Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Morpheus on February 26, 2004, 09:28:27 PM
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Ok here it is. With the introduction of AH2 I am going to be shut down... My computer that I use for gaming simply wont handle the demands of AH2. My system specs are way too far below min to even think about downloading the latest version of beta. So I got a favor to ask from you computer buffs who know their stuff and are up to date with the latest and greatest.
I have been looking over some of the new stuff out there on the market and get more confused the more I look at it all. :( So I am hoping if any of you guys who know their stuff and have some time could help me out a bit... What I mean is what is good? IE. THe best for the money? I would like to start from ground up and build the system myself.
This would be a huge help to me as I am not nearly up to date on the latest and greatest... What Im looking for is a good running machine, that I can put together to run AH2 and nothing more for a decent... ANY advice/suggestions would be much appreciated.
thanks all.
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If you planning to spend big bucks for the fastest thing coming out .. Its in a holding pattern for the next few months as for the 64 bit technology gets stablized and the prices drop .
there's also another set of video cards comming out soon to so the prices will drop on the current models also ...
theres tons of threads in here from the last few months with different proven systems ..
my fav Amd system currently is
Asus A7N8X-X or deluxe mainboard
2500+ athlon (it oc's to 3200+ specs)
duel 256 or 512 ddr ram
Any upper end video card (im running a TI 4600 in mine )
but you may want to look at the FX and ATI cards
A good mid stack case with a 430watt power supply is best
I built this for just under 500 us minus the video card
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Personally I buy about 4 to 6 months behind, I mean if a 1.6ghz comes out, ussually about 4 - 6 months later it is replaced & comes into my price range.
Ussually I can run a machine for 2.5 to 2 years without major upgrade, if I do upgrade figure 3.
I like Abit motherboards. Extrememely simple to build, all settings are in the software, not on the motherboard.
While SATA Drives are the big thing I don't think they have all the bugs worked out.
So I'd still recomend a good IDE WD 80 to 120 Gig HD 8mb buffer
Video, is your preference & depends a lot on how much $$$ you have left over.
I think ATI has better quality for the $, my opinion. your milage may vary.
I've been useing cheap enlight cases, and add fans as needed. Chop, cut, drill, whatever it takes.
When I am going to build a new system I figure it will take me a month or 2 of researching, reading, comparing.
Then ask in here. Go back & read some more.
Every hour you spend ahead of time save's you days and weeks of downtimes with problems.
In short, educate yourself.
Have fun, can be a real power trip :)
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would help alot of we knew how much you were willing to spend, maybe take it from there ;)
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Thanks guys... Money, well sure that is an issue but I dont want to sacrifice quality and reliability for a few dollars.
My budget would be somewhere along the lines of $1500. But this means for everything. Keyboard, monitor, mouse the whole shabang. I've been reading up on things as much as I can but there is no replacement for first hand knowledge. Which is why I asked you all for advice.
Thanks again
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Morph go with what rosco said. That is almost the exact system I am running now (have a 2600 +) and my FPS stay pretty much locked at my monitor refresh rate (85 FPS.)
I can only assume that with my current performance in AH1 that AH2 wont be a problem.
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Morph - some good advice in here already. I based my new system on advice I got in here - Asus A7N8X DLX, AMD XP2600, Radeon 9600 Pro - and always get a 3-digit frame rate in AH, usually around the 120fps mark. For $1500, you should have change to spare.
One thing though. If going with an AMD CPU, make sure you have an adequately ventilated case with the optional fans. Expect the CPU to run at about 45° celsius.
Oh, and don't bother with a sound card with this board. The onboard sound is excellent, especially for AH if you're using a headset for comms. If you have a second PC, the A7N8X has onboard networking that should come in handy.
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my system runs ah2 nicely and would not be expensive to build.
