Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Scootter on February 26, 2004, 02:33:13 PM
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Why is so much energy spent on trying to understand the USA and also trying to change us?
It seems to me that 80 percent of the posts here have to do with what’s wrong with the USA and how we are such dim failures to the rest of the world. I read post after post from other countries and most deal with what’s wrong here, not ever about what is wrong in say Germany or Russia or even Denmark, why is that, are these countries so perfect or not worth talking about?
We must be very important to you guys (you know who you are) for you to spend so much time putting us down, is this due to a low self esteem on your part or just to much time on your hands?
Do you not think it possible to change your own country and therefor would rather spend your time trying to change ours?
We are not you, we were not brought up like you, if you don't understand our government or our love affair with cars or hunting or guns etc, fine so be it.
Just please explain why its ok with you, that in parts of the world its ok for the government to encourage only male children to be kept, or its ok for men to beat there wives and you say nothing. Is there no political scandals elsewhere?
Pretend you have a magic wand, what three things you would change about the US if you had the chance and why? Please think about you answers as I hope to generate some worthwhile discussion on this.
I look forward to the worlds response:
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It seems to me that 80 percent of the posts here have to do with what’s wrong with the USA and how we are such dim failures to the rest of the world. I read post after post from other countries and most deal with what’s wrong here, not ever about what is wrong in say Germany or Russia or even Denmark, why is that, are these countries so perfect or not worth talking about?
I get the impression that the Europeans around here are more informed about current events in the U.S. than U.S. citizens are of Europe.
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Bush out of office
Bush out of office
Bush out of office
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Envy
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I am not being flip, but I think most Americans do not care very much what happens in Europe(or in the rest of the world).
(I think some Euros resent that and think we are shallow)
(Hell we may be)
The US, is a huge country, we have all kinds of things here for us to think about.
We are the greatest country on the face of the planet.
As for all the Euros who like to tell us how bad/wrong/fat/stupid/not as good as them/shallow/whatever, who cares what they think, they do not vote here.
Now having an interesting conversation is always fun, but some people here just get to wrapped up and make it personal.
If I had a magic wand, I would
Make politicians honest.
Change our school system so all kids get the same amount of
Money spent on them and break the stupid unions.
I would make even the though a of frivolous law suit result in loss of bladder control.
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I get the impression that the Europeans around here are more informed about current events in the U.S. than U.S. citizens are of Europe.
They agree with liberals about everything, so you know they are well informed.
:rolleyes:
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It seems to me that 80 percent of the posts here have to do with what’s wrong with the USA
Dude, you are seeing things....
You need to step back from the comp, go out and get laid or drunk...
Take a long time out from this board because your perception of it aint right...
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Originally posted by ra
They agree with liberals about everything, so you know they are well informed.
:rolleyes:
Who owns CNN?
:rolleyes: right back at ya.
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Originally posted by Maniac
Dude, you are seeing things....
You need to step back from the comp, go out and get laid or drunk...
Take a long time out from this board because your perception of it aint right...
Correct.
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Originally posted by Maniac
Dude, you are seeing things....
You need to step back from the comp, go out and get laid or drunk...
Take a long time out from this board because your perception of it aint right...
I do both, just not at the same time, thanks for the offer though :)
fair enough 80% is a bit high, so how about 30% is that better?
You have me beat by 2 to 1 on posts so as far as stepping back from the comp.... well that’s the pot calling the kettle black
and how dare you speak of MY perception? its MINE
;)
Curval you have me beat by a factor of 5, and I was hoping for a bit more from you then a "he's right" :p
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2000 posts since 1999 aint that much :)
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most of them could care less, and tend to think we are all insane over here.
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The fact that 80% of the political threads on this board relate to the US has nothing to do with the fact that about 80% of the posters here are from the US.
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Source of the problem. (http://record.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/743.html)
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Originally posted by Maniac
2000 posts since 1999 aint that much :)
lol I was about to chime in on that! He's been here since the beginning! That's the only thing we agree about though! :D well beer and laid too but that doesn't count!
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Hi Udie! :D
***** one more post .-P
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Who owns CNN?
Fox.
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Scooter, it is true I have alot of posts. If you look back many of them are simply reaction posts to claims of either US superiority or "look at how great America is". Fact is I think America IS a great country, but unfortunately many of you have let that fact go to your heads and use it as a weapon to "dump" on non-American countries when their citizens merely disagree with one of you.
