Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BotaBing on October 02, 2000, 11:01:00 AM
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I get a bit tired of hearing people whine about realism of the flight model, realism of the planes, etc when the whole time, we play in one of the most unrealistic considitons of all
- NO DAMAGE FROM FRIENDLY FIRE
Today some idiot on my own team cut right in front of me during a dogfight. I was about 600k off the tail of an enemy NIK, and this love muffin on my team tried to steal the kill by swooping in right in front of me. I was already firing, he cut right into my stream of tracers.
Guess what? Did he take damage? Oh no, I exploded.
Are we ever going to fly with realism? Are we ever going to have to deal with friendly fire?
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Hi
Isn't this done to dissuade the the team-killer quake amazinhunk retard types? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
thanks GRUNHERZ
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Hi
Isn't this done to dissuade the the team-killer quake amazinhunk retard types? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
thanks GRUNHERZ
Yep, it is, the other option is much worse.
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Well, friendly fire was a part of real life, even from quake-type amazinhunk.
There were ACK operators who shot first and asked questions later. Some of our great pilots were downed by idiots who didnt know their plane profiles well enough to not shoot down their own planes.
There are accounts of people shooting their own men down in furballs.
There are lots of reasons why this should be done, not the least of which is that it would be MUCH better to have a realistic game than to continue on with this quake-type mentality.
This is a tiny community. It would be easy to bust people who shoot down their own team on purpose, and ostercize them. IT would also be easy to make a penalty for doing it.
If you shoot and damage someone on your own team, then you are unable to do anything but fly a goon for 30 minutes.
I understand now being able to ram people on your own runway, but off the field, it should be realistic
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The idea is to get so close to the enemy, no one can slip in between ya!!!!!
HeHe!!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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If you shoot and damage someone on your own team, then you are unable to do anything but fly a goon for 30 minutes.
So the next post would be how you're stuck flying a goon for 30 minutes because some idiot cut right in front of you?
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Fatty
Fat Drunk Bastards (http://fdb.50megs.com)
"Quit cryin in yer beer, it'll make it go flat."
[This message has been edited by Fatty (edited 10-02-2000).]
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Well since goons are always needed, at least it would be helpful heh
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Before they model friendly fire, they need to model court-marshalls, accountability and a sense of guilt.
The only thing I get tired of in the Realism argument is that people think a simulation should be real.
AKDejaVu
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Hi
They dont care about being ostricized, otherwise they wouldnt do that. Anyway in RL such things were accidents. Ill bet most team-killers are in here for the 2 week trial who get their kicks by spoiling it for everyone else. Ive seen a couple of these guys in the MA, they act dumb as if they dont know who the enemy is, and continue shooting their team even after repeated messages to shoot the red guys. Then they go into a childish tirade telling everyone to diddly off because they want to do whatever pleases them. You really cant punish them, because they dont care, thats why they kill their wingmen.
thanks GRUNHERZ
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im not sure if this still happens bur i have gotten killed a number of times my by friendly ack eather in base defence or by being to close the the enemys when the 88s fired.
btw i like having friendly fire disabled think of the new guys or morans that take off behind you and start shooting at you.
i could just see the county channel now. When some one does not get a 6 call or when someone get shot down because no one helped him. guys will re up and go hunting to shoot down friendlys.
well it would make this more interesting (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Trell
[This message has been edited by Trell (edited 10-02-2000).]
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Ak yeasss a nice idea if some 1 shot frendly 1 hour no take off
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The one thing that is being slightly overlooked is that the killshooter option forces the pilots to behave realistically.
The situation BotaBing is describing is a side-effect... but I don't really see that happening all too often. I've had it happen to me maybe 3 times. Imagine how many TK posts we'd see if it weren't implimented.
Right now, you have to consider that friendly plane in front of you. That is how it should be. I guarantee there would be more "he got in my way.. he deserved it" situations without it.
I do believe that FF and friendly collisions should be off for scenarios. They are more tightly controlled with people in place that can deal with the TKs.
In the MA, however... with people running 2 week free trials... this will never work.
AKDejaVu
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Does anybody remember the CK/WB beta before killshooter was invented? OH MAN!!!! it was bad. You'd get 3 or 4 jerks that would take of and orbit their own field, just to vulch who ever took off. Then people would get pissed and try to shoot them down. It would usualy end up with a huge furball 1k over the field with no enemy planes in sight...
Udie
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Originally posted by Udie:
Does anybody remember the CK/WB beta before killshooter was invented? OH MAN!!!! it was bad. You'd get 3 or 4 jerks that would take of and orbit their own field, just to vulch who ever took off. Then people would get pissed and try to shoot them down. It would usualy end up with a huge furball 1k over the field with no enemy planes in sight...
