Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Frogm4n on February 27, 2004, 09:48:38 AM
-
Hopefully now our troops will have a gun that is as reliable as the ak's. So they are not spending half their time cleaning their guns while ak users are picking theirs out of the mud or sand and fireing with no problems.
http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military-le/rifles-carbines/xm8.html
(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/m4xm8.png)
List of videos here
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?s=1-292925-xm8_grenade.php
-
Beautiful weapon. I wonder if it shoots freakin' laser beams?!
Hmm, how soon until the civilian model hits the market?
-
US should go with the AK74....
-
Is it going to use the same 5.56MM nato round?
-
GtoRA2: Is it going to use the same 5.56MM nato round?
Unfortunately yes, but it can be converted to different calibers by replacing the barrel and other parts - which can be done by an operator in the field.
miko
-
Miko,
How large a caliber change can be done? Will it be able to go all the way up to 7.62 nato?
-
ill take one in .270 !
any guesses how much a base civy one will cost when first on market.
hehe i bet it aint 600 bucks,
-
I'd put it roughly at 1k dollars if it isn't auto. If it is, 10k. Those bastards really sell full auto guns for rediculous amounts.
2005 it goes into full production: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as61-e.htm
-
why would you want one dolf? isnt a regular rifle good enough, or are you looking for something cooler looking? :D
-
*Pew* *Pew* *Pew*
My best lasergun impression :-P
-
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
US should go with the AK74....
Have you actually shot with an AK74? The handle is smaller than small... I got to try it in the army, and the general consensus was that only women or midgets could use that one.
-
The XM8 looks like something out of the "Aliens" movies.
-
I think it is a tad smurfy, but I am not a huge M16 fan.
I loved my AR when I owned it, but the idea of having to keep a combat rifle super clean seems a bit dumb.
We should just adopt FALs.
-
GtoRA2: Miko,
How large a caliber change can be done? Will it be able to go all the way up to 7.62 nato?
I have never seen a specific info on that one.
I believe that the best military round would be not a .308 (7.62 NATO) but a .243-.250 ( 6.2-6.35mm) with a 90-105 grain projectile shot at the same velocity.
The weapon design looks nice for a person who likes to play with parts. Having a spare 20 inch barel to swiftly replace a hot one or for long-range shooting would be nice.
miko
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Have you actually shot with an AK74? The handle is smaller than small... I got to try it in the army, and the general consensus was that only women or midgets could use that one.
It's a fine weapon, you just need a proper variant. This (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as43-e.htm) one fits perfectly.
-
The XM8 looks like something out of the "Aliens" movies.
it does, doesn't it.
(http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421458090/8.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Have you actually shot with an AK74? The handle is smaller than small... I got to try it in the army, and the general consensus was that only women or midgets could use that one.
Used a 47 for 3 years, better than a Galil which I also used - liked the Fn Fal a lot but that's more sentimental I suppose - Kalashnikov does the job, is light, works every time and to clean it you take it with you when you go shower.
Sov weapons look like crap but they work when everything else has to be sent back to the factory for fine tuning.
-
"""to clean it you take it with you when you go shower. """
LOL, when i was in the service, after a week in the field , i would take my M-1 into the shower with me , hot soapy water cleans people and guns. i never had my M-1 jam or missfire and it got dirty.
-
The specs are great but it looks like a toy, will it come with an orange cap over the muzzle? ;)
BTW does anyone know if John Kerry voted to cancel this one too?
-
I wonder where they got the figures for the cost comparison. Those numbers seem a bit off.
MiniD
-
WOW!!! Everyone should take a look at these videos!
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?s=1-292925-xm8.php
-
When I see plastic on a rifle I worry about cold. I assume they have tested the ying yang out of the thing but the whole reviever group looks like plastic.
-
Whatever they come up with it should have looser tolorences than the m-4 so as not to jam up in the desert so much.
thats what made the AK-47 so good.
-
Used to shower with A2's too.
Call me old fashioned, but that M4 gets me hard.
The new one looks ok - but it needs to shoot. I dont think many opposing forces will give up at the sight of a new rifle.
Either way - forget about civilian use. Its too 'scary' looking. ;)
-
The XM8 looks like something straight out of Star Wars.
http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/images/weapons/disruptor_rifle.gif
:lol
-
Only Wood on a gun is sexy.
-
I WANT THAT GUN
-
[de-lurk]
On all the gunboards I frequent, the XM-8 matter has two sides. One side says how the XM-8 will finally give a cleaner, more reliable weapon due to it's gas system - the M16/M4 vents gas directly into the receiver onto the bolt carrier whereas the XM-8 uses a gas piston and rod to actuate the bolt. The other side says that the XM-8 isn't enough of a leap in technology to replace the M-4. Still the same 5.56x45 mm round as the M-4, unless those that are pushing for the 6.8x43mm round succeed.
