Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: beet1e on March 02, 2004, 03:18:05 AM
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When I started in this game, there were only the original four or five maps in rotation. These had been designed at a time when peak arena attendance might have been what – 100-150? Nowadays at US Prime Time, there are (I am told) about 600 people online, or more. As the numbers grew it became clear that larger maps would be needed. Or so we were led to believe.
The first in the new generation of large maps was, IIRC, the AK Desert “Pizza” map. It was put up and stayed up. If it was reset, it would come back with all the field ownership made even again. It was up for weeks before, inevitably…
… the whining started. So things were changed. Some of the original maps were brought back into rotation…
…but then people noticed that it took much longer to reset pizza than any of the small maps, so a one week limit was placed on maps, and rotation took place every Friday, so Pizza could not stay up for longer than a week…
…and then I started noticing that for special events, the small maps were up even when they were not due to be up – the Indianapolis con, for example, which gave us an extra 3-4 days of small maps when we were supposed to have one of the large maps. Did we get an extra few days of the large map to make up for it? Am I voting Labour at the next election? …
…and then things were changed further. If a map was reset, instead of that same map coming back up so that each map would stay in rotation for a full week, when a large map was reset, it would be replaced by a small map…
… except, of course, when it’s Small Maps week anyway, in which case the resetting of a small map brings up… (you guessed it!) another small map...
…and still the whining continued, and so, as a concession, yet another week of small maps was added, making a 6-week cycle instead of a 5-week cycle, with small maps guaranteed to be up at least 33% of the time instead of 20% of the time…
…and then a bunch of players initiated a Sunday evening event to reset whatever map was in rotation. If that happened to be a large map (pizza/big isles) guess what came next? Got it in one! Yes, a small map, in this case Baltic. And because people have to be early to bed to be up for work in the week, that small map sticks around.
So it’s back to the old, old formula. 25% fuel porkage all along the front line, and a long green bardar in one sector with a green blob over one of the fields making it hard to tell which side the field belongs to, and a long red bardar in the next sector with a red blob over one of the fields.
Sorry, Skuzzy. I know you’re doing your best and all, but some things need to be said. You didn’t like it last time when I mounted this particular hobbyhorse, but I’ve kept it polite this time. Lock her up if you have to. But you're killing us with these small maps.
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I love the small maps!
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My Goodness!
Don't you know you're just supposed to take off "from one field back" and enjoy the climb? Two fields back if necessary, of course!
It's a very strategic concept in war-winning, you know.
:rofl
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the big maps still take longer to reset so we have more time on the big maps than any of the small maps. A lot of people hate the pizza map but it is up more than any small map... probly more than any two small maps combined. It has made a lot of people loose interest in AH.
lazs
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We all have different approaches to this game.
I can't see that the posters on this thread (and any post like it) will ever agree, because we value different aspects of the game.
My biggest gripe with the MA is not caused by a particular map or people's choices in planes. Although maps and planes can amplify or negate the problem... to a certain extent.
I used to think that it was good that half of our country upped to a single field. "C'mon bish, lets secure this capture!". This is teamwork, I thought. This is good, I thought.
This mentality seems to have infected the MA. Or maybe it has been so for a long time, but being new has clouded my vision.
I don't know what came first, the hordes avoiding eachother or the porking contest, but I feel they are connected.
I'm bored flying among a cloud of green icons, and I'm equally bored flying under a cloud of red. The outcome is too predictable for me to enjoy the ride.
I have no solution. I suspect it has gone too far to us to change things.
I used to search for good and bad maps, and I do prefer some maps to others, but I doubt that is the real issue. It's not the root to what some of us feels is a problem.
An example: Try taking a small group of planes to an untouched nmy field. Either the nmy will feel a sneak capture is underway and up masses to stop it, or they will sense that your group of planes is no threat to their real-estate and simply ignore you.
Oh, I'm oversimplifying, but u get the picture.
Things seem to be too much dependant on the real-estate game. I like the real-estate game, I think it adds flavour to the game.
I like sugar in my tea, but I don't pour 1 kilogram of sugar into my cup.
Many players have formed political parties that fight and agitate for their preferred style of playing. None of us are able to balance it out and give healthy suggestions that will benefit all.
But it sure is entertaining though, far better then RL politics.
Conclusion?
Sorry, I'm not snart enough.
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Maybe I have a "solution"...
I can't find an adequate english term for it.
But we need to change the collective mentality in the MA.
Wait, that wasn't a solution.
I only defined an unsurmountable problem.
Sorry, back to the drawing board.
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Jodgi sums it up really well
To me, a casual player who simply LOVES the simple fact that I can pretend to be a WWII fighter pilot it remains incomprehensible that people get so worked up about this game and that they DEMAND what they want instead of being pleased with what they got. You are all spoiled children an the fact that you are all grown up men makes it worse. Get a life yada yada yada.
I think that when I would meet most of the people here they all turn out te be rather harmless, shy nerds with limited social skills and a great interest in aviation :D You know, the kind I meet at airshows and in museums like Duxford.
However, it might be me, but rudeness here is the same to me as rudeness in real life. Don't you think that if you would behave irl as you do here some gentleman might ask you to step outside? I would...
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Originally posted by beet1e
...25% fuel porkage all along the front line, and a long green bardar in one sector with a green blob over one of the fields making it hard to tell which side the field belongs to, and a long red bardar in the next sector with a red blob over one of the fields...
That is the most important point.
A large portion of the current player base does not want to have fight another player. Or if forced into a situation where fighting is unavoidable, do it with overwhelming odds.
It is the same on the larger maps, just more spread out.
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Size doesnt matter.......................
Especially when the MA is so full of STAT potatos, too afraid to actually engage in a fight they might not win. Always making sure to fly in large groups of LA7s & spits with alt.
I always have to spend a few minutes trying to antipate where there will be an actual battle. Often once I actually find a battle, it is short lived, as1 side gains momentum with huge numbers of alted la7s, & the other side gets outnumbered & looks for an easier fight. YAWN!
Doesn't seem like all that long ago, people were looking for a FUN time flying a combat sim. Now it seems like its mostly alot of unpaid-professionals, fightin as score-potatos trying to impress some unknown score-pimp.
A_Clown
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Front line bases being porked is a much worse problem on, say, Big Isles than on any of the small maps because the second line bases are so far away.
I know it's not technically possible, but the solution I'd like to see is:
All maps in a single rotation.
When a reset happens, the next map in rotation goes up.
EXCEPT - if a map has been up for fewer than 36 hours, it goes up again after reset .
AND a map that has been up for 90 hours gets cycled out without a reset.
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I must say, even with large numbers, small maps are still the most fun from a fighter pilot's perspective. I HATE spending an hour looking for a fight only to have it evaporate when I get there on Big Isles or Pizza map. At least on small maps you are guarenteed to have a good persistant fight. I like the current rotation system, I think the time the small maps are up vs. the big maps is pretty reflective of the average player's preference. I also think the currrent rotation system promotes aggressive reset strategies as those who dislike the current map will band together in a concerted effort to reset it in order to get a map more to their liking.
I think HTC should hire Fester to re-design ALL of the large maps, he seems to have the best feel for the balance required to satisfy the most people most of the time, which is no easy feat.
Zazen
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I dont know beet1e, sounds almost ideal to me. We now all have to endure a map or map type we dont like on occation throughout the tour. It is much better than a certianty that terrains you dislike will be on for 1-3 weeks solid during a tour.
Then again, I guess I would be somewhat satisfied since I asked for something like this. (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103676)
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Originally posted by beet1e
Sorry, Skuzzy. I know you’re doing your best and all, but some things need to be said. You didn’t like it last time when I mounted this particular hobbyhorse, but I’ve kept it polite this time. Lock her up if you have to. But you're killing us with these small maps.
Ditto.
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Originally posted by hogenbor
Jodgi sums it up really well
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Don't you think that if you would behave irl as you do here some gentleman might ask you to step outside? I would...
Ahh those were the days and I sure do miss em. The days when you could step outside go toe to toe for a while then when done beating the crap out of one another go out and buy each other a beer
Problem nowadays is the one who gets the worst of it usually Sues.
And I dont like being Sued
:)
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Hogenbor, if you ever come to Arizona, let's step outside.
Can we skip straight to the beer part? :D
Oh, don't come in the summer or there is no chance I'll be stepping outside w/ you.
I love the small maps!
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I like the fight. I've had GREAT fights on ALL the maps. But with the smaller maps they happen more often.
So the preference for smaller maps is a givin. But Festers map is proof that it can be done with a larger map.
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zazen said it pretty well... the radar is pretty useless on the big maps with far fields if you want to find a fight... when you leave your base the dar is one thing but by the time you get there it is either gangbang or be ganbanged... if you are in a slow plane you will simply have a dozen guys chasing you home no matter what. A dozen guys who never really fight so are desperate to shoot something... A dozen guys who would be running if the fight was 1 on 1 or even 5 on 4. in their favor.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs
the big maps still take longer to reset so we have more time on the big maps than any of the small maps. A lot of people hate the pizza map but it is up more than any small map... probly more than any two small maps combined. It has made a lot of people loose interest in AH.
You say that a lot of people hate the pizza map. What is your basis for that judgment? The BBS? Hardly a source of data for an objective assessment, given that only a tiny minority of players visit this BBS. Still, objective polling is not your strongest suit. :p
As for the other things you said, you've chosen an interesting week to say them! Pizza was reset on Sunday night, since when we've had Baltic. Pizza does get whined about a lot, but who by, and what proportion of the player base do the whiners represent? I bet it's no more than about 2% at the most.
I'm personally very frustrated by the current map rotation, and the fact that has been made to lean more and more towards small maps. This week has been a classic example of a creeping process that has occurred over a period of months. I had a session upping from the CV to go to a field where there was 3-way battle going on. The knits were defending with Spits and LA7s; the Bish had a CV there and had LVTs on the beach. - was able to kill bucketloads of Spits and LA7s but at that early stage of the tour, the ranks have not become established and idiots were in command of the CV, turning and turning and turning... must have died about 6 idiot deaths taking off and landing, other than that it was an OK session...
... but whereas some may enjoy the shoot-em-up arcade gameplay from time to time, it gets old very very quickly. I logged on yesterday and saw Baltic was still up - and immediately logged off again. I did the same thing today. I am frustrated and bored. Pizza map has made a lot of people lose interest in AH you say? Hmmph, these small maps have sure seen my interest wane. :( And I'd be surprised if I was alone in that.
We used to be guaranteed a full week of each map, although the small maps were considered as one set for that purpose. Then we got another week of small maps added into the cycle.
And now with that mass reset exercise that seems to take place every Sunday, the rest of the week becomes a small map week. We've gone from having 20% of the time being allocated to the original small maps to a situation where almost 50% of the time is allocated to a small map. I used to think that the mass reset was to get rid of a large map because it was unpopular. But I've even seen Fester's original map despatched in this fashion.
Oh well, let's see what happens on Friday. Perhaps Fester's Oztralia/Lazsmania map will come up. If not it will be Big Isles. That will get reset to the SFMA small map on Sunday night which may hang around all week. Next will be Trinity, but then the week after that is small maps all week...
...Beam me up, Scotty... :(:mad:
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Oh , I see... one week each of the really bad maps like pizza and then one week for all the other small maps combined is considered fair and equal to you?
pizza is up more than any small map or even any two small maps. judging simply by players online at peak hours.... the small maps are a little more popular than the pizza abortion at the least.
I can't imagine how awful the pizza is late at night or during euro times.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
the big maps still take longer to reset so we have more time on the big maps than any of the small maps. A lot of people hate the pizza map but it is up more than any small map... probly more than any two small maps combined.
lazs
Complete nonsence.
If that were true then why as of last night have we had the same exact small map for the same exact amount of time (actually longer)as Pizza was up? And I havent checked but it may still be up for that matter. and minindodoo is typically up for at least 4 days at a time.
Even if it were true the big maps SHOULD take longer to reset simply because they are bigger maps.
Small maps are ok if all you want to do is force a large furball.
Problem is is not EVERYONE wants to be in a massive furball ALL the time. Let alone be forced into it.
Larger map like pizza do seem more geared to the folks that like smaller engagements. And the other aspects of the game. Furballs can still be found on the big maps easily enough even on Pizza but they are typically not of the massive scale you see on the small maps.
Problem is both points of view feel like they are being forced to play a style they do not like When one type of map is up or another. And each thinks the other are dweebs.
There is one solution either side can take, That being the other arenas. Problem is nobody wants to do that. Why?
Cause reguaredess of style prefrence everyone wants to be where the crowd is.
And that is understandable.
Only real solution I see is as I've said before.
To borrow a page from AW and set up a portion of each map that has fightertowns with unporkable or at least uncaptureable feilds.
Then both sides gets what they want and be where the crowd is.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Oh , I see... one week each of the really bad maps like pizza and then one week for all the other small maps combined is considered fair and equal to you?
pizza is up more than any small map or even any two small maps. judging simply by players online at peak hours.... the small maps are a little more popular than the pizza abortion at the least.
I can't imagine how awful the pizza is late at night or during euro times.
lazs
I agree I've noticed that too.
But I've also noticed the number drop is a relitively small fraction per country.
Maybe 10% tops though usually not that much even.
A week is too long for ANY map. i Love pizza map but by the end of a week even Im tired of it.
3 days is too small. Im thinking 4 days each map reguardless of size. I can tolerate any map for 4 days. Even Minindodoo.
THAT I think would be fair. And perhaps alternate Large base small base.
I wouldnt be at all dissagreeable to one other addition either.
that being daily resets on each map. Not to a different map but back to the same map.
Reguardless of which map you is your favorite. Its gotta be disheartening to log on and finally after a long wait see YOUR favorite map in rotation only to see you've been hoarded down to 3 or 4 bases already.
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The problem with pizza map and large maps in general is...There are more bases to defend along a line with either enemy country than there are players to defend them. So, what happens is, the majority of the people attack undefended bases rather than face significant opposition. Makes sense really, why devote resources to attack one defended base when there's 5 others, totally undefended, ripe for the picking? On a small map however, each base is precious as there are fewer of them, therefore people tend to defend them vehemently and in doing so create great, persistant fights.
On a side note, bases on large maps (Fester's map being an exception) tend to have not only many more bases, but the bases are also much farther apart (Big Isles for example...shudders). This has the effect of exacerbating the fuel porking problem. Noone wants to fly 2 or 3 sectors to defend a base that will probably be captured by the time they get there. So, the domino effect of this is usually a milkrun of undefended bases by a swarm of enemy who pre-emptively pork fuel to 25% along the way. On a small map there's usually 2 or 3 bases 1 sector or less from any other base making fuel porkage much less of a defensive problem and creating a situation conducive to an interesting and protracted fight.
So, from a fighter pilot's persepctive, you can see from my description why people tend to prefer the smaller maps. Simply put, they are just more fun per unit time. However, if you feel like rank whoring for a camp, you've got to LOVE pizza map, you can get as many base captures as you please, as most are totally undefended, and you can pork factory strats for points all day long because there is no chance of interception, almost as though you were playing offline by yourself . Pizza map is still insanely boring but makes for a really pretty rank ;)
Zazen
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Hey Zazen,
Gald to see youv'e joined the dark side and are making sense:D
WTG:aok
Your dead on above. Base distance is a critical factor determining the choices people have regarding the way they want to fly.
Fester has found a nice balance to accommodate everyone’s tastes.
I just wish those that can affect the maps would realize this and fix the maps where the choices are restricted.
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A lot of players have pointed out that just fixing the incredible imbalance between the effort to destroy fuel and the effort to resupply fuel would make things much better.
It's simply redikulousnessity that one jabo can cause fuel damage that it takes 7 C-47's to fix.
Address that imbalance and you'd probably see a lot more resupply missions which would....... add targets. ;)
More fun for everyone!
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Laz.......in case you haven't noticed.....Pizza has been on for 11 days THIS YEAR.....Mindanau has been for 19 days this year....in addition to all the other small maps.
Base distance on each map is just about equal except for Big Isles.....so distance to a fight should not be an issue. However, the big maps give players more options and targets rather than be forced to play along a 3 or 4 base front.
I personally prefer the big maps, Pizza, Festerma, and Trinity in that order and log whenever I see Mindanau come up.
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Excellent point, the only time I see anyone doing re-supply, its to HQ-
Of course- Buff perks are just 1 small step from being COMPLETELY worthless- maybe a new bomber--
A_Clown
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Originally posted by Docc
Base distance on each map is just about equal except for Big Isles.....so distance to a fight should not be an issue.
This is simply incorrect. I suspect, though, that if people read it often enough it will become "true".
HT specifies min and max distances between bases. Ask one of the map makers.
Some maps have the bases spaced near maximum and others don't. Further, it isn't just base spacing per se. For example, you could place a ton of VH's at close spacing in one area and it would make for extremely long flights between airfields. This is similar to the situation NB corrected in Trinity Mod 1A. He changed some VH's to AF's and the map was MUCH improved.
