Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Thrawn on February 21, 2004, 06:48:45 AM
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"From fridays Globe and Mail coverage
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Diplomats look into cross-border police chase
Officers who pursued truck may be charged in incident that killed Canadian bystander
By GLORIA GALLOWAY
Friday, February 20, 2004 - Page A7
Canadian officials are considering diplomatic action after four American police cruisers chased a stolen pickup through a border station in Niagara Falls and continued their pursuit into the busy tourist town before the truck struck and killed a female bystander.
The U.S. officers involved, members of the force in neighbouring Niagara Falls, N.Y., could be charged as a result of the incident, which occurred just after dark on Wednesday, sources said late yesterday.
Constable Richard Geady of the Niagara Region Police said that if charges are laid in Canada, they "would be a violation of our general orders to continue on."
Friends say it was Laurie Bishop, a 40-year-old mother of two daughters, who was rammed by the fleeing vehicle as she stepped out of a parked car.
The truck kept on going, leaving Ms. Bishop dying in a pool of blood, then collided with a snowbank and a parking meter before coming to a stop.
The driver, who was brandishing a gun, jumped out and fled on foot. He was eventually wrestled to the ground by a constable from the Niagara Region force, but not before taking a shot in the officer's direction.
U.S. police are not permitted to chase suspects into Canada, said Reynald Doiron, a spokesman for the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs.
"Both sides fully recognize the importance of respecting each other's authority and national sovereignty," Mr. Doiron said.
"The government is not taking this incident lightly. We will be carefully reviewing all the facts before determining an appropriate course of action."
Officials from various sources said a diplomatic representation regarding the violation of sovereignty could be made as early as today.
One customs official, who asked not to be identified, said the American police did not radio ahead as is the protocol in cross-border chases, and customs agents were in shock when the truck and four cruisers zoomed through the crossing.
The truck, which had been stolen minutes earlier from a telephone repairman in Niagara Falls, N.Y., crashed through the barrier arm that was closed over the bus lane of the inspection station with two police cars in pursuit. Two other cruisers drove through regular inspection lanes, which were open at the time. One of them stopped as it arrived in Canadian territory; the others roared half a kilometre up the road before rounding a corner and vanishing from the sight of the customs guards.
Constable Geady said the American officers were told to stop a short time later and did so, then returned to the border.
Police Lieutenant Robert Rosati of Niagara Falls, N.Y., said his force would make no comment about the incident until this afternoon, but officials of the two forces apparently met in a closed-door meeting yesterday.
The issue for customs agents "is that any one of us could have got struck by the vehicle or God knows what could have happened. And then the issue extends to obvious disregard for Canadian sovereignty," said Ron Moran, the national president of the Customs and Excise Union.
"The number of jurisdictional infractions that would have been committed by the police officers would be countless. All you have to do is try to imagine if Canadian officers had done this on the U.S. side. The whole border would have been shut down across the country."
Cornelius Cross, 38, a U.S. resident, has been charged with impaired driving causing the death of Ms. Bishop and attempted murder in relation to the shot fired at the police officer.
Ms. Bishop, a former resident of New Jersey, returned to Niagara Falls with her husband and daughters a couple of years ago to be near her mother. She worked at the deli counter in a grocery store.
"She was a wonderful, wonderful girl," said Sue Korz, one of her co-workers.
The incident that claimed her life began on Wednesday afternoon when a woman walked into a police station in nearby Buffalo, N.Y., and said she had been held hostage by her boyfriend for several days after he pulled a gun on her during an argument.
According to police, the boyfriend then hijacked a car, forcing the driver into the trunk, and drove to Niagara Falls, N.Y., where he developed a flat tire.
Leaving the man in the trunk, he fled the scene and came across a telephone worker who was up a pole doing repairs. The worker was forced off the pole at gunpoint and his truck was stolen.
Police from Niagara Falls, N.Y., chased it and continued their pursuit into Canada."
Unfreakingbelievable. :mad:
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"N.Y. police chief defends border chase cops
Last Updated Sat, 21 Feb 2004 0:38:39
ST. CATHARINES, ONT. - A New York police chief defended his officers Friday after Canadian officials criticized a high-speed chase through an Ontario border crossing.
Niagara Falls Chief John Chella said he fully supported the officers' actions, which he said were justified.
"I am fully convinced that this situation warranted such circumstances," said Chella.
FROM FEB. 20, 2004 Woman killed in cross-border car chase
Late Wednesday night, a man from New York state drove a pickup truck through a tollgate on the American side of the Rainbow Bridge.
A U.S. police cruiser followed the truck into Canada, where the driver smashed into parked cars, killing a 40-year-old woman. A man was arrested and faces multiple charges, including impaired driving causing death.
Monte Kwinter, Ontario's Community Safety minister, called the incident "totally inexcusable," saying U.S. officers didn't follow protocol.
"There was supposed to be a protocol when they try and get into Canada to let border officials know. They didn't do that," said Kwinter.
Ron Moran, with Canada Customs, agreed with Kwinter.
"They are supposed to radio in ahead or call in that they have a chase that they believe will cross the border so that the other side can prepare itself," said Moran.
A joint investigation will be held by Niagara Falls New York Police, Niagara Police and Canada Customs."
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/02/21/ny_chase040221
Un****ingbelievable. :mad:
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Very sad about the innocent lady. :(
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The story wasn't clear, did they halt the pursuit before the lady was hit? Do border officials usually let them through when they radio ahead?
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"high speek chase" does that mean they were all talking fast?
:D
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blame/punish Mr Cross - may I suggest the death penalty?
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I would blame the cops that folowed.
They crossed into a different coutry. they had no athorty in cananda. This is not the same as crossing state lines.
They should throw the book at them.
edit.
.
I miss read the article..
