Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: LePaul on December 14, 2001, 12:39:00 AM
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Sights like these become common place....
(http://www.checksix.net/ripsnort.jpg)
<S>
Gotta love seeing a MASS of people upping at once!
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Yep, he rarely dares to fly without few escorts...
;)
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WTF? ROFLMAO
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It's the only time during the week that the Knights have any sort of organization. :D
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yep...nothing like organization to make for some good gangbangs.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs1:
yep...nothing like organization to make for some good gangbangs.
lazs
Organization my ass! :rolleyes:
It's just human nature to flood to the weak side, or jump into a crowd. It's the same principle that turns a minor 2 car fender bender into a 5 Mile traffic back up.
I happened to get some private messages from Ripsnort. I suspect it was not long after this pic would have taken place.
I noticed the HUGE jump in the radar bar and decided to run up a 262 for a little scouting and distraction. Killed an F4, 2 B17s, and disrupted about 20 fighters in the first run before died.
I relaunched and popped another couple B17s. Then Rip comes on and comments on how I am up for some easy kills and how they have 2x 262s hunting for my ass.
I also told him I wasn't out for kills and that my gunnery in that POS Jet actually sucked. I was just there to distract as many as possible to give the Rooks a chance.(too bad my Fellow Rooks were to HELL bent on the other end of the map to save their own HQ)
Then Rip says to me, (in so many words) "Not to worry, we are not after HQ or base captures, just doing some vulching."
Yeah right! I'm not THAT stupid.
I bellowed out on CH2 for help, but very few Rooks even bothered to look. (I think they squelch me) ;/
So, we ended up losing much ground and radar capability for the hours that followed.
Rip even complemented me and suggested that I come fly with the Knights.
Thanks Rip!
Viper
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hmm, what's funny....is Rip is going one way, while the gaggle of bangerz are going the other way? ;)
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Well you know Rip, he never could get the right runway......get him to the right field and you're doing well.
:D
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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LOL Swoop! I was in 262 that sortie I believe, lost it on a friggin disco! (Arrgh!)
<S> all the Knits that joined up, that was fun, Yes, I told SKviper that we were just banging it because I knew he was a 262, as soon as I told him that, he started climbing, and our goon snuck right under his nose and captured the field. :D I love disinformation, works well!~ ;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
...Yes, I told SKviper that we were just banging it because I knew he was a 262, as soon as I told him that, he started climbing, and our goon snuck right under his nose and captured the field. :D I love disinformation, works well!~ ;)
Don't kid yourself...I didn't climb a bit!
I was towing a N1K2, F6, and Mossie around like little puppies wanting a nipple from a sore mother! :D
I didn't get the goon because I wasn't looking for one. I just hoped that since I had 1/4 of the Knit force following me that the other Rooks would find the goon.
Your disinformation was read as disinformation. I was 99.99% sure I wouldn't see another 262. I killed another buff and 2 more fighters after you told me that. :D
What worked for you was the fact that the Rooks stayed north, playing in the candy shop!
Viper
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Damn! And I missed squad night. Looking good rats/knights ;).
Zippatuh
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On a side note...
Look around the border of the base....its a blue line...anyone else getting those on their displays? I get those all over the place.
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These types of strike forces are usually directed at undefended fields.
AKDejaVu
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Would seem pretty stupid to attack a strongly defended field. Maybe you would recommend everyone anounce on channel 1 which field they are going to attack next. Of course they are directed at undefended fields...
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Frost.. take a pill. Maybe then you'll begin to grasp the lunacy of "organized attacks" where 1/3 of a country attacks one undefended field.
I'm sure there is some sense of purpose and accomplishment attatched somewhere in there... but I can't for the life of me figure out why.
Maybe its just that so much of the MA is so busy doing nothing that its exciting to simply do something... no matter how little resistance you meet.
AKDejaVu
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BTW.. the main goal of a mission is to be successful... so the likelyhood of finding the base with the highest chance of success is pretty great.
Kudos to those that plan missions that are risky/daring/away-from-the-norm. I've seen HQ raids by typhoons that flew in on the deck... base attacks by flights of zekes... 4 plane strikes at 4 bases simultaneously... many different things... original things.
"Lets take 40 people to the nearest undefended base" is not risky. It is not impressive. There are a couple squads running around the arena that really enjoy doing this. You'll know who they are when you see 10 lancs, 10 C-47s, 10 typhoons and 10 Mossies hitting a field with 2 defenders.
AKDejaVu
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We can't all be master tacticians. :rolleyes:
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Actually, Ak, Rips mission's are the highlight of the game for me. I'm not one for furballing, and prefer an organized, controlled mission with a stated objective.