Udie
Heheh, ya, 'twas real ugly Udie, I can remember that guy called SPOT doing it on a regular basis!
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It would be much easier just to turn "killshooter" off and make it so friendly fire has no effect whatsoever. Not terribly realistic, but at least it wouldn't be a bad thing.
I agree, it is annoying to die if a dumb friendly runs in front of your bullets.
Another good solution--
AirWarrior used to use a feature called PNG (personata non grata). If you shot down two friendly planes in 24 hours, you could not carry live ammo for a full day.
That allowed people to make a mistake, but not continue deliberate fragging.
A third solution, would be to only enable "killshooter" after you have already damaged a friendly plane.
J_A_B
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If you get shot by someone on your own team, you should get damaged.
As it stands, people don't even care if they run through ack of their own base, and they dont care if they run through the fire from someone on their own team. They pull people right to m16's and dont even care if they get hit.
It's stupid, and with all of the smart people who play this game and the smart people at HTC, I cant believe there isnt a workable solution out there.
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"I cant believe there isnt a workable solution out there."
There is. Scenarios and historical events.
Otherwise why should I have to play your way when online? And conversely you shouldn't have to play my way either. But scenarios have are the home for discipline and rigid rules. Not the MA. Especially with the "free two week trial "doods" having access.
-Westy
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I never liked killshooter. Along with the ability to fly P51 vs. P51, it's one of my very few beefs with AH.
The sim I come from does have friendly fire. And yes, it does have it's share of intentional traitors; the difference is, the other sim has sysops to take care of them.
I think they actually tried to implement killshooter once (I believe they also implemented a "shoot-through" option, much like the buff guns are today), but the uproar against both were so great that they put friendly fire back in (they also have friendly collisions).
Fury
[This message has been edited by Fury (edited 10-02-2000).]
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FYI, I was in a WB event last week. Someone who no one had hear of before managed to shoot down 2 B-17's during a raid before someone else shot him down.
The feeling was he did it on purpose. This is the kind of thing you can't get away from.
On the other hand, I was in a S3 and had a squadie in a Spit V shot down by another Allied pilot. I had to shot the Allied pilot down becuase he was going after another squadie. The Allied thought they were 109's. Wierd toejam does tend to happen when there is no killshooter.
*dune slinks back into the shadows*
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Lt Col Dune
X.O. 352nd Fighter Group (http://www.352ndfightergroup.com)
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"
"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona
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Excerpt from a story presented on the Discovery Channel by an F-105 "Thud" pilot:
...I pulled around, lined up my gun and opened fire on the Mig. He wasn't far enough out to try for a Sidewinder shot. It didn't take much from that Vulcan to bring him down. All I saw was a short, very intense flash from the 20mm cannon shells then his right wing exploded. When we got back and reviewed the gun camera tape I nearly fainted. I was so focused on the Mig, that another 105 flew right between us while I was firing and I never saw him.
That F-105 was hit 5 times by 20mm HE cannon rounds, but damage was minimal. I agree there should be some way to leave killshooter off yet punish those that intentionally kill their team mates.
Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000
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Just leave friendly fire "off". There's no real need to kill someone shooting his teamies if it's not hurting them, just wasting ammo...
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>I cant believe there isnt a workable
>solution out there.
I would think it better if the shooter and the friendly both took equal damage.
1. It would disuade friendlies from cutting in without care.
2. Shooters would still have to take care to hold off fire with a friendly blocking their line.
3. TK dweebs would not be able to make much of a career out of it if they took the same damage they inflicted.
Good comprimise I think.
Regards,
Wab
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Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!
Actually, if you did kill them both, or give both the same damage, this would not only dissuade the friendly fire dweebs (though they would be able to damage same-country players), but would also give consequence for those jumping in front of a teammate firing away.
Just a thought.
edit: Just saw that AKWabbit said exactly the same thing.
[This message has been edited by Renfield (edited 10-02-2000).]
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Someone's cutting in front of you to "steal" the kill?
Get closer.
<shrug>
-- Todd/DMF
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DISABLE FRIENDLY FIRE, PLS!!!!!!
Sry caps.
Last week I was closing a spit 6 when another Rook entered into my plane from my 6.
At the same time I started to fire and....I exploded!!!!!
What a frustrating way to be killed!
Why friendly collision in flight are disabled and friendly fire is on?
Yesterdy I died again by my own fire but I think because a little lag couse I hadn't seen my friend while firing, I saw him a few later and understood.....I hit him!!!!!!
