Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: WhiteHawk on February 15, 2004, 09:35:11 AM

Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: WhiteHawk on February 15, 2004, 09:35:11 AM
Below dar means below dar, for nme as well as friendlies.  There is no need to have friends on dar wherever they may be.
  Wingman by permission, or at least alert the pilot that they are bering wingmanned and by whom.  My success ratio as a goon driver when NOT announcing it is at least 20 times greater then when I do announce it, particularly during prime time.
  I believe when a guy says '<---goon for 184', a spy can wingman this guy and track him to death.
  Introduce some sort of inteligence aspect of for the game, for example, if a spy can parachute near an nme base and sneak into the map room without being killed or captured, he can see the radar of the country whose map room he is in.  Maybe a bad example, but u get the idea.  
  or camera loadouts for planes that act as low range radar stations for that particular country.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: beet1e on February 15, 2004, 02:52:26 PM
It should be possible for HTC to disallow multiple logins from the same IP address.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Sundowner on February 15, 2004, 09:37:49 PM
Quote
It should be possible for HTC to disallow multiple logins from the same IP address.


Don't look for this to happen anytime soon I think.
If for example I held a subscription and my son held a subscription I dont think it would go over well if we wanted to play at the same time and couldnt.
Also
HTC is in the buisness of selling subscriptions.
To limit the number of subscriptions from the same IP address would be counterproductive to the buisness.
                   
                                               Sun
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Delirium on February 15, 2004, 11:24:57 PM
My nephew and I play over the same IP address and this would definitely cost them business.

Before you ask, we are in the same country in the the same squad.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Blammo on February 16, 2004, 09:42:15 AM
While I agree "spying" is a problem, I don't believe the is a good solution.  If people lack character to the point where they will use multiple accounts to cheat and get kills, then there is very little that people with integrity can do.

However, what can be done is this: if you know someone that is doing this, let everyone know, refuse to fly with them and if they are in your squad, ask them to stop or kick them out.  If they are in a squad other than yours, let the CO of that squad know.  If the CO refuses to do anything about that sort of spying, then we can advertise that fact too.

Ultimately, the community will be the great determiner of whether this is acceptable or not.  I personally will not fly with anyone I know is using multiple accounts for spying and I will not be apart of a squad (even for a single mission) that I know is doing that.  May sound "high and mighty" to me, but that is part of my character.  To me, it is more fun to take the game as it is.  If I want easy kills, I'll play offline...the drones don't even try to evade or fire back.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: WhiteHawk on February 16, 2004, 10:21:40 AM
Problem is, its such an effective way to defeat the opponent, that if it exists for one side, it necessarily needs to exist for the other.  To leave the situation up to the honest folks to shun the dishonest, much like real life, is  a bit over optimistic.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: sonofagun on February 17, 2004, 05:41:36 AM
RJO's a bigger problem than spying...for us knights, that is.:mad:
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Kweassa on February 17, 2004, 06:11:50 AM
Just make the pilots "enlist" to a country in the MA on a monthly/Tour basis.

 At the start of each new tour, new log-on, the pilot will be prompted to choose his/her country.

 And for the duration of the Tour, his/her allegiance will be solely tied to the country he/she enlisted to. No side changing will be possible.

 If possible, maybe the HTC home page can keep track of who,  how many people, enlisted to a certain country - it can serve another purpose of numbers balancing.

 ..

 Ofcourse, that's not gonna stop people dual-accounts. But then again, it's just a game. If someone's so obsessed to set up a dual account and run two games at the same time, just to become a peeping-Tom, heck, he probably deserves to be a spy. It's not easy to become a mental pervert.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Tilt on February 17, 2004, 07:29:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
It should be possible for HTC to disallow multiple logins from the same IP address.


I have a NAT enabled routing hub and both myself and my son play............... and hope to in the future.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Tilt on February 17, 2004, 07:41:07 AM
Spies are not trustworthy people......... they are not honourable people............. they are not people I would want to associate with (WGAF).