You're mistaken in your assumption that most missions are against undefended targets. Quite the contrary is true. The minute the dar lights up with the mission, we face heavy opposition. I've yet to fly on a Rip mission where I've not fought tooth and nail to hit the target.
Whether or not the rest of the arena is bored, I cannot comment. All I know is Rips built quite a reputation for being a good leader, and strategist (Even if he never gets the runway right). I'd fly with him anytime.
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LOL! Um... this isn't a critique of Rip's strategy skills. Strat is completely irrelivant when it comes to hitting one base.
Also, there is a reason so many people participate in the missions... I'd have a tendancy to say they like them. They like them so much they are willing to completely abandon many other aspects of the game to focus 1/3 of a country's forces on one relatively undefended target.
Oh... sure there is usually a defense that comes up. But that defense is not there when the mission is planned and launched... and it usually isn't even there until 40 red dots show on the bases dot dar. Then you have 10 people scrambling to climb to half the alt of the incoming attackers.
Most of my "bad attitude" about missions in the MA right now stem from the concept that, as a rule, they need to be planned for the highest chance of success (most men vs fewest opponents). Everyone thumps their chest afterwards and clammors about how great missions are and how well planned this one was... and so on. Its downright silly.
How about... "there's only a few of us, but we have been tasked with making an impact..." type missions... planning to go up against the odds, not play them. Pull that stuff off (I'm sure rip has done a few of these too...) and then be proud of planning an organization... because then it accomplished something without having to resort to tossing 40 people at something.
40 planes launching from a field merrits a "neeto! that's 40 planes launching from a field"... nothing more.
AKDejaVu
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AKDeja you really are a miserable sod :D
when these missions actually start with a decent number THEY ARE FUN to fly in.ok maybe not when on the receiving end but then thats not my concern.
The more missions i see or make the more i enjoy this game.
Deja you say the mission strips a 3rd of the countries players but guess what WE CAPTURE BASES! What do you do al day in AH? furball?
If you want to define a waste of a countries resourses in planes/pilots then a mass furball between 2 bases is probably the BIGGEST waste of all.
I say <S> the mission builders,they are by no means easy to get filled up.
I would agree with you AKDeja if these missions involved no thought or were pointless but you are wrong.Sometimes the ONLY way to break out from 2 countries ganging up on yours is to ORGANISE a break out capture or mass sweep.
I think your attitude to what others like to do in this game or what they like to participate in, including flying in or making missions stinks mate.stop being a SOURPUS' :D
Missions: they dont happen all that often and when they do I and many others enjoy them.
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Actually, AK, you said it yourself. The key to a mission is success. Of course, flying against an under-defended field is boring. I may as well go play MS-FS, for that matter.
But I have to defend Rip in saying:
1) His missions are planned to make an impact on the overall map, regardless of enemy defenses. So one mission may go without many bogs, while another will be awash in a sea of enemies. The point is, the mission is planned for success, to make a difference in the game, and regardless of whether or not the target is defended. I've never been on a mission where the plan was to simply grab an undefended base, just because it was undefended.
If the enemy chooses not to up a serious defence, that's not our fault.
2)Launching a small attack, or a suicide run just to launch a mission is contradictory to what you said. It's hardly planning a mission for success. I've flown many sorties against the odds, in missions and out, and it quickly becomes apparent that my sortie would be better served elsewhere. I've no problem fighting into a sector, but I don't bother with overwhelming odds, as it's merely a waste of my time, and my coutries resourses.
Finally, I must agree that one mission of enormous size drains resources from other fronts. However, you cannot blame people for wanting to get in on Rips missions. As I said in my last post, they tend to be alot of fun, whether or not they are succesful For me, personally, it beats the hell outta flying a lone lanc to drop a base that will re-up before I even land.
Call me Amish, or a sky accoutant, but I prefer to fly for results. It's just my style, and I don't expect anyone else to fly with the same disposition.
Sorry for the length of this post.
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Deja you say the mission strips a 3rd of the countries players but guess what WE CAPTURE BASES!
Ah... OK... doesn't matter that 2 people could most likely have done the same thing. Just sit back and congradulate yourself on using the right amount of resources to accomplish the task. :rolleyes:
One of the primary flaws in the MA right now is a simple concept: excess is best.
Excess in regards to offense. Excess in regards to defense. Excess in regards to what is needed where.
- Respawning excessively
- Bringing 40 planes to hit an undefended base
- 10 planes hovering over a PT spawn point waiting for another boat to spawn (see first point)
- 8 planes chasing 1 con
- 20 people responding to a call for help after the attack has been fought off and nobody is left (wow.. amazing how fast "defending" gets boring when done like that)
- buffs at 35k still hanging out after bombing a target
- 10 dorks chasing 1 buff at 35k after he's bombed the target
The list could go on. "I'm going to do whatever I like a whole lot". Yep.. that's a winning formula. No need for variety here... everyone please disperse in one group.
