Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: darling on May 26, 2001, 01:49:00 PM
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I had an interesting discussion last night on the subject of the dar bars. Now that it is possible to shut off the dar bar for NOE flights, I think it's a valid question wether we should do this in the MA. I think we should, how about the rest of you people? My reasons are as follows:
1. New base layouts prevent single bombers from taking out their plane launching capabilities.
2. Radar really should not work for planes making the effort to come in at low altitude.
3. It would be a whole lot of fun IMHO.
Post your opinions, pls.
I also think its time we get to see the B29 Superfortress. The new bases invite a use for this plane now. Perked of course. So far we have gotten lots of RAF, IJN, IJA, Soviet and LW planes. How about one USAF late-war? We have the G10, Dora and TA-152 to counter it.
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2nd Lt. Hogni "Darling" Gylfason
332nd FG "Flying Mongrels"
143rd Pursuit Wing
(http://peterson.gm.is/img/darling_143.jpg)
[This message has been edited by darling (edited 05-26-2001).]
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Problem is that without bar-dar, all it takes is a few people with nothing to do for an hour to shut down your country for hours on end BOY THAT SOUNDS LIKE FUN!
No bar-dar means I can seek into a large base way behind enemy lines and take it unmolested.
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P-51D, P-38L and P-47D-30 are USAF late war planes.
1Wmaker1
Lentolaivue 34
[This message has been edited by Wmaker (edited 05-26-2001).]
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Originally posted by darling:
I also think its time we get to see the B29 Superfortress. The new bases invite a use for this plane now. Perked of course. So far we have gotten lots of RAF, IJN, IJA, Soviet and LW planes. How about one USAF late-war? We have the G10, Dora and TA-152 to counter it.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/confused.gif)
There are 13 Luftwaffe, 6 RAF, 5 VVS (Russian), 3 Japanese and 2 Italian units in the game as compared to 16 US units (I don't count the LTVs because they had to be American, no other nation built equivalent units).
With the exception of the Luftwaffe, which has a decent number of units, how is the US lacking in units?
As far as 1944 units go, the US is set there too:
US 1944-45 Units
P-38L
P-47D-25
P-47D-30
P-51D
F4U-1C
Luftwaffe 1944-45 Units
Fw190A-8 (hardly a competitive fighter in 1944)
Fw190D-9
Ta152H
Ar234A
RAF 1944-45 Units
Typhoon MkIb
Tempest MkV
Lancaster MkIII (only the twin .50s in the tail distinguish it from 1942 Lancs)
VVS 1944-45 Units
La-7
Yak-9U
IJN/IJA 1944-45 Units
A6M5b (hardly a competitive 1944 fighter)
N1K2-J
Regia Aeronautica 1944-45 Units
NONE
I would like to see the following aircraft added in 1.08:
P-40E Warhawk
Me410A Hornisse
Tu-2
Mosquito FB.VI Series 2
J2M3a Raiden
Ki84 Ia Hayate
Re.2005
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 05-26-2001).]
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We're getting off topic. I am not asking what planes we want for AH. My main question is about the NOE dar bar, not the planeset. My B29 comment was purely incidental, and pointed to HTC.
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Originally posted by darling:
.. I think it's a valid question wether we should do this in the MA. ...
Post your opinions, pls.
I think it would be fun to limit radar in Historic Scenarios and Special Events but not in MA.
Gunner <CAF>
GunrCAF
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No, Darling is right, planes flying NOE should NOT show on bar dar. What is the point of having no dot bar when NOE anyway? Theres 1 field per sector, if the bar dar shows one con and no dot, then, DUH what ELSE can it be? You get people taking off and whomever is trying to sneak in will have high cons diving on his helpless ass.
no dar bar for planes flying 200ft AGL or below, no dot dar for planes 500ftAGL or below.
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The real question here as I see it is what will allowing NOE flights do for gameplay?
With current dar & sector bars there is NO way for more than a single buff to get to target unescorted. Single cons slip through esp if they have taken the time to get alt, & hit quiet area's on the map.