They are "spoilers" but I do not see an "in game" mechanism that HTC can apply.

I abhore the witch hunt mentality in the MA now...... ficticious accusations of cheating by defeated players are all over channel 1 and add nothing to the game............ same for the spy accusations.


If you believe a player/players are spying then mail your evidence to HTC. They can probably do nothing about it except record the complaint  for future reference.

A nod is as good as a wink to a blind man.........(unless of course you tell him what your doing)
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: WhiteHawk on February 17, 2004, 04:59:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
..

 Ofcourse, that's not gonna stop people dual-accounts. But then again, it's just a game. If someone's so obsessed to set up a dual account and run two games at the same time, just to become a peeping-Tom, heck, he probably deserves to be a spy. It's not easy to become a mental pervert.


Yea, but it gets real old having an m16 waiting for your NOE assault, and its the same one who got you 4 times last week.
  I hate getting beat by mental perverts:mad:
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Greebo on February 17, 2004, 05:07:28 PM
How about a dot command to turn your green dot on or off for friendly dar? Possibly you could still be seen within the radar range circle of friendly fields, but not outside. In RL most WW2 aircraft had an IFF set which friendly (and sometimes unfriendly) radar operators could interrogate to find whose side you were on. IIRC this IFF box could be switched on or off.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Kweassa on February 17, 2004, 05:26:27 PM
Whitehawk, normally, a mentally healthy person would think that if something goes wrong with their plan, it's because the plan sucked. Not because there is a spy waiting at every corner of the alley.

 Tilt is 100% right. It's a witch hunt claim, finding someone to accuse with no grounds behind the accusation. I've seen numerous spy claims and yet, have nobody ever come up with any proof so far.

 Ofcourse, that doesn't mean that I think there are no spies in the game. There probably are. But the odds are, people who are so pathetic are hardly welcomed by anyside. I've seen some people rant and chat "hey the Knits are doing XXX" or "hey the Bish are YYY" before. None of them were welcomed by anyone - they were shunned from the community. They usually don't last a month.

 All the "real" spy thingies happening are mostly associated CV locations. When you see someone who is high in Player rank suddenly come your side and seize the control of the CV and head it towards its doom, you know lame things are happening.

 Other than that, assuming that there's someone who reports your activity everytime for everu mission undetaken is plain paranoid. I've been playing AH for about three years now. I know when an NOE is coming. I can usually feel it by looking at the radar counters and how they change with time. It's a tactical judgement from experience, and I'm not the only one who's capable of making such judgements.

 The odds are, if you fail a NOE mission, someone either anticipated it, or the defense was quick to respond. It's not because somebody was necessarily watching your team.

 ..

 On a clear sky condition w/o clouds, I can usually spot a NOE the moment the first con shows over the horizon - especially if the cons are coming over the sea. About 3 minutes before their arrival to the target destination. When I holler for help, people know that NOE planes are easy meat. They usually respond very quickly, and intercept most of the planes before they reach the target.

 IMO the limiting the number of accounts on a single IP is a plain overkill.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Furious on February 17, 2004, 06:21:58 PM
I ended up having to open a fourth account.

At first I just had the one I flew on.  But I got annoyed not knowing what the knits were doing, so I opened the second.  Then I was intrigued with the goings on over in bish land and had to have the third account.

All this spying got very confusing.  Sometimes I would get so involved with being a spy that I would forget what I was doing.  

So I opend the fourth to spy on myself.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 18, 2004, 12:06:42 AM
Just another Facet of the game. kinda makes it more realistic LOL
We've all benifited form spies as well as been hurt by them.

but By and large from what I have seen is they pretty much have minimal effect on the over all game.
Most missions/plans that I have seen go wrong  for both sides friendly and enemy were due to either a poor plan,and/or execution, someone screwing up and popping up obove dar or more frequently because someone was heads up enough to take notice and give  warning and others were wise enough to take heed to those warnings and take action.

