Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: weaselsan on February 15, 2004, 09:15:47 AM
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Kerry: War Zero
By Don Feder
I’m a citizen of Massachusetts. (God help me.) For going on 30 years now, I’ve watched John Kerry’s career with a mixture of fascination, revulsion and amusement.
John F. Kerry. The “F” stands not for fraud or fabulously coiffed – as one would suspect -- but for the Forbes family of Boston-Brahmin fame. His mama was one of the Back Bay elite, don’t you know.
However – a la the chameleon-like Zelig of the Wood Allen movie – nothing about Kerry is what it seems. He’s Irish, right? Well, actually, he’s part Jewish. (His paternal grandparents were Kohn, before they goy-icized their name.)
He’s a war hero who became an anti-war activist, when it looked politically advantageous. He’s a man with a common touch -- who married two rich women. One he dumped, when she was suffering from depression, after she bore him two kids.
A graduate of the snooty St. Paul’s and Yale – member of Skull and Bones, currently married to a lady worth over half-a-billion dollars -- nevertheless, he can prattle about this nation belonging “not to the privileged few, but to all Americans.”
He’s a moderate with a voting record more liberal than either Ted Kennedy or Dennis The Red Kucinich. Kennedy’s lifetime congressional rating from the if-it-moves-tax-it Americans for Democratic Action is 88 percent – compared to 93 percent for Mr. Middle of the Road. Kucinich’s lifetime score from the American Conservative Union is 15 percent. Kerry’s is 6 percent.
Is there anything about the war-hero/VC symp, “Irish”-Jewish-Brahmin, left-wing moderate, pro-abortion Catholic, patrician-tribune-of-the-people that’s real?
Actually, there is a stark consistency that runs through Kerry’s career – He’s an opportunistic, back-stabber who never met a commie he didn’t like. He also has chutzpah to spare.
In the late Sixties, Naval Lt. JG Kerry went to Vietnam, probably to round out a resume for the political future he was planning even then. He picked up some tin, which he later tossed over the White House fence as part of an anti-war demonstration. But, wait, they weren’t his medals, he latter revealed, but someone else’s who couldn’t make it to the protest. (This caused a Boston politician to quip: “Just like a Yankee. Throw’s away things that aren’t his.”)
One of Kerry’s medals was for killing an enemy soldier who supposedly was armed with a rocket launcher. Except, evidence suggests the fearsome foe was wounded at the time and may have been shot in the back. Perhaps this was a dress rehearsal for young Benedict’s eventual betrayal of the guys he fought with.
Anyway, upon arriving home, Kerry sniffed the political wind in Massachusetts – the only state McGovern carried -- and decided there was hay to be made opposing the war. Without missing a beat, the hero enlisted in Vietnam Veterans Against the War, nobly serving with such VC-lovers as Jane Fonda and Ramsey Clark in the so-called Winter Soldier Investigation. Wonder if they’ll campaign for Johnny this year? The nascent New Leftist had no qualms about marching with scruffy Marxists carrying Viet Cong flags and signs with slogans praising Ho Chi Minh, Kim Il Sung and Fidel.
But it wasn’t enough to merely oppose the war. Kerry had to smear his former comrades-in-arms as a bunch of degenerate, mutilating baby-killers.
The man who’s now running on his war record – and mentions his medals in every other breath – told a Senate hearing that Americans then bleeding and dying in the rice paddies were the moral equivalent of the Waffen-S.S.
In his testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (April 23, 1971), Kerry charged that American soldiers had “raped, cut off ears, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks and generally ravaged the countryside of Vietnam.” Sounds like an Oliver Stone movie, scripted by Osama bin Laden.
No wonder a group of Vietnam vets turned their backs on Kerry when he spoke at the Vietnam War Memorial in 2002. Gen. George S. Patton (namesake of the World War II general) -- who led troops into combat in Vietnam – said Kerry “gave aid and comfort to the enemy.” Jeremiah Denton – who was being tortured at the Hanoi Hilton while Kerry was collaborating– could barely maintain civility toward the war hero, when they served together in the Senate.