Take your first post...it is a prime example. In a round-about way you are telling non-Americans that they should "butt out" of any discussion that doesn't involve them. This is a discussion board..we are here to discuss. By arguing, and getting a bit worked up, we end up learning alot about each other, each other's history and what it is like to live in different places. What exactly do you want...non-Americans to cower down to the almighty Americans on this board and just agree with you? That would make this one very boring place.
No-one is trying to change America, we are simply trying to bring you down to earth a bit. ;)
As far as beating wives and killing babies go...if you criticise that behaviour I'm behind you 100%.
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Originally posted by Curval
Scooter, it is true I have alot of posts. If you look back many of them are simply reaction posts to claims of either US superiority or "look at how great America is". Fact is I think America IS a great country, but unfortunately many of you have let that fact go to your heads and use it as a weapon to "dump" on non-American countries when their citizens merely disagree with one of you.
Take your first post...it is a prime example. In a round-about way you are telling non-Americans that they should "butt out" of any discussion that doesn't involve them. This is a discussion board..we are here to discuss. By arguing, and getting a bit worked up, we end up learning alot about each other, each other's history and what it is like to live in different places. What exactly do you want...non-Americans to cower down to the almighty Americans on this board and just agree with you? That would make this one very boring place.
No-one is trying to change America, we are simply trying to bring you down to earth a bit. ;)
As far as beating wives and killing babies go...if you criticise that behaviour I'm behind you 100%.
Well said.
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i thought CNN was owned by that guy that married jane fonda?
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Originally posted by john9001
i thought CNN was owned by that guy that married jane fonda?
Kerry owns CNN?!?! :eek:
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At least 2 reasons Scootter
Most of us in europe has access to plenty of american media and americans dont have the same access to european media. The issues over here has to be pretty serious before you hear about it and all the everyday crap that happens over here dont reach you in the same way.
American politics has a greater effect on the rest of the world than european politics has on you.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Envy
Yes, we 're jealous as hell that we don't live in a country populated by Bubbas like yourself, where social darwinism is preached wholesale but biological darwinism is increasingly taboo.
I'm so jealous that I don't live in probably the most politically corrupt 1st world nation on the planet.
I'm even more jealous that I'm not ruled by a military-industrial complex that's been out of control for almost a century and shows little signs of stopping.
I'm jealous of the fact I'm not conditioned to see "liberal" as a dirty word whilst not understanding the true meaning of the concept.
I'm jealous of the fact I endorse leaders who preach freedom, democracy and free trade whilst denying these same things to the rest of the world.
I guess above all I'm jealous that I don't live next door to a fat-assed complacent *****stick-can't think-for-himself-drone like yourself.
What else am I jealous of?
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You're not helping, momus. Feeding the trolls just pisses off the decent Yanks on this board.
Where north of the M25 are you from?
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Originally posted by Scootter
We must be very important to you guys (you know who you are) for you to spend so much time putting us down
What about all the countries you "put down" with military invasion?
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Originally posted by Scootter
Why is so much energy spent on trying to understand the USA and also trying to change us?
I think it's partly because your country has this penchant for bombing places. Since the end of World War 2, every US administration except maybe Carter (can't remember any, anyway) has bombed somebody or another. This sort of thing does tend to draw people's attention and criticism. It's a bit like all the FDBs turning up at the con wearing only lacy G-strings and whining about everyone staring, laughing and being sick. ;)
Also the US is the largest economy in the world (I think this still true - although the current president appears to be trying his hardest to put a stop to this). This gets people's attention too. For eg - the Hong Kong dollar is currently linked within a narrow band to the US dollar - so we're taking a big bath on currency exchange rates with the dollar's current nosedive. The loss of money has also been known to draw attention and criticism from folks.
This is a US board, so the majority of folks are from the US. As many are at great pains to point out, a lot of US people don't care a hoot about the rest of the world, so that leaves very little left to argue about but US stuff. We'd probably criticize other countries more if we thought you'd give a damn - or at least knew where they were. ;)
This complacency for foreign matters, coupled with the habit of bombing foreigners, generally means than any US-foreign interaction that the guys on the board care about enough to argue over often involves places being bombed by the US.
