Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: VISCONTI on August 25, 2000, 11:55:00 AM
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Is incredible how a flight sim can have a plane modelled like the 202.
Is a complete unarmed plane, these MG are nothing, only graphical effects.
"... firing on a spitV from 120y glued on his tail after 2+ seconds of fire only smoke..."
(whit c205 i need less than 40 ammo to destroy spits from that distance)
202 is MA unusefull
202 is Scenarios unusefull
(no ammo to fight, i wonder how the real 4' stormo in Afrika killed 100+ fighters)
I'm really bored, how many time before someone can give an answer on MG questions????????????????????????????
Data about the 12.7 and the 7.7mm hare not simple to find, was all destroied or steal at the end of the war.
We have gun camera, pictures of ammo and ammo type, what do u need?????
People continue to ask for late war and uber cannons aircraft, well this is not the game i was thinking to support when i signed up, but i can live whit it,
i cant live whit the MG models. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
Waiting!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
PS: sry for my aggressive post, i'm not a good diplomatic.
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Erm... there is nothing forcing anyone to fly this plane.
There is nothing encouraging anyone to fly it either.
Who cares if it is there or not?
AKDejaVu
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umm its too good
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If you don't like it so much, there is a very simple answer - DON'T FLY IT.
Why delete it? If it is that bad (seems fine to me) then just use it in scenarios where appropriate.
But why squeak about limiting the available planes? Again, if you don't like it, don't fly it.
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Renfield, how many time u have used c202 in MA????
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I doubt in your opinion." (seems fine to me)"
Anyway the problem is the MG model!
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heheh it IS true that AXIS mg is a waste of weight, too bad there is not someway to NOT take it <Grin>
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I'm against removing any plane but one has to wonder why it was ever selected as a plane to be added here.
It's only uses are historical events.
Mox
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Originally posted by VISCONTI:
Renfield, how many time u have used c202 in MA????
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I doubt in your opinion...
Ah, so I see you have been looking over my shoulder every time I fly, have you? You don't have a clue what I fly in the MA. I have flown the 202 - not many times, but I have flown it. So don't try to call me a liar. That is one thing I'm not.
And my point (and others) remains. If you don't like the 202, simply don't fly it. Quit your squeaking about something that just doesn't matter.
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I flew the 202 the other night for kicks, and I managed eight kills in three flights. The plane's a stinker, don't get me wrong, but it's not THAT bad. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The fact that it's underestimated is one of its greatest strengths.
-- Todd/DMF
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Now you know what it's like to go against a chog with the panzers peashooter Visconti.
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202 would be fine if we had some Hurricanes and Spitfire Mk. II's and P-40's to fight. It is a very useful scenario plane and I'm glad it's here.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-25-2000).]
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Rounds required to destroy a fighter hanger:
Browning M2 .50in: ~1300rnds
UB 12.7mm: ~1300rnds
Breda-SAFAT 12.7mm: ~1600rnds
MG 131 13mm: ~1600rnds
Relative rnds reqd
M2: 100%
UB: ~100%
B-S: ~81%
MG 131: ~81%
Now here's what I find interesting:
Relative KE
M2: 100%
UB: 94%
B-S: 58%
MG 131: 50%
whit c205 i need less than 40 ammo to destroy spits from that distance
Hmmm...MG 151/20 20mm rnds to kill hgr: ~400rnds, relative to M2: ~325%
So you would need to hit with 160rnds(7s burst) of B-S 12.7mm to do as much "damage" as the MG 151/20 can do with 40rnds(1.6s burst).
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Interesting post juzz thx.
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Visconti, if your use to flying the C.205 with its cannons, I can see why your frustrated with the C.202
But to be honest, all MG planes are frustrating when compared to the cannons in this game.
For example if you fly a F4U-1C for a while, then switch to the 4 MG P-51, it will feel the exact same.
The trick to getting kills with any MG armed aircraft is to fire sustained bursts at convergence.
Stick with it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Originally posted by Vermillion:
Visconti, if your use to flying the C.205 with its cannons, I can see why your frustrated with the C.202
But to be honest, all MG planes are frustrating when compared to the cannons in this game.
For example if you fly a F4U-1C for a while, then switch to the 4 MG P-51, it will feel the exact same.
The trick to getting kills with any MG armed aircraft is to fire sustained bursts at convergence.
Stick with it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Actually the trick is to get between 100 and 200 yards, and don't let off the trigger till it 'splodes.
I've sawed wings off with the 202 before, it's actually got decent guns if you get close enough.
- Jig
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I agree whit what u say guys but,
when i fly with 205 i usually open fire below 400-450y and a single burst give me a kill.
when i fly whit 202 i try to close below 250y before open fire.
The problem is that a single burst at 70y did no damage at all (several time against spits after an hard turn fight).
I dont expect to get a kill whit a single burst of MG, what i cant understand is why u need more than 4-5 sec. of fire to damage an airplane (below 250y) when whit cannon u can wipe out a wing from 700y whit a single burst (i remember a fight against an Fw190 (kirin was the pilot) and i wiped out his wing from 700y).
