Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: Fidd on February 16, 2004, 09:33:30 AM
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Hitech,
It would seem we have different conceptions of what constitutes a bug. I can appreciate this is your game, however, if you invite comment on bugs from the playerbase, it is only reasonable to expect occasionally the players perceptions to differ from yours.
That you seem unable to accept constructive criticism, at the beta stage, of really fundemental elements, can ultimately only be to HTC's detriment.
Your quote below, in bold, is missing the point. A more mature and intelligent response on your part might have been to measure the extent of the problem under discussion prior to determining that it would materially affect size or time issues.
In all likelihood, based on the aircraft I've seen roughly 1 in 8 aircraft sets would contain a bitmap where revision would benefit HTC in the long run. Nearly all of these revisions would require no additional new artwork whatsoever, that you do not have on file already.
I wish you luck with your game in the future. If this exchange is typical of others who have ventured honest opinions on AH, and I gather from several emails from erstwhile contributors that it is; then I rather think you'll need it.
Regards Fidd
Fidd simply this is a bug form, not a let's critique HTC's way of doing things. And I re read your first post one more time. Still have yet to see a bug in the post. It was nothing but a whine, then the last line in the post put it over the top.
So fidd what your saying is, we should delay AHII for a substantial amout of time, just so so you can modifie skins the way you wish to. Sorry that would not be a very wise discision on our part, and that dosn't address size issues.
Now this tread also does not belong here. So im closing it down.
HiTech
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Bug : An unwanted and unintended property of a program , esp. one that causes it to malfunction.
Do not confuse it with a misfeature.
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also from Mirriam-webster "a flaw or imperfection"
Originally posted by straffo
Bug : An unwanted and unintended property of a program , esp. one that causes it to malfunction.
Do not confuse it with a misfeature.
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Being a god nerd I use the Jargon file for this kind of definition :)
http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/
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Seems like my assumption from my coffe number 1 actualy hit it dead on the spot wouldnt you say. Atleast 50%.
straffo your allways correct :aok
Hitech has allready said he wont be changing the underlying model.
Though hitech, could you give me an answer if you will be allowing terrian editors to define more than 7 tiles in ah2? Because this is a huge limiting factor in aces high 1 when building a terrian.
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The point fidd it is not a flaw or inperfection. It just not the way YOU wish it.
But to view your lastes post as "CONSTRUCTIVE" is one of the fartherest streatches of the meaning I can fathom. Simply put to be constructive you have to show a little bit of respect in your post. You have shown none and do nothing but tair stuff down.
This is not constructive and simply becomes a "whine" the whine factor is why im jump on this stuff.
Your comming out with both barrles just to try get somthing in that you wish. Now your trying a new tatic of flaming me for the way I deal with out of line customers. I take critisim of my product day in day out. But when some turns critisims into insults, I simply don't always put up with it. This is one of those times.
HiTech
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:mad:
Damn i am never going to get that question answered bugger :( have to wait for ah2 editor then :(
:(
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F1Bomber: One of the nice new things about AH2 Terrains is it is no longer an expontial curv on adding tiles. Currently we are limited to the same set as AHI, but each in set it has 4 sub sets. I.E. as in 4 sub types of forest.
Changeing the tile is not as easy as AH1. Tiles are now compltly 3D and also encompase the trees and bushes and such so changing the underling texture can look strange. To change the 3D portion requires a 3D editor.
Ive been searching for a free or inexpensive one that has the needed items for AH but havn't been able to find a sutible one at this time.
How the final form of AHedit will be released is still some what up in the air. Currently im considering creating my own 3d editor that will only function in a very limited fasion and basicly alow you to create tiles from other smaller component objects.
HiTech
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"tone" goes a long way to build "constructive" discussion.
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Originally posted by F1Bomber
straffo your allways correct :aok
If the above statement is true I gonna get the next nobel prize :)
Sadly it's not likely to happen anyday :D
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Originally posted by hitech
Ive been searching for a free or inexpensive one that has the needed items for AH but havn't been able to find a sutible one at this time.
Have you looked Blender ?
http://www.blender.org/
it's scriptable using python but I've just played a little bit with it and I'm far from having the minimal artistic skills to produce anything better than smurfy or extremly horrible :)
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Thanks hitech for the reply it just give me the added information i needed to know about aces high 2.
Though i original thought that the new tile system was going to be tottaly 3D and not just 9 vertexs per tile.
On the question about a 3D editors, I want to originaly build a new 3D world editor for aces high 1 that has more functionality than the original version that htc allows people to download. On the release of aces high 2 this project was put onto the back burner until ah2 came out or i could get some extra information on how the new system worked before procceding.
