Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: dudedog on August 23, 2000, 01:41:00 PM
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I'm so sick and tired of the HO whine that I'm gonna whine 'bout it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) I wanna smack all 'ya HO whiners, it takes two 2 to HO and that's that, so sha-dup already. IMO there's nothing wrong with pouring lead into an nme plane from "any" angle.
[This message has been edited by dudedog (edited 08-23-2000).]
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Amen... since when does a pilot concern himself with the targets feelings about the particular direction the target is going to get holed from?
HO's are easy to avoid. I personally HO when i know my opponent shies from them, if he wants to give me a free pass, thats his business, i'll pay him back in lead.
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WarChild
VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~
"Where's the Charmin!"
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I think major complains comes on HO because it is tactically boring when you see it happen all the time, when you expect to get a fight instead of some dweeby acm after head on..
At least I feel frustrated if 9 out of 10 does HO and then either does some very stupid moves or runs, when they could have done alot better.
Most frustrating is those who dives their altitude on you with HO, when you more likely would see for a change them to try sneak in your back. (not to talk about their hit possibility on such dive HO when lower guy is for evading!)
Thats my point on head on, its just boring when theres not real fighting.
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So what you're saying is you (and others) don't like people who suck, i.e. have no acm abilities whatsoever. That's a whole different topic and I see no relevance to HO's.
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I always go straight past a chute, and turn 180 to shoot them in the back so's not to HO them.
Its just plain respectful. We need alittle more honor here, sheesh.
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hehehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Well said dudedog.
Creamo, I take it you have already retained an attorney for the personal injury suits yo will be filing after the con. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
<kidding>
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Hey, wait your turn...I put my app in to kick his prettythang first! You can have him after I'm done!
<S!> Creamo! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
SOB
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If you want a cold merge... that's what the dueling ladder is for.
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lol funked, in a fight of mine on the dueling ladder thats what i thought not so long ago, till i got blasted in te merge first duel! Needless to say it didnt happen again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by funked:
If you want a cold merge... that's what the dueling ladder is for.
No way! I thought that was for proving who had the bigger gonads. Nuts to that, I'll fly a zero and kill everyone to show them I have the biggest!
hehehehehe
-SW
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The wimps (RAM) that whine about HOs (RAM) are generally ACM-challenged (RAM) and would rather you turn away so they (RAM) can get the shot. Apparently that is one of the very few ways they (RAM) can get a shot. If you spoil it for them (RAM) then they (RAM) go all ballistic and squeak and whine (RAM) because you didn't play the way they (RAM) wanted you to so they (RAM) could take the easy shot and get the kill.
Mr. Subliminal signing off....
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O good. Another HO-down.
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HO-Hum!
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Tally -HO
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Hang's my HO...
Got $5 he's yours!
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dont call my beech no HO!
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Howdy-Ho!
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For the amount of 'anti-HO' whining we hear around these boards, you'd think that sim pilots INVENTED the headon attack (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Take the time to read 'Thunderbolt', by Robert S. Johnson, and see what P47 drivers in WW2 thought of deliberately engaging in HO attacks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I may be a HO... but I be a Very EXPENSIVE HO! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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I pimp all my Ho's including verm
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Hi-dee-hi-dee-hi-dee-hi!
Hi-dee-hi-dee-hi-dee-ho!
As a reformed anti-HO dweeb, I can now say that I am enjoying every HO opportunity that I get. And I'm winning most of them. Strangely enough, the most effective HO machine I've discovered is the Yak9. It's more of a precise, pinpoint HO than a Spray & Pray HO.
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Last night I was killed trying to avoid a HO.
From now on, I'll bring my guns to bear at any opportunity that I can. If that means a HO, oh well. At least I'll be coming in with a hail of fire trying to clear the way for me.
Find the enemy and shoot him down, anything else is rubbish.
Sisu
-Karnak
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My take on the infamous "Head On".