I thought it said that the cops hit the women while chasing the man.
After re reading it. the only thing the cops should get into trouble for is running the border
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Unfreakingbelievable. :mad: [/B]
Gives you another reason to hate Ameerika, Thrawn (like you needed some)
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Originally posted by Trell
I would blame the cops that folowed.
They crossed into a different coutry. they had no athorty in cananda. This is not the same as crossing state lines.
They should throw the book at them.
Of course you would. It's never the criminal's fault.
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BTW, if you read some of the other news stories that Thrawn posted on AGW: http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30622
You'll see the the US cops stopped after a few hundred feet from the border. They did not go chasing this guy all over Canada. The accident happened later. The US cops did not pursue this guy at high speed into the car of the victim.
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US cops break through border in high speek chase, Canadian kill
The Cops didn't kill the women the bad guy did. Do you really need to distort the facts to feign outrage?
Originally posted on AGW by Booker
Diplomats look into cross-border police chase
Officers who pursued truck may be charged in incident that killed Canadian bystander
By GLORIA GALLOWAY
Friday, February 20, 2004 - Page A7
Canadian officials are considering diplomatic action after four American police cruisers chased a stolen pickup through a border station in Niagara Falls and continued their pursuit into the busy tourist town before the truck struck and killed a female bystander.
The U.S. officers involved, members of the force in neighbouring Niagara Falls, N.Y., could be charged as a result of the incident, which occurred just after dark on Wednesday, sources said late yesterday.
Constable Richard Geady of the Niagara Region Police said that if charges are laid in Canada, they "would be a violation of our general orders to continue on."
Friends say it was Laurie Bishop, a 40-year-old mother of two daughters, who was rammed by the fleeing vehicle as she stepped out of a parked car.
The truck kept on going, leaving Ms. Bishop dying in a pool of blood, then collided with a snowbank and a parking meter before coming to a stop.
The driver, who was brandishing a gun, jumped out and fled on foot. He was eventually wrestled to the ground by a constable from the Niagara Region force, but not before taking a shot in the officer's direction.
U.S. police are not permitted to chase suspects into Canada, said Reynald Doiron, a spokesman for the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs.
"Both sides fully recognize the importance of respecting each other's authority and national sovereignty," Mr. Doiron said.
"The government is not taking this incident lightly. We will be carefully reviewing all the facts before determining an appropriate course of action."
Officials from various sources said a diplomatic representation regarding the violation of sovereignty could be made as early as today.
One customs official, who asked not to be identified, said the American police did not radio ahead as is the protocol in cross-border chases, and customs agents were in shock when the truck and four cruisers zoomed through the crossing.
The truck, which had been stolen minutes earlier from a telephone repairman in Niagara Falls, N.Y., crashed through the barrier arm that was closed over the bus lane of the inspection station with two police cars in pursuit. Two other cruisers drove through regular inspection lanes, which were open at the time. One of them stopped as it arrived in Canadian territory; the others roared half a kilometre up the road before rounding a corner and vanishing from the sight of the customs guards.
Constable Geady said the American officers were told to stop a short time later and did so, then returned to the border.
Police Lieutenant Robert Rosati of Niagara Falls, N.Y., said his force would make no comment about the incident until this afternoon, but officials of the two forces apparently met in a closed-door meeting yesterday.
The issue for customs agents "is that any one of us could have got struck by the vehicle or God knows what could have happened. And then the issue extends to obvious disregard for Canadian sovereignty," said Ron Moran, the national president of the Customs and Excise Union.
"The number of jurisdictional infractions that would have been committed by the police officers would be countless. All you have to do is try to imagine if Canadian officers had done this on the U.S. side. The whole border would have been shut down across the country."
Cornelius Cross, 38, a U.S. resident, has been charged with impaired driving causing the death of Ms. Bishop and attempted murder in relation to the shot fired at the police officer.
Ms. Bishop, a former resident of New Jersey, returned to Niagara Falls with her husband and daughters a couple of years ago to be near her mother. She worked at the deli counter in a grocery store.
"She was a wonderful, wonderful girl," said Sue Korz, one of her co-workers.
The incident that claimed her life began on Wednesday afternoon when a woman walked into a police station in nearby Buffalo, N.Y., and said she had been held hostage by her boyfriend for several days after he pulled a gun on her during an argument.
According to police, the boyfriend then hijacked a car, forcing the driver into the trunk, and drove to Niagara Falls, N.Y., where he developed a flat tire.
Leaving the man in the trunk, he fled the scene and came across a telephone worker who was up a pole doing repairs. The worker was forced off the pole at gunpoint and his truck was stolen.
Police from Niagara Falls, N.Y., chased it and continued their pursuit into Canada
You see the bad American cowboy cops didn't kill her. When told to stop they did. They violated the border so what, it happens everyday by citizens from both countries.
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Dune isn't "hundred feet" a pretty elastic definition of border ?
btw using an argument like : policeman where doing there job is a no go , by trepassing/violating a border they were criminal too.
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Well, having read the AGW series I have to ask.
Just how far into Canada did the NY officers top and turn around Judge Thrawn?
How long / how far after the NY officers turned around was the woman struck?
I agree the NY's should be disciplined for not following notification procedures and for blowing through the Customs booth.
I'd need a bit more info before I charge the NY officers with the death of the woman.
Seems to me the criminal actually killed the woman.
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Originally posted by straffo
Dune isn't "hundred feet" a pretty elastic definition of border ?
btw using an argument like : policeman where doing there job is a no go , by trepassing/violating a border they were criminal too.
Straffo, I never said they didn't violate the border. They did. And were wrong in doing so.
However, Thrawn's post would lead you to believe that it was their actions that directly lead to the woman's death. And it wasn't.
