alt La7. I have had very few times where a La7 out turned my 38. No idea why besides the use of flaps, fuel load and perhaps I dont do pure vertical turns w/one ethier. I "cut" the angles so to speak w/flaps, throttle, and at times trim. The one advantage a La7 has over a 38 is its speed. It can dictate the fight if it so desires... but normaly they turn w/you till they dead or several more show up and your dead.
The Yak is a different story as I havent faced many and those I have where in a "furball' setting where many others are vieing for shots on you and the opponent.
As I always state I am NO expert/ace in the 38. I feel I am average to good at times. If you need/want help then guys like The Festerbot,Tac,Rob53 and Animal are the ones to talk to.
xBAT
The flying circus
"How the hell do I fly with this friggen nose and these floppy bellybutton shoes?!!!!"
P.S. Baaaa... you havent even flown the 38 this tour... its all La7 mostly, lol.
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]
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toad... we are seeing the same thing. While not all those who would choose untouchable planes are in it for the cherry picking... I know you will be honest enough to admit that enough do to make my comments valid. And... The 'area' arena would benifiet your ilk... You would have nothing but great fights with no cesspool of early war scum to spoil it when you had to get low.
Win/win
lazs
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Haven't flown P38 or Tiffie this tour, flying La7 exclusively now until its perked.
I feel that since most people in the MA fly late war planes, i'll do the same. That way I can get good results AND have fun, rather then just get good results.
Zygote