Almost as frequently the reason alot of missions suceed  even when discovered is because people dont take heed.
I know whats hapened with me numerous times where I've seen and repetedly reported  X force at X alt headed in X direction and for X base to watch out only to have my warnings ignored untill it was too late.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: WhiteHawk on February 18, 2004, 05:06:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Whitehawk, normally, a mentally healthy person would think that if something goes wrong with their plan, it's because the plan sucked. Not because there is a spy waiting at every corner of the alley.

 Tilt is 100% right. It's a witch hunt claim, finding someone to accuse with no grounds behind the accusation. I've seen numerous spy claims and yet, have nobody ever come up with any proof so far.



Rest assured, i know that it is happening.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: WhiteHawk on February 18, 2004, 05:10:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Just another Facet of the game. kinda makes it more realistic LOL
We've all benifited form spies as well as been hurt by them.

but By and large from what I have seen is they pretty much have minimal effect on the over all game.
Most missions/plans that I have seen go wrong  for both sides friendly and enemy were due to either a poor plan,and/or execution, someone screwing up and popping up obove dar or more frequently because someone was heads up enough to take notice and give  warning and others were wise enough to take heed to those warnings and take action.

 
  Some suggestions as i mentioned at the top would be a good solution.  If there are no spies then who cares if friendly dar is disabled for a particular group of people who dont want to be seen by anybody anyway?  Who cares if I require permission to be wingmanned?  If there are spies, it is them that suffer and nobdy else.  I wont argue with there bieng spies in the game.  it is profitable for AH(short run).  But lets at least be allowed a chance to counter them.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Morpheus on February 19, 2004, 08:17:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Furious
I ended up having to open a fourth account.

At first I just had the one I flew on.  But I got annoyed not knowing what the knits were doing, so I opened the second.  Then I was intrigued with the goings on over in bish land and had to have the third account.

All this spying got very confusing.  Sometimes I would get so involved with being a spy that I would forget what I was doing.  

So I opend the fourth to spy on myself.



Furious, I feel your pain... I ended up having a 5th and finnal account to spy on myself for spying on myself who was spying on the bish that was spying on the Nights who was a Player on the Rooks.... mmk whos on first?:D
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Kanth on February 22, 2004, 03:25:05 PM
for NOE.

If someone goes below dar, no one can see them, including their own country.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: WhiteHawk on February 23, 2004, 06:36:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kanth
for NOE.

If someone goes below dar, no one can see them, including their own country.


even with wingman enabled?  hmmm..maybe I am paranoid.:(
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Furious on February 23, 2004, 07:12:08 PM
Not true anymore Kanth.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Kanth on February 23, 2004, 09:42:39 PM
No, that was my solve for the problem.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Quote
Originally posted by Furious
Not true anymore Kanth.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: empty on February 23, 2004, 11:20:26 PM
So restrict radar reporting (under-dar) to squad and mission.  That eliminates the majority and the random.

I don't know how many NOE's I've spoofed just being in the right place.  Usually because I refuse to use front line fields.  Having guys that are "lifters" along also goof the mission up.  I don't know if its intentional or not, but I had a guy that just refused to stay low.  I've also had the "friendlies" shadow the NOE mission, I assume to help.  No amount of communication seemed to work.  Was this guy a spy?  or was he just new and didn't know any better?  I have no idea, but he was annoying.

IP addresses wouldn't work well, I personally own 8 IPs for my own networking purposes.  They are all static.  Others have multiples assigned dynamically from their ISPs because they have multiple computers.

Unless the guy is internet sharing or actually using the same computer to run multiple instances of AH you won't get the same IP.

Spying happens, been happening for 7000-years of recorded history.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Furious on February 24, 2004, 02:50:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kanth
No, that was my solve for the problem.


My bad.  It used to be like that.  