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Everyone is quick to blame the US cops.
WHAT ABOUT THE DUDE WHO RAN THE LADY OVER?!?!!? DOESN'T HE RECIEVE ANY BLAME AT ALL?!!? :mad:
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Some will find any excuse to justify their hatred of Americans. If the cops had stopped and this guy had hijacked and killed a Canadian we'd be seeing Thrawn blame the cops for letting him get away.
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Whacha gonna do when they come for you?..Man I hope they had the camera rolling for that one..Prime time entertainment!
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in related news, Cornelius Cross has asked for and was granted political asylum by canada.
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Seems to me, that the police on the US side of the border were guilty of a procedural error only, really. That being said, I don't see how they would be directly, or indirectly responsible for the womans death. That responsibilty lies with the criminal.
Canada and the US share the longest undefended border in the world.
Police forces on both sides are generally underfunded, and short on manpower. They are severely overworked.
It would be nice if some professional courtesies could be in play here. They oughta have a buffer zone wherein both police forces could cross border, provided that the other force is notified that its about to happen (or has in fact just happened).
From what I have read so far, this whole thing happened pretty fast. Had the Canadian police been informed, it is pretty doubtful they would have been able to be "on scene" immmediately, as these two US officers were already.
So, did the two US officers mess up?
Yep, but only (IMHO) because there doesn't seem to be any legal professional courtesies allowed, and they did in fact enter Canada illegally.
Did they cause this womens death, or contribute to it?
Hardly.
RTR
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Oh, and one more item here.
Unfortunately, this is going to turn into a political feeding frenzy I am sure. Canadian Parliament is going to be spouting "sovereignty" over the next few weeks.
This is going to be more about hissy fits by politicians, than the real issue.
My tax dollars at work.
RTR
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You guys totally blew your chance to surrender, right there.
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LOL Kanth. We've been there already once.
How's that new Whitehouse of yours holding up anyway?
RTR
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This tread could be a lot of fun if that poor woman hadn't died. But she did, and it's not. May she RIP.
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Those aren't "US cops", those are "city of Niagra Falls cops".
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They should sentence the officers involved to one week of Celine Dion shows.:aok
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OMG! THE HORROR!
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Somehow, someway, this has got to be all Bush's fault.
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the cops aren't responsable for the ladys death.
but they sure fluffied up.
how would we feel about people from another country crossing our borders, unauthorised, not stopping at the check-point and armed?
I'd be pissed.
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I can just hear it if we had killed the lot of em.
lol
would have been cool.
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Killed who Pongo?
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another example of a liberal using the death of an innocent to further his anti-american agenda.
Of course as a liberal it is never the criminals fault as he deserves a hug and released as someone musta made a funny face at him as he was a kid, and the American MAN kept him down.
Of course as they know hes guilty of the death of this poor woman a quick FAIR trial followed by a bullet in his head would never do.
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Wait, hold the mob, I'm sure Pongo can explain this. Or at least tell us a little more about his state-of-mind when he said it. If, in fact, he said what I think.
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He said it would have been cool if his countrymen had killed the cops chasing bad guy. Very revealing.
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bah!
edited
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It was a couple of cops trying to catch a dirtbag who had held his girlfriend for a week against her will, kidnapped a guy and stole his car, and stole another guy's car at gunpoint. They violated our open border, and turned around when ordered to do so. Yeah, what a bunch of bastards! BTW...what was the one cop that stopped at the border doing?
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Originally posted by Pongo
I can just hear it if we had killed the lot of em.
lol
would have been cool.
LOL, you are a ********, aren't you? :D
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dood with what? sticks? :p
Originally posted by Pongo
I can just hear it if we had killed the lot of em.
lol
would have been cool.
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Ya Im a nut. I wish my country man was alive and the idiot americans that caused her death were dead instead. Weird isnt it.
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Originally posted by Kanth
dood with what? sticks? :p
Well obviosly we would have needed to call in the help of the US army to repel the invasion. Thats what treaties are for.
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Pongo, who are you advocating should have killed the U.S Police Officers? Would it have been an agency of the Canadian government like the RCMP or a civilian mob? Would there have been a parade afterwards with speeches about national honor? An them, perhaps a Holiday with flags waving?
If you represent all of Canada, we really need to talk.
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Okay that's a trap if I ever saw one, he's even hidden some of the words.
Originally posted by Otto
Pongo, who are you advocating should have killed the U.S Police Officers?
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will some of you more sensible canadians go over to thrawn and pongos house and kick them in the balls?
lazs
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Originally posted by Otto
Pongo, who are you advocating should have killed the U.S Police Officers? Would it have been an agency of the Canadian government like the RCMP or a civilian mob? Would there have been a parade afterwards with speeches about national honor? An them, perhaps a Holiday with flags waving?
If you represent all of Canada, we really need to talk.
Well in my minds eye its like that robo cop robot that warns them then when they dont stop it just opens up with the mini guns and grenade launchers.
Neat that your more worried about my anger over this stupid incident then you are about the unessasary loss of an incocent candians womans life.
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didn't a canadian citizen run over another canadian citizen?
lazs
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This was an unfortunate incident...An innocent person died.
Justice will be served...And the people involved will be held accountable...Why read more into it?
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
the cops aren't responsable for the ladys death.
but they sure fluffied up.
how would we feel about people from another country crossing our borders, unauthorised, not stopping at the check-point and armed?
I'd be pissed.
Mexican army does exactly that several times a year. Recently they even opened fire on some US border patrol agents from the US side in Arizona after they were spotted.
That's one reason we need to seal our borders with the military and whatever else is needed.
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Originally posted by lazs2
will some of you more sensible canadians go over to thrawn and pongos house and kick them in the balls?
lazs
they'd have to find the balls, which could prove impossible.