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Newegg's wishlist emailing system is broke at the moment. Here's what I put together - currently 1497.49 total
ANTEC Black Solution Series ATX Mid-Tower Case with 350W Power Supply, Model "SLK3700-BQE" -RETAIL
ASUS K8T800 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU, Model "K8V Deluxe" -RETAIL
SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -BULK
AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 1MB L2 Cache, The Only 64-bit Windows Compatible Processor - Retail
Mushkin Blue Line 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - Retail (2 of these for 1 GB memory)
Seagate 120GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model ST3120026AS, OEM
SAMSUNG 955DF-T/T 19" DynaFlat CRT Monitor -RETAIL
Logitech Cordless MX Duo USB/PS2 104keys -RETAIL
Lite-On Black DVD-Dual Drive, Model LDW-811S/LDW-851S, OEM (DVD+/-R +/-RW burner)
Lite-On Black 52X CD-ROM, Model LTN526S/526D , Full OEM Pack
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition with Service Pack SP1a - OEM
BB
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Now is actually not a good time to build a new system. None of the current motherboards for either AMD or Intel will be upgradable. AMD moves the Athlon 64 to Socket 939, with the launch scheduled for March 29th. Intel is moving to "socket" 775. (it doesn't have pins, so it isn't technically a socket) just a few weeks later. This means that anything you build now will not have a CPU upgrade path. It gets even worse though, as Intel is moving to PCI Express and dropping the AGP slot. AMD Athlon 64 boards will move to PCI Express a little later in the year as well. That means that a board with only an AGP slot will be difficult to buy new video cards beyond the current state of the art as early as mid-2005. It's also worth mentioning that even the ATX form factor for cases will likely be moving to the new BTX form factor by the end of the year as well. There's also DDR2 memory that will start to show up on Intel's next high end P4 chipset, Alderwood (i925).
Basically if you build a system now you won't be able to upgrade it (CPU, Video, and possibly memory) without replacing the motherboard and maybe the case in as little as a year.
If you can't wait, the Athlon XP 2500+ on an Asus A7N8X series board is a good deal right now.
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A mobile 2500+ and a DFI motherobard is a pretty good deal to i think.
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Listen to Bloom25: he speaks sense. I expect to be buying a new games PC towards the end of this year or early next. I expect it to be AMD-64 based with PCI-X graphics, a mid-range graphics card, and 4-8 GB of memory. Likely it will be a Shuttle or other SFF system.
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Yah, if ya wanna save a couple hundred on the system above - do the Barton2500 thing. I like my Epox 8RDA3+ as a cheaper but full featured alternative to the Asus/Abit duo.
BB
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If you're behind the times with software as well as hardware, consider getting a Dell or other pre-made machine. Get it with a fast cpu but the worst video card and lowest amount of memory you can. Then upgrade the video card and add more memory yourself as soon as you get it. Make darn sure the computer has an AGP slot though. Dell has cheap or free DVD burners bundled with lots of their computers, they have cheap decent monitors too. Just don't buy any memory or video card upgrades from them. Get that stuff yourself.
You ought to be able to get a pretty fast P4 for around $1000 including a nice 17" or 19" monitor, and then add on a fast Nvidia card (ATI if you run games other than AH, but Nvidia has better AH2 performance based on beta reports) and as much ram as you can afford. It won't be the absolute fastest machine out there but it will be fast enough and you'll get new all the software you need, tech support, warranties, etc etc. Buy your memory from a reputable source. I have bought a lot of memory from crucial.com because I don't go for extreme overclocking, I have never had a problem with their shipping policies, and they have a generous return/exchange policy. Don't buy cheap bargain memory or you will regret it. Go with Crucial, Kingston, or one of the other quality brands.
Or if you want to do the whole thing yourself, go ahead but it won't save you much money since you're buying everything from scratch.
IMHO.
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Even a $399 emachine with an extra 256 memory and a $100 Geforce 4600 ti with run AH 2. That is of course as long as you get one with an ATHLON in it and not a crappy celeron. They aint the greatest, but they are great deals, and computers are so over speed these days anyway, you can get an Athlon 2200+ or so Emachine on the cheap.
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Did this for $500
just got a new M/B, Video card and ram, everything else was in my old box
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Morph...
All advice above is pretty solid...the real key is what you want out of the system. you can build a great AH2 system for about ~$650 including video (assuming you have ok monitor now).
ASUS/ABIT/Gigabyte all make good high quality MB's that are good if you want to overclock. If your not the OC type a bunch of "2nd tier" MB's also would work DFI Shuttle ECS MSI IWILL SOYO all have decent products (ECS is very spotty on quality but they're great if they work:)).