What do you do all day in AH? furball?
No. And I definately don't spend all day in the arena under the illusion that flying along with 40 people to capture a base in hopes that I can get at least one ground target or spawning aircraft before the capture is a blast.
If you want to define a waste of a countries resourses in planes/pilots then a mass furball between 2 bases is probably the BIGGEST waste of all.
Ah... the argument over which is a bigger waste of resources.
Here's something I teach my techs: If you are confronted about something and have to resort to "well... what about them!" for a defense... you've lost already.
I've made my points on endless furballing pretty clear. But this thread isn't about that.
I would agree with you AKDeja if these missions involved no thought or were pointless but you are wrong.
I never said they required no thought.
I never said they were pointless.
I said they were excessive.
Sometimes the ONLY way to break out from 2 countries ganging up on yours is to ORGANISE a break out capture or mass sweep.
Wow.. even you have to resort to using the word "sometimes". Of course, this is a tactic only used by a country that is in the hole. Its never used by two other countries to put one in the hole. Yep... its so saintly its frightening.
Its not all the fault of mission planners, nor participants or even furballers. Its the fault of a strat model based on one objective and zero guidance. I can't even really blame HTC for that... because I don't think many people actually want that. Its basically a no-win situation.
I say <S> the mission builders,they are by no means easy to get filled up.
I say <S> to the mission builders that take the time to plan practical missions. <S> to the mission builders that know what "too much" means. <S> to the mission builders that are so good at planning these types of missions that filling them is not a problem.
The tone of the original thread is that <S> and success are deserved purely based on how big your missions are. It is flawed to the core. Its like saying that the 90 DMD that fly missions together make them the best squad in AH... all because their missions are so huge.
And Muck,
Making the missions relevant and practical is the key. When Rip does that then <S>. The gist behind this pick is the shear number of people participating makes it a success. I'll disagree with that forever. Hell.. more would have been accomplished with a pic of 4 Typhoons flying in formation with 4 Bombers in the background... or 4 P-51s escorting 2 lancs.... or three flights of attack craft on the horizon. Make em emersive. Make em practical. Make them smart. If you can only do this by using huge ammounts of aircraft... then what does that say?
AKDejaVu
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Deja, did you use 10 lb or 15lb test on your line? :D
edit to be on topic: Rip missions are usually pretty fun, sometimes there's no resistance, sometimes there's a lot of resistance. The ones I've been involved in had nothing to do with which base is the least defended, it's always been which base will help us out the most to attack.
[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: Nifty ]
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I agree with Hazed, DjV is a miserable sod.
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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That may be swoop, but at least I stick to the topic of the thread.
You can stick to your drive by slingings... well at least I give you credit for finally sticking with your original ID to do it.
AKDejaVu
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Agreed, on that final point, AK.
If you can get the job done with 8 planes, you have planned and executed a truly superior mission. I think this goes without saying.
IMHO the ultimate achievment for a mission planner would be to launch and coordinate several smaller, simultaneous attacks on adjacent bases. Though difficult to plan, and even harder to execute, this type of attack can be crippling to the enemy. I'd love to see more of these.
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BTW, none of my posts here are intended to imply any kind of "YOU STRAT potatoS!" message.
Its just that, to me, the idea of 1/3 people from one country doing anything at just one point on the map is silly. Whether its a 40 man attack on a field... or 40 people furballing at it.
"The masses have spoken"... that doesn't mean I can't disagree.
AKDejaVu
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Theres a reason people join Rip's Sorties....
First off he has earned respect. You know how many times "newbies" scream for a goony, I take one to find city still up, enemy hi cap, and no friendlies once i arrive. Rip's been around the block,and i trust him.
His sorties are fun and usually grab a fun group of people i don't mind flying with.
Alot of people join his sorties , so Ussually we accomplish the objective.
He doesn't SCREAM the sortie is up and belittle everyone that doesn't join.
He gives a freindly countdown till "wheels up" and you get plenty of time to finish your fly and land/auger.
But then again..., i could be wrong :)
NUTTZ
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I never thought of that Deja.
No wonder I find big organized missions boring -- because I never see action.
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Ok, 2 observatrions I want to make here.
1) I remember Ripsnort organising these big missions which I liked very much!
2) LePaul, you must have a very fast system. What resolution are you running there? I could only run the minimum 640x370 otherwise my framerates were really crap. :( That Lancaster looks bootiful! :cool:
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Originally posted by FlyingDuckSittingSwan:
Ok, 2 observatrions I want to make here.
1) I remember Ripsnort organising these big missions which I liked very much!
