Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MC_Honky on February 17, 2004, 02:08:15 PM
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If I want to fly next tour for fighter rank then what ride should I be in? I guess what I'm asking is -does the formula for fighter rank take "eny" values into account or should I be in a La-7 next tour?
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Fly a lot and it won't matter.
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
If I want to fly next tour for fighter rank then what ride should I be in? I guess what I'm asking is -does the formula for fighter rank take "eny" values into account or should I be in a La-7 next tour?
The number of times you die does matter. I would recomend any plane that will allow you to disengage when you get in troble. LA7 will do that for you. The 51 is good for that also, but you have to use your brain a little more, not as easy as LA7. In anycase, you will need a fast ride to get away if you get in troble. 109G10 and 190s are good also.
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Ya but do you get more credit for a higher eny plane?
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
Ya but do you get more credit for a higher eny plane?
No, not as far as fighter rank is concerned. ENY only influences the number of perk points you receive.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Ok-the following make up your fighter rank:
Kills / Deaths + 1
Kills / Sorties
Kills / Hour
Hit percentage
Points
What is Points? Always thought that had to do with ENY values?
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scorring (http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/scoring.html)
For a detail explination of the formulas.
HiTech
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
If I want to fly next tour for fighter rank then what ride should I be in? I guess what I'm asking is -does the formula for fighter rank take "eny" values into account or should I be in a La-7 next tour?
Speed isn't absolutely necessary if you have great SA. There's alot of sub 100 Ranked Fighter pilots out there who fly nothing but SpitV's and Niki's. You either have to kill alot of enemy in a short period of time thus jacking up your Kills/Time, or fly very smart and engage very discriminately enhancing your Kills/Deaths. Kills/Deaths and Kills/Time at the upper end of the spectrum are almost mutually exclusive, so it's usually best to choose which one you are going to focus on and stick to mission types that intrinsically enhance that area (ie: base/carrier defense enhances Kills/Time but can negatively effect Kills/Deaths).
In a Nutshell:
Killing quickly means you generally won't be killing very carefully.
Killing carefully means you generally won't be killing very quickly.
Zazen
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
Ok-the following make up your fighter rank:
Take into consideration that all these factors give you a relative rank to the other players, so, you should consider the tendency of most players in every factor.
As an example player A has:
K/D 4.0 and is ranked 80
K/H 10.0 and is ranked 90
K/S 3 and is ranked 200
Hit% 10 and is ranked 100
points 20000 and is ranked 100
Player B has:
K/D 400.0 and is ranked 1
K/H 1 and is ranked 1200
K/S 80 and is ranked 1
Hit% 40 and is ranked 1
points 500000 and is ranked 1
Overal fighter rank of player A will be better than player B.
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Originally posted by MC_Honky [/B]
What is Points? Always thought that had to do with ENY values? [/B]
From the AH help:
Air points = PlaneDamageScore + KillScore
PlaneDamageScore =
(DamagePointsScoredOnEnemiesTh isSortie * DeathMult) +
TotalTourPlaneDamageScoredOnE nemies
KillScore =
((AirKillsThisSortie * 1.0) + (AirAssistsThisSortie * 0.25) +
(GroundKillsThisSortie * 1.0) + (GroundAssistsThisSortie * 0.25) * DeathMult) +
TotalTourKillScore
Death Multipliers
Landed 1.0
Discoed .25
Bailed .5
Ditched .75
Captured .4
Killed .25
Crashed .25
ENY only matters for perk points, not score.
My advice: Fly for score a few tours. Then forget about score, have fun, and become a better pilot.
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Flying for Score is fun for me right now. That and spamming channel 1 make the $14.95 worth it.
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Originally posted by GODO
Take into consideration that all these factors give you a relative rank to the other players, so, you should consider the tendency of most players in every factor.
As an example player A has:
K/D 4.0 and is ranked 80
K/H 10.0 and is ranked 90
K/S 3 and is ranked 200
Hit% 10 and is ranked 100
points 20000 and is ranked 100
Player B has:
K/D 400.0 and is ranked 1
K/H 1 and is ranked 1200
K/S 80 and is ranked 1
Hit% 40 and is ranked 1
points 500000 and is ranked 1
Overal fighter rank of player A will be better than player B.