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Canadian sovereignty
LMFAO
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by NUKE
they'd have to find the balls, which could prove impossible.
:rofl
does that place north even have a soccer team?
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OK OK
Its good that no americas where killed in the incident.
pongos first clue
"One customs official, who asked not to be identified, said the American police did not radio ahead as is the protocol in cross-border chases, and customs agents were in shock when the truck and four cruisers zoomed through the crossing. "
well if they have protocol for this obviosly its not as far fetched I believed.
but I dont know how you got hes canadian
"Cornelius Cross, 38, a U.S. resident"
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Originally posted by Torque
They should sentence the officers involved to one week of Celine Dion shows.:aok
Jeez...let Canada punish the officers. I mean it's Canada...not Tijuana. I can just see the interrogation:
Ximinez: Now, American Policeman-- you have one last chance. Confess the heinous sin of heresy, reject the works of the ungodly -- *two* last chances. And you shall be free -- *three* last chances. You have three last chances, the nature of which I have divulged in my previous utterance.
American Cop: I don't know what you're talking about.
Ximinez: Right! If that's the way you want it -- Cardinal! Poke him with the soft cushions!
[Biggles carries out this rather pathetic torture]
Ximinez: Confess! Confess! Confess!
Biggles: It doesn't seem to be hurting him, lord.
Ximinez: Have you got all the stuffing up one end?
Biggles: Yes, lord.
Ximinez [angrily hurling away the cushions]: Hm! He is made of harder stuff! Cardinal Fang! Fetch...THE COMFY CHAIR (http://www.webcraft1.com/wavs/comfychr.wav)!
[JARRING CHORD]
[Zoom into Fang's horrified face]
Fang [terrified]: The...Comfy Chair?
[Biggles pushes in a comfy chair -- a really plush one]
Ximinez: So you think you are strong because you can survive the soft cushions. Well, we shall see. Biggles! Put him in the Comfy Chair!
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OK now that the tread has fulkly degenated into an off topic slate of death treats can have some real fun!!! :rolleyes:
I hope this starts a war between canda and the USA, they ahve been plotting against us for decades just like Michael Moore said!!!!!
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ROFL!
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As I said in the AGW threat, I'm not sure what level of culpability the cops have regarding the death of the women.
I know it may be hard for some to understand but Canada is a separate country from the US. Canada does not have an "open" border with the US. That is why we have the customs agents and the border station in the first place. The cops stopped being cops the second they crossed the border. The became foreign armed criminals in a high speed chase of another foreign armed criminal.
Why are they criminals, because by being in a highs speed chase breaks a bunch of our laws, this on top of a bunch of firearms regulations they broke.
What should they have done. They should have radioed ahead so that we could have been ready to receive the criminal, setup road blocks etc, and help the US capture this guy. They should have also stopped before the boarder. They have no authority in Canada and certainly couldn't have done SFA if they had stopped him in Canada anyway.
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oh piss off thrawn heres the title of the thread at AGW
US police cross boarder, kill Canadian woman.
Here's the title of this thread
US cops break through border in high speek chase, Canadian kill.
Clearly from the start you claim "US cops kill Canadian Women". You used this woman's death as an opportunity to bash the US.
Just how far into Canada did these "US cops" go? Why don't post the facts? Typical liberal with feigned emotion over truth.
Originally posted by Thrawn
Unfreakingbelievable.
Here's a link to the AGW thread,
http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30622
Tell us again how you weren't claiming (or at the very least implying) that "US cops kill Canadian Woman".
Yeah we know you are only concerned with border violations, as if they don't occur on both sides.
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"I wonder what happened to the cops. The arrogence is absolutly incredible. I hope this leads to changes in our border control policies. Like having a some TOW missles at each one."
So you want to deliberatly set up weapons on the border? We dare you to. That would be the shortest war in history.... Bring it on, you damn dirty, uh, ohhh, Canadians.. :D
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Oh piss off Batz, stop feigning righteous indignation over this issue when all you are doing is obviously using it to further your anti-liberal agend.
No read that again a couple of times slowly and I'll explain the problem with that statement and yours.
The problem with that statement is that it relies on the premis that I'm in any position to determine the workings of your mind or your thoughts and feelings. This isn't the case, nor is it the case in your arbitray assignment of motivation on my part. The only people I know that could get away with such a thing would be my friends and family who actually have a large scope of context to do such a thing. And I hardly need to point out that you are niether.
"Tell us again how you weren't claiming (or at the very least implying) that "US cops kill Canadian Woman"."
Indeed I did. But I also clarified when more information was presented. But please continue your attack and ignore that, it's is after all just getting in the way of your agenda.
"Yeah we know you are only concerned with border violations, as if they don't occur on both sides."
Only? No. Mostly? Sure although I'm not gladdened by her death, US police officers incurring on the borders of my country certainly have a greater significance to me than a Canadian citizen dieing in a hit and run. And apparently my government thinks so to as they are getting directly involved in the matter. Where I don't see them getting directly involved in hit and run cases every day.
"Yeah we know you are only concerned with border violations, as if they don't occur on both sides."
Perhaps they do, prove it. And while you are at it prove that Canadian police officers haven't followed established protocol. And if you demostrate that this is true it certainly wouldn't make me a hippocrit unless I tried to argue that such border crossings are acceptable.
Grun,
"So you want to deliberatly set up weapons on the border? We dare you to. That would be the shortest war in history.... Bring it on, you damn dirty, uh, ohhh, Canadians."
We already have weapons at the border. I don't see what difference it would make to the US if Canada set up TOW missles at the bord for use in our sovereign territory.
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You started your "crusade" against US "border ruffians" only after your cries of "US cops killing Canadians" didn't pan out.