2) LePaul, you must have a very fast system. What resolution are you running there? I could only run the minimum 640x370 otherwise my framerates were really crap. :( That Lancaster looks bootiful! :cool:
Actually, my frames suck...only get 20ish, high 20s on a fluke. My video card is a Voodoo 5500 with Full Screen Anti Aliasing cranked up to 2x mode. Really smooths the lines out while giving me a few FPS.
hehe, and you guys wonder why I fly buffs...when all you get is 20fps on average, them single engine jobbies are kinda outta the question
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Always have good memories of Ripsnorts mission's always well put together and alot of players join due to his reputation in the arena.
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Originally posted by LePaul:
Actually, my frames suck...only get 20ish, high 20s on a fluke. My video card is a Voodoo 5500 with Full Screen Anti Aliasing cranked up to 2x mode. Really smooths the lines out while giving me a few FPS.
hehe, and you guys wonder why I fly buffs...when all you get is 20fps on average, them single engine jobbies are kinda outta the question
Well I have a Voodoo 3, so you can imagine. :mad:
I tried some buffs but if you're not used to flying those big things, they can be intimidating. It felt more like the buff was taking me for a ride, not me taking it. Another thing was...where the hell do you sit in a buff? In the middle??? :confused:
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
I say <S> to the mission builders that take the time to plan practical missions. <S> to the mission builders that know what "too much" means. <S> to the mission builders that are so good at planning these types of missions that filling them is not a problem.
The tone of the original thread is that <S> and success are deserved purely based on how big your missions are. It is flawed to the core. Its like saying that the 90 DMD that fly missions together make them the best squad in AH... all because their missions are so huge.
And Muck,
Making the missions relevant and practical is the key. When Rip does that then <S>. The gist behind this pick is the shear number of people participating makes it a success. I'll disagree with that forever. Hell.. more would have been accomplished with a pic of 4 Typhoons flying in formation with 4 Bombers in the background... or 4 P-51s escorting 2 lancs.... or three flights of attack craft on the horizon. Make em emersive. Make em practical. Make them smart. If you can only do this by using huge ammounts of aircraft... then what does that say?
AKDejaVu
Ahhh AKDeja I must admit i see your point in terms of what would be the best thing for looks and practicality but you are forgetting one simple thing AKD. The fact that the large missions are generally filled with inexperienced players or those that are attracted to the mission purely for the fact that theres so many flying.What you suggest, ie the mission with 4 jabo 6 bombers and a fighter escort are exactly my favourite type of mission but I have found that its far more difficult to fill these types of missions because once you have filled the fighters say, no one wants to join and be the only bomber etc.I have tried to counter this by waiting in the flight that needs filling then switching to another so who everjoins has others in but it isnt easy.
As you know if you set a mission for 20 minutes time you get no one in it until the last 5 minutes.So inevitably you scream for c47s or fighter cover or more bombers as the damn thing rolls.
What Im saying is basically what you are saying really.You say its really a game feature rather than the fault of the mission builders and Im glad you said it as what i was trying to say was planning and playing/executing smaller more defined tasks is really a squad night possibility, In MA if im lucky i get enough players I know to sort of lead each of the flights so i can make more complex missions but its not always possible with players I dont know who may never have flown the aircraf ive put them in.
This is the time when making a group of 20 typhoons is the only way for a quiet life!! you just tell em the alt you want and say 'KILL' when near the base! :D
on your last point i couldnt agree more AKDeja and my last larger mission did indeed have many elements planned in. I had a jabo for acks, which attacked 30 seconds ahead of low level lancs! a small hi cover fighter force and 2 small groups of fighters, heading to the nearest enemy bases either side.
it worked because of numbers? I guess, but hey, I took the time to plan it and drum up the interest and if someone thanks you for giving them a good game for 1/2 hour im pretty pleased. (btw 1 flight wouldnt fill at all :mad: )
When i saw this thankyou to ripsnort i thought it was a nice gesture, when you atttacked it for being ignorent of what constitutes a 'good mission' i thought you was a miserable sod ;) sorry for misunderstanding what you meant but hey youre STILL a miserable sod :)
those poor 'techs' :D
[ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]
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Well first off im there in every mission Rip puts up cus they be pimp. The best one he has made was a C47 raid on bases. US knights got a reset becuase i made a c47 raid on the last base and caped it for the WIN!!!! i was so very happy. but i would of never thought of it if Rip didnt do it.
THNX RIP!
your my hero :p :p :rolleyes: :p :rolleyes: :p :mad:
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Hey guys, thks for the compliments, but remember, its you guys who make it fun, I just post them...Zigrat and Caveman used to throw up some wild missions in beta days, historic planesets etc. I've just continued their tradition once they left knit.
Incidently, my missions are never just capture, we had fighter sweep missions about 1 out of every 5 sorties, and PT boat missions, CV attack missions, tank missions..the more variety, the more fun it is IMO.
<S>