H&K also revealed a new gas-piston upper for the M-4 at the SHOT show it seems. The same familiar ergonomics (which the shooters are very particular about) as the M-4, but with a cleaner gas system. Maybe a transitionary piece between the M-4 and XM-8?
Interesting stuff to read more on...
mauser
[re-lurk]
-
What happened to the Caseless HK weapon in I think 4.7mm - G10?
-
I'm an H&K fan. Anything H&K makes is tested beyond Mil specs. They want their stuff to work. Climate shouldnt be any kind of problem. Hopefully the US will adopt the XM-8 as the new weapon of choice.
-
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
What happened to the Caseless HK weapon in I think 4.7mm - G10?
http://www.hkpro.com/g11.htm
End of doc gives reasons for it's demise.
mauser
-
Originally posted by 59bassman
Whatever they come up with it should have looser tolorences than the m-4 so as not to jam up in the desert so much.
thats what made the AK-47 so good.
not as good as the RC51 though
-
Originally posted by Pongo
not as good as the RC51 though
I believe the RC51 is a motorcycle.
-
Originally posted by 59bassman
I believe the RC51 is a motorcycle.
I believe that you have problems you can't handle.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
I believe that I have problems I can't handle.
-
OOOOOOHHHHHH how very clever, changing quot e..
Pardon me I am derunkl!
Are you mister blaczk?
YOU can admit it...
-
Originally posted by GtoRA2
OOOOOOHHHHHH how very clever, changing quot e..
Pardon me I am derunkl!
Are you mister blaczk?
YOU can admit it...
Step away from the bottle.:D
-
HOw mudh fun would thsat be?
Man I want to do somethingmean to my upstairs neighbors. I think they are jumping up and down to piss me ooff!
-
pull the fire alarm:(
-
shoo we are talking guns here
a thread about a dead,dweeby,lich-looking guitarist is........
<=====thatway
-
Good point.
Back to guns, I checked out one of the videos, interesting controlls on that thing, and I tghink a guy was shooting it one handed.
I suck. I hijacked :(
-
Never used a RC51 - could you post a pic or some stats?
I have used:
Fn Fal
Fn Fal cut down
Ak47
Galil
R4 & R5 - Licenced Galil copies in South Africa
Uzi - rubbish
Browning MG in 7.62
Bren in 7.62
Cz75 9mm
Star 9mm
Browning HP 9mm
Tokarev 7.62
40mm grenade launcher
Rpg7
Lrac A/t weapon 89mm I think
88mm Bazooka - just plain scary
60mm patmor
81mm mortar
M26
M8 WP grenades
various claymore, toe poppers and at mines
never did qualify on the milan or the 106mm rcl which would have been nice.
-
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Never used a RC51 - could you post a pic or some stats?
I have used:
Fn Fal
Fn Fal cut down
Ak47
Galil
R4 & R5 - Licenced Galil copies in South Africa
Uzi - rubbish
Browning MG in 7.62
Bren in 7.62
Cz75 9mm
Star 9mm
Browning HP 9mm
Tokarev 7.62
40mm grenade launcher
Rpg7
Lrac A/t weapon 89mm I think
88mm Bazooka - just plain scary
60mm patmor
81mm mortar
M26
M8 WP grenades
various claymore, toe poppers and at mines
never did qualify on the milan or the 106mm rcl which would have been nice.
RC51 Is a motorcycle produced by Honda
-
Love the FN-Fal's and Galil's (Ar model in 7.62). They both posses very good reliability and human engineering. Both are accurate for semi's and very comfortable to shoot as I can get a comfortable cheek-weld. Trigger's not great but not bad either. Both have excellent balance.
Hate the HK-91 series. Poor human engineering, reliability (fluted chamber hates sand). Worst trigger pull of the bunch. Worst front sight- the hood way too thick, the brittle front sight plate too wide, leading to poor accuracy. Poor balance, weight shifted more towards barrel end. Awkward for me.
Love the human engineering of the M16 series, just hate the fact of direct exhaust gasses contaminating the rotating bolt directly.
Hate the human engineering of the AK47 series. Love the reliability which is the best of the bunch. Worst accuracy of the bunch.
The above is my opinion only based on the samples that I've fired. I really like the 7.62 NATO round (I like the fact that I don't need to buy two different calibers of ammo to shoot my L1a1 and Rem 700 PSS. Wish I had the opportunity to own a Galil AR762 (I did own a Galil AR223. Was my all time favorite except for the caliber.)
Gun models are like car models. Ask a hundred different enthusiasts and will get a hundred different responces.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
WOW!!! Everyone should take a look at these videos!
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?s=1-292925-xm8.php
Really interesting stuff!
the XM8 reminds me of the G-36...I guess it has the H&K genes after all..
(http://www.hkpro.com/image/G36RIFLE.jpg)
Tronsky
-
:lol The Xm8 is a g36. The plastic shell is just modified a little.
-
Will it be capable of accepting M16 magazines?