Finally it appears - to me a least - that the BBS is populated by a lot of folks who lean heavily to the right (possibly related to some sort of RSI or something), a lot of the non-US lot are from European and thus tend to be more left leaning - so basically have little to agree with the right-wing US boys.
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I am informed about why B-17s had to drop 650,000 tons of bombs on Europe to settle the 'problems' there.
If the U.S. has any problems, I have not been effected by them. Gas prices are the only thing that has an influence on my life.
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Maybe because the population of this board is 80%+ from the US?
This is a question our lord ripsnort asks often too.
Why does it bother you so much we have an opinion? Aren't you for that "free speech" and all?
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it's only free if you're an american.
:aok
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-dead- has a point to and Martlet is as far from the truth as only he can be.
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Originally posted by Nilsen10
At least 2 reasons Scootter
Most of us in europe has access to plenty of american media and americans dont have the same access to european media. The issues over here has to be pretty serious before you hear about it and all the everyday crap that happens over here dont reach you in the same way.
American politics has a greater effect on the rest of the world than european politics has on you.
Thanks for you post Nilsen, I see your point. I learn about other countries by the use of short-wave radio as I find it fascinating to listen to foreign news reports. The information we receive here is very little and most has to do with how events effect the US. I realize this is a problem and would like the spread of information to be more evenly applied to the masses.
Regards,
Dead:
Thanks also for your insightful post, I wonder what would things be like if we keep out of things around the world, Korea, Berlin Airlift, Panama ect, would things in the world be better or worse? We may never know, we as a Nation would be better off if we keep to ourselves. Some day perhaps we will take care of our own and let the EU handle things on that side of the pond, I for one would be ok with that. Thanks again for your input and discussion with out the rhetoric many like to throw around, take care.
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Scootter: Why is so much energy spent on trying to understand the USA and also trying to change us?
It seems to me that 80 percent of the posts here have to do with what’s wrong with the USA and how we are such dim failures to the rest of the world.
US is the single major power in the world and quite eager to to throw its weight around. It is only natural that people are worrying about it more than they are worrying about some minor powers.
If you lived next to a rabbit and a moody elephant, which one would you watch more carefully?
not ever about what is wrong in say Germany or Russia or even Denmark, why is that, are these countries so perfect or not worth talking about?
Exactly right. For most of us those countries are not worth our time talking about.
miko
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there is of course some envy. There is also some desire to foist 'culture' on us... the main export and product of most of these countries.
socialism... it only works if everyone agrees its a good thing... well... it doesn't really work then but everyone is in the same leaky boat so it doesn't feel as bad... Not good to have a vibrant economy do well.
and.. fear.. possibly. That one is weak... certainly the U.S. has dropped some ordinance and moved some carriers around but... most would admit that the U.S. is far and away the most benovolent and fair superpower in the entire history of the world... Who else before or since could take over the world and didn't even try?
And... it does amaze me that there are so few girly men in the U.S. pounding the keys on their puters.. The game attracts a little older crowd. As you get older you see things more clearly is probly the reason that the liberals are outnumbered in a media that they should dominate. Therein lies a little more of the bitterness.
and yes sandie... ra is right... you like the euros because they are flaming liberals like yourself. You should think tho... do you really want the U.S. brought down to that level? The reason socialism doesn't work isn't because it needs a tuneup... It doesn't work because it is wrong.
lazs
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Originally posted by SunTracker
I am informed about why B-17s had to drop 650,000 tons of bombs on Europe to settle the 'problems' there.
If the U.S. has any problems, I have not been effected by them. Gas prices are the only thing that has an influence on my life.
I was always lead to believe that a large number of Europeans were strongly opposed to those bombings, too. Not just left wing liberals either! Just goes to show there's no pleasing some people. ;)
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Originally posted by miko2d
not ever about what is wrong in say Germany or Russia or even Denmark, why is that, are these countries so perfect or not worth talking about?
Exactly right. For most of us those countries are not worth our time talking about.
miko
Hmmm...took 2 mins to do a quick search:
Finland (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108525&highlight=Finland)
Europe in general (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107636&highlight=Sweden)
French Canada (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108861&highlight=Europe)
An attempt to gloify America..much like yours Scooter (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108924&highlight=Europe)
A thread about a movie that turned into a Soviet Bash (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109161&highlight=Finland)
Want some more?