This is very accurate and shows very clearly that those who fly to survive are not necessarily rank or score potatos, if anything we're realism potatos. Flying with K/D in mind is generally not conducive to the highest possible rank/score. Flying to kill the most amount of enemy in the shortest period of time is actually the best and easiest way to achieve the highest possible rank/score. Killing as quickly as possible with little regard to survival is very very un-realistic. So, if we want to label a type of player that is "Gaming the Game",I'll give you a hint, it sure as hell isn't the survivalists.:aok
Zazen
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For those of you who have ADD, like me, you will want to take the fast planes (G10, Tiffie, 109d9) etc. to shorten the time between deaths. Unfortunately, the deaths are usually mine.
Then you can fly...
Did you see that car? That was cool. Wait, what was I saying?
Oh yeah, you can fly...
Oh my gosh, it is 4:20 already, time to take my ADD pills. Anyway, so I was telling this guy about the new Intel processor and...
Oh wait, you can fly fast and get over to the fight and die faster. Don't you hate how many commercials they have on talk radio these days? The internet is cool. I think I will finish my basement bathroom this weekend.
Wait...
What were we talking about?
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Zazen, the score is designed to follow the "way of fight" of the majority of the players. That is, if 90% of players play for K/D, then K/D will be a mandatory factor for scoring, if next month 90% of the players play for K/H, then this will be the mandatory factor, and so on. Of course, most players play just to have some kills as soon as possible, surviving doesnt matter, so K/H is mandatory while K/D is secondary.
Independently of working for K/D, long range missions (sweeps, caps, buff interception or whatever) imply a lot of time, and not all the times you get more than a single kill. Actual scoring system punishes that kind of missions, while these are just the most reallistic ones.
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Originally posted by GODO
Zazen, the score is designed to follow the "way of fight" of the majority of the players. That is, if 90% of players play for K/D, then K/D will be a mandatory factor for scoring, if next month 90% of the players play for K/H, then this will be the mandatory factor, and so on. Of course, most players play just to have some kills as soon as possible, surviving doesnt matter, so K/H is mandatory while K/D is secondary.
Independently of working for K/D, long range missions (sweeps, caps, buff interception or whatever) imply a lot of time, and not all the times you get more than a single kill. Actual scoring system punishes that kind of missions, while these are just the most reallistic ones.
Yup, I've written several essays on this very topic. I agree with you 100%.
Zazen
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Zazen,
To make even more realistic, when you get killed, log-off, cancel your account and never comeback.
Being able to "die" 100 times is no less gamey than being able to "die" 10 times. It just happens to be something you like to pat yourself on the back about.
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Originally posted by Furious
Zazen,
To make even more realistic, when you get killed, log-off, cancel your account and never comeback.
Being able to "die" 100 times is no less gamey than being able to "die" 10 times. It just happens to be something you like to pat yourself on the back about.
Lol, I've only heard this argument 80 million times. Obviously, you don't actually die. The intention makes all the difference. Flying to live is merely an emulation of tactics that most closely resembles what actually took place during ww2. Flying with no regard for your virtual life creates situations that bear little or no resemblance to the type or character of the fighting that actually took place in ww2.
Naturally, getting to re-plane after a virtual death is unrealistic, but striving to fly as though the life you are on is your only one makes each sortie as realistic as possible and as valid as another from that perspective.
To a survivalist, dying in combat is a critical failure. I often log-off review the film and see where I made the critical error in judgement. For a "fly till you die" pilot, a death is just a quicker trip to the tower to quickly hop into another plane to die again.
Who is learning more from their virtual death? The guy who dies 10 times a night and thinks nothing about it? Knowing he dove headlong into that furball resigned to his fate of eventually getting overwhelmed or cherry picked or the pilot who dies only 10 times an entire camp who reviews the events leading up to each demise with the determination to not repeat the same mistake twice?
The point is, it's not the finality, or lack thereof, of the virtual death that creates the realism, it's the entirely different mindset and approach to the game that creates it.
Zazen
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Furious is a good La5 pilot. :)
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Originally posted by Steve
Furious is a good La5 pilot. :)
Cool! :cool:
Zazen
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No such thing as a good la5 pilot. The plane is super cheeze.
Die once, die a hundred times. I don't care. It's 14.95 a month either way. I just wish you would stop acting like it matters. It can't.
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I just wish you would stop acting like it matters. It can't.
Forgive my poor intellect, I do not understand.
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I was speaking to Zazen and I could've chosen to say that it "doesn't" matter. But saying "doesn't" means that it could, but in this instance does not. So I chose to say "can't".
Anything more than 1 death is not realistic. Trying to not die again cannot be a more realistic approach.