Last I heard, HT was advising map makers not to use max distance exclusively but to "shorten up" a bit to improve gameplay.
Field spacing makes huge differencs in gameplay. Especially considering the incredible imbalance between fuel distruction and resupply.
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I think the AK's should do another map to illustrate. ;)
Take the current pizza terrain and put just one airfield and one VH at the extreme edges of each of the three slices. Absolute maximum spacing. Then let that go into play for a week. Let's see who truly enjoys widely spaced fields and gangbangs. ;)
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Originally posted by Zazen13
The problem with pizza map and large maps in general is...There are more bases to defend along a line with either enemy country than there are players to defend them. So, what happens is, the majority of the people attack undefended bases rather than face significant opposition. Makes sense really, why devote resources to attack one defended base when there's 5 others, totally undefended, ripe for the picking? On a small map however, each base is precious as there are fewer of them, therefore people tend to defend them vehemently and in doing so create great, persistant fights.
Well, that's one point of view, and you're entitled to have it. But by forcing play to take place between fewer bases, we see the opposite problem - the long green bardar in one sector, and the long red one in the next sector.
It is apparent to me, after months/years of reading map whines, that it's no use trying to do what the furballers do, which is to try to convince folks that their favourite map design is the panacea to all gameplay woes, for all the reasons given.
But the very fact that these map debates have gone on for so long demonstrates one thing: Every map is going to be liked by some and disliked by others. NO map that is up at any time is going to be the favourite of everyone. I have learned to accept this.
So instead of trying to tweak existing maps, I say keep all the maps we've got and use all of them. All I ask is that the map rotation policy be balanced and fair.
Mr. Toad! Have you been at the 25-yo MacAllan again?! :D:cool:
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One last thing, adding new maps is fine. But, we're reaching a point of diminishing returns with regard to map additions. What we really need is the REMOVAL of "Unsuccessfull" maps. Only in this way will the better maps get enough play time to really enhance the month to month experience of the average customer. Look three years into the future, say we have 15 maps now, some even better than some of the good ones we have currently, we're still going to have to endure Pizza and Big Isles for up to 2 weeks a camp...Why? I don't know. Clinging to these monstrous dinosaurs for sentimental reasons in the face of obvious customer disdain is both irrational and bad business.
Zazen
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Originally posted by beet1e
that it's no use trying to do what the furballers do, which is to try to convince folks that their favourite map design is the panacea to all gameplay woes, for all the reasons given.
You may have been reading them for years, but it's clear you're not reading for content.
As many have pointed out to you repeated, we don't give a fig how you play. Just allow us the simple pleasures of the furball on all the maps.
The thrust of furballer commentary has been for maps that allow ALL the various styles of gameplay. You either continue to ignore that or fail to understand it.
AKD is perhaps the absolute worst for furballing. However, it wasn't necessarily always this way; the fuel damage/resupply equation hurt AKD and Big Isles more than the others. NB's redesign of Trinity helped it a lot in this regard as well.
So, really, once yet again, it's about having maps that allow for all styles of play. AKD and Big Isles really do not, given the imbalanced fuel destruction/resupply equation.
BTW, Beet......... your recent rash of fuel porking/logoff complaints jas broght many a smile. Keep it up. Ol' Shifty. ;)
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If you log off simply because a certain map is up, then you've got bigger problems with AH than just the map. I definitely prefer the smaller maps, but I can find something fun to do on any of the maps. The only things I dislike about the big maps is that it's sometimes cumbersome to look over the situation on the clipboard since they're so big, and that pizza is just damned ugly - but then, I've never been a big fan of desert schemes. I agree that 7 goons to bring fuel above 25% is overkill.
by Beet1e:
So instead of trying to tweak existing maps, I say keep all the maps we've got and use all of them. All I ask is that the map rotation policy be balanced and fair.
by Beet1e:
We've gone from having 20% of the time being allocated to the original small maps to a situation where almost 50% of the time is allocated to a small map.
So by your own word, small maps are up 50% of the time, which leaves the other 50% for the big maps. Sounds "balanced and fair" to me.
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Is It possible to just play and enjoy the game?
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Mr. Toad,
You still haven't grasped the fact that closer field spacing (to allow furballing) has a detrimental effect on other gameplay styles. I don't expect a furballer to understand that. Heck, half of them equate fuel porking to strat play. :rolleyes:
If having closely spaced fields was universally beneficial - to all players and all play styles - we would have that by now, on every map. But it isn't, and so we haven't.
I just checked the MA to see what's happening - the pic shows what I saw. Note the long green bardar and short red one in one sector, and the long red one and short green one in another sector not far away. Look at the green blob forming NW of 44. Look at the message popup window at the right hand side. I looked at all this and logged off. I've got more interesting things to do right now than to participate in this mess. Sleeping, for example.
Toodle-Pip! :)
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/ahss99.jpg)
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I was wondering,has anyone ever considered having a large map main arena,and a small map arena at the same time.That would give the map whiners a chance to whine about something else.This remedy is far too reasonable,and therefore it can't possibly be considered.The possiblities are too numerous to count.Just imagine,no cussing arena.No whining arena.Old mans arena,for me!Ah I could go on forever.
IronDog
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beet, the reason for the vocal dislike of the pizza map can be gleamed from your screenshot. In your instance the blobs are less dynamic, they ebb and flow, but the fields are close enough together that when the average joe logs on and wants to find a fight....that fighht will still be there when he arrives.
On pizza, the blobs are farther apart (and still avoiding each other), but when average joe sees a possible destination for a fight guess what? When he gets there, either nobody is there, there are all friendlies, or all enemies there.
I dont consider myself a 'furballer' but I also dispise flying around for 50 minutes trying to find a decent fight, while avoiding the roving hordes. The fuel issue isnt limited to the small maps either, and maps with long roving front lines with large field spacing just requre less porking to make the fuel endurance ineffective.
That said, I like the terrain on pizza, and depending what fields the front lines fall between, there can be some great fighting. But if I log on and and the front lines are not near those good spots, I log off. I consider it an equal waste of my time to fly around endlessly with little sadisfaction.
So I dont really see how these guys requests for mods can be that unreasonable, very few well thought out field placements would probably make a difference in manys opinion of that map.
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Beet you fail to grasp the fact that guys just interested in the fight don't mind everyone else doing what they like best.
They just don't want to have the furballing option eliminated. As has been repeatedly pointed out with the present imbalance between fuel destruction and resupply, the AKD/Big Isles maps just about eliminate the hopes for a good furball.
They just don't want to have the furballing option eliminated. As has been repeatedly pointed out with the present imbalance between fuel destruction and resupply, the AKD/Big Isles maps just about eliminate the hopes for a good furball.
They just don't want to have the furballing option eliminated. As has been repeatedly pointed out with the present imbalance between fuel destruction and resupply, the AKD/Big Isles maps just about eliminate the hopes for a good furball.
They just don't want to have the furballing option eliminated. As has been repeatedly pointed out with the present imbalance between fuel destruction and resupply, the AKD/Big Isles maps just about eliminate the hopes for a good furball.
They just don't want to have the furballing option eliminated. As has been repeatedly pointed out with the present imbalance between fuel destruction and resupply, the AKD/Big Isles maps just about eliminate the hopes for a good furball.
They just don't want to have the furballing option eliminated. As has been repeatedly pointed out with the present imbalance between fuel destruction and resupply, the AKD/Big Isles maps just about eliminate the hopes for a good furball.
They just don't want to have the furballing option eliminated. As has been repeatedly pointed out with the present imbalance between fuel destruction and resupply, the AKD/Big Isles maps just about eliminate the hopes for a good furball.
They just don't want to have the furballing option eliminated. As has been repeatedly pointed out with the present imbalance between fuel destruction and resupply, the AKD/Big Isles maps just about eliminate the hopes for a good furball.
They just don't want to have the furballing option eliminated. As has been repeatedly pointed out with the present imbalance between fuel destruction and resupply, the AKD/Big Isles maps just about eliminate the hopes for a good furball.
There, maybe it will sink in now.
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So, your saying that guys who like furballing refuse to let anyone else fly the way they want to? How do they feel about having the furballing option removed? Could you at least try to be more clear next time, sheesh!
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So, Toad what you are saying is :
They just don't want to have the furballing option eliminated. As has been repeatedly pointed out with the present imbalance between fuel destruction and resupply, the AKD/Big Isles maps just about eliminate the hopes for a good furball.
Is that right? :D
BTW I agree with ya
Sour
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Murdr - I accept your point of view. All of those green dots look like they're about to have fun - their kind of fun. And it has to be said that many folks in AH enjoy vulching, and enjoy steamrollering and enjoy suicide fuel porking. If not, they wouldn't do it. But that kind of "fun" wears thin after a very short time. On the pizza map the front line is spread across many bases. This at least makes for more evenly matched engagements, 1v1, 2v2 etc. What chance would I have of finding that on the map in the above screenshot? Erm... well none, actually. People are forced down the furball road and forced to contemplate the hordes/steamrollers and forced to deal with suicide duel porkage - assuming they don't log off, that being the choice I normally make in that situation. As soon as the friendly side starts to get the upper hand, the vulchers are drawn by that big green bardar. Of course, that same thing happens on pizza. The difference is that there are more choices on AKD/pizza. There will be another battle at the embryonic stage in another part of the map, or there will be a GV battle going on somewhere. But on the small maps it's furball or nothing. Do you get that, Mr. Toad?
It's furball or nothing! It's furball or nothing! It's furball or nothing! It's furball or nothing! It's furball or nothing! It's furball or nothing! It's furball or nothing! It's furball or nothing! It's furball or nothing! It's furball or nothing!
And I don't mind! I'm glad some people are happy, and clearly enjoying themselves on this small map. I am quite prepared to take the week off when those small maps are due to come up while those guys have their fun.
But what does irk me (and the reason for this thread) is when the week allocated to the pizza map becomes yet another small maps week. I'm not alone in enjoying the pizza map. See what WildThing said in my sig. And there are many others. This week we've been robbed, at the same time being told by the furball nannies that we should be enjoying ourselves on the small maps because they offer more choice. :rolleyes:
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there is no map or no field spacing that does not allow the timid sky accountants and talentless to cherry pick and hide from each other. The problem for the sky accountants is that when the fields are closer together then people are ignoring them and having fun...
the sky accountants can allways find a place with fuel and no activity to take off... they can hide from every decent fight they see all night on any map we have. The problem is that if the people in inferior planes aren't spred out then the sky accountants have to come down and take a chance to kill them... thier entrance and running away after their sissy little shot at the slower, older planes is dangerous.... not so many players stuck slow and far from home. That is why they don't want players to have any choice.
still... they can hide from each other all night long on any map we have.
lazs
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Lazs. That post above ^ looks like a C&P from any of your other threads. I'm convinced you've started drinking again! Mr Toad should make a pencil mark on the label of his Macallan bottle.
Well, you know what they say, Furballers. Be careful what you wish for - you might just get your wish. So for you there is good news and bad news: The pizza map is gone - but big isles is up in its place! :lol:lol
:rofl
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Originally posted by beet1e
This at least makes for more evenly matched engagements, 1v1, 2v2 etc. What chance would I have of finding that on the map in the above screenshot? Erm... well none, actually.
Why Beet, if that's what you are looking for, you should GO TO THE DA!
:rofl
Lordy, it's fun throwing your own words back at you!
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Originally posted by Toad
Why Beet, if that's what you are looking for, you should GO TO THE DA!
ROFL! Mr. Toad! :D
Actually, there was no need to go to the DA. I upped a P47D25 and joined some squaddies trying for a capture on A23 of the AKD/pizza map. It was a straight fight between our field and their field. No P51 interlopers from the field next door or anything of that sort. I brought bombs but had to dump them when a high zeke appeared from nowhere. Killed a 190 who, after some impressive evasives claimed to have been typing, then someone else got the zeke, I finished de-acking the field and provided cap till reinforcements arrived, at which point I returned to land my five kills.
Three things I noticed that were most unusual: I saw no enemy P51 or LA7, there were no interlopers once we had the field capped, and I was able to land without some LA7 opportunist vulching me from the field next door. Oh, and the fuel wasn't porked anywhere. ;) I almost forgot I was playing Aces High! :lol
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So Beet, no interlopers... in other words you were free to vulch, without interruption. You do it in the name of "capping" but you were just an opportunist yourself. *sniff* I smell a hypocrite.
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Ah, I understand perfectly.
You had a lot of fun capturing a base because you were essentially unopposed.
Congrats.
Sounds simply......... simply.............. simply............
um........ thrilling?
:rofl
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"Three things I noticed that were most unusual: I saw no enemy P51 or LA7, there were no interlopers once we had the field capped, and I was able to land without some LA7 opportunist vulching me from the field next door."
Heaven forbid someone come in an contest your storming/milkrunnining a base. I mean, once you eliminate the enemy in the immediate area, there should be no one allowed to fly from a nearby base and try to beat you back to where you came from ... no more calvary allowed in AH !!
Steve-o ... I smell something too !!!!
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Hey cmon,
Give beetle a break, you guys act like this is a combat flight sim. If I attack a base offline no one comes to bug me so I can see why he doesn't want anyone bugging him online.:D
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So let me get this straight. Beetle likes pizza map precisely BECAUSE bases are so many and so far apart? He can, at will, pork and vulch any base with little fear of retribution from another base due to the vast distances involved before his capture is completed? :lol Sounds like alot of milkrunning and vulching, but not much real fighting to me.
Zazen
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Muhahahahaha! :rofl
I see that eagle thing in so many avatars of those who replied. That's the "fly how you like, as long as you fly in the way that meets our approval" squad. :lol:lol:aok
No, no vulching involved. Just a 4v4 (or something like that). There was opposition, but we quashed it. And Steve - no interlopers meant that they had to fight it out right there - not up an LA7 (or P51D) rapid response squad from a field 2 minutes away. I can see how that might stick in the craw. :lol
Now let's see... the enemy has.... flashing map, siren, bardar, "base under attack", radar... is it my fault if they choose not to defend their base? I think not, but in the event, they did! But not well enough. I have the film. :D But I'm keeping it to myself for now.
AKD/Pizza: A most marvellous map. And one I know that HTC will want to keep in the cycle.
And now.... it's late.... time for bed, so...
Toodle-Pip :D:)
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I see that eagle thing in so many avatars of those who replied.
Its called a "Hat Trick":D
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Originally posted by mars01
Its called a "Hat Trick":D
you mean dweeb trick?
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you mean dweeb trick?
How could it be a dweeb trick you had nothing to so with it:rofl
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Beet, I couldn't get past the misspelled word to let the post soak in. You love to point out my errors...... find yours.
Ya, Baby!
OK, better now.
no interlopers meant that they had to fight it out right there - not up an LA7 (or P51D) rapid response squad from a field 2 minutes away. I can see how that might stick in the craw.
So, if a country wants to defend a particular field, they should only be able to do so by upping at said field? Coming from another field is somehow bad form?
Rapid response... now THAT(those two words) we agree on. A guy or two wants to get to a base in a hurry, in order to defend or intercept goons/attackers so they up an la7, d9, tiffie or pony.. they're interlopers? If they came over in SpitV's they'd be welcome?
Get your fork out Beet1e, if you accept it now, your portion of crow will be rather small.
:D :D
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We're getting off topic. This thread was not about maps, but map rotation. I know I'll never make some of you A.D.D. dolts accept the Pizza map, so I won't even try.
The issue some of you have with it is that the bases are "too far apart". And it's BS. After that fifth kill (an LA5 who had tried to grab alt and had then returned to fight us) I immediately returned to base. I slowed down and flew a left hand circuit, landed and exited plane. From last kill at the enemy base to exiting plane was 6 minutes and 20 seconds. I have the film, so don't argue with me...
...and you dolts are crying that the bases are too far apart? FFS! :rolleyes: So, if a country wants to defend a particular field, they should only be able to do so by upping at said field? Coming from another field is somehow bad form?
It's dweebery at best. I've seen it lots of times, but much less on the pizza map because many people don't have the attention span to fly for 6 minutes. You kill a guy in a Zeke or a P40 or some other nondescript plane, and he ups an LA7 (or P51) from the nearest base - not the base where he died - and comes in with a 10K alt advantage. I've seen your films, and I can see why you wouldn't want this option removed. :p
Zazen13! So let me get this straight. Beetle likes pizza map precisely BECAUSE bases are so many and so far apart? He can, at will, pork and vulch any base with little fear of retribution from another base due to the vast distances involved
Little fear of retribution? - it was an even contest. The bases had one thing in common - they were both the same distance apart - lol! But what's this about "vast distances"? 6 minutes flying time? Oh puhleeeze :rolleyes::rolleyes: <- (one was not enough) Geez, the current bout of A.D.D. it's worse than I thought... :eek: As a matter of fact, I did get killed on the second sortie: I had flown to the base heavy (2x1000 on a jug makes for a VERY heavy package) and when I got there, the aerial support was gone. A higher Spit was waiting for me, so I made a divebombing run on the VH and got away from him, but a much higher MOSS chased me down. Fair enough. They had at least 5 guys aware of the situation at A23, and they were up defending it. There were about 6 rooks involved in the skirmish. Again, I have film, so don't argue with me.