You attempted to use this poor woman's death as opportunity to bash the US (which you often do). Denying it now only shows you to be a liar as proven by your overly dramatic thread title.
Yes, you sure appear “gladdened” by her death if only to take the opportunity to cry out about "US Cops" even though it was the Niagara Falls, N.Y. PD. I don't care anything about Canadian police protocols. If it is so outrageous (or Unfreakingbelievable) that 2 Niagara Falls, N.Y. police failed to follow protocols and entered Canada illegally why weren't they detained? It's seems your feigned liberal outrage equates to a whole lot of nothing.
Your governments "getting directly involved" will most likely amount to nothing more then them crying out "You better not do it again".
You could petition your government to build a wall to keep evil "US Cops" from raiding your villages.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Bring it on..
Ya,you and GWB.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Batz
You started your "crusade" against US "border ruffians" only after your cries of "US cops killing Canadians" didn't pan out.
Bull****. From the moment the story broke I was extradinarily angry about the incusion, who is telling you otherwise, Ms. Cleo
You attempted to use this poor woman's death as opportunity to bash the US (which you often do). Denying it now only shows you to be a liar as proven by your overly dramatic thread title.
You are attempting to use this poor woman's death as opportunity to bash liberals (which you often do). Denying it now only shows you to be a liar as proven by you overly dramatic posts in this thread.
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So over this one bizzare and unfortunate incident you are willing to see reversed decades of US/Canadian undefended border policy...
I think you are nutz....
Its nice though, yoiu are willing to call for the deliberate (TOW are guided ) murder of americans just over one accident....
Do you really want a hostile stance between the usa and canada? Are you retarded?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Its nice though, yoiu are willing to call for the deliberate (TOW are guided ) murder of americans just over one accident....
It's not murder if it's legal. :)
Hypothethical question Grun, how do you feel about armed Mexicans incuring on your southern border?
"Do you really want a hostile stance between the usa and canada?"
Not really, I would be happier with raisable barrier that the cars couldn't just blow through and those pokey things that destroy tires. Although I would perfer the barrier. That way the bad guy and the cops would have stayed on the US side. The cops could also have slowed down the pursuit because they would have known the bad guy wasn't going anywhere.
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You are attempting to use this poor woman's death as opportunity to bash liberals (which you often do). Denying it now only shows you to be a liar as proven by you overly dramatic posts in this thread.
That may make sense if I were a rightwing reactionary and had started a thread like:
"Canadian liberal border guards fail to stop known criminal at border then kills woman."
I didn't, so any effect you are attempting to get from word play falls flat.
Bull****. From the moment the story broke I was extradinarily angry about the incusion, who is telling you otherwise
You "told me otherwise" right her in your thread title:
US police cross boarder, kill Canadian woman.
and here
US cops break through border in high speek chase, Canadian kill.
I can see why you are trying to deflect and distance yourself from such an outrageous (Unfreakingbelievable) claim since you were entirely wrong.
I can think of 100 other thread titles to express concerns over border violation none include:
US police cross boarder, kill Canadian woman.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Hypothethical question Grun, how do you feel about armed Mexicans incuring on your southern border?
Armed? Irrelevant. I dont think the cops went around shooting anyone. The guys simply made a mistake, not follow standardard procedure, in a heated moment and some innocent person got killed.
Yiou are trying really hard to make much out of this than it was, its not like north and south korea fer gods sake... Calm down...
If thios was happening every day I could undertand your concern but both of us knowthis was a freak occurance, unfortunately you seem to have some need to inflate this for whaterver personal purposes suit you, and you know it.
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I dunno whats to argue. Those cops violated just about every damn threaty there is. They should know better than to cross a damn international border in their pursuit. In fact, that is just about the dumbest crap I've heard of.
They need to get their unbelievably moronic tulips fired from their job, because they are obviously either
a) incredibly stupid, or
b) so arrogant that they decide to completely ignore the law.
Neither a or b is a good trait in a police officer.
Nothing you americans can say will change this simple fact. Those officers followed a criminal across an international border without anything even resembling a permit, and in doing so they caused an international incident.
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Don't be so sure about that Steve,
Read the thread at AGW in particular Jagr's post, IIRC hes a police officer in New England.
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Massachusett is on Canadian border ?
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I say shreck it, if the Canadiens are so pissed, let them keep the crook who ACTUALLY KILLED THE WOMAN we can fire the cops (idiotic idea but it will keep them happy) then we can start a wonderous new era of Canadien / American relations called closed borders. Lets see if that will help keep your innocent citizens alive and safe from American Police Officers intent on running criminals into innocent Canadien people. Just think, no more of your coming across the border to buy gas, cigarettes, or to escape the cold. No more Americans to help bolster your economy by spending money while taking advantage of the exchange rate. Hell this idea is so great, we can stop all monetary support given to your countries economy over the last 25 years, we can start a wonderous repayment program...
Howz that sound? I think it is a great freaking idea. I had no desire to pop out $2800.00 next month in Whisler and further help your economy seeings that we are such bastards who hate Canadians. So it saves me money ands keeps me happy too!
Cripes, when will you realise that it was not the cops fault the woman died, it was the criminal's fault. If you would stop trying to bash the US and own up to that simple fact, everything else would be trivial. Yes, the Cops should have radio'd ahead, but they made a mistake, but hell, burn em at the stake, because we would not want you to miss the chance to bash the US yet again!
:rolleyes:
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~golf clap~
Well done, sir.
culero
Originally posted by Bodhi
I say shreck it, if the Canadiens are so pissed, let them keep the crook who ACTUALLY KILLED THE WOMAN we can fire the cops (idiotic idea but it will keep them happy) then we can start a wonderous new era of Canadien / American relations called closed borders. Lets see if that will help keep your innocent citizens alive and safe from American Police Officers intent on running criminals into innocent Canadien people. Just think, no more of your coming across the border to buy gas, cigarettes, or to escape the cold. No more Americans to help bolster your economy by spending money while taking advantage of the exchange rate. Hell this idea is so great, we can stop all monetary support given to your countries economy over the last 25 years, we can start a wonderous repayment program...