I prefer it the way it is now.  With that system there could be friendlies up defending a base under heavy attack, but you couldn't tell because a good deal of them might be on the deck fightin.  You'd see no dots and no bar and figure the base was overrun and a lost cause.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: tapakeg on February 24, 2004, 06:35:35 AM
You should be able to switch sides and back once a tour.  Why would you need more than that?

tapakeg
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: WhiteHawk on February 24, 2004, 07:12:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by empty

Spying happens, been happening for 7000-years of recorded history.


So has counter-spying.  So we either need to say dual accounts is OK, or come up with some means to counter it.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Morpheus on February 24, 2004, 07:18:20 AM
Quote
So has counter-spying. So we either need to say dual accounts is OK, or come up with some means to counter it.


How bouts who really cares? I really dont think that there is much spying going on with multi accounts anyways... You make it seem like this is a very big problem. Can you show me otherwise?
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: ALF on February 24, 2004, 08:08:32 AM
With all this rampant spying going on, its amazing that my squad is ever able to take bases with under dar raids.....its even more amazing that we do it as a matter of regular squad ops, week in and week out.  On the same note, Ive got a litle issue with this whole spys ruining the game thing.  You can usually yell and scream for help with a huge bar dar and get minimal results....so just how are these spys anything more than a minor nusance...since noone would listen to them anyway.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: dedalos on February 24, 2004, 08:49:28 AM
Yes spying, if it is there is a bad thing.  

But just so I understand the problem better.  The complain is that you tryied to take a base and met with resistance?  Doesn't that make it more fun?  Would you rather take a base without a single shot fired in the air?  Just buildings?
:confused:
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Kanth on February 24, 2004, 09:40:36 AM
Good point.

Well, another option would be that building the NOE mission in the mission editor reinstates the "no see unless above dar" rule for all planes belonging to that mission.

Once they die, radar occurs as normal.



Quote
Originally posted by Furious
My bad.  It used to be like that.  

I prefer it the way it is now.  With that system there could be friendlies up defending a base under heavy attack, but you couldn't tell because a good deal of them might be on the deck fightin.  You'd see no dots and no bar and figure the base was overrun and a lost cause.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Furious on February 24, 2004, 12:30:56 PM
...or (hehehe) be clever.

Instead of a lemming horde, up 3-4 planes from 2 or 3 nearby fields and attack from different directions.  That won't stand out on the map as being a huge attack and might be overlooked.

Or, send out decoy missions.  Large groups to pull bad guys away from the real target.

Clever tactics to defeat the spy and the enemy.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Kanth on February 24, 2004, 01:47:38 PM
I don't think we have our sht together enough to coordinate that sort of an attack.

But for those that can, it's a good plan.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: TheManx on February 24, 2004, 01:51:14 PM
Hey Kanthies is back!!!
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Kanth on February 24, 2004, 02:51:20 PM
Hey Manxie! :D
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: TheManx on February 24, 2004, 05:37:27 PM
Good to see you back Kanth. Been in WWIIOL for the past month and a half, but stop by AH occasionally still. Next time I'm on, you should get some R&R and come wing up on the rooks side.
Title: Limit
Post by: kevykev56 on February 25, 2004, 10:13:34 PM
I think Tapakeg said it best. Once every 30 days, thats all the country changes you get to make. It would allow all the squads that change every month to continue to do so. However it would limit those who come over to cause disruptions and then go back the next day. It will also prevent large squads from sending 1 junior member over to spy, report, then return and send another over the next day. Just my $ .02

RHIN0
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Kanth on February 26, 2004, 07:47:58 PM
Thanks Manx, I'll probably not fly rook, they outnumber the other countries at times 2:1

I should be visiting WWIIOL tho pretty soon. Maybe see you in there  :)

Quote
Originally posted by TheManx
Good to see you back Kanth. Been in WWIIOL for the past month and a half, but stop by AH occasionally still. Next time I'm on, you should get some R&R and come wing up on the rooks side.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Cooley on February 27, 2004, 01:58:52 AM
In the game down the hall, If u were NoE,, you were hidden from friendly radar, that would help IMO
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: WhiteHawk on February 29, 2004, 07:48:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MoRphEuS
How bouts who really cares? I really dont think that there is much spying going on with multi accounts anyways... You make it seem like this is a very big problem. Can you show me otherwise?