Ciao
Lucchini
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HT should start an arena with no killshooter as an option. When it becomes unplayable you guys can come crying back to the main. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Fine the way it is.
Sure, there are guys who swoop in to 'steal yer kill' (whatever)... but more often than not there are 5 guys lined up behind ya after ya spent the last coupla minutes working the bastige down... who would think nothing of spraying like the bejeezus in order to get the kill, and it would make little difference to them that your plane just happens to be in the way.
Gettin' killed due to killshooter is a freak thing.... very rare. If they turned that off... oh man... the arena and this BBS would be chaos.
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In one scenario we had friendly collisions turned on. Guess what happened. Each time someone spawned on the runway, he immedialtey crashed into a plane already on the runway. Took us few minutes to realize why we were dying.
However, there is a solution. Friendly collisions should be enabled once you take off. Since we don't have real life take off procedures and control tower to coordinate, switch friendly collisions off when you are on the ground. But when you take off, watch it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Anyone agree ?
Killshooter ? Imagine iconless fight with killshooter off (and everyone flying fair, no quakers). You have to ID plane first, then fire. It was so immersive, the best flying in AH I ever had.
Still, quakers are bad and we need the killshooter.
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The only thing about friendly collisions on when airborne is that without ground wind / winsocks / and preferable directions to take off / land, people routinely launch at both ends of the runway and cross. The light guys are already flying and could clip other planes or each other.
This would only work if there was a min AGL altitude for collisions to be enabled and there was more realism to launches.
On the other hand, it is a blast in the scenarios when you have to watch out for the other guys in your form once collisions are turned on. Adds a lot to the immersion. The problem comes when there are warpy players or mass warps. Need intelligent collision code to not cause big trouble. (i.e. bubbles overlap but since that plane was flying backwards...)
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Originally posted by Renfield:
On the other hand, it is a blast in the scenarios when you have to watch out for the other guys in your form once collisions are turned on. Adds a lot to the immersion. The problem comes when there are warpy players or mass warps. Need intelligent collision code to not cause big trouble. (i.e. bubbles overlap but since that plane was flying backwards...)
About flying backwards, I remember one case where plane warped backwards for one second and caused me to collide into it, good ram tactic (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
There wasn't much to be done when plane was 200 yards and suddenly up to my face and again warped back.
I thought I survived for a second or so, when he warped back to 200 yds off, then parts ripped off me.
Fortunately I didn't get fatal wounds of it, more miraculously I lost alot parts of my tail (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I understand your frustration BotaBing, but let's be honest and admit that this happens very rarely. I can count on two fingers the number of times someone has flown in front of me while I was trying to kill someone. And that's in 5 years of fighting, both here and in Warbirds.
I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
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Don't forget the lag!
I believe it is the first cause of friendly fire kill and should be same for collisions.
I prefere both them of in MA.
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Friendly collisions cannot be on. When missions are organised, everyone starts on top of each other. Unless planes take off in groups, one at the end of each runway, it is impossible. And that only works when it is well organised, which it rarely is. Some form of ATC (Air Traffic Control) would be needed, or a method introduced that only cues the friendly collisions once you're airborne.
Friendly fire cannot be put in because dweebs will get frustrated when they can't shoot down enemies and unload on friendlies. The way HTC has it set up, if you wanna be a knob and shoot at your own guys, you recieve your own damage.
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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York (http://www.trueorigins.net/411rcaf)
"Problems cannot be solved with the same awareness that created them" - Albert Einstein[/i]
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Well, here's an idea for you:
Whenever someone shoots down a friendly plane, he will only be able to fly the C202 for 2 hours! MUAHAHA.
Another idea would be to disable the killshooter and code in a "bastard" check: If you shoot down 2 friendly planes in one hour you will only be allowed to fly the 202 for 2 hours... continous killing of friendly planes (say, 5 planes in one week) will get your account cancelled. Works for the 2 week trialers and for those who spoil the game and SHOULD be kicked out no matter if they pay $30 a month.. its better to kick out those morons than to lose 10 or 12 accounts because of that person.
What say ye HT?
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Originally posted by BotaBing:
Well, friendly fire was a part of real life, even from quake-type amazinhunk.
Bota, then I just started flying AH one guy shot me in chute. I was so angry, that wanted to switch to other team to kill him. I never did, but I am sure that some may do it, and not only when frustrated. Now imagine what it will turn into, he will kill you, you will kill him, so it will turn into big ffa. Why to fly to other fields when pray is so close to you? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
So killshooter is the only right decision. In scenarios it may be turn off.
Fariz