-
Is that guy in the videos firing blanks when he is shooting one handed on full auto or is the recoil and muzzle cxlimb really that low on this weapon or is he one really bad mofo? :)
-
Yeah, it'll take current M-16 mags. H&K was working on the OICW with a modified G-36 in 5.56 under a 20mm gun, but the Pentagon decided against them as primary manufacturer. Since they already have the G-36 mag adaptor designed, it would be a snap to add it to this rifle. Hopefully the US will finally get a rifle that's designed with modern equipment pre-installed. That M4 with an optical sight costs nearly double what a stock, export-model, G-36 runs.
Even if it stays 5.56 caliber it'll still be a better rifle than the M4. Though I must admit, I prefer a heavier round if I'll be shooting at people. The 5.56 is fine as a poodle-shooter, but as a people-shooter it stinks.
Hey mauser? Got any more info on the 6.8x43 round?
-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/sig/gullible.gif) (http://www.totalsims.com/index.php)
-
Hi flakbait
There is a lot of info here:
http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000512.html
and here:
http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000619.html
Dr. Roberts is a wound ballistician and is involved in the development of the 6.8x43 mm round. In a nutshell it is meant to increase the lethality of shorter barrelled weapons which are hamstrung by the 5.56mm rounds velocity dependency. More lethal (better terminal ballistics) than 5.56, but lighter and less recoil than 7.62. As you can see on the first page, uppers have been developed for the M-4/M16 to make it a fairly easy switch. They were supposed to be able to use standard 5.56mm mags for the new round with a new follower, but someone from another board tested it out and the new rounds had problems fitting, thus I think one of the manufacturers involved will be offering new mag bodies.
If you want more links, I can point you to other boards, but I think the info on Tactical Forums is the best you can get publicly. They have a very high signal to noise ratio.
As for XM-8, here is another thread on TF which discusses it:
http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum66/HTML/000264.html
It gives you a good idea of the two sides for and against the XM-8. There's the side that says it doesn't do anything significantly better than the M-4, and the side that is very gee whiz about it.
mauser
P.S. About the cost of the XM-8, I think MiniD is right... something was fishy about the costs on that graphic, but I forgot where I read about it.
-
During ww2, there were a bunch of countries expirementing with a 6.5mm caliber round.
For some wierd reason, they all got whooped. Bad.
Coincidence? I think not.
-
Forgot about this great article, by the well known Mr. Tony Williams:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Assault.htm
Touches on history of service cartridges and also current developments including the XM-8 and 6.8mm rounds mentioned here.
mauser
-
Do some research on the 6.8 Uppers most of the Specops community are using in Iraq/Afghanistan right now. This round combined with the new BMT (blended metal) ammunition MAY end up postphoning the HK rifle, as the current 5.56 magazines can be easily modified for 6.8, and all the modular crap all the shooters are hanging on their weapons will still work.
(http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/docgkr/myhomepage/6.8mm_Barrett.jpg)
November 17, 2003: For the last two years, Special Forces troops have been testing a 6.8mm M-16 and M-4 weapons. The purpose of this is to provide an assault rifle round that has better accuracy and penetration at longer ranges, and does more damage to people and material (like walls or doors) at short ranges. The 6.8mm round (6.8x43mm long) was selected because it allows an M-16 to be adapted to the new cartridge with minimal effort (new barrel and a few adjustments.) Existing 6.8mm cartridges are longer than the M-16 round (5.56x45), thus the special 43mm long 6.8mm (.27 caliber) cartridge being used in the tests. But the 6.8mm round is fatter than the 5.56 round, so the 30 round M-16 magazine only holds 25 6.8mm rounds. There is also talk that the 6.8 round has enough heft to work as a "whisper round" (a low velocity, slower than the speed of sound bullet that can be fired from a silenced rifle and makes very little noise.) Special Forces like this sort of thing, as it makes it easier to achieve surprise and not be detected. Note that, 70 years ago, when the U.S. Army was developing a new rifle (the semiautomatic M-1 Garand), the designer suggested using a 7mm round. He was overruled by generals who believed (wrongly, as it turned out) that a lighter round would not be successful on the battlefield. One rifle that lost out to the M-1 design proposed using a 5.56x45 round. So there is a sense of déjà vu to all this.
Behold, the first public information on the 6.8 Remington Special Purpose Cartridge. Remington and the Special Forces community have been working on this one for a while, and Barrett (manufacturer of the stupendous M82A1 .50 caliber sniper rifle) was the first out of the gate with a replacement upper for the new cartridge.
-
Barrett's web site sucks.
MiniD
-
I bet it was made by mr balck as a sniper web expuuuurriment..
http://www.barrettrifles.com/
-
Yikes... $2400 for that upper receiver.
MiniD
-
Can you imagine cleaning that thing...
-
I saw a Rifle. Where's the new gun? The Pentagon canceled the 'Crusader'