Just say, "This is the way I have chosen to play this game. I enjoy this method more than the other different and equally valid ways of playing this game.", and I will slap you a hoopty big high five and we can get back to the fun.
...or not. I already stopped caring. Have fun.
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Originally posted by Furious
Zazen,
To make even more realistic, when you get killed, log-off, cancel your account and never comeback.
Being able to "die" 100 times is no less gamey than being able to "die" 10 times. It just happens to be something you like to pat yourself on the back about.
Easier cure would be to have scores reset to zero when you die. Of course, HT would never hear the end of the whines if he did that :D.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Easier cure would be to have scores reset to zero when you die. Of course, HT would never hear the end of the whines if he did that :D.
Survivalists don't play for score or rank, we play for the realism. I'd fly the exact same way if there were no scores whatsoever. If it was score or rank I was after I'd just jump into furballs and take 4 or 5 guys to the grave with me, rinse and repeat. Flying to live requires alot more time, patience and discipline, score or rank is nowhere near enough incentive to put in that kind of effort. We do it because cultivating the skills required to be a successful airiel tactician is very realistic and rewarding in and of itself.
Zazen
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Good luck with yur goal MC... Just a peice of addvise. A good rank is like the cover of a book. There are many excellent sticks in the game who have 100+ rank as fighter. Then again, what is a good stick? We all have our opinions on that. I wont bother getting into it any further... Learn everything you posibly can about ACM and how to use it. To me, in my opinion its the most important part of the game; for me... If its E fighting, Turn fighting, you will need to use it (ACM). E fighting is alot of fun. Some call it playing alot monkey. But you dont need to be at 20K to E Fight. And a good choice for an E fighter would be the P51. There are tons of good E fighters to chose from, thats my first choice every time. Its very fast, turns great in comparison with other E Fighters, dives like a champ, guns are great once you learn how to shoot them, and it holds E fairly well. Like I said, there are many great E fighters in the game, try them all and one is bound to suit your needs and flying style.
and good luck
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Originally posted by Furious
I was speaking to Zazen and I could've chosen to say that it "doesn't" matter. But saying "doesn't" means that it could, but in this instance does not. So I chose to say "can't".
Anything more than 1 death is not realistic. Trying to not die again cannot be a more realistic approach.
Just say, "This is the way I have chosen to play this game. I enjoy this method more than the other different and equally valid ways of playing this game.", and I will slap you a hoopty big high five and we can get back to the fun.
...or not. I already stopped caring. Have fun.
Do whatever keeps you wanting to pay HTC your 15 bucks a month.
Perverting the survivalist's ideals to the hideous extreme to feed your side of the argument is just rediculous. Of course we all realize this is a virtual reality and you do not actually die. The simple fact is, like it or not, some of us prefer to treat it more like a simulation than an arcade game. It's just that simple. Niether approach is somehow superior to the other, it's just a very dichotomous view of the same animal.
Zazen
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Is it me or do these threads about rank tend to get way off topic?
Just a simple questioin... As you were:)
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Is it me or do these threads about rank tend to get way off topic?
Just a simple questioin... As you were:)
Keeps things spicy until AH2 goes live ;)
Zazen :cool:
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We need a lot of spice- AHII wont go live for 3 more years at this rate.
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
We need a lot of spice- AHII wont go live for 3 more years at this rate.
All good things come to those who wait :aok
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
If I want to fly next tour for fighter rank then what ride should I be in? I guess what I'm asking is -does the formula for fighter rank take "eny" values into account or should I be in a La-7 next tour?
Yep, the La7 is a good bet for that fighter rank. ;) Why not? It works for Shane! :lol
Also note that about 90% of guys who rank in the top 100 make substantial use of the P51/La7/Spit ix subset. Very few do it in P40/Spit 1a/109E etc. But oh! it's the pilot, not the plane...
... yeah, right. :aok
:rolleyes:
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beetle i got to 76 in fighter with half of my kills in a hurri1 some tours ago. ;) Was gonna try and have all my fighter kills in a hurri 1 but it just got so boring with some maps. It was fine at first but when certain maps got rotated it was pointless. 15 mins flying time to get a fight, often it dissipating before you arrive. It was not fun on some maps at all.
Hmmm....may give it another go when festerMA comes up.:)
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Beet1e, why don't you get in an la7 for a tour and see where you place?
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Do what 2/3rds of the high ranked guys do,
Fly no more than ten sorties and land all the kills you can :D
Rank means nothing if you have less than 20 Fighter hours or under 150 sorties, a tour.