I have allready creat a program called autolevel, its a nice little program that detects objects in the oba file and levels the terrian automaticaly for the person and also gif to field placement that allows the person to creat a 255 field map on a gif image and it will place all the fields for the user. This reduces the development time for maps by 10 fold.
I am intrested to know the requirements for this 3D editor, myself just getting into the 3D world of programing would like a challenge somthing like that :)
But if you want to do it all inhouse i understand, though it wont stop me from developing one.
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If you are searching and 3 CAD engine you can also lookup http://www.opencascade.org
There is even a Java wrapper
it sound sexy no ? ;)
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When is a bug not a bug?
Oh please stop it fidd, you'll just end up with this thread closed again
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In the original post, I laid out clearly the problem as I saw it clearly, suggested possible remedies, and gave an honest opinion on the B17 skin. That, by any standards is a constructively critical post. If it was a whine, or simply criticism, I would merely have said "it sucks". Which would not have been true in any case.
I suggest to you that had you "respected" my original post in the way it was intended, and written, you would not be feeling all "unrespected" now.
If you show no respect for your customers, you cannot expect to be shown respect by them, or indeed retain them, especially if you compound the foul-up by failing to at least listen to them when they tell you there are retrieavable problems.
If you still think this is an attempt to get the the B17 skinned "the way I wish it" you have really not understood the issue frankly. I am not arguing the point with you for my benefit one jot.
I know just how much artwork will get turned out by the community, which I rather think you are very much under-rating, both in quality and quantity. It is precisely because I understand built in inflexibilites are going to limit all of the after-market skinners that it is very important to audit the skins, and remove these few inflexibilites where possible; and the time to do is now, before doing so invalidates a library of new skins.
Now why don't you show you "have cattle to go with that hat" as it were by admitting that whilst we may disagree about the priority for an audit of AH2 skins by the players to design out inflexibilities, that it is a real issue, and that you could, frankly, have handled it a lot better.
We might well be only talking about 3 or 4 bitmaps total!
Originally posted by hitech
The point fidd it is not a flaw or inperfection. It just not the way YOU wish it.
But to view your lastes post as "CONSTRUCTIVE" is one of the fartherest streatches of the meaning I can fathom. Simply put to be constructive you have to show a little bit of respect in your post. You have shown none and do nothing but tair stuff down.
This is not constructive and simply becomes a "whine" the whine factor is why im jump on this stuff.
Your comming out with both barrles just to try get somthing in that you wish. Now your trying a new tatic of flaming me for the way I deal with out of line customers. I take critisim of my product day in day out. But when some turns critisims into insults, I simply don't always put up with it. This is one of those times.
HiTech
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The answere is no.
HiTech
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Hey fidd, did you know that in the dictionary under 'redundant' it says 'see redundant'?
We the game developers have to work within the same restrictions. What makes you think you can't? Just accept that this is the way things are going to have to be. It may not always be like that, but it's not going to change anytime soon. Move on, please!
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Fidd, it is my very sincere and honest opinion that you are an idiot. You bring nothing to these boards but an endless stream of incessant, antagonistic drivel that you liberally label as constructive criticism. I personally don't like this, and would therefore would like to put in a request that you drop whatever else you are doing this afternoon and schedule an appointment with a proctologist to have your head surgically removed from your anus. Perhaps then you will be able to recognize the difference between a bug and a design decision.
Please understand that I give you this constructive criticism only in the hope that it helps you become the best poster that you can possibly be.
Regards,
Gordo
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Thankyou Superfly for a civil response. I can certainly accept things are not going to change, provided a sufficiently compelling reason is advanced, and provided that reason is not advanced prior to the scale of the problem being ascertained. Otherwise it's just mere "cant" if you'll pardon the pun.
For the life of me I cannot see any logic whatsoever in Hitechs blanket refusal even to let the player/skinners audit the skins for ease of "reskinnablity", thus establishing the size of the percieved problem; before deciding whether or not it's practical to address.
I trust you are clear on the point I was not criticising the quality of the images, but rather the occasional re-use of some textures in critical areas. It is otherwise very fine work.
Regards Fidd
Originally posted by SUPERFLY
Hey fidd, did you know that in the dictionary under 'redundant' it says 'see redundant'?
We the game developers have to work within the same restrictions. What makes you think you can't? Just accept that this is the way things are going to have to be. It may not always be like that, but it's not going to change anytime soon. Move on, please!
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This is an age-old question and the answer is quite simple.
