Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on February 23, 2004, 12:34:29 PM

Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Ripsnort on February 23, 2004, 12:34:29 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=542&u=/ap/20040223/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/helicopter_cancellation&printer=1

Ouch! Condolences to those Boeing and Sikorski employees affected back east.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: ra on February 23, 2004, 12:42:30 PM
Started in 1983, would have gone in service in 2010.  27 years to develop a helicopter.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Holden McGroin on February 23, 2004, 12:57:27 PM
Igor took longer to develop his first....:)
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: bpti on February 23, 2004, 01:15:23 PM
I think it was about time. That program has been in prototype stage for way too long.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: FUNKED1 on February 23, 2004, 01:16:30 PM
The reason these programs stay in prototype stages for so long is that the budgets were cut.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Fishu on February 23, 2004, 01:19:36 PM
So what are they going to replace apaches with? those are getting quite old and how those bares against 3rd world countries shouldn't be used to explain how those still do fine.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Charon on February 23, 2004, 01:28:35 PM
We're going to be in some real trouble now when those Soviet army groups flood through the Fulda gap.

Charon
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: hawker238 on February 23, 2004, 02:32:57 PM
No, we still have democracy.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: jamusta on February 23, 2004, 02:35:02 PM
A total waste of money from the start of the program. The longbow apache can do the exact same mission even better.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: LePaul on February 23, 2004, 03:01:50 PM
Wholly crap, in development since 1983?  Yea...that's gone on a lil long.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Ripsnort on February 23, 2004, 03:01:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by jamusta
A total waste of money from the start of the program. The longbow apache can do the exact same mission even better.


About its only significant ability above and beyond the capability of its predecessor is its low radar signature,special acoustics design, high technology composites,  and a buried exhaust system, making it less observable.  But is that really needed in the futuristic wars with the current existing capability to knock out radar before interdiction?  I don't think so.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Pongo on February 23, 2004, 03:01:56 PM
Unforseen increases in the defence budget.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: midnight Target on February 23, 2004, 03:02:46 PM
Saw a mockup of the next-generation pilotless chopper under development at Northrup-Grumman. I think you will see a lot of these remotely operated weapons systems coming into use in the future.
Keep practicing AH, you might get your chance for combat yet. :)
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: jamusta on February 23, 2004, 03:08:14 PM
Ripsnort. You are correct. I dont feel there is a use for a stelth copter. Most hide behind trees or hills anyway. The longbow has ground radar on top of the props and hellfires are now fire and forget. I have done the mock warfare with the MILES gear and was picked off at 7k by a longbow. I only saw its dust cloud way off into the distance as it departed the area.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Ripsnort on February 23, 2004, 03:11:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Saw a mockup of the next-generation pilotless chopper under development at Northrup-Grumman. I think you will see a lot of these remotely operated weapons systems coming into use in the future.
Keep practicing AH, you might get your chance for combat yet. :)


Yes!
I think future combat will be a heavy dose of Remote Pilotless and Satellites combined. At least thats what I read about alot within the company newspaper.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Glasses on February 23, 2004, 03:25:34 PM
Yes now you shall all seee the US Army invest in 10 foot tall mechanized combat robots with lasers and missiles and radar and and and big arse legs you'll see damnit!
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Pongo on February 23, 2004, 03:26:50 PM
And troops Rip. Well armed well trained superbly motivated troops. The US should keep pursuing its infantry kit upgrade schemes
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: cpxxx on February 23, 2004, 03:29:03 PM
Pity about the cancellation but unfortunately it really no longer has a role. As seen in Iraq, stealth technology is no good when the enemy have no usable radar and simply wait until the helo appears, then shoot at it. On the positive side I doubt if the technology will be wasted.

UAVs are the future anyway. The reckoning is that the next generation of fighter will be unmanned. I daresay the next generation of Observation helicopters will be unmanned too and indeed attack helicopters.

The Comanche unfortunately took so long in development that is simply became obsolete. As will pilots and aircrew in due course.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 23, 2004, 03:44:29 PM
Like that old saying, don't fix something that isn't broken.



Apache's might be old, but they still work.  Same with cobras.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Eagler on February 23, 2004, 03:48:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Yes!
I think future combat will be a heavy dose of Remote Pilotless and Satellites combined. At least thats what I read about alot within the company newspaper.


yep
(http://www.deskpicture.com/DPs/Military/GlobalHawk_f.jpg)
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Pongo on February 23, 2004, 03:49:09 PM
I hope they think seriosly about building  more A10s
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on February 23, 2004, 04:13:04 PM
Lose air superiority if the satellite is taken out or the signal is jammed for remote planes.

Theres always that "new technology" everyone swears will replace the older stuff, remember the philosophy behind missles?

Aircraft still have cannons on them.
-SW
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: hawker238 on February 23, 2004, 04:27:51 PM
The A10 is being phased out.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: acepilot2 on February 23, 2004, 04:31:13 PM
this sucks.

no commanche:(

I live down in ct, sikorsky facility is just a few miles away.

So much for prototype commanches flying overhead.  Was kinda hoping for that. I actually think I saw one once...
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Pongo on February 23, 2004, 04:33:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hawker238
The A10 is being phased out.


I know. I hope they get thier heads on straight and realise how stupid that is.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 23, 2004, 04:33:34 PM
Phased out for what?  It still rocks!
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Pongo on February 23, 2004, 04:35:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Lose air superiority if the satellite is taken out or the signal is jammed for remote planes.