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managed to finish at 51 one tour flying fm2.
Phantom4
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I've fought your FM2 phantom.. I believe it.
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Originally posted by Steve
Beet1e, why don't you get in an la7 for a tour and see where you place?
No need! I'm happy with the USN planes. :)
No need for EasyMode
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In other words Beet, you have no experience in spending a tour in the la7 so really have no personal knowledge of how such a plane would effect ranking, having never actually performed such tests yourself.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Also note that about 90% of guys who rank in the top 100 make substantial use of the P51/La7/Spit ix subset. Very few do it in P40/Spit 1a/109E etc. But oh! it's the pilot, not the plane...
... yeah, right. :aok
:rolleyes:
;)
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Originally posted by thrila
beetle i got to 76 in fighter with half of my kills in a hurri1 some tours ago. ;) Was gonna try and have all my fighter kills in a hurri 1 but it just got so boring with some maps. It was fine at first but when certain maps got rotated it was pointless. 15 mins flying time to get a fight, often it dissipating before you arrive. It was not fun on some maps at all.
Hmmm....may give it another go when festerMA comes up.:)
I've got to concur with this from personal experience. No plane is a substitute for ACM, gunnery and SA. If a pilot has superb skill in these three areas he could probably rank decently in a golf cart with wings and two 50 cals.
That being said however, it is just natural to fly the best possible plane that suits your particular style in order to even further maximize your effectiveness. Not everyone feels the need to handicap themselves with inferior aircraft relative to the ones their opponents are using. It's fun to do from time to time, but all things considered, most of us just want to kick as much arse as possible. That usually means flying the high performance rides.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Steve
In other words Beet, you have no experience in spending a tour in the la7 so really have no personal knowledge of how such a plane would effect ranking, having never actually performed such tests yourself.
Urchin nailed it when he said words to this effect a while back: "There's a reason why so many people choose the P51/La7/Spit ix subset of planes, and we all know what that reason is."
You suggested that I fly La7 for a tour. Why don't you fly any non-P51 plane for a tour, and see how you do?
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Urchin nailed it when he said words to this effect a while back: "There's a reason why so many people choose the P51/La7/Spit ix subset of planes, and we all know what that reason is."
No I don't enlighten us.
Maybe hmmm an LA7/51 because I'm tired of all the runstang homos and I'm going to catch them and kill them this time instead of watch them run or how about the bases are so potato peeling far apart that flying anything that can't go 400 MPH is just potato peelin boring...
Maybe a spit, becuase I am a knight and the norm is upping at a base where I am outnumbered 3 to one most of the time and I need something that is nimble and can turn.
There are many reasons for flying these planes and the people that cry about them should put the pacifier back in their mouths and STFU:D :rofl
For the people that only fly these, well you are missing out on alot of fun that the other planes offer.
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You suggested that I fly La7 for a tour. Why don't you fly any non-P51 plane for a tour, and see how you do?
Well Beet, would kills in a spitV, 38, or A8 be any different than a 51?
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I have flown whole tours in a zeke, and other slow early and mid war planes, but I fly FM2 more than any other, I just like it. Unlike Zazen, I am a masochist and enjoy seeing if I can win in an inferior plane. I realize I mostly T n B and have a mediocre K/D. But I defend capped bases, fight every disadvantaged fight I can get myself into ( must be some "Don Quixote" complex - you know "fight the unbeatable foe"). I have flown P51's for a night or two and killed 20 or 30 to no losses but I just found it BORING. Fly for rank for a tour or two, fly to survive for awhile, fly to win from the most disadvantaged positions, try them all and have a ball because in the end that is what I spend my $15 for.
Phantom4
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Originally posted by Phantom4-Mag33
I have flown whole tours in a zeke, and other slow early and mid war planes, but I fly FM2 more than any other, I just like it. Unlike Zazen, I am a masochist and enjoy seeing if I can win in an inferior plane. I realize I mostly T n B and have a mediocre K/D. But I defend capped bases, fight every disadvantaged fight I can get myself into ( must be some "Don Quixote" complex - you know "fight the unbeatable foe"). I have flown P51's for a night or two and killed 20 or 30 to no losses but I just found it BORING. Fly for rank for a tour or two, fly to survive for awhile, fly to win from the most disadvantaged positions, try them all and have a ball because in the end that is what I spend my $15 for.