You can get a decent 2500-2800+XP combo a bunch of places on line or from fry's.
you'll want to get 2 x 256 2700DDR (or 3200 if you get agood deal) instead of 1 x 512 if you get a barton core AMD XP+ (2500 and above)...
I'm running a Ti 4200 MSI card...still whups on most of the "new" cards...Ti 4600 is even better.
Any case with a good power supply (350W or better) is OK...400W is better in long run. If your really just buying for AH2 then "go low" and save the coin. You'll have it if you need to upgrade for AH3 :eek: :eek: :eek: in a couple of years...
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Yeah some good advice here but i wouldnt call the DFI a 2nd tier motherboard specially if you like to over-clock. If thats what you wanna achieve i really think you cant go past a DFI and a Mobile 2400+. I know a freind who has reached 285 fsb on that combo, And dual channel ram is good but can limit some overclocks. I can only do 11X210 with dual 512's and 11X228 with one, my barton is locked however the mobiles are not. And the mobiles use less Vcore
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I just but a DFI board in one of my systems over the weekend. It certainly seems like a decent board but I wouldnt recomend it to anyone specifically as an OC board unless they have a lot of experience. Overall the documentation is pretty sketchy. I'm not really an OC'er...I'll tweak em up a bit but haven't really bothered to push the edge with anything. Obviously the budget in question here limits things to "stock" OC'ing anyway...can't see adding the cooling capacity.
You can overclock a barton core cpu pretty easily with the stock fan and still keep temp in the ~45-48C range. I thought you needed the twin sticks to maximize dual channel thruput...certainly not an expert however. Even if you get faster CPU speed I think your memory bottlenecks with a single stick...but I may be wrong.
AH2 isnt going to tax any stock XP2600+ or higher board with a decent video card and 512 onboard eitherway. Only thing I'd add is to make sure you but in a low end sound card and disable the onboard sound...big frame rate diff in most systems.
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With the Asus A7N8X- deluxe your dont need to disable the sound it works great (just get the Asus updated driver for it )
I have great sound and my Vox hasnt gone out yet at all .
It fades out transmiting on my old AC97 sound mainboard though every now and then but its never stopped receiving most of the garbely gook we get .
With my 2500+ running at a shy 2.2ghz my idle temp is 45-48c and heavy gamming temp is 50-52c at most . (52c after playing C&C generals zero hour <-- this game is a heavy hitter cranked all the way up )
And Dual sticks of ddr is a must to get the most out of it.
One thing to pay attention to is the 2500+ bartons though they are supposed to have locked cores on the new ones ...
I myself havent seen one yet ( last one I perchased was in Dec)
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I agree with Bloom, wait. AH2 is months away. If you simply can't wait, as in current machine is dead, my recommendation is as below. I've built 3 of these and they work well, overclock well and give 3200+ performance for around $1100 including monitor, keyboard, mouse, and MS XP Pro.
Hot Athlon XP 2500+ (http://www.tysa.com/15jg52_uploads/chasr_hot_xp.htm)
I don't recommend spending the money to buy the XT cards but oc the pro's to XT+ speeds.
Building your own is cheaper than buying from a tier one supplier such as Dell if you compare them with identical components. Thing is you won't be able to oc the Dell.
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Chasr...
Where did you pull those prices from...nice price on the XP Pro?
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Originally posted by humble
Chasr...
Where did you pull those prices from...nice price on the XP Pro?
New Egg
XP Pro is OEM, no documentation or Microsoft support
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system below cost me about 1300 bucks, that includes the 199 I spent on windows XP. Ive heard there is a way to get that cheaper tho.
And by the way, My motherboard has problems if your interested in some wild overclocking, but other than that, it smokes.
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WhiteHawk,
I also can't get as much out of my IC7-Max3 as the hype at its introduction would have one believe. 240 FSB (960 effective) is maximum stable speed now. It ran for months @ 245 and ran prime 95 for 24 hours but lately just won't do it. Temperature isn't the issue as the cpu is watercooled and the case has 7 80mm fans. I'd hoped to hit 250 FSB, w/memory @ 1:1 @ 2.5-4-3-5 timings. I got close but I think the Abit voltage bug is the limiting factor. It still screams.