Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Mister Fork on February 24, 2004, 09:58:10 PM
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Phillipenes, February 1945 (Burma map)
P-38's from The Black Sheep in conjunction with the 22nd Bomber Group push towards Manilia. Based from Quezon, the US might pushes West.
Japan is not to be outdone however. They expect to push back hard. America will pay for every inch.
USA
B-26B
C-47A
P-38L
Sherman (Panzer)
M-Series
Japan
Ki-67
NIK2-J
Ki-61-I-KAIc
Type 97 "Shinhoto Chi-Ha" (Panzer)
M-Series
Arena Settings
Fuel: 1.5
Dar: Historical
Strat: off
Vehicle resupply worth: -10 minutes
Morning: 6:00am
Evening: 6:30pm
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yay, nik/b26 map...
:(
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What the? No F4U Corsair? Oh man! Why?!
*act like Hitech* Mister Fork, Your Fired! *ended act like Hitech*
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I have a question.
Lets see the latest setups list:
- Second Wind - PTO
- Gudalcanal - PTO
- Greese
- Black Speep - PTO
I do not have problems with PTO setups. But it looks like too much.
Can you ballance the average amount of theatres. I'd like to fly time to time in Europe, BoB, North Africa and ETO.
I have no problems with this setup - and it looks like fun - P-38 vs N1K but.......
Can you explain plz.
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Its been far too long since we had a non Okinawa PTO setup with the P-38L.
Thumbs up.
ETO, whats that? :)
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I do not have problems with PTO setups. But it looks like too much.
We went like 6 weeks with out one.
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Looks like a fun setup by the way:aok
One question, who were the Black Sheep that flew the P-38?
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Originally posted by Slash27
I do not have problems with PTO setups. But it looks like too much.
We went like 6 weeks with out one.
That is the point.
Do we have to run one more PTO setup when there were 2 setups last time.
When did we had late war Europ setup? Looks like more then 6 weeks.
Lets make it ballanced and don't run all the time setups from same theatre.
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Dude this looks absolutely fantastic!!!!!!!
I am serious man, this is going to be a huge winner. People may ***** now cause their favorite ride is not their, but I think this is the most original setup I have seen in over a year.
thanks so much
:aok
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Where's the P-40? J/K
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Dmmit thats hard to get off of an lcd screen!!!
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I think the Axis should get the 190-D9 to simulate the Ki84.:D
(grinnin, duckin, runnin...)
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Originally posted by Grits
I think the Axis should get the 190-D9 to simulate the Ki84.:D
(grinnin, duckin, runnin...)
NO!
However, we do need the Val and Kate so we can Vultch with impunity.
Sakai
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Lets make it ballanced and don't run all the time setups from same theatre.
I agree, after this set up the CT staffers should try to come up with a fair rotation of sets.
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Originally posted by storch
Great set up. the numbers should be very good.
Agreed, this one should be a lot of fun, but I like most setups.
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I wonder, if you gripe constantly about the setups, does it mean more or less when you actually say you like one?
hmmmmmm.....
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Originally posted by artik
That is the point.
Do we have to run one more PTO setup when there were 2 setups last time.
When did we had late war Europ setup? Looks like more then 6 weeks.
Lets make it ballanced and don't run all the time setups from same theatre.
I believe it was the week before or maybe two weeks before the "Second Wind" setup ran. There were two back to back European Theater although they were Eastern Front setups and were not a Spitfire/Typhoon/P-51/P-47/109/190 matchup like the two before that which were BoF and Channel engagements.
We do try to have an even setup rotation and we are always looking to keep it balanced. Hopefully we can do it better in the future.
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artik balanced like the current setup?
Balance is overblown. The worse setups are always the ones where people start throwing things in for 'balance' and you end up with 8 fighter models on both sides and the whole point of the setup gets lost.
The current setup is rather unbalanced, but that is the point, that darn 202 is a nasty plane, not to mention the 109e. If the ct staff 'balanced' this scenario it would suck sqrl nuts. First they would add the spit v then the axis would want the 109f then the allies would want the spit 9 then the axis would want the 109g2.... on and on and on....