Theres always that "new technology" everyone swears will replace the older stuff, remember the philosophy behind missles?

Aircraft still have cannons on them.
-SW


Exaclty. I dont know that the Commache was the answer. But remoting the whole force structure isnt either. Some asian country introduces and make available a revalutionary man pad and the whole scheme is gone.  An A10 can survive any man pad hit.
MAKE BETTER A10S YOU DWEEBS!
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Pongo on February 23, 2004, 04:36:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Phased out for what?  It still rocks!

I think at best they are thinking an F16 derivitive. But maybe not even that anymore.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: rpm on February 23, 2004, 04:55:55 PM
Quote
Andrew Krepinevich, executive director of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, said in an interview that he believes Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld is killing off big-ticket projects that were conceived during the Cold War and that are threatening to squeeze the financial life out of projects more essential to the military's modernization.

Waiting for John Kerry to be somehow blamed for this by the Republicans.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: mrblack on February 23, 2004, 05:07:12 PM
Gotta have those freed up tax dollars to chase camel jockeys around the desert .
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: GRUNHERZ on February 23, 2004, 05:20:38 PM
Ahh yes the John Kerry apologists, I knew it was coming!!!

Lets just say one difference is that  Kerry voted to cut all those programs during the cold war. For example he did not consider the M1 Abrams tank or F15 fighters  or the Apache neccasary for our military when we were facing down massive soviet forces in europe...

I'm sad to see Comache go, it was a neat system with intrwsting capabilies and revolutinary flight performance but I really did not see much use for it - always had the impression it was fragile cvompared to apache.

Crusader was IMO a much bigger loss as our SPGs are really outdated compared to latest european models.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: acepilot2 on February 23, 2004, 05:21:38 PM
once again this is becoming a political/"we didnt need that/would be useless" argument:rolleyes:
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Ripsnort on February 23, 2004, 05:23:47 PM
{rant}
Its "Comanche"..one m
{/rant}
:)
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: GRUNHERZ on February 23, 2004, 05:25:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Phased out for what?  It still rocks!


35,000 foot up B52s with JDAMs - just like AH with the old bomb sight....  :eek:  :D
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Pongo on February 23, 2004, 06:21:08 PM
Thats what the Air Force wants . I wonder what the troops on the ground would prefer.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: FUNKED1 on February 23, 2004, 06:28:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
35,000 foot up B52s with JDAMs - just like AH with the old bomb sight....  :eek:  :D


Actually in some ways the AH system was superior.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: midnight Target on February 23, 2004, 06:30:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
Thats what the Air Force wants . I wonder what the troops on the ground would prefer.


To be home?
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: hawker238 on February 23, 2004, 06:54:56 PM
The airforce says its taking out the A-10 in favor of its F-35.  A load of BS, the F-35 would be a one-hit goner....  No way that thing can do interdiction.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Rafe35 on February 23, 2004, 07:09:45 PM
F/A-22 and F-35 JSF will probably only two fighter in USA and I feel stupid for having two little fighter in USA.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: GRUNHERZ on February 23, 2004, 07:19:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
Thats what the Air Force wants . I wonder what the troops on the ground would prefer.


I think they like 2,000 pound packets of love raining down on their enemies with precision - provided of course everyone types in the right coordinates. :(  But of course I imagine all soldiers like to see air friends close up and personal. I think the A10 should stay, especally considering the low tech type of terror wars we are facing now, its much more resitant to manpads, aaa and even small arms comared to F16 and prolly moreso incomparsion to the F35 with its stealth features and internal weapons carriage. And then of course there is GAU8. :)
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Pongo on February 23, 2004, 07:54:05 PM
Buffs need huge bases and huge infastructure, hours notice and absolute air supperiority.
Lots of assumptions there. If I was an infantry company commander I would rather have A10s on 5 minute call then Buffs on 2 hour call.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: hawker238 on February 23, 2004, 07:56:23 PM
He was kidding about the BUFFs.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: GRUNHERZ on February 23, 2004, 08:30:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
Buffs need huge bases and huge infastructure, hours notice and absolute air supperiority.
Lots of assumptions there. If I was an infantry company commander I would rather have A10s on 5 minute call then Buffs on 2 hour call.


I was kidding, yes, but only partially. :)

In Afghanistan they had B52s and B1s on station over any active battle area and in direct communication with troops - they could loiter for quite some time and recive targeting info from the ground in real time. The ground troops could call in a strike on moments notice just as if it was a fighter down low.  I thought it was a very intersting and innovative use of technology.  I dpo make the assumption of air superiority, when is the last war where the USa did not have air superiority over our troops? And this will definetly be the case with these terror wars.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: hawker238 on February 23, 2004, 09:02:29 PM
The B1b is the sexiest aircraft ever.

(http://nsgsun.aae.uiuc.edu/students/leodir/airplane/b1b.jpg)

(http://i.timeinc.net/time/daily/iraq/weapons/air/images/b1b.gif)
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 23, 2004, 10:05:35 PM
I'm sorry.  But there's no fear factor involved in a B52 50k above the ground waiting to strike.



However, I would hate to have an a10 pointed at me anytime I turned around.
Title: Comanche Program canceled
Post by: Connection on February 23, 2004, 10:24:53 PM
The sad thing is that with the new world order, with wars being fought in urban setting with small specialized troops against small specialized groups, the comanche would actually be more useful and effective than bigger programs such as the F-22