Howz that sound? I think it is a great freaking idea. I had no desire to pop out $2800.00 next month in Whisler and further help your economy seeings that we are such bastards who hate Canadians. So it saves me money ands keeps me happy too!
Cripes, when will you realise that it was not the cops fault the woman died, it was the criminal's fault. If you would stop trying to bash the US and own up to that simple fact, everything else would be trivial. Yes, the Cops should have radio'd ahead, but they made a mistake, but hell, burn em at the stake, because we would not want you to miss the chance to bash the US yet again!
:rolleyes:
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Geez Bhodi..get an education.
"Monetary support" given to Canada? LOL
Last time I looked we weren't receiving any form of charity from the US.
Maybe closing the border and cutting economic ties would be a good thing for a while afterall. More Oil, Gas and Hydro for the poor shivering folks up here. Who knows, maybe my cost for these will drop some, seeing as how I won't have to pay for subsidizing the cost to you anymore.
Oh, but of course, Oil, Gas and Hydro shouldn't matter too much to the average americun, seeing as how it is much warmer once you step across the border into AMERICA.
Why don't you take that $2800.00 you were going to spend on Whistler (NOT whisler), and go to school.
Repayment program..LOL...you crack me up!
RTR
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Originally posted by straffo
Massachusett is on Canadian border ?
There is more to New England then Mass.
Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine all border Canada.
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RTR, I highly suggest you look into exactly where your budget has gotten make up money, especially in the late 80's and early 90's while your national health care plans was busy draining your treasury.
It happened to come from the good ole USA, in the form of incentives, guaranteed loans, eased business deals, etc. If it had not happened, your arses would be bankrupt.
Yeah, I misspell stuff from time to time, seeings that my lack of spell checking makes me "stupid", maybe I can get another notorious poor speller (HiTech), and myself a discount at the local Canadien Elementary Spelling classes!
:rolleyes:
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Charity?
Bodhi...why don't we just move the jobs that GM, and the Ford Motor Company provide in Canada back to the US?
Looks like Amercian Companies employing lots of Canadians. Maybe they should start employing more Americans and moving the plants back to the US.
(Golf Clap also Bodhi)
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LOL Bodhi, I'm not sure $2800.00 is enough to help Hitechs spelling.
As for the rest, it was not my intention to imply that you were "stupid". If that is what you got from it, my apologies.
All business dealings between Canada and the US aside, I still disagree that there was any charity involved there, and our "arses" would not be bankrupt.
Now, if you are still thinking about getting in to an elementary school class here, you should hurry. Class sizes are getting bigger every year, and the teacher numbers aren't climbing.
Public schooling here is at about the same state as it is in the US.
In decline. (although some of those elementary school teachers sure are hotties)!
Hmmm, maybe charity aint a bad idea afterall.
Brother, can ya spare a few million for some school books?
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No one with any sense will hold an entire country responsible for what a few post on a bbs. Canada and the US probably have one of these best relationships between two countries anywhere in the world. Not likely to be spoiled by this unfortunate incident or the reaction to it by a few.
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I agree...
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Iron,
I have to agree too, but it just agitates the shreck out of me when people from Canada bash us continually. The US has done far more to bolster the Canadien's then they have done vice versa. Does that mean they should be eternally grateful? Absoultely not. Then again, the idiots that seem to think we are not helping need to pull their head out of their arse, as they are beginning to act with more stupidity then the idiots at Liberte du Quebec. The botom line here is this. The US and Canada now are so intertwined it is in our communal best interests to help one another and be more understanding to each others warts. Otherwise, the ramification for one is a lot higher should are relations sour.
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Thanks Monk.
Bodhi and all, you can argue several day long ultimatly the real scumbag is american.
I guess it make this post Anti-American ?
oops :p
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I'm starting to believe that Liberals are the 'Nazi's' or our day. They're filled with hate, want to kill anyone who doesn't agree with them, and seem to lack even a basic education. For me, it's a new way to look at the world.
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Originally posted by straffo
Thanks Monk.
Bodhi and all, you can argue several day long ultimatly the real scumbag is american.
I guess it make this post Anti-American ?
oops :p
Sounds more like "noodle envy" to me.
Can't blame you for that, being French, I suppose :)
culero
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christ....they where COPS...not some bunch of young teens stupidly drunk havin fun crossing the border.
RELAX guys.....
a little common sense goes a long way....
they did stop after noticing there mistake....give em a break....adrenaline was pumping pretty fast....Happened here in Quebec not too long ago.
just sad for that poor women...
and Bodhi...just FYI....Canada is your BIGGEST trade partner....we give and take...so shut up with your stupid economy 101 class.
we need our Friends from across the border....
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Originally posted by SLO
...and Bodhi...just FYI....Canada is your BIGGEST trade partner....we give and take...so shut up with your stupid economy 101 class.
we need our Friends from across the border....
Think again dipsh$t Canada is NOT our largest trade partner... I suggest you go back to economy 101 before you try to lecture me on it...
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So over this one bizzare and unfortunate incident you are willing to see reversed decades of US/Canadian undefended border policy...
I think you are nutz....
Its nice though, yoiu are willing to call for the deliberate (TOW are guided ) murder of americans just over one accident....
Do you really want a hostile stance between the usa and canada? Are you retarded?
Your just upset that a gun wielding drunk kidnaper could get into canada and you coudnt.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Think again dipsh$t Canada is NOT our largest trade partner... I suggest you go back to economy 101 before you try to lecture me on it...