So, you furball wallies: Is it the fault of the Pizza map that those guys gave up the defence of A23? Erm... no. Sounds like alot of milkrunning and vulching, but not much real fighting to me.
I will paraphrase that: Sounds like an even contest, but not much of an arcade game to me. :p
I can't get over it - 6 minutes flying time is equated to a "vast distance". :rofl
And finally, Steve. Oh please point out my spelling mistakes... but you'd better hold on to that fork. You might be needing it yourself. :lol
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I've seen your films, and I can see why you wouldn't want this option removed.
Beet1e, are you sure you want this in here? I sent you one film. One. That film started off w/ me and one other guy over an enemy base and not very high. It then moved to a friendly base w/ enemy cons higher than me. It then moved to me on the deck w/ an La7 running me down, which I killed 1v1. It then moved to me fighting a coalt but much faster and very well piloted(Geist) 110 w/ me down to 2 guns and very low on fuel. I killed him, 1v1.
Again, are you sure you wanted to say the above?
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There's a reason that even Tomato calls him "Ol' Shifty"
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Originally posted by Steve
Beet1e, are you sure you want this in here?
Why? Would you rather move to the O Club while we talk about the longevity of cats? :D:lol You sent me various film files, but I think you did say that each was a different excerpt from a single film file. Now get back in your P51 and go and vulch the vulchers! You know they'll be down at 3K, so you should be safe at 15K. ;):aok BTW, did you say something about a spelling mistake?
Mr. Toad, you posted at 8:15 - way past your toodle-pip time! LOL - your remark about Tomato! Erm... I'm saying nothing... except... she's dying to meet you! We both are! ;)
Slapshot! Well all of you who posted recently, actually. It was as I said it was - an even contest. As the following screenshot shows there was me - heavy - and a rook 262 (don't know what he was doing but he wasn't helping me) and four Bish up. It was the MOSS that got me. He was about 80mph faster than me. Of course, all four Bish just had to chase me down... I knew I had no chance given that the MOSS could catch me. But by dragging them all to the deck and away from the base, I knew there would be no-one around the base as my squaddies arrived back. I guess that's the fault of the pizza map too, huh? :rolleyes: And the fault of the pizza map that all four should chase me, like a junior school soccer match in which the whole team goes after the ball? :lol
So... drop those BS claims that it was a milk run, or that the base was "undefended" or that the Bish "didn't know" that their base was under attack. For whatever reason, their defence of A23 dried up. I guess they were all simply pissed off that they couldn't just up an LA7 at another field two minutes away. I had to leave shortly afterwards so didn't see the final outcome...
... But to say it was a milkrun just because the defence decided to bugger off smacks of the Arsenal offside trap - calling the offence offside because the defence has decided to pull back abruptly.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/p47pic3.jpg)
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Originally posted by Toad
There's a reason that even Tomato calls him "Ol' Shifty"
Actually, he has a rather long name, but you're right, part of if contains the phrase "smoke and mirrors". :D:lol
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You got shot down on the second sortie, correct? After the milkrun where you vulched 5?
Tomato, I'm sure it is quite a long name; things are so much more formal over there. After all, we usually just say "BS-er" but I'd guess it's "Bovine Excrement Slinging Specialist" over there, right?
;)
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Maybe the only way to tell which maps the majority of customers likes or dislikes would be to pose a pop-up question for people to answer upon logging onto each map. Maybe only weigh replies from accounts at least 3 or 4 months old and then re-poll every 3 or 4 months.
I really don't have a gripe about any one map that what cause me to constantly post here and complain about it. Seems like a few of the same poeple are the one's constantly posting about maps they disslike. It would be very interesting to see an actual customer poll on the issue.
If I had to vote one map down, it would probably be the Pizza just for the reason of it being too easy for milk-runners ( me included at times) to capture undefended bases and bomb undefended strat, even during US prime-time.
That being said, I still enjoy playing when the Pizza is on, but just not as much as some other maps.
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We've got a lot of maps now. That wasn't the case when we went to the intial "week of one map" rotation. Now we've got a "week with a big and small map pair rotating".
The initial crying to get maps to stay up longer when each reset brought a new map got us clubbed with the "week" stick. I think we're being left to stew in our own juice.
Maybe we need to politely request that each map be up for just two or three days and then rotate to the next. Put a small map following a large map each time or something. Two days of anything wouldn't be too bad.
Let's see we have AKD, Trinity, Big Isles, FesterMA and soon OzKansas (I hope) in the big department. Then there's Little Isles, Baltic, Mindy and Lake U.
In no particular order, why not two days each of a rotation like this:
AKD-Mindy-FesterMA-Little Isles-Trinity-Lake U-OzKansas-Baltic
That would take 16 days, 32 days to run through twice. You'd see each map roughly 4 days a month.
Thoughts?
Or, we could ask that a pop-up poll be taken on which maps to remove and take out one or two.
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Originally posted by Toad
AKD-Mindy-FesterMA-Little Isles-Trinity-Lake U-OzKansas-Baltic
That would take 16 days, 32 days to run through twice. You'd see each map roughly 4 days a month.
Thoughts?
Or, we could ask that a pop-up poll be taken on which maps to remove and take out one or two.
If OzKansas gets approved, I say take Pizza up for a vote along with one of the small maps. Or take a poll on all maps, but only poll as each map is current and then ask to rate the map from 1-5 or something. After all the maps are rated, take the lowest one or two out of rotation.
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I brought up the voting for maps idea with Skuzzy one day in live chat. To say the least he was NOT receptive to the idea. The message I got from that disussion was that HTC is NOT a democracy and we'll get the maps they want us to have not the maps we want us to have. The player base only spends 800,000 hours a month and 15 bucks a head playing the game what do we know? Kind of reminds me of the mistakes Kesmai made with AW where four or five guys who rarely ever even played the game decided what's best for the 2 or 3 thousand that played 10 hours a week+ for years on end....But, that's another story.
The simple fact is, why go through the trouble of voting, HTC already knows the vast majority dislike Pizza map and to a very slightly lesser degree Big Isles, they don't need to devise an online poll because they already know the result, but they'll never remove them anyway, someone has already made that decision.
I still maintain that making more maps in addition to the bad ones already present is only a bandaid fix. Until the "poor" maps are removed the dissatisfaction factor will remain high as we are still stuck with the 'poor' maps a healthy fraction of the time regardless of how many much better maps are brought into the rotation.
Zazen
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I can do ANY map for three days. Even Big Isles which has become my least favorite.
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The story starts out as a 4 v 4 fight and they were all killed and ...
"I finished de-acking the field and provided cap till reinforcements arrived, at which point I returned to land my five kills."
Yet you then claim to have landed 5 kills and did not vulch. The math does not add up my friend.
"But not well enough. I have the film."
"I have the film, so don't argue with me..."
Thats a given beet ... we ALL know you have the film. Thats like reporting a HIGH P51 or a HIGH 190/109 in the area ... its a given ... :D
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Now get back in your P51 and go and vulch the vulchers! You know they'll be down at 3K, so you should be safe at 15K. BTW, did you say something about a spelling mistake?
Beet1e, you're a real piece of work. You're dishonest, plain and simple. You are completely misrepresenting the film and it's contents. You are despicable.
I said a couple of things in the post you are referring to, but after I read your comment about the film you saw I lost all interest in discussing anything with you. You are blatantly being untruthful about that film. Debating is one thing, being a dishonest POS is another. You sicken me.
Everyone: Nowhere in this film do I kill an enemy vulcher. Most of my kills come near an enemy base. Grizz and I are at the base (ack up) at around 8k to start. Granted we have alt advantage but we are outnumbered. I do kill a couple of attackers as I work my way back to my base, but none are vulching. The last 2 are against opponents 1v1 where I am either at a disadvantage (first fight)or CoE(second fight).
In short, Beet1e is alluding to things that he's never seen in a film of mine; he's a liar.
If anyone would like to see this film I'll happily send it to them.
Note: This film is of a 10 kill run but other than Geists wonderful 110 flying the film is rather...unremarkable. Beet1e requested a film from me and this is the first flight I took after reading his Email.
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Originally posted by tomato
Actually, he has a rather long name, but you're right, part of if contains the phrase "smoke and mirrors". :D:lol
ROFL! Just to think, MY computer equipment was used to post that message! - my network card, my ADSL modem/phone line. ;)
Mr. Toad. :) No, not all vulches. The base itself was at about 4.5K. My kills were 1) 190 @ 10.0K; 2) Zeke @ 7.3K. Then, as I continued de-acking, an F6F appeared in front of me about 1 second after I killed an ack. I saw no reason not to shoot it so 3) F6F - not much above the deck, admittedly. 4) B26 - I never went near it, it just blew up on the runway - prox kill. Originally, I thought it was the Spit I had pinged earlier, but I got an assist for that. 5) LA5 - near the deck but not really a vulch as it had already been away from the field and had come back to give my CO a hard time (he was low in a 190) and I saw no reason not to kill it so 5) LA5, not far from deck but he was doing 240mph at the time - not t/o vulch.
NUKE! "Maybe the only way to tell which maps the majority of customers likes or dislikes would be to pose a pop-up question for people to answer upon logging onto each map. Maybe only weigh replies from accounts at least 3 or 4 months old and then re-poll every 3 or 4 months." That's the best thing I've ever seen you post. Beats me why you've pretended to be a dork in the past. ;) This post shows you to be of sound mind indeed! :aok
Zazen - The BBS is no indicator of overall opinion. Urchin recently suggested that BBS readership of the AH total subscribership was about 1%. And I would not dispute his assessment.
Slapshot - you're quite right. I made a mistake. It wasn't 4v4. It was 2v4. 2 rooks (us) v. 4 bish (them) were in the area and showing on the film panel. That was the count as I got that first kill - see the picture.
Steve, STEVE, STEVE!!! I was taking the piss, you silly old sausage! I forgot the ;) thingo. I'm sorry I've ended up hurting your feelings. That was NOT what I intended. Sorry I've left you languishing all day - I've been out...
pic for slapshot
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/p47pic4.jpg)
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Some of the small maps are fun. Much better than Big Isles...i forgot how much i hated it til it came up.:(
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Originally posted by Zazen13
The simple fact is, why go through the trouble of voting, HTC already knows the vast majority dislike Pizza map and to a very slightly lesser degree Big Isles, they don't need to devise an online poll because they already know the result, but they'll never remove them anyway, someone has already made that decision.
Lol, they know this? How do they know this? Because of the whiners on the BBS?
The online numbers present during any given rotation of AKDessert indicate a completely different picture than the one you paint.
Facts are obvious. It has been stated that HTC isn't going to play democracy, so you are wasting your time whining.
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Originally posted by Toad
Tomato, I'm sure it is quite a long name; things are so much more formal over there. After all, we usually just say "BS-er" but I'd guess it's "Bovine Excrement Slinging Specialist" over there, right?
;)
I thought PC euphemisms were an American thing. (e.g., maid = domestic hygiene specialist).
However, beet1e does attract a number of labels. ;):lol
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Steve, STEVE, STEVE!!! I was taking the piss, you silly old sausage! I forgot the thingo. I'm sorry I've ended up hurting your feelings. That was NOT what I intended. Sorry I've left you languishing all day - I've been out...
As silly as it sounds... you did hurt my feelings.
Are you sure I just didn't hit your bait so hard that I got the rod tip in my eye?
You could be that diabolical. :eek:
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Originally posted by MetaTron
Lol, they know this? How do they know this? Because of the whiners on the BBS?
The online numbers present during any given rotation of AKDessert indicate a completely different picture than the one you paint.
Facts are obvious. It has been stated that HTC isn't going to play democracy, so you are wasting your time whining.
Just because people still play when AKD is up doesn't mean they like the map, it just means they have no choice other than a sleepy CT....
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Just because people still play when AKD is up doesn't mean they like the map, it just means tehy have no choice other than a sleep CT....
Even funnier. Your comment can be countered with "just because whiners gripe about AKDessert on the BBS doesn't mean you can't have fun on the map."
It's a matter of perspective. Anymore it's a matter of instant gratification with gamers, and sometimes you just have to make things happen yourself. To the "glass half full" (or is it half empty?) crowd apparently pizza sucks, but for the rest it's all good.
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Exit polls at voting booths sample a very small percentage of the total voting population yet tend to be very accurate, w/ in a few points. With that in mind, if the majority of people who post in here dislike the pizza map, there is a very good chance this is reflected in the whole of the MA population as well.
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Originally posted by Steve
Exit polls at voting booths sample a very small percentage of the total voting population yet tend to be very accurate, w/ in a few points. With that in mind, if the majority of people who post in here dislike the pizza map, there is a very good chance this is reflected in the whole of the MA population as well.
Yup, I used to be a supervisor of a customer service department for a large corporation, the rule of thumb is...For every customer that takes the time to contact the company in writing or other correspondence about a grievance there are ten others equally or more dissatisfied who just didn't bother to take the time to do so.
Zazen
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The last time I was on AKDessert map there were over six-hundred people also online. The number one complaint isn't the map itself or the gameplay on the map, but the colors and textures.
On the BBS you hear whines about numbers and how people can't find a fight. Two different views completely when comparing online and BBS posts.
As a Bishop all I have to do is mount a defense against rooks and I will see overwhelming numbers. Against knights its a little different, as you have to figure out where their next sneak attack will be. Either way, if it's a fight you want then as a Bishop it isn't hard to find one. That's my take on it anyway. It could be different for everyone I suppose, perspective being purely subjective.
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In my opinion Pizza is my lest favorite map. But some seem to like it, so they are due thier time to play on it.
I do think this map could be improved to the point it would not be nearly so hated by some.
First if it was hit by the magic shrinking ray, and tightened up just a little. Nothing radical, but say 20%?
Next put it in the super duper Map squishing machine, Keep the canyons and mountains, but level it out some. Reduce it by say 40%. (arent some fields at 3x the height of Denver?)
Run it thru the feild converter and change some of the GV bases to Airfields, not all but say 30% of them.
Lastly fire up the tanker planes and give it a bit of paint job, Im not sure what color would be best, but something more popular.
I think you could keep alot of the flavor of the map, yet improve its popularity at the same time. It was the first large map attempt, I think alot has been learned since it was created. With a little effort, it could be improved.
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Beet.I've never bothered to watch a film posted on the BBS but I must admit. I'd like to watch this particular one of yours. The first part, where you land the five. Feats of derring-do....... maybe it's time for me to watch how you nailed all those enemies from your severe disadvantage. ;)
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Yup, I used to be a supervisor of a customer service department for a large corporation, the rule of thumb is...For every customer that takes the time to contact the company in writing or other correspondence about a grievance there are ten others equally or more dissatisfied who just didn't bother to take the time to do so.
Zazen
And what was the ratio Zazen, for when someone writes a letter complimenting the service they received? I don't mind pizza at all, but haven't posted in these threads defending it. Those that hate something are normally the most agressive.
I personally hate the small maps and normally just log when I see them. I enjoy playing the whole planeset, accomplishing goals, and getting that rare 1v1 fight that goes to the deck with each guy gritting it out. THAT is what the game is about for me, i have no interest in vulching, or killing 1 plane with 4 friends, or getting killed by 5 enemies. If i am forced to fly against silly la7's, nikis, and spits, then at least the large maps let me engage them 1v1 more often.
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Steve/Zazen. You seem to be in accord that a random sampling of the players (this BBS for example) provides a fair assessment of the overall view of the total subscribership. Zazen seems to be suggesting a 10% sample in his scenario...
... so how fair do you think it would be if, in the forthcoming US Presidential election, the government said that they were going to economise on the voting procedure. Only 10% of the electorate would be polled. You are eligible to vote only if the house number or building number where you live ends in a 5. That would be every tenth building or every tenth house. From what you've said in your posts here, that would be a fair and accurate assessment of the electorate as a whole. How would you like that?
Grimm. I don't want to see Pizza squished or squashed. I don't suppose there are plans to space out any of the fields on the small maps, so why should the larger maps like pizza be squashed up? I don't want to see the altitudes reduced either. I love the high alt fights in the Jug, and getting the LA7s out of their comfort zone. I love even more the fact that when a base is put under pressure, the opposition does not have the dweeb option of upping EasyMode™ planes (sorry Steve) from the next base to repel the attack. Things are evenly matched. The fights can take place between bases instead of at bases. MiniD was right about that in an earlier post. Already in this thread, we've had 6 minutes flying time equated to a "vast distance", which suggests that some folks want the nearest base to be much nearer - maybe 2 minutes away. And we all know what that leads to. Wall to wall LA7/Spit/N1K and furball-furball-furball.