If Americans in Vietnam were butchers and war criminals, what about the Viet Cong? Agrarian reformers, one and all, according to the sage of Boston. In those halcyon days of pot and protest, Kerry insisted the conflict was a “war of the people” fought by indigenous peasant reformers. The senator-to-be apparently had never heard of North Vietnamese regulars, Soviet aid or the Ho Chi Minh trail.
Kerry demanded not only an American withdrawal, but the cut-off of all aid to Saigon. If the wicked puppet state fell, at most 2,000 to 3,000 of its lackeys might face recrimination, Kerry assured us.
After Saigon became Ho Chi Minh City, an estimated 700,000 went through communist reeducation camps. Many never came out. Over a million boat people fled the indigenous, peasant reformers. The fall of South Vietnam led to the fall of Laos and Cambodia – and the genocide of the killing fields. And Kerry is actually trying to sell this foreign-policy expertise as a presidential credential.
When it comes to communism, terrorism and thugocracies, Kerry is hopelessly naïve—or willfully blind. As a senator, he fought against American aid to the government of El Salvador during the communist insurgency of the 1980s. He also opposed support for the freedom-fighting Nicaraguan Contras.
At the time, he described the Salvadoran military as “some of the most blood-drenched men on the planet.” Were the leaders of the Marxist regime which ruled Nicaragua equally savage? Kerry never said so. Daniel Ortega and Company must also have been indigenous, peasant reformers fighting “a war of the people.”
He’s never known to have uttered a word of criticism about Cuban intervention in the Central American conflicts or spoke harshly of Soviet imperialism. Oh, and our rescue mission to Grenada was “a bully’s show of force against a weak, third-world nation,” according to the likely Democratic nominee.
While Ronald Reagan was winning the Cold War, as a senator, Kerry was trying to hamstring the effort. He opposed the MX missile, B-1 Bomber and a missile defense system. Had the war hero prevailed, the Kremlin would still be in business, and opening branch offices all over the world.
The foreign-policy genius was still going strong in the ‘90s. In 1991, he voted against the first Gulf War. (Body-bags would becoming in by the thousands, the military expert predicted.) Chagrined at being on the wrong side of a popular war, and with the collapse of the World Trade Center still echoing in his ears, Kerry voted to authorize the president to use military force to rid humanity of Saddam Hussein.
But wait, that’s not what he really meant, the senator now endlessly explains. He was voting to give Bush the authority to spend the next decade in a futile quest for the UN’s approval. He was voting to give Bush the power to oust the loathsome tyrant once W had assembled a coalition including the valiant French, the altruistic Germans, the impartial and totally fair Belgians and everyone else from Eskimos to Fiji Islanders. AKA: How to support a war (in theory), while keeping your head-in-the-sand credentials intact for the surrender wing of the Democratic Party.
Besides attempting to undermine the war on terrorism on the Iraqi front – as he sabotaged the war against communism in Indochina – Kerry has even found time to bestow understanding on Columbia’s drug-dealing FARC terrorists. A year ago, in a speech in Boston, Kerry said Columbia’s narcotics-fueled insurgency “seems to be a renewal of a kind of chaos fueled partly by guerrillas who have legitimate complaints and the combination of drugs and war and the drug lord.” Can you say indigenous, peasant reformers? Of course you can!
Try imagining Kerry as commander in chief in the war on terrorism. What will he do, empathize with Al-Qaeda? (Surely, it has legitimate complaints.) Offer to send the junior Hamas members to St. Paul’s Prep School? Find rich widows for the mullahs and suicide bombers to marry? Or concoct stories of American atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan to feed to a credulous Congress?
John Forbes Kerry/Kohn is a man whose time came and went – roughly 30 years ago. He could be elected president of Hollywood, president of the Ivy League, president of the National Council of Churches, president of the Dixie Chicks or president of CNN. But president of the United States? Only if the American people have a complete and total memory failure – if the nation has collective amnesia for the next nine months.
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let me guess you got just the chimp in mind for the job.
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More divisive prattle from foolish supporters of a corrupt administration now desperate to win at all costs...stooping to the un-American practice of bashing a war hero.
Sad...truely sad.