Like I said.  If you dont care, then fine.  You certainly wont care if a bit of 'no-dar'/ 'no-wingman' rules are installed either, or will you?
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Morpheus on March 07, 2004, 10:33:23 PM
Quote
You certainly wont care if a bit of 'no-dar'/ 'no-wingman' rules are installed either, or will you?



Couldnt care less about dar... Its over rated in my opinion. And it makes up for what some lack in SA. Its there, I use it, but when its gone I use my eyes rather than clip board.


No-Wingman? Who cares? If I am winging with someone I will never leave him and he will never leave me. Simple as that.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: pwnorris on March 08, 2004, 02:07:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa

 On a clear sky condition w/o clouds, I can usually spot a NOE the moment the first con shows over the horizon - especially if the cons are coming over the sea. About 3 minutes before their arrival to the target destination. When I holler for help, people know that NOE planes are easy meat. They usually respond very quickly, and intercept most of the planes before they reach the target.  


I'll offer another possibility.  On one mission I flew we had an AR 234 hover outside of gun range for three quarters of our in-bound flight.  Needless to say we got slaughtered when we reached the target.  A spotter can do as much harm as a spy.  And, let's face it, even the best plans can be overcome by events.
Title: aka fuzzy 1,2,3
Post by: wrongwayric on March 17, 2004, 05:20:44 PM
LOL multiple user posts to the thread! Shot down fuzzy1 2 3 on the same mission one night in a b26! He obviously launched and controled all 3 of his planes and chased me for probably 20 minutes. I would shoot one down couple minutes later 2 would show then the same thing with 3. However i do give him credit for the use of the same name and labeling. That's the way to do it, make them announce the fact that it is a multiple account. At least fuzzy had the balz to do this and i salute him for that, (even if i did kill him 3 times LOL) good job there.
P.S. i was in the b26 he was in 3 fighters.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: moot on March 19, 2004, 07:46:25 AM
was that Fuzzy1, Fuzzy2 and Fuzzy3, or Fuzzy #1, Fuzzy #2 and Fuzzy #3?
Title: yes moot
Post by: wrongwayric on March 19, 2004, 08:42:04 AM
Yes was fuzzy1, fuzzy2, and fuzzy3. I have also seen others of the same labeling though different handles. Freaked me out the first time it happened.
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: Eagler on March 19, 2004, 09:35:32 AM
if the guy is hard up enough to pay double to cheat, let him
Title: ideas to twart dual account spies..
Post by: HavocTM on March 22, 2004, 09:47:10 AM
My squad has been doing some interesting research over the last month.  We have been comparing how much we get intercepted when posting a mission, versus how much we get intercepted when just meeting in the tower.

Our research pretty much bore out the following:

"Tower" missions almost never got intercepted.  Posted missions get intercepted about half the time.  This leads me to believe someone is watching for posted missions and letting their guys know where the mission is going.

We also discovered that announcing the mission channel on open channel 2 sometimes resulted in strange names (IE folks that never talk on open channel) tuning in to the mission freq, but not actually being IN the mission.

So here are some tips to thwart spies:

1 - If your mission is critical and not just for fun, have your squaddies just meet in the tower and take similar planes.

2 - Use frequency other than your squad channel for missions, and change it often.

3 - Watch for weird names to show up on mission vox channel and write them down and see if it happens more than once.

Overall, I think spying is not as commonplace as it is perceived, but I think it DOES happen.  While I am not defending it, because I do despise it, the act of spying is always present in real life wars, so in a twisted sort of way it actually 'adds' realism.  

:-)