I'm in agreement with MetaTron. It seems that too many people want things handed to them on a plate instead of making things happen themselves. People have whined about the colours and textures on Pizza. It's a desert terrain FFS! What do they expect - purple sand and orange cactus? I myself did have difficulty spotting the red/enemy icons, but I did not whine. I fixed the problem myself by changing the con icon colour to the girly pink that you see in my screesnshots. Works well on all maps.
My whole point in this thread is that whereas furballing is flightsim utopia for some, it bores the crap out of others. I'm not trying to convert anyone to pizza, just as some of us will never be interested in nonstop furballing.
Accept the maps as they are. If there's a map up that I don't like, I'll do something else that week - go to the CT for example, or play Scrabble with Tomato (she nearly always wins!). Rather than complain about a map, design your own. All I ask is that the map rotation be balanced and fair.
Like WildThing says in my sig., Pizza is the perfect map... and if it's perfect, it cannot be improved. ;):)
Mr. Toad! I have the film, and will use individual screenshots from it to substantiate anything I've said in this thread. Funny how the one time I do not post a film is the one time I'm asked to post one. As Margaret Thatcher once said: "It's a funny old world". :lol
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Originally posted by beet1e
Funny how the one time I do not post a film is the one time I'm asked to post one.
Oh Beet I think it's pretty simple. You've never been one to hold back on tooting your own horn with the films of your great victories.
I think you stuck your foot in it with this one though. Given your propensity for posting films to prove your points, the sudden reluctance to display your glory speaks volumes.
I think most of us can read between the lines and understand why you don't want anyone to see it. After you made such a big deal about your wonderful sortie with "no interlopers" and the "lack of an "LA7 opportunist vulching me from the field next door", it would seem that you had a lovely, relative unopposed flight where you most likely had the advantage at all times.
Am I wrong? Go ahead and post the whole film. I'd love to see it.
I suspect though that you won't because it will support Laz' view of sky accountants and folks that generally are afraid to fight from a disadvantage or even on equal terms.
Don't tell me I'm wrong; show me I'm wrong. Post the film.
And remember these immortal words: "An La-7 on your six is better than no La-7 at all!"
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Originally posted by Toad
Oh Beet I think it's pretty simple. You've never been one to hold back on tooting your own horn with the films of your great victories.
I think you stuck your foot in it with this one though. Given your propensity for posting films to prove your points, the sudden reluctance to display your glory speaks volumes.
I think most of us can read between the lines and understand why you don't want anyone to see it. After you made such a big deal about your wonderful sortie with "no interlopers" and the "lack of an "LA7 opportunist vulching me from the field next door", it would seem that you had a lovely, relative unopposed flight where you most likely had the advantage at all times.
Am I wrong? Go ahead and post the whole film. I'd love to see it.
I suspect though that you won't because it will support Laz' view of sky accountants and folks that generally are afraid to fight from a disadvantage or even on equal terms.
Don't tell me I'm wrong; show me I'm wrong. Post the film.
And remember these immortal words: "An La-7 on your six is better than no La-7 at all!"
...none of which has ANYTHING to do with the topic being debated. This is a thread about map rotation. But here you are, yapping about horn tooting, sky accountants, LA7s, advantages... you forgot to mention personal stats! Guess you're leaving that to Lazs. :lol
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Originally posted by Yorba
And what was the ratio Zazen, for when someone writes a letter complimenting the service they received? I don't mind pizza at all, but haven't posted in these threads defending it. Those that hate something are normally the most agressive.
I personally hate the small maps and normally just log when I see them. I enjoy playing the whole planeset, accomplishing goals, and getting that rare 1v1 fight that goes to the deck with each guy gritting it out. THAT is what the game is about for me, i have no interest in vulching, or killing 1 plane with 4 friends, or getting killed by 5 enemies. If i am forced to fly against silly la7's, nikis, and spits, then at least the large maps let me engage them 1v1 more often.
It is very rare for a satisfied customer to communicate that satisfaction. I think it happened once while I was working for that company, we had the letter framed and put in the lobby of our downtown office :)
Zazen
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admit it beetle... it's only you and 8 other guys in the known universe who can stand the pizza map.
lazs
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Originally posted by beet1e
Grimm. I don't want to see Pizza squished or squashed. I don't suppose there are plans to space out any of the fields on the small maps, so why should the larger maps like pizza be squashed up?
Why?, As I attempted to stated, because it might appeal to a larger group of players. I did not suggest extremes, just some adjustments to make it a better map overall.
As for the Small maps, I like them.
My personal wish would be for the rotation to have each map up for a week, regardless of resets. That even includes your dreaded pizza map. fair time for all types of play.
Presently my map preferences go as follows. Baltic, Trinity, FesterMA, ....(The Rest).... Big Isles, Pizza. I enjoy most all types of play.
If I have issue with anything in AH, it would be the ease of fuel porkage and the difficulity with resupply.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
The simple fact is, why go through the trouble of voting, HTC already knows the vast majority dislike Pizza map and to a very slightly lesser degree Big Isles, they don't need to devise an online poll because they already know the result, but they'll never remove them anyway, someone has already made that decision.
I still maintain that making more maps in addition to the bad ones already present is only a bandaid fix. Until the "poor" maps are removed the dissatisfaction factor will remain high as we are still stuck with the 'poor' maps a healthy fraction of the time regardless of how many much better maps are brought into the rotation.
Zazen
What "Vast Majority" would that be?
Fact of the matter the majority of people (myself not included)
Do not complain about any of the maps and just shut up and play.
What we see is the same 20-30 people complaining over and over and over thus making it seem like there are more then there really are. And I would hardly call 20,30,40 or even 50 a vast majority.
Cant go by the message boards either cause only a very small fraction ever post here probably cause they are either too busy playing or have seen what debates here usually degrade to and think better of it.
Could be the Vast majority of the people you know.
But if we went by that kind of count. The vast majority of the people I know dont like the small maps.
LOL If we got rid of all the maps that what each of us call a "Vast majority" do not like we wouldnt be playing at all.
So I can understand why HTC has taken the position it/he has.
I would agree on a couple points though.
On Pizza a couple alterations could be made to make it more suitable for everyone.
Repositioning of a few feilds, swapping some GV only feilds for airfeilds. How does the thought of furballing in a canyon grab ya?
That would certainly add a new demention now wouldnt it.LOL
Another is color. While the current color doesnt bother me I can understand how if might be a problem for others.
So how bout changing it from Desert to Snow?
We are in my opinion SORELY lacking for a winter terrain and the pizza features I think would suit this nicely.
Also each country should start with its own land mass and a few islands. I will never understand the logic behind the positioning of each country at the start which if your in the south looks like a giant noodle even to my 7 year old daughter. (and YES she has noticed and asked why it looks like that)
What did the person think when they layed (no pun intended) this out, that we wouldnt fight?
With reguards to big Isles. I wholeheartedly agree the feilds are too far apart.
also there is a dire need for some GV spawn point alterations.
Some need to be added. and others need to be moved.
there is one I was at yesterday in the southeast that spawns GVs into the middle of the water. in an LTV it took nearly an hour to get to the enemy base.
Hardly acceptable for game play.
There ar a few other GV bases that seem to have no real use whatsoever other then to be there.
But the main thing is the base spacing.
Simply too far.
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Originally posted by lazs2
admit it beetle... it's only you and 8 other guys in the known universe who can stand the pizza map.
We won't know that without a poll. A proper popup poll, not a Lazs-style subliminal poll. ;) But if what you say is true, 5 of those guys were online Friday. I took screenshots of what people were saying about the pizza map and large maps in general. Funny how 5 of those 8 guys just happened to be in the same part of the known universe at the same time! :lol
Drediock - they had a snow terrain up in the CT not long ago. It was damned difficult to see anything!
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Originally posted by beet1e
We won't know that without a poll. A proper popup poll, not a Lazs-style subliminal poll. ;) But if what you say is true, 5 of those guys were online Friday. I took screenshots of what people were saying about the pizza map and large maps in general. Funny how 5 of those 8 guys just happened to be in the same part of the known universe at the same time! :lol
Drediock - they had a snow terrain up in the CT not long ago. It was damned difficult to see anything!
Really? Hmm Ill haveta check it out again next time its around.
I remember playing in a winter terrain once a while back when the MA was down for one reason or another.
I remember not having any probs at all seeing anything. but then again like I said I dont have problems seeing anything in desert either.
Actually I have a harder time seeing the enemy in the greenish terrains then anywhere else.
I just take it for what it is figuring the reason planes were painted the way they were was to make them harder to see by the enemy. So it just adds to the realism.
Otherwise why dont we just have all the planes painted Barbie Pink?
Though all spits should be painted that color anyway:D
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I'll just assume that I was correct in the type of... fight... it was.
;)
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Originally posted by Toad
I'll just assume that I was correct in the type of... fight... it was.
;)
You assume a lot, and you've assumed wrongly in the past. But on this occasion, you can think what you like, Old Bufo Marinus. What happened in those sorties is for me to know and for you to try to figure out. The "type of fight" was in no way relevant to this thread which, just to reiterate, is about map rotation. But, as always, when a debate is not going the way you want it to go, you try to degrade it into a pissing contest about "flying styles" and whether someone had "an advantage" or not. You base your whole TFTT thesis on the false premise that every plane can be flown like a Spit V, and that because you favour turnfights at 2K that everyone else must fly like that too, or else be proclaimed a dweeb. I've seen your career stats for the P47 - 7 kills and 6 deaths in a P47D30. Looks like you gave up on it in short order. Maybe you were trying to turnfight it in one of your TAS style weed-wacking fights? Yeah, well I can see why you didn't last long with the P47 if you thought that was the right way to fly it. :lol
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Originally posted by beet1e
Yeah, well I can see why you didn't last long with the P47 if you thought that was the right way to fly it. :lol
Ammo's doin pretty well flying a Jug that way. He be doin the weeds. I always see him on the way in shortly before I meet my maker. I've done alot of that lately.
It can be done consistantly, it's just not easy.
Easy being the operative word.
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Originally posted by nopoop
Ammo's doin pretty well flying a Jug that way. He be doin the weeds. I always see him on the way in shortly before I meet my maker. I've done alot of that lately.
It can be done consistantly, it's just not easy.
Easy being the operative word.
Ammo's doing it in the D11 variant, not the D25. Let's see him do it in a D25. I was in the D25 because I needed to carry ord. The D11 does not carry ord.
Not being the operative word.
Toodle-Pip :D
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What it's about is you complaining about small maps and then pointing out that they can be all right if you can get in some easy kills.
I don't care how you fly. But I find it greatly amusing one the true nature of your argument is fully revealed in this thread.
You don't dare post that film; it destroys your entire argument from day one and validates Laz's observations.
I find that hilarious.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I've seen your career stats for the P47 - 7 kills and 6 deaths in a P47D30. Looks like you gave up on it in short order.
BTW, this didn't sound right.
So either you haven't actually looked or the way you check "career stats" is incorrect. How did you figure that "career stats" thing out btw? It's obvious to me you didn't use HTC's tour by tour kill stats.
I don't fly it much but I have flown it some. I flew it more before you even played AH, I think. Anyway, a quick check of my D-30 kill stats shows this statement of yours to be exceedingly incorrect.
Anyway, how are YOU doing in the F4U-1? Want to match kill stats / male member length in that? :rofl
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Toad ... go here ...
http://www.innomi.com/ahkillstats/careerstats.php?player=toad&sortby=killsin_sort
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Beet1e ... in
F4U-1 - 8 kills in / 5 deaths in / 24 Killed by / 50 kills of / 1.60 K/D in / 2.08 K/D against
Beets #1 plane ...
F4U-1C - 1203 kills in / 319 deaths in / 34 killed by / 51 kills of / 3.77 K/D in / 1.50 K/D against.
Talk about EasyMode™ planes ... the plane that was banished into Perk Hell is his #1 killer ... :D
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In fairness to Beet, career stats are updated at the end of each tour. He could be tearing it up in an F4u-1 this tour and it wouldn't show in career stats.....yet. :)
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Big Isle's map sucks... WOW! :D
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Beet1e, you're arguing with guys that log more hours on the bbs than they do in the game. Well, one of them at least logs more hours in front of a mirror, but I'll let you quess which one that is. :D
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Originally posted by Toad
You don't dare post that film; it destroys your entire argument from day one and validates Laz's observations.
What the hell are you talking about?
It's a thread about map rotation!
It's a thread about map rotation!
It's a thread about map rotation!
It's a thread about map rotation!
It's a thread about map rotation!
Five should be enough. :rolleyes:
Yeah, you'd love to get hold of that film and turn the thread into an off-topic rant about playing styles/personal stats/flying from disadvantages. The film is not relevant to the ON topic discussion about maps/map rotation, but on the other hand I can use individual screenshots from it to repudiate various false allegations that have appeared here.
About your P47D30 stats, you said "So either you haven't actually looked or the way you check "career stats" is incorrect." Erm... no... Slapshot beat me to it with the career stats link which, to use your own words, "destroys your entire argument from day one" :D Steve - if you still have that fork, I think you might want to hand it to Mr. Toad so he can eat his crow. :lol
So, Mr. Toad, Slapshot came to your rescue with your stats before you could dig yourself any deeper into that hole you were digging for yourself. 7 career kills in a P47D30? Heck, I've had 10 in a single sortie with that very plane - on the pizza map by Cod - LOL. Maybe I know something you don't?
Slapshot! The banishment of the CHog into Perk Hell predates my inauguration to this game, and I therefore consider it irrelevant. Still, if you can't get one over me in the present day, why not talk about the past, of days gone by when I wasn't even here. :lol The rest of what you said is way off topic, by the way. Still, it's always good to give the pot a good stir after you've been proved wrong when you said "Yet you then claim to have landed 5 kills and did not vulch. The math does not add up my friend." But you were right to question the fact that it was a 4v4. In fact there were only 2 of us rooks present at the start as the screenshot from my film shows, making it a 2v4. Oh, and I will concede that one of those kills was a vulch. The other four were not, and I have the proof. I'll post it one day, but it won't be today. :D
Slapshot cites the F4U1C as my #1 plane. I thought the "skill ratio", as HTC calls it, was based on k/d. My own view that anything less than about 100 kills in a plane is too small a sampling to be accurate - a bit like trying to gauge the popularity of the pizza map based on BBS rants. So let's discount my 11/1 k/d in the 190F8 and look to the next plane in the k/d list for which I have more than 100 kills. Erm..., erm... why, it's the P47D25 at 4.45! Who would have thought it. :eek: Guess I must be doing something right in that plane after all.
MetaTron! Yep, and just look - Toad/Slapshot, all dying to turn this into a thread about play styles etc. and the rights and wrongs of one style versus another, despite the fact that the unofficial squad mantra is to fly what you like, how you like, and despite the fact they claim "not to give a fig" about what/how anyone else plays this game, while they provide subtle assertions that *their* way is the only *correct* way. Can you say "hypocrite"? ;)
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So much to do here.
OK, first the P-47 thing. Sorry to tell you this Beet, you've been deceived but probably not intentionally. Innominates Career Stats are simply incorrect.
How do you like your crow? Rare or well-done? With as much lipping off as you've done about my Jug flying, I'd have to guess well-done.
Let's go with official HTC stats, OK? I didn't bother with career but if you'll check my D-30 Jug stats in tours 4-8 just for starters, I think you'll see the error of your ways. Now, those are not real impressive stats overall but that is flying the D30 as a weedwacker. :)
Anyway, Innominate's stats are wrong and I hope you enjoy your crow.
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Well alrighty then. Let me know when/if we can get this thread back on topic. :cool:
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Now, to the patented "Ol Shifty On-Topic Discussion Defense".
It probably escapes you but YOU are the one that brought your glorious tale of a successful vulch sortie to BBS to aid your discussion of maps.
Here, let me help you remember. You started this thread with a small map whine:
But you're killing us with these small maps.
You state that you just log now if a small map is up that doesn't suit you.
I logged on yesterday and saw Baltic was still up - and immediately logged off again.
Further on you post a picture of what, for you, are unacceptable play conditions and again say you usually log when small maps are up. Apparently, you don't like steamroller tactics but as we all know, those are common to all maps now.
I just checked the MA to see what's happening - the pic shows what I saw. Note the long green bardar and short red one in one sector, and the long red one and short green one in another sector not far away.... I looked at all this and logged off. I've got more interesting things to do right now than to participate in this mess.
Now, you've said the same boring stuff that you hate on the small maps is present on the big maps:
People are forced down the furball road and forced to contemplate the hordes/steamrollers and forced to deal with suicide duel porkage - assuming they don't log off, that being the choice I normally make in that situation. As soon as the friendly side starts to get the upper hand, the vulchers are drawn by that big green bardar. Of course, that same thing happens on pizza.
But, of course, on Pizza you have "choice". :lol As you say:
The difference is that there are more choices on AKD/pizza. There will be another battle at the embryonic stage in another part of the map
Then you tell us just how good it can be on the Pizza map.