(http://141.161.196.100/1.JPG)
as it is now, the allies have a distinct disadvantage, but that lets people really enjoy a plane that kicked butt for a short time during ww2. Otherwise the 202 is way outmatched, and underflown.
Maybe someday we will get a p40b vs oscar setup and we will all be even again.
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The 202 is not way outmatched. :D
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? not out matched in this scenario, but in the MA it is.
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To me plane balance is a subjective thing. Personally when I'm considering plane balance I look at the numbers, and then go by my own experiences either flying or fighting against in the MA and the CT.
IMHO when do planes match up well? When they are relatively close in performance. Either directly matching up well in speed, manuverability, climb rate, etc. Or when the differences are "compatible" Plane A is a little faster but turns a little worse and visa versa. To me match ups like the P-40 vs the Oscar (as an example) would be extremely boring since the Oscar cannot hope to compete with the speed and dive of the P-40 and the P-40 cannot hope to compete with the Oscar in manuverability. All this says to me that the P40 pilot will BnZ untill the E states begin to equalize then he's goig to put the nose down and run away. Doesn't sound like much fun to me. Again IMHO the "good" matchups are the ones like the N1k vs. the F6F, P-51 vs. 190D9/109G10, to name a couple.
These are my ideas of what "balanced" is but I can say with some certainty that someone will look at this and say "that Soulyss guy is out of his mind, who in the hell does he think he is?" I would wager that we as a group will never agree on what a "balanced" setup is.
Now that I've rambled on and on I'll get off my soap box, I dunno what brought all this on. :) Must be a slow day at work :D
Artik, I know we have done a fair amount of PTO stuff lately, look for a move back to the eto oh I'd say circa 1944 in the near future. :)
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Originally posted by ergRTC
? not out matched in this scenario, but in the MA it is.
That be the MA. It has plane model overkill. They may as well take out half of `em.
The CT should be the haven for whatever's left. Rotated and matched accordingly.
Which is why I always argue that how well a new potential plane model would work in the MA is a moot issue.
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I'm not really going to get into what I think about another staff members setup in public but based on the few sorties I have had this week I've found the 202 vs. P40 matchup to be pretty enjoyable. The P40 carries the advantage in firepower, while the 202 is a little more nimble but both planes seem close enough that one's strength doesn't overpower the other's weakness.
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Originally posted by storch
Also the 202 isn't outmatched it's undergunned. it can't kill much but it is an annoying little beast. perhaps if we were allowed some additional time some of my victims would die from infection.
You're landing more kills in this planeset than you normally do.
Give it a rest. :D
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what, no A6M5b?
bummer. :(
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Originally posted by ergRTC
artik balanced like the current setup?
I mean at that point - ballance between theatres not all the time PTO but also Europ, Estern Front ,N Afrika, Late War /Early War
As I told I do like this setup, but I'd like to see another theatre at CT before this one comes.
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Artik may be trying to say it's been a while since we've had a Western front setup. Other than the 1942BOB setup a few weeks ago he's right. Theres been no U.S. vs Luftwaffe setups in a while other than a P-40 here or there in Greece , or Russia.
There has been a long hard drought on PTO setups , and this is prob just a long overdue form of catchup. The LW vs RAF/USSAF setups will be plentifull again I'm sure.
I am very happy to see the new wave of setups though, that are based on the less is more theory. Limiting the fighter types on each side has brought out better scenarios IMO. It's still fun , plus it makes it more of a realistic experiance. Just because somebody hands you your *** while in a P-40, you can't go jump it a spit and roar back to make yourself feel better. You have to learn to win with what you got.:aok
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Storch.
Honestly the 202's have been haunting me most of the week. If I get one on my 6 in a P-40 unless somebody clears me, I'm pretty much a goner. Maybe it's my limited bag of ACM tricks. They usually just wear down my energy , close to killing range, and seperate me from my aircraft.