A bug is not a bug when it is a feature.
zippy
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I have known Fidd personally for nearly six years now, as a squaddie in AW and now in AH. I can tell you, he takes a great pride in his work and has turned out some great skins in AW in the past. In fact, he was the main creator of the Scenario Aircraft Converter (http://www3.mistral.co.uk/mthuff/index.html) in AW which totally transformed the game, taking it to new depths of gameplay and enhancing an otherwise fairly dull environment.
He has earned a great deal of respect in this field over the last 5 years, and I know that if he criticises something, its not to be awkward, but because he is something of a perfectionist! If he sees something which will detract from an otherwise perfect skin, he will voice his concerns rather than put up with second-best.
Now I don't claim to even begin to understand the technicalities of skin-making, but I do know that Fidd only means well in asking about what he sees as a short-coming. He only wants to be able to make the best skins for a great game!
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i agree flo. and i admire him too. however, perhaps a tad too much white bread got his dander up.
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Thankyou Superfly for a civil response. I can certainly accept things are not going to change, provided a sufficiently compelling reason is advanced, and provided that reason is not advanced prior to the scale of the problem being ascertained. Otherwise it's just mere "cant" if you'll pardon the pun.
Why on earth would we have to ever justify anything we decide to you.
HiTech
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yuppers. i think it's all grand 'cept when customers snipe at the business owner.
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fidd even i can tell your pushing your luck abit too far, quit well your behind mate.
F6Bomber.
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hitech time to lock this one too?
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Someone has mistaken being good at something for being an absolute authority on it.
Flossy, it's not about how good or bad someone is at something. It's about how much criticism the levy on other people doing the same thing. And feeling that somehow, that criticism should be more valued than other people's. This is not the time to be defending an old friend flossy. He's simply taken a very bad aproach to things... an undefendable one.
MiniD
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I hate mondays.
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Originally posted by NATEDOG
I hate mondays.
Not keen on them myself..... ;)
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(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/nerdfest6.jpg)
(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/badger2.jpg)
(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/nerdfest6.jpg)
(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/badger2.jpg)
(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/nerdfest6.jpg)
(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/badger2.jpg)
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(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/nerdfest6.jpg)
(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/badger2.jpg)
(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/nerdfest6.jpg)
(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/badger2.jpg)
(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/nerdfest6.jpg)
(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/badger2.jpg)
bah
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(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/XXLBOX.jpg)
lol the xbox is huge
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You need therapy Frogm4n.
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ROFL FROG
:rofl :rofl :rofl :lol :lol :lol
I have no idea why I'm laughing so hard. The whole animal and facial expression thing was so random and it cracked me up.
And yes, you do need therapy, but that just made me laugh for some reason.
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When is a bug not a bug?
Oooh! oooh! I know this one! It's a spider! Most people call spiders bugs, but they are not insects, they are arachnids! What do I win?
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in fact, if its a true bug, you could refer to it as belonging to the order Heteroptera, or perhaps the old Hemiptera. Not to be mistaken with homoptera which are not in fact considered 'true' bugs.
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Originally posted by ergRTC
Not to be mistaken with homoptera which are not in fact considered 'true' bugs.
Just because they chose an alternative lifestyle is no reason to discriminate against them. They are still bugs. Geez, don’t be such a homophobe.
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hehehe
homoptera (not really a bug), you tell me if you think it has an alternative lifestyle ;)
(http://biodiversity.georgetown.edu/searchfiles/picture.cfm?IDnumber=886&image=1)
heteroptera (really a bug)
(http://biodiversity.georgetown.edu/searchfiles/picture.cfm?IDnumber=1713&image=1)
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Originally posted by Flossy
In fact, he was the main creator of the Scenario Aircraft Converter (http://www3.mistral.co.uk/mthuff/index.html) in AW which totally transformed the game, taking it to new depths of gameplay and enhancing an otherwise fairly dull environment.
I agree it was one of the Biggest and most popular improvements to AW in its final years and Fidd did a superb job on transforming the whole look of the game.
G42UK (slips into obscurity for another 5 years)
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Originally posted by Flossy
He has earned a great deal of respect in this field over the last 5 years, and I know that if he criticises something, its not to be awkward, but because he is something of a perfectionist! If he sees something which will detract from an otherwise perfect skin, he will voice his concerns rather than put up with second-best.
Talented individuals should have no trouble, nor hesitation to work around such issues. Take guitarists that break strings for example. They discover chords they would never have tried if they didn't work around the flaw. Ultimatly contributing to the overall quality of their efforts.
Be glad someone was nice enough to provide you with a medium for which to be recognized.