I upped a P47D25 and joined some squaddies trying for a capture on A23 of the AKD/pizza map. It was a straight fight between our field and their field. No P51 interlopers from the field next door or anything of that sort.
This sortie is highly praised as the sort of action YOU come to AH to find. :)
Now, you're not known to be bashful about posting films of your exploits of derring-do but this time the film is not going to be released. Strange indeed? Don't you want all of us unwashed to see how much fun there is to be had on AKD?
No, Beet... you started this map whine thread and you used that sortie to support you position. It's not off topic a bit to discuss it or ask to see it.
In short, I think that film clearly demonstrates why you find the large maps so much better than small maps. I think you're embarassed to show that what you like is exactly what Laz has pointed out for so long.
I think it would truly illustrate why you don't like small maps and it's exactly what Laz has often pointed out.
On small maps, you have to fight. All the time. To and from the targets.
Don't ya just hate that? :rofl
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Excuse me, Beet? No apology for all that career stat vitriol?
A simple "Sorry, I was wrong" will do.
Thank you.
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beetle... how wrong can you be if metavoss is on your side?
lazs poll question... "Do you like the pizza map?" 5,000 no... 8 yes.
beetle poll question. " is the pizza map allright with you and would you like me to send you $1,000 a month and be known as a hetrosexual?" "yes or no only"
15 yes and 2 no.
dredilocks is correct. the map could easily be fixed in the way he describes. The more fields/areas that are fixed the better the gameplay and the more choice.
lazs
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Originally posted by Toad
Excuse me, Beet? No apology for all that career stat vitriol?
A simple "Sorry, I was wrong" will do.
Thank you.
You're welcome. Have a nice day! :)
But no apology from me. You have not apologised for being wrong when you said "the milkrun where you vulched 5?" and "It probably escapes you but YOU are the one that brought your glorious tale of a successful vulch sortie", (one kill at most was a vulch) so I see no reason to take this thread even further off topic by getting into a discussion about stats which goes back to Y2K, and certainly feel no need to apologise to you when you won't apologise to me.
I talked about three P47 sorties. The one for which you want the film, the one in which I got killed because there were high bogies waiting, and the third one which was when my squaddies arrived to find no opposition: They were all down on the deck chasing me by then. They had blown their alt, so couldn't get back into the fight. I guess the blame for that rests squarely with the pizza map. :rolleyes:
On small maps, you have to fight. All the time. To and from the targets.
Oh yeah? Well I could post film from last week on the small map, showing three F4U sorties off a rook CV, 21 kills, 2 deaths (one death was a ram, one was a GV killshooter death - stray round hit rook LVT). Now YOU are saying that you have to fight. All the time. Would these sorties constitute fighting, or are you going to do a Rude by looking at those and making a fresh exception, something like "those are not fights"?...
... all off topic, of course. But it's clear that the on topic portion of this thread is over.
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I don't understand all this agitation aroung AKDessert when BigIsle is certainly the worst map ...
This map promote timidity and horde behaviour (IMO of course)
add to that that silly 25% fuel and it's a fun killer
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MetaTron! Yep, and just look - Toad/Slapshot, all dying to turn this into a thread about play styles etc. and the rights and wrongs of one style versus another, despite the fact that the unofficial squad mantra is to fly what you like, how you like, and despite the fact they claim "not to give a fig" about what/how anyone else plays this game, while they provide subtle assertions that *their* way is the only *correct* way. Can you say "hypocrite"?
Beet ...
MetaVoss's input means nothing ... simple as that.
I/We are not turning this thread into anything. It was you who came to the table with claims and films of the merits of AKDesert, and I/we simple called you on them. I have not made one mention of "furball", "weedwacker" so I don't see how I was trying to turn this whine ... err ... thread into a "play styles" discussion.
Example ... 4 v 4 with NO vulches ... after being called on it now turns into 2 v 4 with 1 vulch. Beet, you need to be consistant inorder to maintain credibility.
Still, if you can't get one over me in the present day, why not talk about the past, of days gone by when I wasn't even here.
I think that that revelation did "get one over on ya" ... :rofl
... and now you are doing the "Texas 2-Step" trying to turn this around to us ruining this thread.
Keep "stick stirrin'" buddy ... :D
Oh ... and inorder to stay ON TOPIC ... I don't mind AKDesert (I HATE MINDANO MORE). I would like to see some tweaks made to this map so that EVERYBODY™ could enjoy it and these whines would fade into the sunset.:rofl
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Here's the difference that escapes you Beet. I'm not suprised.
Your vitriol about my D30 flying is easily disproven by the available HTC official stats. In short, you are PROVEN wrong.
My assumption about your Excellent AKD Map Adventure is that you were in a position of advantage throughout the fight. You have not disproven that assumption although you say you could quite easily by posting the film.
If I'm wrong, I'll apologize. But don't tell me, SHOW me. Just like I showed you that YOU were wrong about my D30 flying.
You've ALREADY been proven wrong.
See the difference?
Oh yeah? Well I could post film from last week on the small map, showing
Hmm...eager to post THAT glorious film but totally reluctant to post your glorious AKD Jug film? :rofl
I have an idea....... post them both. I'll actually do something I've never done and watch them. Then I'll let you know what I think.
If you had advantage the entire time, don't expect me to be impressed though. You're supposed to win when you have the advantage. BTW, what F4U was that? Could it possibly be the -1C?
Still waiting for you to admit you were wrong about the D30.
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ROFL! This P47 sortie of mine has to be the most talked about sortie I've ever flown. :lol
Slapshot. Define a vulch. Does the aircraft have to be over the runway with his wheels still down for it to be a vulch? If so, it wasn't a vulch. As previously stated, I was de-acking the field. As I pulled out of the dive immediately after killing an ack, I saw in front of me a F6F. It was going after DRKNIGHT, my squaddie. I had been concentrating on aiming at the ack, and was less than 1000 yards from a LA5 on my 6. So... between killing the ack and calling VonHoltz's 6, I didn't know at the time whether the F6F had just taken off. So I called Cod on the red phone on my desk to ask Him to suspend Time while I consulted the .PDF version of the TAS rulebook, as I needed to know whether there was any rule or lawful impediment forbidding the killing of the F6F. I could find none in either testament, and Cod could see no reason why I shouldn't kill the F6F, so He restarted Time, and I was allowed to kill it. Here's what the view looked like just ahead of me...
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/p47pic5.jpg)
... and this was the view behind me...
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/p47pic6.jpg)
So I take it back. The F6F was well clear of the field. So it wasn't a vulch. What's the TAS/Middle Aged Testament have to say about that? But WTF difference does it make in a thread about map rotation? :rolleyes:
Oh and you said I would like to see some tweaks made to this map so that EVERYBODY™ could enjoy it and these whines would fade into the sunset.
Oh I see. You're in the business of making all maps enjoyable to all players? Then may I ask when we can expect the fields on the small maps to be spaced out a little more to discourage interlopers, and some airfields converted to vehicle fields? It's just that I know how some folks enjoy those GV battles. :aok
Failing that, you may have to do what I have done - accept that you're never going to arrive at a situation where all the players like all the maps. It's just never going to happen. And I don't mind - so long as rotation is balanced and fair - the subject of my thread. :)
Mr. Toad! :) Sorry about that - I used some of your red ink without asking you first. :D
Once again, absolutely nothing you said was on topic, but as it's you I'll let it pass!
So, you flew a few D30 sorties four years ago, before Innominate's stat collection was running. Am I supposed to be impressed? Doesn't look like you set the world on fire with it. :p But what have your stats from four years ago got to do with a discussion about the large maps in AH in 2004? Precisely nothing. Which is exactly much as your apology is worth to me. So you can keep it. Still waiting for you to admit you were wrong about the D30.
Still waiting for you to admit you were wrong about the "5 vulches".
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Shifty, you are lots of fun. There's few around here that can dance around what they say like you do.
Look, you started this thread as a whine about small maps. You enumerate all the reasons you don't like small maps while admitting that the large maps have the same things. Then you post about your glorious Jug sortie on AKD, a sortie that you supposedly can't achieve on a small map.
So, the obvious question is why don't you like small maps? You admit they have the same problems as the big maps.
The key is in what you find so desirable in the "choice" the big maps provide. I suggest that what you find desirable is the ability to fly an unopposed sortie or perhaps a sortie where you never find yourself at a disadvantage.
This is germane to the discussion. You whine about the small maps because you supposedly can't do the type of sortie you like to do.
And what type is that? The sortie where you have the advantage at all times. :D
So, I feel the reasoning behind your dislike of small maps is not really what you portray it to be. It's quite on topic to discuss that, IMO.
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Originally posted by beet1e
But what have your stats from four years ago got to do with a discussion about the large maps in AH in 2004? Precisely nothing....Still waiting for you to admit you were wrong about the "5 vulches".
Allow me to point out YOU brought up my D30 stats. You just keep stepping into it don't you?
If you're so worried about trying to stay on topic, why'd YOU bring them up?
I do think it illustrates a point Rude made some time ago. You seem to think you're the only one that has experience in some particular area. Pretty clear that I've been / there done that in the D30 a long time before you even showed up here.
Anyway, you were trying to prove some point... whatever it might have been... and you just didn't do your homework. You embarassed yourself yet again. OF course, even though the HTC data is there for all to see, you just can't bring your fingers to type "Sorry, Toad, I was wrong". I find that laughable and pretty indiciative of your credibility.
As for the actual stats,I flew it like a turnfighter; I doubt you've tried that very much. Given my mode of heading straight for the fight, I'm not unhappy with those stats.
The "five vultches"? Well, as I said, I'll cheerfully retract that and admit I was wrong and apologize as well. AFTER you show me. Post the film. What have you to hide?
Oh... wait... you didn't answer the F4U-1C question about your recent glorious F4U sortie either. :rofl
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"Slapshot. Define a vulch. Does the aircraft have to be over the runway with his wheels still down for it to be a vulch?"
D ... any or all of the above. (pretty hard to be under the runway if you think about it ... hehehe)
"So I called Cod on the red phone on my desk to ask Him to suspend Time while I consulted the .PDF version of the TAS rulebook, as I needed to know whether there was any rule or lawful impediment forbidding the killing of the F6F. I could find none in either testament, and Cod could see no reason why I shouldn't kill the F6F, so He restarted Time, and I was allowed to kill it."
"So I take it back. The F6F was well clear of the field. So it wasn't a vulch. What's the TAS/Middle Aged Testament have to say about that?"
Don't know where this 'tude comes from. There is nobody in the 13th TAS that is above a good vulch and never have I/we allued to such. I only called you on the fact that you originally stated that your 5 kills contained no vulches and the math didn't add up. I wasn't calling you on the act of vulching, just the fact that it was impossible to land a 5 kill sortie in a self-described 4 v 4 fight. And you can't take it back ... you already admitted to it being a vulch ... I called "no take backzees" before.
By the way .. how is Cod doing these days ?
"Oh I see. You're in the business of making all maps enjoyable to all players? Then may I ask when we can expect the fields on the small maps to be spaced out a little more to discourage interlopers, and some airfields converted to vehicle fields? It's just that I know how some folks enjoy those GV battles."
I am not in the business ... not yet at least. If I had my druthers ... I would chit-can all those small maps. They don't work well with the amount of players that we now see Prime Time USA. 600 people on Lake U is unbearable at times.
"And I don't mind - so long as rotation is balanced and fair - the subject of my thread."
Well ... again to follow the vein of this thread ... I AGREE with you Beet ... how's that ?
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Mr. Toad! I’m glad I keep you amused. I really am. :) Your latest missive contains a few errors – let us discuss these.
Look, you started this thread as a whine about small maps.
No, it was not a whine about the small maps. It was a whine about the somewhat distorted map rotation that I’m seeing these days. I won’t whine about the small maps, because there are maps that I do like – Pizza and Trinity are my favourites.
What don’t I like about the small maps? – the interlopers, the viability of upping from the base next door when you come under attack, the ease and effect that the fuel porkage tactic can be deployed, and the furball gameplay that they engender – that, as you well know, is not to my taste – and the way that gameplay becomes focussed between two particular points, the end result of which is Furball-Furball-Furball.
What do I like about the big maps? You said I suggest that what you find desirable is the ability to fly an unopposed sortie or perhaps a sortie where you never find yourself at a disadvantage.
No, it’s not that. I like the fact that the front line is spread out. It means that play will not be concentrated at a certain focal point. On the small maps, there will be a great deal of furballing and gangbanging at that point. Just because the map is big does not mean that I will never be at a disadvantage. Look at that second sortie – my friendlies had augered, and I had no aerial support. I was carrying 2x1000, and there was a co alt Spit and a higher MOSS waiting for me. This is germane to the discussion. You whine about the small maps because you supposedly can't do the type of sortie you like to do. And what type is that? The sortie where you have the advantage at all times.
Not exactly. The small maps can be sort of OK, when there are not too many people online. As to the type of sortie I like to do – I did those F4U sorties 21k and 2 idiot deaths – but I got bored with it. It was like seal clubbing. I can send you those F4U films – there was a three way battle going on – I only realised that when viewing the film afterwards – LOL! (Getting varifocals next week :aok) About the small maps, you said On small maps, you have to fight. All the time. To and from the targets.
Well, those F4U battles were on a small map…
As for the F4U in use – yes, the 1C! And with good reason. I had been flying an F6F but was killed while intercepting low buffs. So I switched to the 1C – it’s an excellent defence against buffs – check my k/h in attack mode for tour 49. Having said that, the buffs didn’t show, and I could have got all the kills I got in a 1D which, in my opinion, seems to be lighter/more nimble and flies better than the 1C. I flew the 1D much more than the 1C in tour 49. So, I feel the reasoning behind your dislike of small maps is not really what you portray it to be. It's quite on topic to discuss that, IMO.
I’ve moved on from where you are in the script. I’m past map whining, because I know that map utopia – the situation whereby all players like all maps – is a hypothetical scenario which can never be achieved. Instead, all I ask for is balanced and fair map rotation. Allow me to point out YOU brought up my D30 stats. You just keep stepping into it don't you?
Yes I did, because you seemed to be castigating me for flying the P47D25 as a B&Z plane, which you perceive as flying from an advantage. You seemed to be saying that I should be flying it as a 2K weed wacker. I could tell you didn’t have much of a clue about how to fly those heavy P47s, and this was borne out by your P47 stats. Your stats in Innominate’s database were bad enough, but when you pointed out those earlier tours – 17k/19d – LOL! –pretty pitiful actually. Now if that had been me, I would have worked at getting better in that plane. It would have been a challenge. But you seem to have given up on it because you couldn’t make it succeed as a 2K weed wacker. Pretty clear that I've been / there done that in the D30
BS. You’ve done fig-all in the P47, and know fig all about how it should be flown. No wonder you sucked. You embarassed yourself yet again.
No I didn’t. The correct spelling is embarrassed, by the way. Given my mode of heading straight for the fight, I'm not unhappy with those stats.
LOL! 17 kills and 19 deaths? No further comment required. :lol
And on to Slapshot! OK, so that F6F was clear of the field and with his wheels up. That would have sounded like 2 questions to Lazs. :lol So, the one kill in question was not a vulch after all. As previously stated there was one prox kill, as it turns out. The kill I thought I’d got there was in fact an assist. (Spit)
I don’t know Cod, but I knew a Codd – Edgar Codd who worked for IBM. I read his 1969 book about database design methodology. If only everyone had developed systems as suggested by Codd, there wouldn’t be nearly the number of mess-ups!
Other than that – we seem to agree! :):aok
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Originally posted by lazs2
beetle... how wrong can you be if metavoss is on your side?
dredilocks is correct. the map could easily be fixed in the way he describes. The more fields/areas that are fixed the better the gameplay and the more choice.
lazs
Im almost always correct but thats besides the point :D
And its Drediock pronounced Dred EE ock
:p
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Originally posted by Toad
OK, first the P-47 thing. Sorry to tell you this Beet, you've been deceived but probably not intentionally. Innominates Career Stats are simply incorrect.
not so much incorrect as incomplete... his stats start at tour 24 (i think) and up to date.
just sayin'
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Beet, Beet, Beet....
You've goofed again.
I'm not going to do ALL your homework for you. I didn't list all the tours I in which I flew the D30. Just enough to show you were wrong the first time.
Check Tour 11 for instance.
You simply haven't reviewed all my stats. I've flown the D30. Not very much in the max boredom, ultra risk avoidance mode of course; that's not my style.
There's no doubt you can better my stats in a D30; I'll never fly the way you do. There was a time when I did; Rude sorta insisted and I went along with it. However, that was in a P-51. I can fly "carefully" or "realistically" or whatever the current euphemism happens to be but it bores me to tears.