But with the new field layouts a single bomber can no longer close a field.
Allowing a NOE bomber group to get to popup range before being detected will add to current strategy & tatics. They still have to pop up into dar range before their drop or the acks will cut them to shreds.
Will it need adjusting for balance, very likely. But let us give it a try for a tod & see what happens!
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First!!! even with the addition of the Ki-61 the IJN is hardly presented in AH!!!!!!!!
Ok, now to the topic, I don't give a Rats bellybutton about being historically acurate. So this is purely a gameplay issue. IMO, removing the Dot in the sector is fine by me, In fact i would vote for that, But removing the sector bar would be a wrong move (as far as gameplay goes) It would be great for attacking sorties but terrible for defense AND people who don't have hours to search for an ever eluding prey.
NUTTZ
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To keep it on the topic flying NOE in Aces High cannot be done because of the sector bars. If I understood him correctly Darling is not suggesting removing the sector bars altogether, but just for those below radar. Personally I am a fan of NOE missions but due to the current configuration in the MA the success rate is about 1 in 5 in my experience. Consequently they are not very popular with those I fly with because the "enemy" knows we are coming every time. In Warbirds our success was about 50/50.
I am not a fan of the main and hardly fly there, but as it has developed I think removing the sector bars for those flying below radar would allow the option of low level strikes a success rate deserving of the quality of pilots attempting it. Removing the sector bars altogether would be a disaster, but that is not what is being suggested.
As far as aircraft, no fan of the B-29, but we are in need of RAF, IJN, and IJA aircraft above all others.
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CM daddog
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
Snapshots & Check 6! (http://events.hitechcreations.com/)
The probability of survival is equal to the angle of arrival.
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or have the dar bar pop up when planes are within say 10 miles or so of a base. This would force the NOE'ers to weave their way to a base to avoid detection and still provide time for a scramble to the vh, fh or manable acks once they are within the given range and the bar suddenly pops up.
Eagler
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Shut if off please.
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I agree with the Mongrels, anything under 500ft shouldn't show on the bar graph.
I haven't seen anyone mention that radar wasnt widely available in the early days of the war, yet we have this "AWACS" type system in the Main Arena. Thus, asides some idiots going off map, there really isnt any stealth/sneak attacks going on.
Thanks!
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
[This message has been edited by LePaul (edited 05-26-2001).]
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Do something to bar dar plz..
[This message has been edited by hblair (edited 05-27-2001).]
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At least, please remove the bar dar while in flight.
It`s ok to have it when you are in the tower.
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(http://www.lasse.as/twvl.gif)
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
Lasse
[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 05-27-2001).]
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give us Wb kind of radar pls!
wastel
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still think NOE flights should show somehow when within a couple of miles of a base to simulate eyeball contact. The rest of the time they shouldn't show on bar if under dar.
Eagler
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Do not show cons in dar bar OR dot bar if they are flying NOE. that is the proposal here.
Right now in the MA, if you want to...say, set up an HQ raid launched from one of the island bases and you want to fly NOE, there is no chance in hell you will accomplish it. People see a big bar dar streaming across empty ocean, nearing the coast.. and thats when they launch a few fighters to "check it out"... they see the 10ft NOE buffs with fishing lines coming from their ball and tail turrets and the whole raid gets shot down with ease.
If there was no bar dar when NOE, the buffs would be able to slip in close to their target and THEN they would have to climb to avoid the ack. Thats when they would leave NOE and be visible on bar + dot bar.. and thats when the enemy would give birth to their hemmorroids and scramble to their sissy flak tanks and dweebn1ks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Eagler, have you ever overflown an enemy base at 500 feet in a b26? Even if you've got say 4 or 5 guys with you the ack will cut you to shreds! Ussually before you can drop any significant part of your load.
So the only way to survive is to pop up above 6k putting you square in dar for that last 10 miles.
It's getting shot down 40 miles from our target we object to, because of the current sector bar settings.