:rolleyes:
Well according to all the statistics it is Bodhi, Canada and the U.S. trade about $1.5-billion a day, the largest amount of commerce between any two nations in the world. Ontario by itself is the third biggest trading partner to the US only behind Canada and Japan. Also Canada is the biggest exporters of energy to the US
But then again recent polls show only 14% of Americans actually know this.
So other than making yourself look like an utter fool again as you did in the "prez on his knee" post, maybe you should look up facts before you do post your rantings.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Your just upset that a gun wielding drunk kidnaper could get into canada and you coudnt.
LOL.. And I bet they are gonna let him stay a lot longer than they did me. :D
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The largest single trade partner last year was NOT Canada.... where are you getting your figures????
They were 2nd, the EU was the largest trading partner with figures of rougly 400 billion.
Canada was 2nd at like 380 billion (Canada's (and Mexico) figures also encompass a large return of goods manufactured in Canada by US companies that are not supposed to be subject to "Trade Figures")
Mexico was 3rd at 235 billion (that surprised me)
China at 4 at 180 billion
Japan at 5th with 170 billion
So other than making yourself look like an utter fool again as you did in the "prez on his knee" post, maybe you should look up facts before you do post your rantings
It seems to me, that maybe you are the fool.... then again, maybe those fancy classes you take up there in Ontario tell you different... :rolleyes:
http://www.census.gov/ all my figures came from here, maybe the US government is wrong. I am sure you or some other US basher will be along to point that out soon enough.
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EU is not a country.
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Originally posted by Pongo
EU is not a country.
No...but its a trade partner. Common market and all that...
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That would be trading "partners" Its not as if they are the borg.
We sell them news casters and country singers and they sell us on line flight sims. Its a match made in heaven.
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Originally posted by Pongo
That would be trading "partners" Its not as if they are the borg.
No, lets try this again. The EU is one trade partner because it is only one, common market.
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Errrrr.........pick a month, roll the Dice give it a shot!:rolleyes:
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/top/index.html#top_partners
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Originally posted by culero
Sounds more like "noodle envy" to me.
Can't blame you for that, being French, I suppose :)
culero
argggg I've been outed again :D
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Man, leave for awhile and look what happens.
The driver of the car is clearly guilty of a criminal action resulting in the death of an innocent woman. Clear evididence that in my opinion should warrant the death penalty.
The police should also take some of the wrath for violating laws and borders, not the death of the woman.
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No, no. The thing is that some guys here are implying that a woman died **BECAUSE** the police crossed the border.
This is simply stupid reasoning. The woman died because the Criminal ran her over.
Btw, Canadia would fold over into an economic recession if we closed the borders and stopped all the acts that ole Billy Clinton let you have at our loss.
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Originally posted by Ping
Man, leave for awhile and look what happens.
The driver of the car is clearly guilty of a criminal action resulting in the death of an innocent woman. Clear evididence that in my opinion should warrant the death penalty.
The police should also take some of the wrath for violating laws and borders, not the death of the woman.
Good call.
~S~
culero
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Btw, Canadia would fold over into an economic recession if we closed the borders and stopped all the acts that ole Billy Clinton let you have at our loss.
now thats just plain stupid.....
remember not too long ago when that power outage happened.....
our countries are inter-twined so much it would hurt BOTH....
do you actually think you make Canada survive....we are NOT Iraq my young patiwan learner....
your EGO might be a tad to big....
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Originally posted by SLO
now thats just plain stupid.....
remember not too long ago when that power outage happened.....
our countries are inter-twined so much it would hurt BOTH....
do you actually think you make Canada survive....we are NOT Iraq my young patiwan learner....
your EGO might be a tad to big....
Ego???? You think that if we stopped trade with the Canadians that our economy would collapse???? :lol
Get a grip. Your GDP last least was roughly 1 trillion dollars. Of which roughly 40% was involved in trade with the US. If that stopped, your economy would COLLAPSE. The US GDP last year was 12 trillion our trade with Canada was roughly 20% of that. HArdly the end of the world.... oohhhh, and almost forgot, with the loss of the US as a trade partner, you would also lose another 25% GDP of american business pulling out.... Gee, if my math is right, thats roughly 65% of your GDP GONE.....
It would hurt the US yes, but it is recoverable. 20% vs 65%, seems to me, ya'll be fugged. That said, with the loss of the US as a trade partner, you also lose access to our ice free ports that are used year round to ship YOUR goods overseas. So tell me again how much we need Canada....?????
This has become a rediculous argument. I like most Canadians, but I do not like bashing of my country by somebody intent on twisting facts. Sad that this even descended to this level....
Salut Canada :aok
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Ice Free Ports?
Wow, exactly how far North do you think Canada is?
As for the rest, Yep I agree Bodhi, its a rediculous argument, and detracts from teh original intent of this thread.
to my American friends.
RTR
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
No, no. The thing is that some guys here are implying that a woman died **BECAUSE** the police crossed the border.
This is simply stupid reasoning. The woman died because the Criminal ran her over.
Btw, Canadia would fold over into an economic recession if we closed the borders and stopped all the acts that ole Billy Clinton let you have at our loss.
lol
Ya bill clinton gave the country away.
Police that engage in high speed pursuits are responsible for deaths that occur during them. The police obviosly can stop the pursuit at any time. In not doing so at the border they were responsible for the death of the woman that would not have happend had they obeyed the law.
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Originally posted by Pongo
lol
Ya bill clinton gave the country away.
Police that engage in high speed pursuits are responsible for deaths that occur during them. The police obviosly can stop the pursuit at any time. In not doing so at the border they were responsible for the death of the woman that would not have happend had they obeyed the law.