Now as to your F4U-1C escapade, I only asked because I wondered if the guy that continually denigrates P-51/La-7/Spit/N1K1 pilots would himself fly the easiest-killing F4U of them all, the four Hispano powerhouse. (Oh.. yeah... check my stats in that too. :rofl I suggest you do not use Innominate's page for that this time.)
Suprise, suprise. You are just too funny... the walking contradiction. :rofl
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Originally posted by beet1e
Yes I did, because you seemed to be castigating me for flying the P47D25 as a B&Z plane, which you perceive as flying from an advantage.
Please show me where I said anything negative at all about your choice of aircraft. Please show me where I castigated you at all. Quotes, if you would.
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Originally posted by Toad
Please show me where I said anything negative at all about your choice of aircraft. Please show me where I castigated you at all. Quotes, if you would.
he's self-castrated.
oooo... you said castigated... my bad.
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Just out of curiosity, Beet1e, how do my career stats shape up? :D I bet Toad makes me look bad, eh?
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No, Voss. Making you look bad has been your own particular specialty for more than a decade.
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Voss, you're SO all that, do you come w/ a bag of chips?
:aok
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Pizza Sucks...
The fight is too spread out... Makes it too easy for milkrunners to hit undefended strats and take undefended bases...
The front is stretched out over 75 bases... leaves about 2 people per base if everyone is defending during peak times... not a good way to play.
I read the people saying, well when Pizza is up there are about 600people playing so it must not be that unpopular... you could not be more wrong... I hate Pizza, but I play it... why??? Cause I am paying $15/month regardless of weatehr I play or not, so why waste my money??? I just suck it up, load my plane with 100% fuel and drop tanks and fly for 45mins to find a fight where I can fight for 3 mins, kill a few enemy and then get swatted by his 50 friends who have upped in their La7's and Nik's.
Why do people like the small maps more.... simple, more action, more often. And then there is always the chance for a reset... when was the last time someone actually won on Pizza?!!?!??? It's always exciting near a reset... the last ditch defense and counter attacks (that sometimes actually work) and if you're on the offensive... trying to overcome those situations where the panic and crunch has all 120 enemies at only 2 fields.
SO bring on the small maps, more of em and more often... or we can stick with the boredom of pizza, and the useless fighting that takes place in Tank Town on trinity.
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Mr. Toad.
I’m not going to sit here going through page after page after page of your stats from years gone by for the purposes of adding to a thread about map rotation. Shane is correct about Innominate’s stats. They’re not wrong, they just didn’t start till later. But for the purposes of our discussion, they are perfectly adequate. I’m as interested in what went on before Innominate’s stats came into being as I am in checking your P47D30 stats in whatever DOS sim you were playing in 1989 on a Commodore 64 or ZX81 Spectrum. And once again – for the purposes of a discussion about map rotation, which is what this thread is about, it’s all totally irrelevant. As for ultra risk avoidance, you think that’s me? As I killed that first 190, this was the scene behind me. That zeke was doing more than 300mph. Luckily, so was I!
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/p47pic7.jpg)
I can fly "carefully" or "realistically" or whatever the current euphemism happens to be but it bores me to tears.
Gawd…that bad, huh? You must have had a boring time at work. I was afraid of that. :( So instead, you tried flying the D30 as a 2K weed wacker and died a lot, and kept having to go through that whole rigmarole of taking off, and spending valuable moments climbing to 2K. Oh well, at least you weren’t bored. I realise that the only interesting thing about realistic flying for you was taking off and landing. And dying is cool! :cool: But flight sim landings can be fun too, you know. You must try them some time. :lol
As I said, of the F4U1C escapade, the kills were of fighters/GVs – the field was covered with those as I came through and pipped an LVT. No risk at all! :aok I could have used a 1D, though the LVTs might have been harder to kill with that. To reiterate, I was up in the 1C to guard against the very real possibility of the arrival of ju88s/LANCs. Seems it didn’t sink in the first time. Otherwise, I’ll use the 1D. Even in that, it’s well within the realms of possibility to shoot down an entire formation of LANCs. Not convinced? Let me know if you need the film. :D Now as to your F4U-1C escapade, I only asked because I wondered if the guy that continually denigrates P-51/La-7/Spit/N1K1 pilots would himself fly the easiest-killing F4U of them all, the four Hispano powerhouse. (Oh.. yeah... check my stats in that too. I suggest you do not use Innominate's page for that this time.) Suprise, suprise. You are just too funny... the walking contradiction.
Wow, Mr. Toad. You really are a desperate man. Or maybe you’re just bored. You must have been flying a P47D30. Properly! :lol But here, you’ve surpassed yourself. You’re not just scraping the barrel, you’re going underneath it! And you’re obsessed about the past. We covered all this five months ago in a thread by MuckMAW. You were being all high and mighty on your TAS soapbox, condemning people for choosing to fly the F4U1C, and I said… I just checked old Toady's stats, and several easymode planes are in his list - lol. In tour 44 at #3 we have the P51D (11 kills) and at #5 we have the LA7 (3 kills)...But get this, after all the railing in his last post, guess what his #4 plane was? Clue: Amazing guns, virtually unparalleled ground attack capabilities, the ability to take off from normal bases as well as carriers, nice medium to high speed handling, a great roll rate, 800 rounds of 20mm ammo, tough as nails, and it's relatively faster than "dweeb rides of choice" that turn better. The is the most well-rounded plane in the game, bar none. To pretend otherwise is to delude yourself. :rofl
I was just answering your questions, Mr. Toad. NONE of the above relates to the topic which at was at one time under discussion in this thread. Face it, Bufo. Even you have limits. And now, you've finally run out of gas. My topic was about map rotation, and lamenting the fact that Pizza had been rolled out and substituted by Baltic. But here you are, talking about events that occurred on other maps, other tours, different planes, different ways of flying, and stuff that happened in years gone by. I'll be seeing my mother on the weekend. She's got my birth certificate, on which are recorded my tiny footprints. I'll post a picture of that in this thread. It'll give you something different to talk about! And it might be more on topic than what's gone before. :lol
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Madman! :) Don't mind me while I goof off with Mr. Toad. He and his friends -Lazs, slapshot, nopoop- are a bunch of good old boys, and I mean old - all older than me and the wrong side of 50. :lol
Sorry if you don’t like the pizza map. I feel the same way about the small maps.
I’d just like to address some of the things you said in your post. The fight is too spread out... Makes it too easy for milkrunners to hit undefended strats and take undefended bases... The front is stretched out over 75 bases... leaves about 2 people per base if everyone is defending during peak times... not a good way to play.
A lot of people say that, but the inverse of that is to have a front line where there are only a few front line bases, and with 600 people online, it’s going to be furball-furball-furball. I don’t like furball-furball-furball for the same reasons Mr. Toad doesn’t like to fly a P47D30 the way it’s supposed to be flown – it bores me. That F4U1C escapade he talks about is a case in point. I don't enjoy seal clubbing the guys who have just upped. And he's right - it IS easy, which is why after three sorties and 21 kills I was bored to tears, and logged off. No challenge see. Which is also the reason I don't fly the P51/LA7/Spit ix subset... But I digress - it's a nasty habit I've picked up from Mr. Toad! I hate Pizza, but I play it... why??? Cause I am paying $15/month regardless of weatehr I play or not, so why waste my money???
I regard it in the same way as a seasonal investment like a holiday home. You won't be able (or won't want) to use it all year round. Same for AH. There are weeks and certain times in those weeks when AH does not interest me. I just suck it up, load my plane with 100% fuel and drop tanks and fly for 45mins to find a fight where I can fight for 3 mins, kill a few enemy and then get swatted by his 50 friends who have upped in their La7's and Nik's.
Hold on a minute. You talk about "undefended bases" and the fight being "too spread out (2 people per base)" but then speak of 51 guys appearing in LA7s. The two scenarios are inconsistent. As for undefended bases/milkrunning, there are no fewer than FIVE warning systems for when a base is under attack: Flashing map, siren, the verbal "base under attack" warning, radar, and bardar. How many more warning systems need there be to cajole the defence into getting off their butts to defend? No, I suspect the real issue is that when they come under attack, they don't want to defend for fear of dying. So as Lazs would put it, they stay out of harm's way, quivering under their bunks because the option to come in with a P51/LA7 from a field two minutes away with a 10K alt advantage is not available on the pizza map. And the dweebs hate that. :D:lol Why do people like the small maps more.... simple, more action, more often. And then there is always the chance for a reset... when was the last time someone actually won on Pizza?!!?!??? It's always exciting near a reset... the last ditch defense and counter attacks (that sometimes actually work) and if you're on the offensive... trying to overcome those situations where the panic and crunch has all 120 enemies at only 2 fields.
Pizza was actually reset last Sunday night. I believe it was also reset the last time it was up which would have been six weeks before that. As for the excitement approaching a reset, when the defence is down to two fields, that is a subjective matter. If I may borrow Mr. Toad's mantle for a moment, I will tell you about something that happened four years ago in a different game - WB. A squad event in which I had to fly a P51D. The defence was down to very few bases - two at the most. In the session that followed I got 27 kills and never even got pinged once - even when killing a ju88, bearing in mind that WB buff gunners were automatic - otto. It was as easy as pie, and as far as I am concerned, as boring as hell. After the squad bit was over, I asked if I could switch to a more challenging plane, and changed to a F4U. I still have my whine email to my CO about being made to fly a P51D. :mad:;)
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Originally posted by beet1e
...checking your P47D30 stats...it’s all totally irrelevant.
It's you that brought up the Jug stats, chum. But we're pretty used to you arguing in a totally irrelevant manner. The least you could have done is get them right. You couldn't even do that on your SECOND run at it. :rofl
So lament "off-topic" all you like. You're the instigator, stat man.
Originally posted by beet1e
So instead, you tried flying the D30 as a 2K weed wacker and died a lot,.... at least you weren’t bored.
Correct. Boredom is the true enemy here. There's guys that can fight amazingly well in any of the Jugs in low-level turn and burns. I'm just not one of them. Ammo and Sancho spring to mind. At least I tried, though. For me, the somnolence of the Beetfite is not a viable option.
As for all your plane blather, I can easily understand you trying to obscure your fondness for the -1C, given how you routinely denigrate the P-51/Spit/N1K1/La-7 fliers. If there ever was a point/shoot/destroy aircraft, the 4 Hispano blue monster is it.
Hypocrisy, thy name is Beet.
BTW, Beet... don't you realize your entire post was off-topic? Focus, lad, focus!
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Originally posted by Toad
It's you that brought up the Jug stats, chum.
Yep, because you kept saying it was a "no risk" flight - when you haven't even seen the film. So I had a look at your stats and saw that you didn't have much of a clue how to use the P47 - any of them. So then you pointed out your stats from earlier tours, and it simply reinforced my belief! BTW, Beet... don't you realize your entire post was off-topic?
Well of course it was! I was responding to all the points YOU made. It was bound to be off topic. :lol That's why I made a separate posting for Madman! :aok
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Oh, I know how to use a Jug the way you do. I just didn't and don't do that because I find it boring.
But feel free to make an assumption that is totally unwarranted based on your own limited view of how to play the game.
It's your best, safest move, after all.
BTW, how you coming with that F4U-1? Did you ever get the hang of it? :lol
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Originally posted by Toad
Oh, I know how to use a Jug the way you do. I just didn't and don't do that because I find it boring.
Oh yeah? You know how to get 10 kills in a sortie in a D30? Maybe you do. But that would be boring. Dying is clearly much more enjoyable for you. :lolBut feel free to make an assumption that is totally unwarranted based on your own limited view of how to play the game.
Hah! Talk about hypocrite. It's you and your ilk who are interested only in one third of the game - the air to air furballing.
F4U1 - same problem as the P38 - limited visibility, and my SA is bad enough! The 1D is working well for me though. I ran into your man Mars01 last night. Can't remember much about it though.
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the air to air combat is only a third of the game? What is the other two thirds?
lazs
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Yeah, actually I do. I can also get 7 in an F4F-4 in a furball and land. I've been furballing in a 205 and getting 5-6 too. Can you? This is starting out below the multiple enemies, now.
My interest in furballing doesn't make me a hypocrite in the least. I've always preferred it and said so.
I don't care that you prefer limited-risk flying, either. That's your choice. I just don't really respect that type of flying and I think that's what bugs you.
Ask anyone in this game who are the "good" players and most don't have to check stats. "Good" players beat you on YOUR terms and most folks can quickly list a few.
However, you rarely see anyone naming the limited risk, beat you on THEIR terms pilots.
As I said before, when you have the advantage you're supposed to win.
Bottom line of your thrust in this thread is you don't like small maps because it's harder for you to fly your type of flights without "interlopers" showing up. Big maps allow you to avoid interlopers.
It isn't really about the map per se. It's about whether you can avoid having to fight on someone else's terms.
IMO, of course.
Toodles.
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These vanity threads have gotten tiresome.
Can't we all just admit that beetle is a great pilot with fantastic spelling and grammar skills who knows which maps are best for AH and avoid these threads in the future.
zazen/metavoss too.
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Originally posted by Toad
Yeah, actually I do. I can also get 7 in an F4F-4 in a furball and land. I've been furballing in a 205 and getting 5-6 too. Can you? This is starting out below the multiple enemies, now.
Well good. I'm happy for you. In the C205 for last tour, you're at 32k and 19d. Why, with a little more practice you might just push past the 2-1 mark. :aok I see you've already made it past 3-1 in the F4F in the same tour. As for me, I've never ever flown either of those planes - not even offline. But I realise the main thrust of your hero worship has always been with the pilots of the uber-turning wonderplanes. I don't care that you prefer limited-risk flying, either. That's your choice. I just don't really respect that type of flying and I think that's what bugs you.
You can respect who you want and disrespect who you want. To use your own words, I don't give a fig. But the fact that you couch it in those terms from your soapbox is a measure of your arrogance. Bottom line of your thrust in this thread is you don't like small maps because it's harder for you to fly your type of flights without "interlopers" showing up. Big maps allow you to avoid interlopers.
Wrong. The bottom line of this thread (the smaller "on topic" part near the beginning) is that we've each got our preferences. You are never going to talk me into becoming a T&B guy, and you'll never again be interested in the energy fighters. In this thread, I acknowledged that each person has a map preference. And I don't mind if there are maps that I don't like - so long the map rotation is balanced and fair so that I can get a fair crack on the maps that I do like. That is the bottom line.
I don't like the small maps because of the problem with interlopers, amongst other things. Seems that folks who don't like Pizza dislike it because they cannot become interlopers. At least, not without a 6 minute flight...
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kill the one(s) you're ganging faster. learn to fight. then the "interlopers" wouldn't be too much of a problem.
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There YOU go with those off-topic stats again. Yeah, that C-205 is a wonder-turner for sure; outturns the white zeke easily. I hadn't flown it much in a long time and it took me a while to get semi-comfortable again. I see you choose not to use the current tour stats in the 205. You are always afraid to present the real situation aren't you? :rofl
It has nothing to do with hero worship. After flying both styles over the years it just became apparent to me that the guys that beat you on YOUR terms are much better than the guys that always make sure to meet you on THEIR terms. You are one of the latter, that's all.
The risk-averse style will give you better stats, if you have any skill at all. That's pretty much a no-brainer. You can call it realistic, careful, situationally aware or whatever you like but the names don't change the facts.
Further, most of the guys that can beat you on YOUR terms can do it in any mode. B&Z, Turnfight, situationally aware, whatever; they'll just beat you. Those are the guys I respect and try to emulate. Who is better, the guy that will likely win in any situation or the guy that wins when he holds the advantage? There's no arrogance to it, just common sense.
Are you really impressed when you're already engaged with two enemies and holding your own and someone swoops down in a Jug or a F4U-1C and blows you out of the sky in one pass? I'm not. But that's good for stats for the Jug or Hog driver.
You assume to much. I don't care if you ever T&B; that's your choice, not mine. It's you that are hung up about it. The reluctance of the greatest film poster of all to post the film of his exciting Jug mission on AKD shows you're overly sensitive about it. Otherwise, you'd post that one like you post so many others showing your incredibly manliness and leet skilz. Matches up well with your proclivity to call all P-51/La-7/Spit/N1K1 drivers "dweebs" as you roll your Cannon Hog out to B&Z the unwary. ;)
Your problem with interlopers is hilarious. Perhaps you could develop a system to reserve block altitudes and times for 1 v 1 fights on any map? Sign up to duel or something?
Two words: MAIN ARENA Clue: 500+ players.
May I suggest the Dueling Arena if you don't like "interlopers" spoiling your advantage?
Cya, Ol' Shifty.
Hey.. wait... why don't you bring up some more stats? You know, so you can keep your thread on topic?
:rofl :rofl
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ok... we all agree.... if you don' fly the less survivable planes then you would certainly like the fields and slow moving targets to be spread out and bored into a mild stupor...