Why do I play Aces High? The flight model, damage model, gunnery model are all amazingly detailed and hard to learn. It's fun learning to fight in something difficult. Also, because of the live player interaction. I've played Confirmed Kill/WarBirds(v.91 up to 1.11r3), Fighter Duel over Kali, Red Baron 3D, Flying Circus and now this. The first two had very detailed and hard to learn flight models. The latter two were a lot more simpler and less complex. Extremely easy to fly, but they were arena based air combat. Multiple players doing their own lil' thang in a simple world. It was fun as hell. Not because it was hard to learn, but because of the fights. FC especially was a test of skill, not of who knew their plane better. I really like the challenge of flying against real live human opponents, I hate flying against scripted AI. They are boring and simply don't put up a fight. We all know this. That's what brings all of us together, one common interest. We all want to fight real live human opponents to test ourselves and have fights with realistic outcomes. Not 1 guy diving into a gaggle of 40 enemy AI planes and coming out on top. No, here it's not scripted and it runs on a dynamic system. You dive into a gaggle of 40 enemy human controlled planes, but shoot a few down. You may die, more friends may come and assist you or you may be able to run away and the pursuing planes break away. None of that would happen in EAW campaign mode, RB3D campaign mode or anything that works in a scripted sense.
Removing anything that could realisticly affect the outcome of a dogfight, whether it be a head on, the ability to turn tail and run away, or dumbing down the guns so you live longer is rediculous. Why? Why would you want to script a dynamic system? If every merge was guns cold, well I guarantee you it will get really freaking boring really freaking fast in any arena where *REAL* humans battle it out in a computer created world. The day we start following a set guidelines on how to and how not to engage the enemy, well that'll be the day I stop playing any game online. I like to know that my opponent is unpredictable, it teaches me not to do something so dumb as to let him get his guns around on me. Torque and his -1C can HO me all day, but he knows just as well as I do I never accept his jousting challenge. I just pull up and away and he usually doesn't get any critical damage on me.(sorry Torque, mean nothing by this. You are an excellent pilot, just using you as an example since you seem so popular ;-)
So, think about it realistically. Why do *YOU* play Aces High online? Is it to script combat so you can guarantee yourself a fair fight? If so, delete your account right NOW and please go play an offline game. You can program AI to be scripted, don't try to program a human player to not do a certain thing in combat.
*Throws on flame retardent suit and jumps into a titanium room with 3 years worth of oxygen*
-SW
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Well said SeaWulfe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) And I think maybe we've set an anti-anti-HO attitude. Hopefully it'll prevail (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I've expressed my opinions on HO's before. There are times when they're a good move, and there are times when it is a dweeb move.
Unfortunately, the latter is as common as the former.
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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StSanta, Let me guess... It's only a dweeb move when they shoot YOU down??? Please explain why the angle at which someone shoots at you affects their dweebness. I just don't get it.
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Originally posted by dudedog:
I'm so sick and tired of the HO whine that I'm gonna whine 'bout it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) I wanna smack all 'ya HO whiners, it takes two 2 to HO and that's that, so sha-dup already. IMO there's nothing wrong with pouring lead into an nme plane from "any" angle.
[This message has been edited by dudedog (edited 08-23-2000).]
It all depends a little what kind of guns you have dos´nt it?
Im telling you this:
As soon as I see A HOG I know exactly what is gonna happend, hes gonna go for the HO and Im dead.....I have no options at all.it just takes him to do it.
THIS IS GETTING PRETTY OLD!!
You are with another opinion, I respect that. But then again you are a typical "hogdriver".
Crabofix.....Pissed
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I'm a "Hog Driver"??? You need to check your facts my friend. I fly the yak mostly and I never fly hogs. And if you can't escape a hog then you need to work on your ACM. Don't blame others for your faults...
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HO threads come and go....
Summary:
It happens, it's not a bad tactic for the E or tactics challenged. Some planes even beg you to do it. Everyone does it at one time or another, especially if they are desperate.... it's not a good way to run up a streak of kills though.
I tend to give people are hard time for it when I think they had other options but decided to HO me since it was easiest... Usually I end up with a collision though since I'm trying to avoid it while the other guy is boring down on me.
Soda
The Wrecking Crew.
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Dudedog wrote:
StSanta, Let me guess... It's only a dweeb move when they shoot YOU down??? Please explain why the angle at which someone shoots at you affects their dweebness. I just don't get it.