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I agree 100%!
No bar when NOE. I used to love a low level raid. Not possible here. This would probably cut down on the "30k buffs"
<S>IC
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Originally posted by Ghosth:
Eagler, have you ever overflown an enemy base at 500 feet in a b26? Even if you've got say 4 or 5 guys with you the ack will cut you to shreds! Ussually before you can drop any significant part of your load.
So the only way to survive is to pop up above 6k putting you square in dar for that last 10 miles.
It's getting shot down 40 miles from our target we object to, because of the current sector bar settings.
Yes but two or three 109f's with gonds and a goon could take bases without having to pop up into dar from NOE. I'm for NOE but think an eyeball contact warning, whatever the distance (1k out?) should be a last minute warning otherwise ur ack busting jabo kings will clean ur clock. What about once the first ack or structure falls, the dar bar lights up?
Eagler
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I like Eagler's idea.
Below 500ft there is no radar detection (dot or bar). As soon as the attack gets within ack range everyone in the field's country gets a great big colourful warning that base XX is under attack. Perhaps even have an audible warning like the Check 6 soundfile just to reinforce the situation. I know this has been suggested before.
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I'd have no problem with that at all eagler!
Either a host msg, wav file, or big con bar/dots.
Once in vis range of a field sentry's should report inbound cons no matter what alt.
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S!
This controversy is a result of not having any kind of historical reality present in this Sim. IE: THERE ARE NO FRONT LINES.
If there were front lines and soldiers with binoculars manning them, you'd need no reporting of NOE aircraft by a omnipresent AWACS in the sky. Instead, after a suitable delay, airborne aircraft would receive a chat message vector re. aircraft crossing the front lines at a certain point.
I have said it before, I'll say it again:
This Sim needs more thought re. the real and historical ways in which armed forces of this era confronted each other.
There should be a series of AI artillery/Anti-tank and MG manned strong points between airfields which deliniate the front lines between sides. These could be launching points for tanks, halftracks etc, as well as providing spotting of High AND Low flying enemy aircraft. Unlike the current system of undefended vehicle bases, they would not be located in tactically moronic positions in canyons etc, but rather would be placed on high ground where they could dominate approaching enemy ground vehicles.
A system like this would also give the Tankheads something concrete to do besides raiding airfields. It would also reduce their driving time.
Giving the coastal airfields shore batteries was a good first step for a system like this.
Cheers Buzzbait
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I would agree with turning off the BARDAR if they added "Base # is under attack" broadcasts when the attackers got with in visual range of the field (<6k)
This way the attacker's can still achieve initial surprise, but can't totally wipe out a base with out any one knowing it's happening.
btw 1 lancaster with 14 1k bombs can still totaly destroy a base - even with the new base layouts - just can't be done in 1 pass.
Otherwise, keep BARDAR on for gameplay.
Nexus
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Originally posted by DmdNexus:
btw 1 lancaster with 14 1k bombs can still totaly destroy a base - even with the new base layouts - just can't be done in 1 pass.Nexus
Not a chance. For a small field:
3 FH X 3K = 9K
1 VH X 3K = 3K
2 BH X 4K = 8K
Total = 20K
Minimum of 3 passes (2 passes to get FHs and VH). 3 more passes to take out ack.
I agree that something needed to be done about being able to take out the FHs and VH in one pass and all hangars in two. That was terrible for gameplay.
As it now stands the smartest way of taking out a base is sending in 3 or 4 JABOs to down VH and ack and then vulch the hell out of the field until a goon or M3 rumbles in. Fun as hell and great for racking up those vulch kills.
Not particularly realistic, but as someone once wisely pointed out, the only real thing in AH is your $30.
Now it seems that buffs are only suitable for coordinated precision raids on large fields, or strategic stuff like Cities, factories, and HQs. Perhaps this is how it should be, even though I'm kinda sad to see the tactical relevance of the big bombers reduced so much.
Bomber dweebs now have to use coordination and teamwork to be of relevance, which is a great thing and definitely adds to the realism.