If you like combat and don't like the late war monsters you want to have massive fights that tax your skills. closer fields to get into and back out of the fight sooner.
lazs
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Who cares about who's the best pilot, especially in a thread about map rotation? Is that what you spend your $14.95 on? So that you can participate in a contest to judge who's the best pilot? I would rather spend MY $14.95 enjoying the game how I choose, not how someone else chooses! I personally like to fly planes I've read about, or whose pilots I have met, or both.
I looked at the stats for tour 49, that being the last complete tour. Funny how you insist that I should be focussing on looking at your achievements for the last few days when all along you have been pontificating about what you did in years gone by. :lol Now who's the shifty one? Get Slapshot to teach you to dance the Texas 2-step. :rofl
The rest of your post is so.... erm... what is that phrase... off topic! For this reason, my reply need only be brief.
T-P
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Originally posted by beet1e
I don't want to see the altitudes reduced either. I love the high alt fights in the Jug, and getting the LA7s out of their comfort zone. I love even more the fact that when a base is put under pressure, the opposition does not have the dweeb option of upping EasyMode™ planes (sorry Steve) from the next base to repel the attack.
Beetle,
With all due respect, doesnt the above really make the point, "I want the Map to dictate what and how others fly" ?
You support Pizza because it forces LA7 pilots to fly out of thier comfort zone. You seem to support the Idea that Pizza will limit your opponets aircraft choice when a base in put under pressure.
Isnt your arguement against small maps, really based on not liking the choices open to your opponets??
It seems like Mid-sized maps, such as the FesterMA is the best form of comprimise for all parties, except it doesnt really force people to fly out of their comfort zone.
When Hitech came out with the larger maps, I felt then, as I do now, that it was too large a step. Mid-size maps make the most sence to me.
I feel that All maps should get fair time, So I am in agreement with you that Rotations could be improved.
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"Get Slapshot to teach you to dance the Texas 2-step."
Never have had to learn that dance ... but you are doing a fine job teaching us all about it and your quite good at it too. You must have had plenty of prior experience.
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Grimm. Nice to hear from you. :)
With all due respect, doesnt the above really make the point, "I want the Map to dictate what and how others fly" ?
.
.
.
.
Isnt your arguement against small maps, really based on not liking the choices open to your opponets??
No, what I want to see, as always, is balance. I'm not arguing against the small maps. Notice it's always the furballers who whine and clamour for the fields to be moved closer together - even on non-furball maps like Pizza. I never suggested that the fields on the small maps should be spaced out more, or made higher... although I have made that tongue in cheek suggestion in this thread if only to strike a balance with the folks clamouring to have some fields moved closer together on the Pizza map. Sure, it's nice for a jug pilot to have an 11K field to take off from, or for LA7s to be struggling at those dizzy heights. And right now, the pizza map is the only map which has fields at those elevations.
I don't really like the small maps, though they can be OK if not too many people are on. Otherwise, the gameplay seems to become one-sided - the steamroller.
But I'm not pressing for changes to those maps, because I know they are some people's favourite maps. I must admit I was touched by Fester's consideration when he spaced out some of the fields on his maps, and added clouds at 3K so that guys like me could feel at home. ;) At the same time, I don't want to see changes to the pizza map. The range of maps is balanced. Now all we need is for the rotation to become balanced.
Slapshot! Never have had to learn that dance ... but you are doing a fine job teaching us all about it and your quite good at it too. You must have had plenty of prior experience.
I am? But unlike you, I'd never heard of it! Sounds like a dance Ross Perot might have invented.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Who cares about who's the best pilot, especially in a thread about map rotation?
Only you; you keep bringing up stats and pointing out they show someone "knows nothing" about how to fly "the such and such plane". What it really shows is that you know nothing about how I or anyone else flies, really.
You make the assumption, with a total absence of data, that I couldn't fly the D30 the way you do. One little letter has you all mixed up. I wouldn't fly the D30 the way you do. It would bore me to death. But, if I wanted to, I feel I could do as well. As I pointed out, in the bad old days, we flew the P-51 about like you fly your D30. As you point out, it's our respective $15. Check my sig block. I really don't care what or how you fly. Nor will I ever have much respect for those who strive to fight only from an advantage.
Again, you're the one beating your manly chest and pointing out your three dark chest hairs here. Your tales of derring-do litter this thread. You have belittled my (selected) stats while you have no idea how they were achieved or the overall picture. I think you got a glimmer when you tried the F4U-1 when I suggested it though. ;) You didn't last long in that, did you? It's a hard plane to do well in, isn't it?
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Originally posted by Toad
Only you; you keep bringing up stats and pointing out they show someone "knows nothing" about how to fly "the such and such plane". What it really shows is that you know nothing about how I or anyone else flies, really.
Oh, so that's it. What has rankled all this time is the mere mention that I landed 5 kills in one of those pizza map sorties. Is that why you want the film? So you can pull it apart? because it has bugger all to do with the type of engagement that was possible on the pizza map on Friday. To gain an objective assessment, you would need the films of all ten people who were present. But please tell me why MY film (one out of a possible ten from that engagement) could be so important to you in a thread about map rotation? I wouldn't fly the D30 the way you do. It would bore me to death.
Bores you to death? But by flying it *your* way provides you with your own personalised fasttrack to death, and cuts out the boredom. I can see why you prefer it! :lol
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Simple. It clearly illustrates what you're looking for in the game, which, IMO, appears to be the opportunity to always have the advantage; the "no interlopers", minimal risk profiles you prefer to fly.
Thus, knowing that you basically want no interference when you're pouncing some guy, it's quite understandable why you would want the fields as far apart as possible. You're risk averse; closer fields raise the risk of a dreaded "interloper". (It also explains why Beet, the film-postingest chest-thumper on this BBS suddenly can't find the nerve to put up his heroic D30 sortie. The sudden reticence seems to show your true feelings as well.)
Conversely, it's easy to understand why someone like Leviathan (for jsut one instance) isn't bothered by "interlopers" and likely welcomes them. He probably views them as a steady stream of "fresh meat".
Flying my way allows me to continually attempt to win the fights I shouldn't win. That's where I feel I get value from the time invested.
For example, I suspect everyone vultches at one time or another or maybe whenever they can. But I would think it's the rare guy that actually feeds his ego on the thin gruel of vultching. You SHOULD be able to vultch. You're holding just about every card in the deck. If vultching was all there was, how long would it hold anyone's interest.
No, for me, winning the ones you shouldn't win makes the game.
I'll understand if you don't understand. In fact, I doubt you will.
:p
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In my spitV I interloped on Lev last night, they were both 1v'1's.
Gosh what fun. Todd, next time I'm not waitin for you to come back to the KB. :D
Oh my,, this is off topic.... sorry.
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Originally posted by Toad
for me, winning the ones you shouldn't win makes the game.
It's interesting how you finally get to that point. The last couple of tours including this one I've spent getting in WAY to deep. I'm getting the snot beat out of me on a nightly basis.
So I tell myself, dammit were going to land this one, play it smart don't get in too deep.
It's a fine edge. Flying with Hooley last night I found the edge. First time in FUGGING MONTHS.
Playing it safe isn't an option, being on the edge is where it's at for me.
Flying "safe" to me isn't fun. Been there done that. Got ALL pissed off if I died. Found I wasn't having fun.
When I win one I shouldn't it just doesn't get any better.
That explains the snot..
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Originally posted by Toad
Simple. It clearly illustrates what you're looking for in the game, which, IMO, appears to be the opportunity to always have the advantage; the "no interlopers", minimal risk profiles you prefer to fly.
...which has nothing to do with the topic under discussion - map rotation. But I know you. I know how you like to hold court from the safety of your TAS soapbox. Well guess what? To use your own words, I'm not going to be doing your homework for you. So you won't be getting that film.Thus, knowing that you basically want no interference when you're pouncing some guy, it's quite understandable why you would want the fields as far apart as possible. You're risk averse; closer fields raise the risk of a dreaded "interloper". (It also explains why Beet, the film-postingest chest-thumper on this BBS suddenly can't find the nerve to put up his heroic D30 sortie. The sudden reticence seems to show your true feelings as well.)
The keyword is BALANCE. When I flew out to that Bish field, the defence clearly had an advantage over me in some cases, in the form of co-alt spit and much higher MOSS - against my heavy jug. If closer fields raise the risk of an interloper, then more widely spaced fields ensure a level playing field. The battle has to be between the two bases waging war. Of course, there's nothing to stop an interloper - if he has the attention span to make the 6 minute flight. :lol - which is what I had to do to get to the battle zone in the first place. Conversely, it's easy to understand why someone like Leviathan (for jsut one instance) isn't bothered by "interlopers" and likely welcomes them. He probably views them as a steady stream of "fresh meat".
Ah yes, Leviathn. I saw him the other day, just before I shot down a formation of LANCs in my F6F. He was flying low to the opposition - in a Spit, I believe. I warned that there were four cons ahead of him, but he either didn't hear or chose to ignore the warning, and was soon dead. I filmed the sortie, but only the part where I got the LANCs, not what went before. I then spotted a formation of B17s. Rather than push my luck, I simply landed my 7 kills. Poor Leviathn. I did my best to save him...
In another sortie, I saw Fester come in to a field in a P47 from the window of my F4U1D. I cleared his 6 one time (scratch 1xP51) but not long after, he pushed his luck too hard and paid the ultimate price. I was quite happy to work within my (many) limitations, and at the end of it to RTB and land my 6 kills. I do have that whole thing on film.
What was that old saying in RL flying circles? Something like "A superior pilot uses his superior judgement so that he will never have to deploy his superior skill".
Still. I wouldn't know about that. I'm a humble and modest USN pilot. :D;) - muhahahahah :D:rofl
Hi Steve! Feel free to be off topic in my thread. I owe you that much. :)
And now... we're way into T-P time, so...
...Toodle-Pip :D
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Originally posted by beet1e
What was that old saying in RL flying circles? Something like "A superior pilot uses his superior judgement so that he will never have to deploy his superior skill".
[/B]
I'm pretty sure that dying there was no skin off my back. You confuse superior judgement with lack of caring. This isn't real life; my "judgement" isn't under scrutiny. I easily could have grabbed in the opposite direction and come back with speed and altitude on those enemies and, possibly, I would have killed them all.
But I didn't feel like doing that, so I didn't. I chose to take my chances and see what I could make of it. I purposefully flew low into bad odds because I felt like it.
What exactly was your point?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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No homework at all involved. We all know how you fly. Your reluctance to post the film is merely further confirmation.
I seriously doubt either Levi or Cit cares if you "clear their six" (isn't that just a dandy minimal-risk way to raise your stats? Congrats! Kill those dudes that are already engaged... it's the bestest! :rofl)
Nor do I think they care if they get shot down. Perhaps NoPoop explained it better, in a way you might understand. Suffice to say both Cit and Levi probably have done what you now do, only better than you'll ever be. Now they aren't so risk averse, are they?
I think we all know where most of the superior pilots hang out. If you're in doubt, ask Cit, Levi, Shane, WT, Nomak and many others to take you to the DA sometime when you're feeling "interloped" in the MA. See how your superior skills match up.
They always hand me my...... hat...... when I engage them. Let's see how you do.
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Yank this, pull that, it never changes.
In my heart hearts beet I know you are a flightsim GOD.
You have the film to prove it. I'm sure you will fill us all in wiith the pertinent stats when needed. You always do.
Ego is a funny thing. Being I'm one of those "old" guys that you refered too, I find it increasingly amusing as I get older.
Be comfortable in the fact that in a few short years your preoccupation with the size of your manhood will become less of a fixation.
You won't need anyones affirmation to KNOW you are sporting a tarpaper roll.
And then you'll enjoy these demostrative proclamations as much as I.
It just takes time..
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Originally posted by nopoop
..I might add as an afterthought that the pilots that "really" are head and shoulders above the rest in natural talent and ability in this game are much older than their years.
They know.
And so do we.
Funny how that shakes out..
;)
Makes sense to me:)
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I guess everything has a price. I don't want to improve so far as to affect my health. Ill settle for average :)
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Sax, I deleted that one. I felt that it was so obvious it was unfair to bring up.
I mean..
Well you know what I mean :)
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DMF! Do you remember that sortie? I think I did call to you, didn't I? I just looked at the film but as I thought I didn't start the recorder till later. I've been working at improving my buff downing abilities, so I turned the recorder on when I saw a formation so I could review it later to see what I could have done differently. I didn't see you respawn. The airfield was a complete mess by then, with bish all over it like a cheap suit. I think even all the FH were down. The mannable ack was still there, so I got in that and got about four of them but... ooops :( mustn't go there... Hehe, the "superior pilot" maxim was not meant for myself; it's just something I remember seeing at one of my old flying clubs. I never claimed to have any skill. In fact I could dig out posts on this board where I have openly proclaimed that I have NO skill. I guess I just work with what I have. As for downing buffs, it's just a matter of aiming at the wingtips. And of course, dealing with a formation of buffs is entirely without risk. :aok
As for having an advantage in the P47, does anyone realise how slowly it climbs with 2x1000 hanging off it? And yet that was the configuration I was flying to get to the enemy base.
Hehe, time to give the pot another stir! I thought my last post would rattle a few cages. Funny how Mr. Toad can come out with statements like "I can also get 7 in an F4F-4 in a furball and land. I've been furballing in a 205 and getting 5-6 too. - and nobody bats an eyelid, but if I mention landing a similar number of kills, it's construed as "crowing" and I'll have three or four jumping all over me. Can you say "double standard"? ;):lol No homework at all involved. We all know how you fly.
So why do you want the film so badly? You seem to be condemnatory of my flying methods. And yet all I do is to fly what I like. I also fly how I like, like how I fly, and don't worry about how the other guy flies. It is, after all, a game. It's not so very different from what you counsel the BBS members to do - every time you post. "Your reluctance to post the film is merely further confirmation. "
No, it was to prevent another TAS pissing contest/d**k measuring contest. But I see now you're determined to have that contest.
You can speculate all you like about that sortie. But I don't know why you're that bothered. The only thing that mattered was that it was an even contest between two sides. How does my flying have anything to do with it? It doesn't matter if I got 1 kill or 5 kills or 10 kills... it's all irrelevant to the topic under discussion. The skirmish I mentioned was evenly matched, at least to begin with. Indeed, on my second sortie I was chased by about 4 and did get killed - I've already mentioned that. So the "milkrun/unopposed/vulch" theory doesn't hold water. When the defence had ALL blown their alt to deal with a single plane, they had no reception committee to deal with my incoming squaddies. Now, does that make it an uneven contest? Was that the fault of the map? Was it my fault? :confused:
Nice hero worship, and nice name dropping, Mr. Toad. And now with Nopoop leaping into the fray, I see it's turned into another TAS/BK joint op, of whose enjoyment you have spoken so enthusiastically in months gone by. Maybe I will meet some of you at a con. I've already met some, but the rest won't be hard to recognise. The Mutual Backslappers Society will be the ones with the funny handshakes. :lol ...and the ones who walk into the con room with one trouser leg rolled up!
:rofl
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"I never claimed to have any skill."
Your right ... you just always infer it in every post you make stating the number of kills for this sortie and that sortie along with your Martin Lutheresque speach ... "I HAVE A FILM ..."
"Hehe, time to give the pot another stir! I thought my last post would rattle a few cages. Funny how Mr. Toad can come out with statements like "I can also get 7 in an F4F-4 in a furball and land. I've been furballing in a 205 and getting 5-6 too. - and nobody bats an eyelid, but if I mention landing a similar number of kills, it's construed as "crowing" and I'll have three or four jumping all over me. Can you say "double standard"? "
The difference between you and Toad is that you do it ALL the time. And the differences don't stop there ...
"No, it was to prevent another TAS pissing contest/d**k measuring contest. But I see now you're determined to have that contest."
HAHAHA ... It is always you who lays it on the table first. Last time you layed it on the table, you got called on it ... and caught ... hence the cancelling of the "film release" ... :rofl
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Originally posted by beet1e
DMF! Do you remember that sortie? I think I did call to you, didn't I?
I don't recall off the top of my head. That was a pretty messy evening if you're referring to a couple of nights ago. I did a lot of killing and a lot of dying. Mostly I was cherry picked a bunch while I was indisposed preparing for my dissertation proposal defense on Friday. It's possible that when you warned me, I wasn't even looking at the screen at the time.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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BK's yu guys are awesome and I would appreciate yu returning the compliment please.
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Originally Posted by: nopoop
It's interesting how you finally get to that point. The last couple of tours including this one I've spent getting in WAY to deep. I'm getting the snot beat out of me on a nightly basis.
So I tell myself, dammit were going to land this one, play it smart don't get in too deep.
It's a fine edge. Flying with Hooley last night I found the edge. First time in FUGGING MONTHS.
Playing it safe isn't an option, being on the edge is where it's at for me.
Flying "safe" to me isn't fun. Been there done that. Got ALL pissed off if I died. Found I wasn't having fun.
When I win one I shouldn't it just doesn't get any better.
That explains the snot..