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Scootter: It seems to me that 80 percent of the posts here have to do with what’s wrong with the USA..
...why is that, are these countries ... not worth talking about?
miko: Exactly right. For most of us those countries are not worth our time talking about.[/i]
Curval: Hmmm...took 2 mins to do a quick search:
...
Want some more?
I want some more explanation what you mean. You are apparently adressing me but I have no idea what you are saying from the content of your post.
Could you please clarify? What kind of search did you do, what was it supposed to discover or illustrate? Were the resusts supposed to substantiate of my agreement/explanation of Scootter's assertions or refute them?
miko
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You said "for most of us those countries are not worth talking about"...
I put up some threads that evidence lots of discussion about other countries..most of which isn't very positive.
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Curval: You said "for most of us those countries are not worth talking about"...
I put up some threads that evidence lots of discussion about other countries..most of which isn't very positive.
I see. I was talking in context of Scootter's assertion that apparently (to him) 80% of the posts have to do with USA. Which means about 20% should be expected to discuss other countries.
I also said "most of us", not "all of us", so I expected some of us to sometimes find it worthwhile to discuss countries other than USA.
Besides, the threads you cited are not really dedcated do the discussion of a foreign country only - they also involve discussion of USA. For example the tread Finland (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108525&highlight=Finland) only involves 18 posters and contains the discussion of several general issues and the ways they are handled in Finland and US. So are the others.
miko
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Originally posted by john9001
i thought CNN was owned by that guy that married jane fonda?
No she became a born again baptist and he devorced her. then sold Cnn.
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"I read post after post from other countries and most deal with what’s wrong here, not ever about what is wrong in say Germany or Russia or even Denmark, why is that, are these countries so perfect or not worth talking about?"
Miko...this is what Scooter said.
It is nonesense.
As to the Finland thread, the title was "Only in Finland"..in other words.."This could never happen in the US." Rip was fishing again.
Here is what YOU said in that one "Does that constitute the finns' admission that wealthy are to be kept to higher standard of behavior while poor riff-raff is just mindless scum from whom not much can be expected in terms of good behavior?
miko"
You said earlier "for most of us those countries are not worth talking about"...
You yourself seemed to have been interested in talking aout Finland at least.
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Originally posted by Scootter
Dead:
Thanks also for your insightful post, I wonder what would things be like if we keep out of things around the world, Korea, Berlin Airlift, Panama ect, would things in the world be better or worse? We may never know, we as a Nation would be better off if we keep to ourselves. Some day perhaps we will take care of our own and let the EU handle things on that side of the pond, I for one would be ok with that. Thanks again for your input and discussion with out the rhetoric many like to throw around, take care.
Well thanks for the interesting topic. It's true we'll never know whether the world would better or worse off for any war or avoided war - and every war, interdiction or what all has its pros and cons, and every war has at least two sides. Right or wrong, they're all guaranteed to spark off a debate.
An old Taoist story touches on this with an old man who the rest of village reckon is nuts because he sees what they view as good or bad fortune as being indeterminate - "could be good, could be bad: hard to say for sure". The story illustrates it thus: It's good to have a son - but if you have a son he may lose his leg - but if he loses his leg he can't go to war, so he won't die like the other men - by which point the rest of the village understands the old man's behaviour and decide he's wise.
As to why people should have a negative view of the US, I think Kurt Vonnegut, one of my favourite writers (an American, no less! :eek: ) and a much wiser and kinder man than me, says it best in Cat's Cradle:
'I guess Americans are hated a lot of places.'
'People are hated a lot of places. Claire pointed out in her letter that Americans in being hated, were simply paying the normal penalty for being people, and that they were foolish to think they should somehow be exempted from that penalty.'
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Its when we stop debating current events that it gets really dangerous.
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Curval: Miko...this is what Scooter said.
It is nonesense.
You are correct. It mostly is nonsence. I replied to a specific part that was actually correct and that seemed to surprise him - that people would talk about US more than about other countries on this board.
As to the Finland thread, the title was "Only in Finland"
The title - yes, only about Finland. The content - not entirely.
Here is what YOU said...
You said earlier "for most of us those countries are not worth talking about"
You yourself seemed to have been interested in talking aout Finland at least.