It's pretty tough have a large buff raid succeed when a big green dar pretty much gives away your intentions as soon as you're on the runway.
Unless you have at least 1 (disciplined) escort for each buff.
Clearly, 1.07 marks a return to AH's core capability: as a fighter sim, first and foremost.
Osage
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Osage, I agree with you in many parts. I did find a discrepancy in your lbs need for the Hangars. I have as of yet not encountered a BH that needs 4k. None the less, your argument stands. 18k is still out of reach for the Lancaster. It's max is 14k, as we all know.
I just wanted to point that out.
As of yet, we have had some very good points to both sides.
2Late4U said:
Problem is that without bar-dar, all it takes is a few people with nothing to do for an hour to shut down your country for hours on end BOY THAT SOUNDS LIKE FUN!
If that is a problem I might have to face, however unlikely I find it, I will, for the option of being able to conduct NOE raids in at least some semblance of realism.
I like the idea of an air-raid siren type of system. Eagler's version with dar detection at a preset range (10 miles or so) also seems viable, since it might simulate eyeball spotting, like he points out in a later post.
The system lasse suggests (having complete dar bars in twr) would not serve the purpose, I believe. At any given time, I would estimate up to 10% of the players are in the tower, and would be able to warn the flying players of the imminent danger.
Keep the comments coming. Good discussion so far.
I regret the comment about the B29, and hope people can avoid commenting singularly on that. I realize that we all have planes that we would like to see. I for one would dearly like to see early-war versions of the spits and zeroes, along with Mosqitoes, Warhawks and the rest. But that topic has been beaten to death, often and hard, and HTC seems to be working on it, i.e. the newly arriced P47-D11.
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2nd Lt. Hogni "Darling" Gylfason
332nd FG "Flying Mongrels"
143rd Pursuit Wing
(http://peterson.gm.is/img/darling_143.jpg)
[This message has been edited by darling (edited 05-28-2001).]
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Osage : Not a chance. For a small field:
3 FH X 3K = 9K
1 VH X 3K = 3K
2 BH X 4K = 8K
Total = 20K
I thought a FH needed only 2 x 1k and a bh 3 x 1k????
Greetings,
JG5FaBi.
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Both FH, BH and VH need 2.5k of bombs.
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Originally posted by Fastbikkel:
I thought a FH needed only 2 x 1k and a bh 3 x 1k????
Greetings,
JG5FaBi.
I always thought at least 3k for any sort of hangars.
I am a dumb bellybutton squeak.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I promise to do better next tour.
Osage.
P.S. Dang Dang dang Dang
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Pretty please, no darbar for NOE flights! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Cheers,
Pepe
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$.02 from a newbie to AH...
All sides employed some type of ground based spotting system for detection of air-raids. These systems consisted of both electronic and human intelligence. Radar was not the only thing relied on. If a NOE raid is coming in and one of the pilots "talks" using the text buffer, should the raid be identified? In RL, radio intercepts often gave away valuable info used intercept the raid. If one of the planes inadvertantly pops up above the radar threshold, how long does that counter stay up? While no pilot in AH may be looking at that particular sector at the time, the RL radar operations center whose job it is to scan 24/7 would surely pick it up and determine that a low level raid was happening. If the troops in the front line saw a bunch of bomb-laden P-47s or B-26s fly overhead at 200 ft, don't you think they would tell somebody?
The British confounded the Germans during the BoB with their ability to intercept the bombers. The LW was able to detect the inbound bomber streams and accurately concentrate forces to intercept (albeit sometimes on the out-bound leg due to the time needed to concentrate their scattered forces). Heck, the U.S. even detected the raid on Pearl Harbor with plenty of time to effectively intercept if only they had interpretted the radar correctly. Did the detectability of raids lead to NOE attacks on Berlin or even on targets anywhere but on the fringe of the Air Defense belt? Yes it did... at Ploetsi. While low-level attacks of airfields and other facilities took place throughout the war, they were rarely done with deep penetration NOE raids. More often, they were done with standard altitude approaches through skies where the allies had already effectively won air superiority.