Actually I flew the 109E some over the weekend, and had a blast in it, used wisely its a killer in this setup. I havent flown the 202, something about it just doesnt interest me enough to take the time to fly one.
The Sopranos starts again in about two weeks on HBO, thats when I'll go Italian.:aok
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I was flying the 109 last night and had a ball. Couldnt hit a damn thing, and trust me I had some great opportunities. Its nice not having to worry about enemy planes chasing you down. ;)
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Originally posted by ergRTC
I was flying the 109 last night and had a ball. Couldnt hit a damn thing, and trust me I had some great opportunities. Its nice not having to worry about enemy planes chasing you down. ;)
Yeah I hear ya Erg, I'm 4 and 0 in the 109E. I think it took me 6 sorties to get 4 kills though. Lost my bi-focals.:D
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I have been flying CT more of late and at first I didn't like the very limited plane sets (probably a carry over from MA). I "forced" myself to fly plane I didn't "like" and began to pick many planes I had hardly flown at all. At the start of every campaign, flying "new" airframes from both sides I pretty much got slaughtered. BUT, as I spent more time in these planes I found ways to win and and come out on top regardless of the plane as i have changed sides often to balance numbers and just tryand become more experinced in new planes. My initial opinion of the 202 was not a lot different then Storch's, but more flying, changing tactics, changing setups, adapting to the airframe, Now I feel the 202 has very good guns and I can get pretty quick kills. I changed convergence to 150 and get in close (which isn't hard in this setup) worked on picking my shots (cockpits, tail sections, one wing root). Now I find the guns more than adequate. I then spent time in the 109E that was harder but found ways to win in it. Then over to the P40's, if I tried to just outturn 202's I got killed a lot, but by changing and adapting I found it just great. Then the Hurri 1, at first I thought it was hopeless but after several hours began to fine I could win consistently in it also. I have learned more about changing tactics and fighting diferent models here in the CT over the few months than I learned in over 3 yrs flying in the MA. Get a plane stay in it until you learn to get kills in it consistly and then move to the next, you develop a much better appreciation for all planes and may become a better virtual pilot because of it.
Phantom4
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I agree 100% with what Phantom said. At the start of each set I am just awful, but as I adapt to each plane, learn its strengths and weaknesses by trial and error (lots) I get, if not good, at least competent in each one I fly. In addition, I think that learning process will make me better in the planes I already "liked" and was good at once I go back to them. So in that sense I look forward to setups with fewer choices,and less than "uber" planes in them.
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NO BLUE PLANES! :rolleyes:
You are forcing guys to fly one aircraft type for the sake of something "different." IMO the CT should cater to variety and the set-ups to make as many people happy as possible by offering a wide a plane-set as possible in the given scenario. Otherwise you drive people to the MA and cause new players to the CT not to come because they don't like the plane-set.
Sorry guys, this "less is more" approach just leaves me cold.
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face it jester, you know you will have fun. the whole dynamic would change if the ij had to worry about the blue and the silver. With just the silver a completely different strat can be used.
And heck, its only a week.
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why do the Allies only have 1 fighter..(P-38L) i mean comon...its gonna get boring flyin the same ole plane fight after fight...i'd just like to so maybe...some Blue planes !:confused:
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er.."i'd just like to "see"
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That mean your going to pay next weeks AH bill for me Erg because I am stuck flying just one type of plane?
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Sure! send me the bill (1600 pennsylvania avenue, washington DC).
By the way, there is a nik and ki61 as well.
AND beyond that, dont you tend to fly a single plane? Be it the p47 or the f6f or whatever.
The CT is all about restriction.
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Originally posted by ergRTC
The CT is all about restriction.
Hence the reason that everyone's panties are always in a wad.
Sakai
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lol
i didnt say constriction
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Originally posted by Jester
That mean your going to pay next weeks AH bill for me Erg because I am stuck flying just one type of plane?
I'm relatively new here, but I thought the whole idea of the CT was to force a limited selection of AC for a week to simulate a certain even/time period of the war? What is the point of creating a scenario where you have 20 plane choices on each side? What you end up with is the MA minus one theater, IE everything but Russian, or everything but Japanese, or everything but USN. That is more dull than 1-2 plane choices.