"Most of us" does not necessarily include me all the time. In that particular thread I was not so much interested in a discussion of Finland but in discussion of egalitarian socialism, using Finland as an example.
I did discuss Finland and other countries on occasion without regard to US but most of my posts are about general issues and their effect on US.
miko
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America and her news is Europes best "Reality TV" series. They all tune in thinking/hoping they can be/live part of the American dream. thus being this virtual American, they feel compeled to give us their opinion on issues we don't care a rats arse what they think of :)
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lol Eagler :D
More like an X-rated comedy. :)
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everyone always trys to get at #1
enjoy the attention ;)
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Well, you certainly generated a lot of discussion.
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Originally posted by Scootter
Why is so much energy spent on trying to understand the USA and also trying to change us?
It seems to me that 80 percent of the posts here have to do with what’s wrong with the USA and how we are such dim failures to the rest of the world. I read post after post from other countries and most deal with what’s wrong here, not ever about what is wrong in say Germany or Russia or even Denmark, why is that, are these countries so perfect or not worth talking about?
You seem to have a bleak understanding of statistics and posts.
That "80% of the posts" is posted primarily by Americans *****ing about Bush, Kelly, NASA, NRA, whoever-opposes-the-NRA, left wing this, right wing that. 20% of that "80% of posts are posted by non-Americans, which stastically represents the mix of the player base.
Americans also have some sort of Springer-ish fascination with being the centre of attention (as we see in your post).
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I'm always surprised by some American's need to believe that people in other coutnries envy them. Is it necessary for some king of internal validation?
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Originally posted by Vulcan
You seem to have a bleak understanding of statistics and posts.
That "80% of the posts" is posted primarily by Americans *****ing about Bush, Kelly, NASA, NRA, whoever-opposes-the-NRA, left wing this, right wing that. 20% of that "80% of posts are posted by non-Americans, which stastically represents the mix of the player base.
Americans also have some sort of Springer-ish fascination with being the centre of attention (as we see in your post).
Please read my 2nd post on page one, I agree 80% was to high and changed it to 30%, I also stated that "it seems to me" so it is a bit subjective. I do feel many posts start with an entirely different line and then somehow morph into lets all bash the US.
I really only care as to the reasons why and have asked for things people would change about the US if they could. The reason for this request is more about personal enlightenment and I would ask this if I was sitting with you having a drink.
I enjoy the give and take we have here as a community and yes learn from each of you (L.D.V. excepted as I have him blocked ;) )
Thanks for your comments, and I do not have a bleak outlook and am really quite an optimist. "Good things happen, bad things happen, and in an eyeblink we each are gone, while we are here live life, love life"
Have a good and safe weekend, everyone (even LDV). :)
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Good post Scooter.
Americans are important to me. If you guys sneeze the rest of the world catches a cold (as someone very famous once said). You are now the most effective conventional military power in the world which can effect any meaningful change, and you are a powerhouse of industry and invention. So yes, that is an interest Oh...and you speak English.
I find it interesting to read the posts about America..what's wrong or right with it as it give me a good idea of what people 'on the ground' think about 'over there'.
It has to be said, that most of the Americans on this board do lean very heavily to the right. There are other places I go to where they lean more to the left. It's a big country and you have big fringes as a result. I do think it's a bit silly that people here think that they are 'the voice of America'. They are only one voice in a vast clamour. There are many Americans who have very much the same opinions as Europeans do about America. It's just that many of them are not on this board.
I don't really think that anything that is said on these BBS's is going to have a vast effect on what anyone believes, but it does open new avenues of thought which may lead to that.
Some Americans here are able to talk about only one issue (e.g. gun laws) and eloquently at that, although they may not be so relevant in Europe, it's fun to jump in and cross swords in an informed debate.
Speaking of political scandals...have you heard the news there about the lady (A Ms. Gunn) who worked for GCHQ and spilled the beans about the Americans asking the Brits to spy on the UN? The authoties here decided not to press charges...many think because of all sorts of embarassing revelations that might come up about the legality of the Iraq war.
But when it comes down to it...if I were to post, say something of topical interest here...a guy who had been pushed in front of an underground train, or the current debate about MMR jabs for children, I just don't think that US posters would have any interest and would bother to respond.
As for envy? No. Not with me at least. The people who make the envy argument are just being arrogant.
Ravs