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being a war hero imparts no special political expertise... in fact, in weak people, it distorts their views. The very intense and traumatic events lead weak people to wildly swing their views and actions and lose all openmindedness...
this is the case with kerry I believe. In his case it is much like the drug addict who hits such a bottom that he finds jesus in a huge way... he takes to wearing an extra large wooden cross at all times and annoying anyone who can't escape him.
lazs
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Damn, good post Lazs.
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"The very intense and traumatic events lead weak people to wildly swing their views and actions and lose all openmindedness..."
Freak'n egg yokes out my nostrils....
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both kerry and mccain scare me.... they are walking around in a permanent flinch.
lazs
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in case anyone thinks being a "war hero" qualifies you to be the leader of a country, let me remind you hitler was a wounded decorated "war hero" from WW1, and so was that fat guy who was leader of the luffwaffel.
"me and my band of brothers may be old and gray, BUT WE STILL KNOW HOW TO FIGHT"....kerry/2004
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Phew wee they sure got the spew machine turned up full blast don’t they?.. Does anyone else detect a certain amount of Veteran bashing going on here? I’m sure there are hundreds of thousands of Viet Nam Veterans out there that would prefer this matter be dropped. What happened back there happened.. There is a whole lot of operational tactics that have been changed since that engagement. There have been many improvements to the way we identify hostile vs friendly forces.
Free fire zones..
If this author wants to quote 30 year old statements from a just returned angry young man, well, okay fine, but if you guys wish to open up this particular can of worms it can only hurt not help your candidates chances of re-election.
On this recent trend of Veteran bashing, read this weeks Ann Counter column regarding Max Cleland.. It downright boggles the mind.
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What problems did you have with Coulter's piece?
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Vote: Kerry and Fonda 2004....!
Hey they the best the dems got...
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Veteran bashing? You mean like the bashing of people who serve in the national guard and reserves?
It's amazing how mypoic we can be...
Anyway how bout we just bash the 20 years of extreme anti defense attitudes The Senator John Kerry had as witneesed by his voting record.. The guy is left of Denins Kuchinic....
If John Kerry had his way there would be no F15, no F16, no M1 Abrams, No Apache, No Bradley, No Patriot missle... He voted against all those projects... He voted to cut intelligence spending...
Plus john kerry threw away his medals, oh wait he diddnt.... Now they proudly hang on the wall of his senate office. I guess he is proud of being a Waffen SS baby killer and rapist,...
John Kerry is a proud medal waring Waffen SS baby killing rapist!! Seig Heil!!!!
Right? :rolleyes:
My hyperboly aside, how do Kerry supporters reconcile his outrageous staements, his (FAKE) throwing away of his medals, his now keeping the medals on display in office, his way left anti defense policies, his cutting of intelligence and after all that say he is strong on national defense?
It would be like saying Reagan was good for social programs in california in the 1960s...
Get real...
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Originally posted by Toad
What problems did you have with Coulter's piece?
"Moreover, if we're going to start delving into exactly who did what back then, maybe Max Cleland should stop allowing Democrats to portray him as a war hero who lost his limbs taking enemy fire on the battlefields of Vietnam....
Cleland lost three limbs in an accident during a routine noncombat mission where he was about to drink beer with friends. He saw a grenade on the ground and picked it up...
There was no bravery involved in dropping a grenade on himself with no enemy troops in sight," Ann Coulter says in her Feb 13 column.
In 1968, then-Capt. Cleland, an Army Signal Officer, volunteered for infantry service to relieve the Marines and members of the Army's 1st Cavalry at the battle of Khe Sanh.
When the battalion command post came under a heavy enemy rocket and mortar attack, Capt. Cleland, disregarding his own safety, exposed himself to the rocket barrage as he left his covered position to administer first aid to wounded soldiers. He then assisted in moving the injured personnel to covered positions. Continuing to expose himself, Capt. Cleland organized his men into a work party to repair the battalion communications equipment which had been damaged by enemy fire.
Four days after this action, while disembarking from his transport helicopter, Capt. Cleland reached for a grenade he believed had become dislodged from his web gear. Later it was discovered that the grenade belonged to a young soldier new to the theater. That soldier had improperly prepared the grenade pin for easy detonation and had dropped it while coming off the helicopter. The grenade exploded and severely injured Capt. Cleland.