Even though I was the one asking for the P40 in Guadalcanal, IM (very)HO the fewer plane options the better no matter what time or theater the scenario is set in.
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Check your history book Grits - I am just about sure the NAVY was "somewhere" around during the re-taking of the Philippines.
Not though old "Dugout" Doug McAurthur would admitt it. :D
Thought would be "kinda" historical having them there.
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Yeah but then it would have been like a billioin other setups we have done. I can imagine that at some point in the war a squadron of p38s had to deal with ij all alone for a week without the blue guys coming to their rescue. ;)
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Agreed Jester. Maybe we should have the CVE's of Taffy 3 which would add the FM2 and TBM? I dont think the big CV task groups played a huge role, but anybody remotely familiar with the PAC knows the story of Taffy 3 driving off the Yamato from hitting the otherwise defenceless beachhead at Lyete.
So FM2 and P38 I would like, but I would not want to see everything in the the USAAF/USN list added just because some folks like one plane or another and they were available at the time period of the set. I say that as a person who's favorite plane is the F4U-1, but for scenario purposes I'd rather not see it in the set.
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Originally posted by Jester
Check your history book Grits - I am just about sure the NAVY was "somewhere" around during the re-taking of the Philippines.
Not though old "Dugout" Doug McAurthur would admitt it. :D
Thought would be "kinda" historical having them there.
No questin! But I thought the point was to feature the P-38?
Sakai
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Originally posted by Sakai
No questin! But I thought the point was to feature the P-38?
Sakai
Not a problem.
Just make the P-38 the only AAF plane available. But not everyone likes to fly them and many squads and individual pilots that take the time to support the CT fly NAVY planes. Where there is a possible set-up where their planes can be flown not very fair to exclude them. After all this isn't the SEA.
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:aok
This is a good setup. Might pull me out of WWIIOL a bit more. :)
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Well if its a Burma map, wouldnt this be a CBI set up? If so I would propose adding the P-51B along with the P-38L vs the Ki-61 and N1K. The Tony and the George more than held their ground vs the C-Hog and -4. The will give us options with out going overboard. Any thoughts Fork?
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Dont do it man!!!!!
why do our setups have to cover so much time. A fricking 707 coulda been flying around too, not very probable, in fact nearly absolutely impossible, but....
Hey most of you guys believe in god so hell, anything coulda happened.
LEts just say we are looking at one week in 1945, and all the planes that were there are accounted for.
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Originally posted by Jester
NO BLUE PLANES! :rolleyes:
You are forcing guys to fly one aircraft type for the sake of something "different." IMO the CT should cater to variety and the set-ups to make as many people happy as possible by offering a wide a plane-set as possible in the given scenario. Otherwise you drive people to the MA and cause new players to the CT not to come because they don't like the plane-set.
Sorry guys, this "less is more" approach just leaves me cold.
I do think "less is more" to a certain extent, but restricting it all the way down to a single fighter for one side is too much, IMO. And I say that as a guy who loves the '38 (its looks anyway).
Wasn't there a fighter group (318th maybe?) flying razorback
P-47s in this area too? Or maybe a Royal Navy group equipped with F4Us?
I think this has the makings of a good setup, would just appreciate a little more variety on the Allied side.
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I would be fine to add another Allied plane, but what does the P-47 add that the P-38 doesnt do better? If you have to add an Allied fighter add the F6F to somewhat counter the Niki, that way both sides have something of a BnZ plane, and both sides have a turnfighter.
However, a CV with FM2's and TBM's would be more historical by simulating the Taffy task groups at Leyte.
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I think we should let it ride. I was flying ij last night (to even the numbers, imagine that) and the p38s could do it all. Turn dive run climb and carry huge amounts of payload.
There just isnt a reason for another plane besides somebody wanting to fly something different.
If you want to fly something different, wait 5 days.
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I say let it ride too, but if they do add a plane the FM2 is the most historically accurate USN type.