I really lost interest on this game, i'm sorry to bore you whit my post.
No future for me in this game at these condition. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
sry again
VISCONTI
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If power of italians 12.7mm is anywhere close to germans 13mm, I'll begin questioning the accuracy of pilot.
What comes to low caliber machineguns, well.. those are unuseful against B-17 - you can waste 1000 rounds of 7.92mm in one spot of B-17 from +-50yds, still not downing it - and fighters can take quite alot punishment even if you hit the canopy area like mad from 50 yards. (don't say I don't have experience!)
Ohhh.. I wish back those 7mm MGs that were back in the beta times, 200 bullets enough to chop wings of B-17 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Back then if I flew Spitfrie, I used .303 instead of 12.7mm - thicker wall of lead with same kill power / time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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When I fly G-10 with 30mm I usually open fire from 150-200y (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
So what's the problem again ?
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why would anyone want to get rid of it?
it isnt hurting a thing, and maybe even liked by a few people?
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Sorry Visc, I dont agree (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Instead, HTC should add 1941-42 aircraft. Late war plane sets are boring and not well suited for a MA, IMHO: all HO, cannons, alt-monkeys and people running away with their 350-400mph (on the deck) kites. Moreover 1944-45 scenarios are much less interesting.
I am really missing some theatres no one ever modeled, like the Russian and North Africa ones. And we need an RPS as well. Sorry for the rant but with my WB account closed I really miss my 109E, Der Kanal, the Desert Air War and even those funny Hurricanes and Spitfires MkI-II (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
GATT
4°Stormo Caccia
"One cannot but admire the cold-blooded
bravery and enterprise of these Italians."
SIR ANDREW CUNNINGHAM, Admiral of the Fleet
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 08-29-2000).]
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The 202 is a truly beautiful plane....i enjoy flying it but find the guns "hard work", i agree that if we had more TnB A/C then it would be a fine fighter, at the moment it realy is in a class of its own, and a somewhat old class, compaired to the mid to late war fighters. If and when? we get a full plane selection, which includes classics like Ju87B, Spit Mk1, Me110C, 109E, Hurricane Mk1,&2C, P40B&E,& MC200,& CR42 then it will fit in nicely.
I understand why you are frustrated Visconti, as a Italian pilot you naturally enjoy flying Italian planes, now no other Sim models Italian planes like in A/H, so this is encourging.
I think visconti, that you should channel your emotions towards lobbying for the early plane set to be added, how can A/H really ignore these A/C they were so important in WW2!!!... I say lets start from the "start" and get early war fighters in,NOW......stop the perk plane project and start to build from the start upwards......., then with the terraine editor we can start to run events like pearl harbour and malta 1941, 42...not to mention the battle of Britan.
I also call on A/H (hitechcreations) to tell us like most businesses do, where they expect to be in 12 months from now, give us an insight into whats to come?, as paying customers would be nice to see where we would be in 12 months from now. I also put it to the managment to offer a voteing system to allow players to vote for early war stuff & Various A/C.....
Your thoughts on this subject would be nice.
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I have done some more testing vs the FH, for all the guns I could fire alone.
Legend - Gun Calibre: Rounds to kill Fighter Hanger("Damage"* per round)
*"Damage" = 1000/(rnds to kill FH)
Light Machineguns
MG 17 7.92mm: 5050(0.198)
Browning .303in: 5050(0.198)
Breda-SAFAT 7.7mm: 5350(0.187)
Medium Machineguns
Browning .50in: 1300(0.769)
UBS 12.7mm: 1300(0.769)
Breda-SAFAT 12.7mm: 1575(0.635)
MG 131 13mm: 1630(0.614)
Cannon
MK 108 30mm: 130(7.69)
Hispano Mk2 20mm: 370(2.70)
Type 99 Mk2 20mm: 390(2.56)
ShVAK 20mm: 440(2.27)
MG 151/20 20mm: 440(2.27)
So for example; HS 20mm is 2.7/0.769 = 3.5 times stronger than the Browning .50in.
Unfortunately this information is probably less useful for "damage" vs aircraft, unless they take damage the exact same way the FH does. Also the relative(and absolute) values are only valid at point blank range; beyond that all the values will probably change due to ballistics, round types, etc...
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hehe
Visconti, i remember my first flight in 202 ...
I shot down one 205... dont u remembet his name ???
Gie :-)))
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Those early war planes would be real joy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
..maybe WWII online.
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I really enjoy the heck outta the 202. You have to get close enuf to smell em to make sure of a kill, ohh and fire about 1000rnds into em (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Whats to keep anyone from having a event with 202s, SpitVs or 109Fs? close match ups and fairly early A/C
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And what will you do, in about four years, when it's the 1944 timeframe and with periooid aircraft flying in that persistant world Fishu?? Quit WWII online for a couple of years till it revolves back to 1930-1940??
-Westy
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I like Jimbears idea.
Zigrat, are ya listenin'? Think you could throw another one together? Lastnights' was fun!
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)