My point? NOE as an available tactic any further into a country than the forward line of airfields is taking advantage of the things left out of the game. While I understand the desire for it, let's be honest about how effective it would be. The bar dars are probably the most accurate represnetation of the overall reporting systems available at the time. All we know is that there are enemy planes reported in sector and that they don't appear on radar. How else could that be interpreted? It is a raid below radar or radar isn't working! To make it more realistic, you could enlarge the sectors (giving more area to search) or create a lag between when a raid crosses a sector line and when it actually shows up. This would emulate the time between reporting of in-bound raids and the time required to interpret and disseminate the information. Totally removing any indication of a raid before it gets, let's say, to HQ where it destroys all radar is a bit far-fetched. Even when HQ is destroyed, enemy "dar-bars" should still appear over friendly territory. Again, there should now be some lag there, but the information would be available. Now, NOE flights over your own territory shouldn't show up until you cross the enemy lines...
Dang, guess I gave $.10 worth here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
HAMMER
[This message has been edited by xHaMmeRx (edited 05-28-2001).]
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I'm all for NOE being off Sector bars, especially when I'm in friendly territory! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) However, I don't think you should be able to NOE past several enemy bases to hit the HQ undetected. Maybe NOE works up to the sector past the front line bases, but then you're "spotted" and put on the sector bar. It'd probably be a bit hard on the coding, but it would add a fun factor to the game (NOE flying is fun!!) without ruining gameplay too much (NOE raids on HQ bypassing 5-6 fields would be bad for gameplay in general.)
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In an MA setting, I find that if one or two people can move undetected and disrupt the play of a large group, it is not enjoyable to the large group. In my opinion, no darbar for NOE flights rate right up with flying off the map.
NOE flight should be hard to do and they are possible now. They are exciting because if you are found it is sure death. I'm new to AH but not new to MA style play. You can use the darbar to deceive the enemy by flying near sector sector lines. Your radar dot is not visible and this means you could be anyplace in a 25 square mile area. If you travel in sectors with other aircraft or make it look like you are heading for another destination, it is easy to move undetected. If you have help from a few fighters making their presence known, you can also help hide your position. That's all the secrets I'm going to tell, but I'm sure if you are interested in NOE you can find more. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
This is what I like about AH map and darbar. When there are more than 2 or 3 in the sector you can not get an exact count from the darbar (at least I haven't figured this out). Dar dots do not have a tag. In AW I could easily count counters and radar contacts to find see if they were all accounted for. As an example, if we have a dead field and 3 nme counters in the sector, and 2 are fighters... guess what.. someone is below dar and it's time to start looking. It is much harder in AH to do this.
The ground war in AH is also developing and ground vehicles don't get any more closer to NOE. For gameplay NOE flights and ground vehicles should show up on darbar.
The ultimate experience are historic scenarios and special events. This is where map functions should be limited to achieve the event's intended outcome.
Gunner <CAF>
GunrCAF
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Hmm I don't see any reason why should NOE flights be shown on sector bars or as a dots. Even a flight of jabos must "pop up" before reaching the targer or else they are likely to become victims of ACK and when they pop up they will show up on radar anyway. So the other side would have a much shorter time to react but please correct me If Im wrong but I think that this is exactly the purpose of NOE attacks (and btw. I really enjoy NOE missions especialy in a B26 or Ju88 during the night (the night should last a bit longer)). Now you can flame me but I just said what I think... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://home.worldonline.cz/~cz088436/mbirdcz.jpg)
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MBirdCZ
CO of Sudden Death Squadron
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xHaM...sent you an e-mail, but it bounced. We live only a couple hours apart. Drop me an e-mail. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
jwg11@mlode.com
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I like Eagler's idea too.