Absolutely right!! Your out numbered, at a disadvantage, blood is pumping, adrenalin flowing and heart is racing all from a game.
This is something the Sky Accountant Cherry Pickers will never understand, until they lose their vanity and take some risks.
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Originally posted by mars01
This is something the Sky Accountant Cherry Pickers will never understand, until they lose their vanity and take some risks.
what amuses me is this type thinks *i'm* the one with a fragile ego.
:rofl
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Slapshot - so this whole thing stems from the fact that I mentioned, in passing, that I RTB'ed with 5 kills? That's *it*? Wouldn't have thought it was any big deal. I haven't cancelled the film release. A cancellation occurs when something was scheduled to occur, but owing to a change of circumstances, will not occur. I never said I was going to post that film. Well, not in the immediate future. So there has been no cancellation. :p hehe, I'm starting to sound like ra!
Sax- LOL! :aok
DMF - no, it was on the 23rd of last month. Around 9:30am here (according to the film timestamp), so you were burning some midnight oil!
Mars01/Nopoop - you're both right - for you. You're enjoying the game the way you want to play it. And you've got your favourite maps for doing that. Now, can you just stretch your imagination a bit.... and try to get your heads round the fact that not everyone else wants to fly/play this game the way you do - OK? They're not wrong either. They're just different. This is something the Sky Accountant Cherry Pickers will never understand, until they lose their vanity and take some risks.
Isn't there an American expression that goes something like "different strokes for different folks"? It applies here. What you need to understand is that what makes YOUR adrenaline rush does not make everyone's adrenaline rush. That's why we have such a diversity of aircraft and vehicles. And they all get used....
...and the pizza map, along with certain other larger maps, offers choices that are either not feasible or else not available on the small, furball maps. The fact that those other choices do not interest YOU as furballers is neither here nor there. Other people pay their $14.95 to play this game - not just furballers. So it's only fair that the map rotation is balanced and fair.
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Mars01/Nopoop - you're both right - for you. You're enjoying the game the way you want to play it. And you've got your favourite maps for doing that. Now, can you just stretch your imagination a bit.... and try to get your heads round the fact that not everyone else wants to fly/play this game the way you do - OK? They're not wrong either. They're just different.
quote:
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This is something the Sky Accountant Cherry Pickers will never understand, until they lose their vanity and take some risks.
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Isn't there an American expression that goes something like "different strokes for different folks"? It applies here. What you need to understand is that what makes YOUR adrenaline rush does not make everyone's adrenaline rush. That's why we have such a diversity of aircraft and vehicles. And they all get used....
...and the pizza map, along with certain other larger maps, offers choices that are either not feasible or else not available on the small, furball maps. The fact that those other choices do not interest YOU as furballers is neither here nor there. Other people pay their $14.95 to play this game - not just furballers. So it's only fair that the map rotation is balanced and fair.
Beet, I just said you guys wouldn't understand. You can fly any way you want. I dont care, siad it a million times before.
You create this misconception, that furballers want everyone to fly a certain way, to bolster your argument but I think the community sees through that.
Add the choice to furball to Pizza Crap and I would love that map too. It's as simple as that. Do you really need all three pizza slices to use as an unopposed cherry pick wonderland? You can have two slices with fields 2 sectors apart if you want, if they made one slice with closer fields all would be fine.
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Originally posted by beet1e
DMF - no, it was on the 23rd of last month. Around 9:30am here (according to the film timestamp), so you were burning some midnight oil!
hehe I can't even remember what I did yesterday, so I certainly don't remember something that happened weeks ago. It sounds like something I'd do though. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by mars01
Beet, I just said you guys wouldn't understand. You can fly any way you want. I dont care, siad it a million times before. You create this misconception, that furballers want everyone to fly a certain way, to bolster your argument but I think the community sees through that.
The entire community? - because the only people who argue with me are the furballers. "Do you really need all three pizza slices to use as an unopposed cherry pick wonderland?"
To provide a balanced map set, I should ask you if you need every corner of the small maps to be a "adrenalin pumping" weed-wacking utopia? Can't we have some of the fields on those maps spaced out a little more, in the same way as Fester amended his first map?
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The entire community? - because the only people who argue with me are the furballers.
So you are saying that you finally accept that I don't want people to fly a certain way???????
Also, lets stay in context, when I say community I am speaking of the community on the BBS since that is where we are. Who else is going to argue with you. Your not removing the cherry pickers choice your removing the furballers choice. Why would you expect the other cherry pickers to argue with you, when you are their poster boy.:D
To provide a balanced map set, I should ask you if you need every corner of the small maps to be a "adrenalin pumping" weed-wacking utopia? Can't we have some of the fields on those maps spaced out a little more, in the same way as Fester amended his first map?
Uhhhh They are already. The majority of the fields on the small maps are a sector or more apart. Funny you cant see that.
Since the small maps are from older days most of the bases are a sector or more apart. The only map that has bases close enough is Festers.
Also, I thought your biggest concern about the small maps was, they were too small. Now the bases are too close. lol.
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Mars - none of the original HTC maps will change. The pizza map will not change. I doubt that Trinity will change any more. Fester's original map might change a little, and then we have the new one to look forward to.
But overall, I do not expect significant changes on any maps. Now if only the rotation could be changed back to what it was 6-9 months ago, whereby all maps were given a full week, except the small maps which shared a week. I would even accept two weeks of small maps (what we have now) if the other maps could be guaranteed to stay up for their full week, instead of getting reset out of circulation from Sunday to Friday. I was gutted when that happened to Pizza last week. :mad:
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Originally posted by beet1e
The entire community? - because the only people who argue with me are the furballers.
Well, I certainly dont fit the bill as the "Furball" Crowd. I do make myself dizzy wizzing circles near the ground from time to time. Heck, I even enjoy it now and then.
I list myself to be more of a Sky Accountant, Have the Advantage, Country General, Tool Shed complex killing type of guy. I try to use all styles of play, except Im not much for GVs.
Yet, I can not seem to agree with you on Pizza vs Small Fields, Pizza is not a good map for all types of play. It is just plain boring. I look for other things for the squad to do when Pizza is up.
Everyone in my squad dislikes Pizza as well. We have a broad range of pilots, Yet they all dread seeing it up. a small group of 40 or so guys, But that sampling is probably closer to the truth than what your selling.
No Sir aint buying any of it.. Is it possible that the Furball crowd is right??
As for Map rotation (thread) I agree that each map should have equal time...
Week)
1) NdIsles
2) Trinity
3) Mindano
4) Big Isles
5) Uterus
6) FesterMA
7) Baltic
8) Pizza
9) Ozkanas
Each Map is up for a week, reguardless of resets. Every Nine Weeks we could all have our favorite map. Is that what you wanted Beetle?
I think I should bring my chair and cooler back to this thread for a while. ;)
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Originally posted by Grimm
As for Map rotation (thread) I agree that each map should have equal time...
Week)
1) NdIsles
2) Trinity
3) Mindano
4) Big Isles
5) Uterus
6) FesterMA
7) Baltic
8) Pizza
9) Ozkanas
Each Map is up for a week, reguardless of resets. Every Nine Weeks we could all our favorite map. Is that what you wanted Beetle?
I'm sure Beet will agree. He's said many times in this thread all he's asking is that "the map rotation is balanced and fair."
I can go along with this system too.... so there. Problem solved.
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Each Map is up for a week, reguardless of resets. Every Nine Weeks we could all our favorite map.
Sounds good to me, I can take the good with the bad.
Now I'd like this opportunity being all of you are gathered to explain the snot all over me.
You see..
I have the reverse down. Have the con in view throughout the reverse the majority of time.
The problem I have, that I can't resolve is making adjustments to my flight path so that by the last view I have before the frontal view, the con is centered in it crossing my screen. So that when I switch to the frontal view he flys right into my sights...
We're talking alot of snot here fellas..
..and I'm stuffed up tonight
And Sax, youz guyz is da best.
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Originally posted by Toad
I'm sure Beet will agree. He's said many times in this thread all he's asking is that "the map rotation is balanced and fair."
I can go along with this system too.... so there. Problem solved.
:lol
Nice to end on a humourous note! Very soon (from the end of Saturday) there is to be an extended period of beet1e toodle-pippage. It's that trip to FNC I told you about, Mr. Toad. So I'll be out of your hair for about a week!
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You're not in my hair Beet.
Like a lowly stagehand, I sort of enjoy running the spotlight as you interpretively dance across the stage of the AH BBS, exposing your derriere for one and all.
Bravo!
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Originally posted by Toad
You're not in my hair Beet.
Like a lowly stagehand, I sort of enjoy running the spotlight as you interpretively dance across the stage of the AH BBS, exposing your derriere for one and all.
Bravo!
:lol
This has been our best yet! :D
What's this word "derriere"? I think you might have meant "derrière". ;) That's OK, I was just being un mal à derrière. :)
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Last week we had a small map (baltic) from Sunday to Friday. Then came Big Isles. This week it's back to small maps. Again. Uterus. Even if it gets reset, another small map will take it's place.
Logged on just now - here's what I saw.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/ahss109.jpg)
People whine about the "spread out front line" on Pizza. But this ^ is what happens when the front line is just a base or two. Gangbangs, numerical supremacy smashdowns, 25 % fuel porkage...
... but every cloud has a silver lining, in this case TWO silver linings. - I've borrowed two DVDs from a friend - Shawshank Redemption & Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.
- My holiday starting Sunday means that I will miss small maps week! My timing is perfect! :D
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Originally posted by beet1e
:lol
This has been our best yet! :D
What's this word "derriere"? I think you might have meant "derrière". ;) That's OK, I was just being un mal à derrière. :)
hahem ... "mal au derrière" I give to both of you a A- ... peut mieux faire ;)
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Originally posted by beet1e
... But this ^ is what happens when the front line is just a base or two. Gangbangs, numerical supremacy smashdowns, 25 % fuel porkage...[/list] [/B]
This is the fault of the player base and not necessarily that of the map.
HTC gave the MA players free will. With it most choose to avoid having to fight another human like the plague.
I had always felt that HT's idea to have a "war" with base capture was a good idea to draw players away from their nests, to seek out and engage other players, was a good one. Now, I think this "war" has become the very reason most players avoid other players or if they do they do so in a horde.
The war is easier to win if you don't actually have to fight anybody.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Last week we had a small map (baltic) from Sunday to Friday. Then came Big Isles. This week it's back to small maps. Again. Uterus. Even if it gets rest, another small map will take it's place.
Logged on just now - here's what I saw.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/ahss109.jpg)
People whine about the "spread out front line" on Pizza. But this ^ is what happens when the front line is just a base or two. Gangbangs, numerical supremacy smashdowns, 25 % fuel porkage...
... but every cloud has a silver lining, in this case TWO silver linings. - I've borrowed two DVDs from a friend - Shawshank Redemption & Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.
- My holiday starting Sunday means that I will miss small maps week! My timing is perfect! :D
[/B]
So you logged on and only saw this specific portion of the map? Did you notice the large green bar at the bottom? I wonder what the rest of the map looked like. In what way does this picture help make your point?
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Originally posted by beet1e
[BWhat's this word "derriere"? I think you might have meant "derrière". [/B]
No, I meant derriere as in:
Derriere - From Websters Online Dictionary (http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/english/de/derriere.html)
Derriere
Definition: Derriere
Derriere
Noun
1. The fleshy part of the human body that you sit on.
Source: WordNet 1.7.1 Copyright © 2001 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.
Date "derriere" was first used in popular English literature: sometime before 1910. (references)
Synonyms: Derriere
Synonyms: arse (n), bellybutton (n), backside (n), behind (n), bottom (n), bum (n), buns (n), butt (n), buttocks (n), can (n), fanny (n), fundament (n), hind end (n), hindquarters (n), keister (n), nates (n), posterior (n), prat (n), rear (n), rear end (n), rump (n), seat (n), stern (n), tail (n), tail end (n), tooshie (n), tush (n). (additional references)
" A little "Moon River" if you please Maestro!"
Beet! You're on again!
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Originally posted by NUKE
So you logged on and only saw this specific portion of the map? Did you notice the large green bar at the bottom? I wonder what the rest of the map looked like. In what way does this picture help make your point?
I logged at about the same time as Beetle like he said it was a 2 options map :
be ganbanged on the north.
be ganbanger on the south.
nothing very sexy :(
(and no I didn't speak about the 25% fuel :) ... yet)
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furious... I believe that more people fight if the maps are early/mid war plane friendly. that means closer fields... If you make the maps late war cherry picking, sky accountant friendly... you will get people doing the only thing they can do... hiding from each other and porking resourses in fast planes... Add some questionable "strat" and resupply features... a gaggle of newbies that "were somebody" somewhere else and voila! timid unfun gameplay... well... unfun for those who enjoy a lot of action.
lazs
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Originally posted by straffo
I logged at about the same time as Beetle like he said it was a 2 options map :
be ganbanged on the north.
be ganbanger on the south.
nothing very sexy :(
(and no I didn't speak about the 25% fuel :) ... yet)
Tu as raison, mon ami! :aok
Nuke - I displayed as much as the map clipboard would allow in one shot. Much of what is not shown here is fields which are not front line.
Mr. Toad! derriere is not in my Oxford English Dictionary. Websters is American. What would they know? Muhahahaha! (http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/jester.gif)
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you do NOT have to fly from front line bases... how do you think the rooks are always at 20 and 30k??? And the great thing about a small map... even from non-frontline bases it's still a shorter flight than on pizza to get to combat.
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;)
The film (1.65MB .ZIP) (http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/film189p47d25pizza5k.zip)
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Originally posted by A_Clown
Size doesnt matter.......................
Especially when the MA is so full of STAT potatos, too afraid to actually engage in a fight they might not win. Always making sure to fly in large groups of LA7s & spits with alt.
I always have to spend a few minutes trying to antipate where there will be an actual battle. Often once I actually find a battle, it is short lived, as1 side gains momentum with huge numbers of alted la7s, & the other side gets outnumbered & looks for an easier fight. YAWN!
Doesn't seem like all that long ago, people were looking for a FUN time flying a combat sim. Now it seems like its mostly alot of unpaid-professionals, fightin as score-potatos trying to impress some unknown score-pimp.
A_Clown
i agree with you sir, except in the remark about spitfires. i am myself, a spit lover/dweeb, but not becuase i cant fly anything else. i love the spit becuase of two reasons:
1: im brittish. enough said
2: becuase it is, for me, the ultimate furball machine. too slow to run away. too manouverable to be an easy kill.
and i live for the furballs and smaller fights.
in my defence i would say that i rarely if ever fly my little dweeb plane above 10k and almost exclusively i fly it alone.
so my objection is with your comment that spits are score potatos and strat monkeys. this is simply not true.
LA7 is a plane which is also considered a lame ride. whilst i agree many a newbie, or unskilled pilot may fly this bastad plane, we must accept that there are certain players that have made it an art form and therefore deserve respect for doing so. notable in my limited experience, one such pilot is 'Spazzter'
The Red Barron in WW1 flew in the Fokker Dr7 tri-plane mostly or the Albatros bi-plane. both of which were certainly in what we might call the dweeb catagory, but he flew in such a way that you knew he could outfly you with feathers stuck to his arms and a 9mm pistol!
and finaly may i point out that there are an equal amount of dweeb straters that use ponys, lightnings, corsairs and jugs for the same strat based stupidity.
my point in all this being: all planes are dweeb planes, its the pilot that makes them not.
I loved your bit about the score potatos and pimps. well funny! :)
''REAL MEN DOGFIGHT C-47s'' - Estes
enough said :aok
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...and now the creeping process has ended. Read the title of this thread once more. From having small maps 20% of the time, we now have small maps 100% of the time. Oh oh, I hear you say. HTC have their hands full what with new patches, fixes etc... Hmmm. Funny how all the small maps got converted to AH2, but not pizza, big isles, trinity...
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From a long time ago....................but the problems still seem to be the same, found some of the replies still ring true
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:headscratch: Hmm Only thing I am thinking is will this be locked by Monday 6.00am Central time or sooner?
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:headscratch: Hmm Only thing I am thinking is will this be locked by Monday 6.00am Central time or sooner?
One of the reasons we study history is so we do not try and make the same mistakes., can't hurt to review what was done in the past and what was done to improve things
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From a long time ago....................but the problems still seem to be the same, found some of the replies still ring true
What problems?
That 600 players dont fit on a small map well, agreed, but irrelevant as we no longer have 600 players at prime time.
That fuel porking to 25% hurts flying fighters, agreed, but again irrelevant as fuel cant be porked that low any more.
That hordes rule/run the fronts, agreed, but HTC doesn't seem to want to force a stop to that type of play as the mains are a "sandbox" and ALL types of game play are allowed..... to a point :noid
If you want to play by yourself/squad to roll undefended bases, open a custom arena and have at it. Large maps at this time with the lower numbers we have in game is going to give you spots all along long fronts with no defense.
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Holy necro bump batman
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Locked for violation of rule #10.