Seems Ann has her facts wrong again. I think she may owe Mr. Cleland an apology.
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John Kerry? :rofl War hero!?!?! :rofl
Man, he got a silver star for killing a vietnamese guy off of a boat he shouldn't have been on in the first place.
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Which facts?
She omits that he earned the Silver Star for a different, separate incidient. That is a huge omission, IMO. The Silver Star is generally not awarded lightly, although I'd never be the one to say "politics" or "influence" has never affected the award of any medal. She should have pointed out that fact. Kerry is an SS recipient as well.
However, it looks like Cleland lost his limbs due to a "noob" error on the part of one the other helo occupants. It wasn't as the result of enemy action. Seems she has that right.
So, if she sins, it's a sin of omission. Which writer of either political stripe can cast the first stone on that?
Punisher, you're not going to ever see me diss any recipient of the Silver Star. You know where this medal ranks don't you? It's America's third highest decoration for combat valor.
Medal of Honor
(Service) Cross (IE: Navy Cross)
Defense Distinguished Service Medal
Distinguished Service Medal
Silver Star
Since it's creation by Congress in 1918 (but retroactive to the Spanish American War) there have been over 100,000 people who have been awarded the Silver Star. Think about all the combat since then and put that in perspective.
You won't see all that many folks wearing one. For good reason; these are uncommon men. Yeah, some of them were probably General's aides that spilled hot coffee on themselves. But when you meet one that got his in combat, tip your hat, say thanks; odds are that you've just met one hell of a man.
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Coulter said
Cleland lost three limbs in an accident during a routine noncombat mission ...He saw a grenade on the ground and picked it up...
crow said
while disembarking from his transport helicopter, Capt. Cleland reached for a grenade he believed had become dislodged from his web gear....The grenade exploded and severely injured Capt. Cleland.
oh yeah ...sounds like two compleatly different storys to me.
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I believe Crow has it right. Coulter stated the basic facts but left out a lot. Sins of omission, like I said.
Look, Cleland is a Silver Star recipient. Got his in combat at Khe Sahn. I wasn't there but I bet he did something worthy of that medal.
Max. I view you as one hell of a man, even though we don't always agree politically.
Jeebuz...... some of you guys.
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Also, for the record, Cleland's Silver Star citation, from 4 days before the grenade accident:
"Awarded: Silver Star; Date Action: 4 April 1968; Theater: Republic of Vietnam
"Action: For gallantry in action while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an armed hostile force in the Republic of Vietnam. Captain Cleland distinguished himself by exceptionally valorous action on 4 April 1968, while serving as communications officer of the 2nd Battalion, 12th Cavalry during an enemy attack near Khe Sanh, Republic of Vietnam.
"When the battalion command post came under a heavy enemy rocket and mortar attack, Capt. Cleland, disregarding his own safety, exposed himself to the rocket barrage as he left his covered position to administer first aid to his wounded comrades. He then assisted in moving the injured personnel to covered positions. Continuing to expose himself, Capt. Cleland organized his men into a work party to repair the battalion communications equipment which had been damaged by enemy fire. His gallant action is in keeping with the highest traditions of the military service, and reflects great credit upon himself, his unit, and the United States Army.
"Authority: By direction of the President, under the provisions of the Act of Congress, approved 9 July 1968."
Shaddup and salute the man. Wish that if the day ever comes you'll have the huevos to do something similar.
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Originally posted by Toad
Which facts?
She omits that he earned the Silver Star for a different, separate incidient...
Toad, your later posts seem to indicate you've been reading on this subject, so the following is just providing the facts for other readers:
These are the facts that are in error...not just mischaracterization or omissions, but bald-face lies.
She says, "Cleland lost three limbs in an accident during a routine noncombat mission where he was about to drink beer with friends. " The truth is that he volunteered to set up a radio relay on a mountain top in support of the Khe Sahn action. He and his signals team were airlifted to the site. It was on this mission--not a beer drinking routine noncombat mission--that he noticed the grenade after exiting the transport chopper. Combat operations in a combat zone.