The DAR, either dots or bar, would be much more realistic if they were active only when planes were in the proximity of the tower, or rather range of the radar. Perhaps bases could be fitted with long range and short range radar - long range to be out for a period of 30 minutes if bombed, short range 15 minutes. High alt bombers could then take out radar towers, which frankly should be a more strategic target than it is. Leave long range radar activation as it is (until tower is knocked out), and short range radar could be activated based on enemy altitude and proximity to field - 10k out show for those over 500ft, 3k for those under.
Just an idea, but I think the concept of redesigning strength bars and radar would add an element of excitement and strategy in capturing enemy bases.
(http://www.nethawk.org/misc/NetHawk.jpg)
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shut it off please
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Saw
[MASS]
Unterdweeboffizier 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://saintaw.cyberspace.be/saw_cour.jpg)
"Some of you guys wear dresses and bras and watch soaps in the afternoon, thats all I can figure.
Yeager
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 05-28-2001).]
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It would be nice to get some input from Hitech about this issue. I would find the reasoning behind the bars very interesting, both as refers to gameplay issues and also realism issues.
It seems as of yet that the majority of posters support some sort of disablement of the NOE dar. Or at least a change in the way it works.
Another question is how it should affect the vehicles approaching the fields. Should we try for a spotting range, say 5 miles?
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2nd Lt. Hogni "Darling" Gylfason
332nd FG "Flying Mongrels"
143rd Pursuit Wing
(http://peterson.gm.is/img/darling_143.jpg)
[This message has been edited by darling (edited 05-29-2001).]
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agree about under 500ft no radar bar, but remember most of the terrain is above 500ft (so you are totally safe from NOE at say a26 in uterus map, what is it 6.5k elevated?) You could balance the amount of fields that are prone to jabo attack when you create a map to make everyone happy.Put HQ high up,front line bases could be a mixture of alts to suit all tastes. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
the map that would hate NOE would be the islands map or the open water maps.On these the majority will probably fly NOE and will kill the jabo fun. This could cause a lot of frustration with people complaining you cant find a fight.
A way around this may be to have a 50 mile radar around fleets.This would make fleets highly valuable and sought after.And we could use them for something other than aimless wandering and as they respawn after 20 mins+time to get back to the front you would have time to use the 'gap in the fence' of radar made by downing a fleet. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
so the 500ft limit should be flexible in my opinion.In the islands map make it 150ft? in a map with rolling hills 500ft and mountainous 1000ft to allow fun canyon runs?
i dont know the answers obviously but i would like the same as ghosth, to be able to try it out and decide for myself. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hazed
9./JG54
p.s.vehicles Should be allowed to approach a base without setting off damn alarms at 5 miles! lol i can hardly hit anything other than hangers at 3.2 k and you want to be warned of me comeing at 5k+? bad idea i think.PLANES at 5 miles yes ok fair enough by that time you should be fast enough to take out things before you are swarmed but in a vehicle no way is that good for gameplay even though i agree they would be seen in 'Real life'.Im all for realism but this would stop me using GV's.
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-29-2001).]
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I like no dar below 500 ft, bar or dot. In order to do any real damage to the target your gonna need to get some altitude before hand. I would think that it would be 500 ft from the ground not sea level.
I also like the “base so-and-so is under attack” thing. Could get kind of irritating though. How many times would the message come out if a base were being attacked for an extended period of time?
Zippatuh
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zipputah im not sure 50ft from ground would be the way it would work.radar like any other wave was kind of line of sight but apparently this would be hard to programme into AH.50ft from terrain may also be very hard to implement, im not really sure, and be very surreal (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) you out of dar 40ft off mountain top?
I seem to remember posts about it being too difficult but i cant remember that good!. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
does anyone remember the posts?
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Hazed
9./JG54
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-29-2001).]
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-29-2001).]
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Originally posted by Zippatuh:
I also like the “base so-and-so is under attack” thing. Could get kind of irritating though. How many times would the message come out if a base were being attacked for an extended period of time?