No my friend, this isn't the criterion. FWIW, me getting shot down on HO's is rare (unless you count yesterday, which was the worst day in AH ever).
I'll quote myself:
"I will make use of a fictional example with two pilots; one in an aircraft with inferior guns compared to the other. This pilot, however, has a skill rating of 100 points, while the better gun aircraft pilot has one of 50 points.
In a normal 1 v 1 without head ons, the better pilot would win at a rate about 2:1 at least, probably more.
But, in a head on, things change. With two planes with equal guns, the chances are about 50/50, assuming straight head on with little jinking, or very late jinking.
Now, with a superior gun package, the 50 point pilot has negated the skill difference, and actually found himself at an advantage; say 60/40 or 65/35.
And this. my very fine friends and allied opportunists, is why I consider head ons dweebish and skill negating. I accept them as part of the game and sometimes a good way to even the odds (like in the case of many vs 1), but, it is my opinion head ons are made by either pilots with inferior skills, or very dumb pilots with superior skills; why
would the superior pilot want to negate his advantage in skill?"
In other words, there are times when it is a valid move, and there are times when they serve as a skill equalizer - *both* ways.
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 08-24-2000).]
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I never whine about HO's unless they are over 60 and wrinkled up.
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I'M A HOOOOOOO MAAAAAAN!
Was base defending in a Zeke today. Take off, go level, whip a 180... and HO them vulchers! Even if you both die, you win because they invested 15 min to get there and you only put in 1! What a blast!
I'M A HOOOOOOO MAAAAAAN! Da na da na!
I'M A HOOOOOOO MAAAAAAN! Da na da na!
eskimo
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Dweeb tactic. Relies on gaming the game to a larger extent than most others. Using this as your "main" or one of your "preferred" tactics is the height of dweebishness. Works good against other dweebs, but screams out "I'm too lazy to learn real ACM" to most "good" pilots you face. Good way to maintain a 1/1 K/D or better if that floats your boat and you're "skilled" enough to pick the right plane tho.
Now back to your regularly-scheduled mutual-admiration society and back-slapping meeting (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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HO-whiners are the dweebs. If you don't like them so much, just don't allow the enemy to approach you like that.
Avoiding an HO when enemy is spotted from a distance is easy. Very easy. Hell, at the worst, just 180/split-S/whatever and run.
If you can't avoid the "terrible and unfair" HO, it is your flying skills that need work. Quit whining.
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Jeeeeeeze guys. Head on's are a fact of fighter pilot life.
Face it.
They happen.
Also, a dogfight that starts off decent can turn real bad when both sides employ nose to nose turns or vertical moves. The circle of the fight keeps getting met in the middle, and there's not that many guys who know how to get out of it, and be in a decent position afterwards.
Me? I take every shot I can get. If it's a pure chance head on I'll take it. If I have been fighting the enemy for a while, and he moved to put himself in that position on purpose, I'll shy away.
Have a nice day (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
yo-HO!
yo-HO!
-Reb
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StSanta, you've actually made me see a part of the HO thing in a different light. Not that it changes my opinion whatsoever, I still shoot at the nme from any position. The example you gave was enlightening. However I would consider it rare that a good pilot would use the HO to "equalize or negate" the advantage, since being the better pilot he already has the advantage and knows it.
Note the following two points:
#1 Now for an inferior pilot or being at a disadvantage, to use the HO is in fact a wise move and the fact that people whine so much just proves how effective it is.
No whines allowed for this as it is in fact a reasonable manouver.
#2 Now for a superior pilot or one having an advantage to start with, HO'ing would be dumb, we all know this and I think that this is what most people are saying. BUT... this essentially throws their advantage away and I can't see why people would whine about that.
I think that covers it, unless someone has a direct disagrrement with the above 2 points, why whine?
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Originally posted by dudedog:
...unless someone has a direct disagrrement with the above 2 points, why whine?
It is always easier to blame someone else when a whiner gets shot down. Instead of acknowledging being bettered and saluting the enemy, they think they save face and they get to put blame for dying on someone else.
Obviously the other person cheated in some way as the whiner (in their own mind) is the superior pilot and strategist. That is the only way a whiner can get shot down.
Also known as "little man syndrome"