Phantom4
Carefull with the stero-types, I've flown every plane in the set except for the La7 and have a positive K/D ratio in all of them (except the 262!?!? I hate jets). Just because I choose not to fly disadvantaged if I can help it doesn't mean I do not have the skill to do it successfully if I choose to. In an arena packed with 500+ people you are going to get into disadvantaged situations enough as it is without going out of your way to get into them. While I do not generally fly many early war rides nowadays I also conscientiously avoid flying the Big 4 (Niki/Spitty/Pony/Lala).
Zazen
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You are taking it the wrong way, You may be great in any plane. I am only saying I don't fly to survive whereas you by your statements do. I respect that, just showing the contrast. I have no qualms with how anyone flys --- It's their $15 they should spend their time as they see fit. I don't think you will every see me complain about late model planes, LA7's, cannon toters, niki's, spits, HO's, vulching (or being vulched) or any other aspect of the game because after all it is just a game and when I get frustrated (as we all do from time to time) I just log and do something else. No flames intended.
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Originally posted by Phantom4-Mag33
You are taking it the wrong way, You may be great in any plane. I am only saying I don't fly to survive whereas you by your statements do. I respect that, just showing the contrast. I have no qualms with how anyone flys --- It's their $15 they should spend their time as they see fit. I don't think you will every see me complain about late model planes, LA7's, cannon toters, niki's, spits, HO's, vulching (or being vulched) or any other aspect of the game because after all it is just a game and when I get frustrated (as we all do from time to time) I just log and do something else. No flames intended.
Ok, I see where you are coming from and it's just a "different strokes for different folks issue". I think flying to survive, while seemingly boring to some, is actually more exciting LONG term to people like myself. I get my rocks off getting on lengthy kill streaks without dying. These streaks may last days or even weeks of continously flying and killing without a death.
On the other hand, someone like yourself flies with just the one mission in mind, there's no real connective tissue in your mind between this mission and the next. It's a more immediate and SHORT term fun. Every hop is a seperate and distict experience for you, whereas for a survivalist the interval between deaths is a 'career' of sorts in a role-playing sense where each mission is more or less a logical continuation of the next.
I totally understand your persepctive and sometimes I'll have a camp where I just do as you do, but I personally get bored just doing that, something in my personality requires more long-term objectives. It's hard to explain. I found a long-time ago just killing is rather easy regardless of the style of play, to hold my interest I had to set more lofty goals for myself, that is in essence how I became a K/D dweeb.
Zazen
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That is it exactly! I also set lofty goals like maintaining a 2 K/d and 15K/h flying a slow under gunned airframe. It probably an ADHD kinda thing .........;)
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Originally posted by ra
Fly a lot and it won't matter.
That statement is total nonsense.
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
If I want to fly next tour for fighter rank then what ride should I be in? I guess what I'm asking is -does the formula for fighter rank take "eny" values into account or should I be in a La-7 next tour?
Fly the plane that YOU fly the best.
It often takes time to get used to a particular plane. There likely is a plane out there that is better for you than the one that you are flying now, but it may take a tour or two for you to learn the plane well enough to fly it to the best of your abilities. Switching gun platforms takes some getting used to as well. If you are only used to Allied 50s, and you switch to German cannons, you're going to have to relearn how to shoot.
If you really want to play for rank, you should look at your ranking in the individual sub-categories. If you fly a fast energy plane and your K/D is high but K/T is low, you should consider flying more of a turn-&-burn plane and mix it up a bit more often. Likewise, if your K/T is high but K/D is low, then you may need to find a plane that will let you escape more often.
eskimo
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Speed isn't absolutely necessary if you have great SA. There's alot of sub 100 Ranked Fighter pilots out there who fly nothing but SpitV's and Niki's. You either have to kill alot of enemy in a short period of time thus jacking up your Kills/Time, or fly very smart and engage very discriminately enhancing your Kills/Deaths. Kills/Deaths and Kills/Time at the upper end of the spectrum are almost mutually exclusive, so it's usually best to choose which one you are going to focus on and stick to mission types that intrinsically enhance that area (ie: base/carrier defense enhances Kills/Time but can negatively effect Kills/Deaths).
In a Nutshell:
Killing quickly means you generally won't be killing very carefully.
Killing carefully means you generally won't be killing very quickly.
Zazen
Actually it seems that K/S (kills per sortie) doesn't have much stiff competition. K/D has gotten a lot tougher to come into under 100 (in that rank alone) in, but I think a lot of the people with really high K/D have really low K/S scores still. Be a good way for someone with a low K/T to get their rank up.