Zippatuh
I don't think a text message or a "check six" type audio would work just for this reason. All we'd need is the bar/dots to pop up once the attack has been spotted/detected. Either via the base tower or if the attackers fly within eyeshot of a player.
would like to see this given a chance. Haven't heard many/any objections to the idea.
Eagler
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Hazed,
Yeah, I was thinking in a way that would be easy to change. No such luck probably. With most, or all, of the fields starting out at 1.5k, there wouldn’t be too many situations you could use NOE successfully. I also really do not want to step into the realism realm with dar since the argument can be, it is in no way real. That’s why I would have it 500 ft from ground level.
Eagler,
Exactly, your gonna have to pop up to drop ordinance anyway.
Zippatuh
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What about tanks, AA vehicles and half-tracks? Wouldn't this give them free reign to sneak (slowly admittedly) wherever they wanted to?
After all, no tank breaks the 500ft AGL altitude unless something has gone very, very wrong. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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I did a NOE flight last night. I took a B26 at night through 5 sectors. 3 sectors had enemy in. The base was being used and there was a small furball near the base. At one time I had radar contacts north and south of me. I lined up with both bomber hangers and I was undetected until the ack started firing. Being a dweeb (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) , I didn't have my bay doors open for the first hanger, but I destroyed the second hanger. BTW, this was a lot of fun (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I don't see any problem with the existing conditions, it's simple and it works. Turning off darbar will just encourage nightly 10 sector undetected NOE sneak attacks on HQ.
Gunner <CAF>
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originally posted by hazed...
agree about under 500ft no radar bar, but remember most of the terrain is above 500ft (so you are totally safe from NOE at say a26 in uterus map
I think this shows the importance of short-range (more powerful within the radius of its reach) radar. The closer a low-alt target gets to base it will be picked up by radar unless it is very low. It is not easy to approach high-alt fields at 100ft or less and expect to live through the barrage of AAA.
I think DAR should be changed, but I think we should have to learn the priviledge. Keep overall DAR as is, and give us a series of short and long range towers around airfields that can be temporarily limited (maybe 15 min for short and 30 min for long) for strategic NOE attacks.
As for the issue of ground vehicles, currently their spawn point is close enough to airfields that they can be visibly spotted by personnel, and therefore there must be a notification system for their proximity. It would be nice to see a second color (make strength bars half their width) for GV.
Great stuff here - all the ideas are good. Agreed, it would be great to hear from HiTech & company about the possibilities.
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I know its unlikely but if you was a true vehicle loon?, what if you drove all the way from one base to another and after hours of driving you get within 5 miles of your target and bam, the alarm warns the base.A single il2 takes off and in 2 minutes kills you.JUST BEFORE you are close enough to fire with any accuraccy at your target, you will be killed.
Would you ever drive one again alone? I doubt it.I know this is an exageration of the drive time but it is still a long drive to bases.I think if there was a 'base under fire' warning then maybe thats ok but still i have my concerns for vehicle enjoyment.
As it is, I find the panzer HE shells can barely kill 2 hangers.I dont think ive ever managed 2 hangers with 1 loadout though, with 10+ used to find range usually even a full load of HE ammo im hard pressed to hit 2 hangers.and a full load of he means death by any gv that spawns.
In the ostwind it is far less accurate for hanger shooting than it was and its not the same threat it was in 1.06 until its closer.If you ask me we should have AT guns stationed in a wide parimeter around a base, say 1 at each corner a mile or so out and no warnings but maybe a dar bar when the GV's get within shooting range of the AT gun.I could accept this because lets face it an airbase would have ground defences for miles around.
The AT guns should maybe not cover all approaches so if you 'take time' to skirt around a base from the spawn you can sneak into firing range of a base and slip past AT guns.If you drive straight for a base you are spotted.This rewards the thinking mans tanker whilst letting us know about the ones who just rush in.
theres so many ways to make this sort of thing fairer.We should all think it out a little, im sure HT can pick and choose ideas he likes and adapt them to how he wants
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Hazed
9./JG54
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-30-2001).]