Are Canadian police not allowed to pursue violent armed criminals at high speed? You're assuming an awful lot. If the US cops had radioed ahead would not the Canadians have picked up the chase?
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That's nonsense Pongo, do you realize that even Grunz sounds more sensible than either you or Thrawn in this thread.
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Originally posted by Pongo
lol
Police that engage in high speed pursuits are responsible for deaths that occur during them. The police obviosly can stop the pursuit at any time. In not doing so at the border they were responsible for the death of the woman that would not have happend had they obeyed the law.
How do you figure that the police are responsible and how do you suggest that they stop the chase at anytime. Or do you mean they can stop chasing at anytime, by doing this does not necessarily stop the person being chased. Very often it is the dangerous driving pattern of the subject being pursued that originally gets the attention of the police who then initiate a vehicle stop that turns into a pursuit.
It is very tragic that an innocent woman was killed as a result of the actions of the “fleeing criminal” but you need to put the blame where it belongs, that being the criminal who was running away to avoid apprehension. The courts need to get their collective heads out of their anal cavities and hand down some meaningful jail time. But I am sure that there will be all sorts of liberal minded folks who would rather blame society, the police and anyone but the poor misguided under privileged soul who did nothing more then steal a vehicle at gun point, flee the nasty police and kill an innocent woman.
You can’t say that if the US Cops had stopped at the border the unfortunate results would have been any different. I doubt that this goof, once crossed the border, would have stopped let alone slowed down. Put the blame where it belongs.
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ever since they decriminalized weed up north, it's all been high speek.
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Originally posted by Shane
ever since they decriminalized weed up north, it's all been high speek.
How far up North are you talking about....:D
http://www.hempworld.com/HempPharm/articles/AKJudgeDismissesPotConviction.html
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Originally posted by RTR
Ice Free Ports?
Wow, exactly how far North do you think Canada is?
As for the rest, Yep I agree Bodhi, its a rediculous argument, and detracts from teh original intent of this thread.
to my American friends.
RTR
I do know the St. lawrence(SP) Seaway is limited in the winter owing to cold weather and the formation of ice, I also have seen the trains loaded with goods for export headed to NY Harbor as well as Boston. Either way it is mute.
to you RTR, and to Canadians in general.
(I sense a big love fest coming on, watch out for Mr. Black, his latest homoerotic comments really scare the dickens out of me....)
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Canada supplies the US with %25 of it's imported oil, and is the largest export of oil to the US in the world. What effect do you think that would have on the US economy if it stopped?
Edit: Sorry about the triple post. :eek: :o
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OK! we heard ya!!!
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Canada supplies the US with %25 of it's imported oil, and is the largest export of oil to the US in the world. What effect do you think that would have on the US economy if it stopped?
LOL we would start using our own or that wich we are stock piling or leaving un tapped while we use up everybody elses LOL.
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Originally posted by Torque
That's nonsense Pongo, do you realize that even Grunz sounds more sensible than either you or Thrawn in this thread.
You should look into it a bit maybe Torque. You think that police officers have no responsibility for the results of high speed chases? I assure you your mistaken. You think that police departments all over america are not puting more stringent high speed purcuit policys in place because of the deaths of incocents?
Your mistaken.
But I guess its easier to lash out at me then to search google yourself.
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Capt Apathy....
"how would we feel about people from another country crossing our borders, unauthorised, not stopping at the check-point and armed? "
Welcome to the U.S. as it is right now. Happens everyday in the state I'm from. Isn't likely to change any time soon either.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Canada supplies the US with %25 of it's imported oil, and is the largest export of oil to the US in the world. What effect do you think that would have on the US economy if it stopped?
Edit: Sorry about the triple post. :eek: :o
Other than Valdez getting a bit busier, and the reopening of well heads in the CONUS, not a whole heck of a lot. That and more US dollars to import crude from Siberia....
Try again...
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Face it nobody won in this situation.
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Originally posted by Torque
That's nonsense Pongo, do you realize that even Grunz sounds more sensible than either you or Thrawn in this thread.
What am I doing wrong????? :(
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No lashing Pongo and I myself would tend to agree with you if the woman's death had occured during an active pursuit. From what I've seen on an overhead view of the whole pursuit the Niagara Police cruisers were not in an active pursuit mode or anywhere near the suspect's truck when the woman was struck and killed.
"Moments after smashing into a parking meter and fleeing on foot, Cornelius looked Niagara Regional Police Constable Ed Bednarowski in the eye and told him he was going to kill him.
He pulled out a handgun and fired, narrowly missing Bednarowski's head."
Then the officer and two bystanders tackled and hauled Cornboy away. Polish cop i bet he got the phonebook.
Ok two weeks of Celine.:aok
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
What am I doing wrong????? :(
your still breathing :rofl
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There's an overhead film of this? Is it available online anywhere?
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Changes in Police policy on pursuits is simply because of civil liability. In other words law suits. Lawyers know the criminal is not going to have any sizable amount of cash to get in the suit. They then file against the Police as te government that is responsible for the department has cash. It's not about who is at fault or responsible for the damage or injuries, it's about getting money. The deep pocket is the one that gets sued.
There was an announced policy change in Tucson several years ago that pursuits would not be carried out except in cases involving a serious felony such as homicide and armed robbery where a victim was injured. Shortly after the policy was announced fleeing became very common including for simple traffic offenses. Funny thing was that when the idiot crashed later without a pursuit,the suits still came for the city. Some for not stopping the idiot BEFORE he crashed and some for causing the crash by trying to stop the perp in the first place thereby causing the perp to flee even though there was no pursuit of the idiot. There just isn't any way to please folks, especially civil lawyers.
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I have not seen any film on it Torque.
But I admit that I over reacted to this thread and I am sorry for that.