She states, "There was no bravery involved in dropping a grenade on himself with no enemy troops in sight." The grenade was another soldier's, not his. As far as "no enemy in sight"...this was a mountain top at Khe Sahn--a spot that was one of the fiercest battlegrounds of the war where 730 Americans were killed in action and 2,642 were wounded. This wasn't while on RR in Japan or even Saigon. Again, this was a combat zone during combat operations.
Coulter is a yellow journalist of the highest order and should be fired for making up stories without checking her facts.
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Originally posted by crowMAW
Coulter is a yellow journalist of the highest order and should be fired for making up stories without checking her facts.
I hate to see journalists on either side play down military service and awards. If a man loses an arm in a war because of a grenade accident it is serious business, and not something they should attack them for. I don't think people should be attacking Bush over his ANG service, or John Kerry over his protests after the war. Vietnam was a bad era for US military and politics. By bringing up everyone's Vietnam era skeletons, they just sling mud, and completely disregard the issues of today.
There should be more focus on voting records, and accomplishements while in office. I don't care if we have a reformed alcoholic for a President, or an adulterer. If their private life doesn't interfere with their ability to lead the country and steer us to better economic health, and national security without taking away our liberties then they are okay by me.
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Originally posted by Munkii
There should be more focus on voting records, and
accomplishements while in office.
I think it would be easier for Kerry if people just focused on his bizzare post vietnam behavior and possible infidelity for his voting record and accomplishments in office are truly despicable....
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I think it would be easier for Kerry if people just focused on his bizzare post vietnam behavior and possible infidelity for his voting record and accomplishments in office are truly despicable....
Why not bring his dispicable voting record out then? Maybe there could have been a better DNC candidate. I don't like Kerry, and I don't like Bush. I basically have no one to vote for in the 2 party system we have today. I'll just have to wait to see who is going to be on the ballot, hopefully I'll know something about the non GOP or DNC candidates to make a worthwhile decision.
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I do, his record is really awful.
For example Kerry now posing as a "National Security" candidate voted to gut funding fpr some 30 key military programs like the M1 Abrams tank, The bradly AFV, the ah64 apache, the f15, f16, patriot missle, etc etc... He also voted to cut intelligence spending.
The now anti big special interest $$$ candidate Kerry also took in more lobbist money than any other senator from either party during his 19 years in office... He authored practically no legislation during the same 19 years. IIRC he only attended some 1/3 of his votes in the senate....
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Originally posted by crowMAW
Coulter is a yellow journalist of the highest order and should be fired for making up stories without checking her facts.
Oh, she's partisan alright. Very. She's an embarassment to the trade. She didn't really entirely make up the story though. She slanted it and twisted it. Cleland was on his way out of Khe Sahn on that chopper; he probably was going to have a beer when he got back. I would have had six or more. But her presentation is just BS. And she should be ashamed. She should apologize to Cleland and it p.o.'s me to the point I'll probably drop her a nasty E-Mail so she can ignore that too.
Of course, I view many of the pundits on the other side the same way when they twist the Bush/Guard thing into something way beyond what it actually is.
I saw some dittzy black woman pundit award Kerry the Congressional in the Sunday paper today. You'd think she'd know the difference between the MOH and a SS.
Face it.. our media pretty much suxxors.
We probably both agree on that too.
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I did just send Coulter a zinger. Felt good, too.
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Thx for picking that up Crow,
Earlier I was reading more of the story. For 25 years Max Cleland was beating himself over the head.. “My God, I must be the stupidest guy in the world. How could I possibly not set the pen correctly” then, a few years ago he receives a letter from an old Army buddy -- “Max, you remember the grenade you took?” Well yeah.. “It came off the cherries web”.. Can you imagine the sense of self guilt he must of felt for so many years?.. I sure can’t.
So he gets home from the war.. no job, no car, no wife, no girlfriend, no plans.. practically no body. It was a dark period. But then, because of his faith in God, he jumped head first into his Georgia State senate campaign and won. Later, President Carter offered him a job as head of the Veterans administration which he ran like a Swiss watch. The rest of the story you know but needless to say, he is an inspiration to any young man right now at Walter Reed who might be feeling a bit poorly.
To me, Sen. Max Cleland is the very essence of the word “hero”
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kerry is damaged good... if you want to honor his service... name a VA hospital after him or let him lead parades or something but don't let him run the government.
lazs