Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nefarious on March 04, 2004, 12:06:19 AM
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My Great Uncle sold his house in South Carolina and is now renting a house where I live to store all of his belongings while
he looks for another house. He owns a lot of antiques and while we were unpacking some of his stuff he pulled out this German Knife from World War Two. He knows Im into anything relating to World War two and asked me If I could get anymore Info on it.
The first time I saw it, I noticed it has the SA Logo on the top. So Im pretty sure its not a Hitler Youth Knife, But I really dont know enough about the different German Knives to really make a guess on it...Any Help would be great!
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_145_1078378655.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_145_1078378734.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_145_1078378809.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_145_1078379307.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_145_1078379408.jpg)
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Hey, looks like an NSKK dagger, they were maid from about 1933 to 1942. I got 2 sites for you, the first one gives info on them, and the 2end has some pictures of them and prices, if thats real (looks like it) then itd be worth some dollars!
http://www.germandressdaggers.com/Reference%20SA-SS-NSKK.htm (http://www.germandressdaggers.com/Reference%20SA-SS-NSKK.htm)
http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com/catalogue/weapons/daggers/nskk/ (http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com/catalogue/weapons/daggers/nskk/)
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Thanks, LWACE!
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Ok, gonna show my ignorance here.
What's the difference between the SA, the SS, and the NSKK?
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The Nazi party - or, the National Socialist Party of Deutschland(NSDAP) - had mixed origins in the beginning. It's not surprising as fascism itself, is a strange mix of nostalgic romanticisim and mysticism coupled with modern day political mobilization philosophies, ultra-rightwing political tactics and racism.
The Sturm Abteilung(SA), was a small reminder of the socialist element in Nazism - where the Nazis borrowed a lot of useful means of mass mobilization from the left such as political rallies, demonstrations, centralized party organization and etc etc.
The Sturm Abteilung was a para-military organization under the Nazi party, which was wildly loyal to Nazism and its leaders, and yet, dangerously hostile towards big business and capitalism, led by its Captain Ernst Rohem.
You have to understand that after WW1, Germany was in a mess. The Nazi party had not yet shown its incredible hostility towards anything communistic or socialistic. None of its "official" agendas we recognize today, had yet surfaced in early '30s.
It undermined the political base of the Social Democrats and Communists, appealing to the masses that the loss of WW1 and the economical ruin Germany lay in, was a result of the weak and failed policies of the left. The Nazi party, seemed like an ideal alternative - to the people it sounded a lot like social democratism which earned a lot of political support in Germany since the second half of the 19th century - and yet, it emphasized in values like wild patriotism, strong diplomatic policies, collective effort towards the renewal of the country and etc etc.
As mentioned, before Hitler's rise to power in 1933, Nazism had not yet "officialized" its internal policies, and the angry young men of Germany, were just as mad towards the corporates and rich people who survived unscathed from the war, as they were mad toward left-wing activists movements. The anti-capitalistic band of militant young men were gathered in the SA.
In 1934, one year after Hitler's election, in a brutal event known as the "Night of the Long Knives", the SA was purged with all of its major leaders slaughtered, including Ernst Rohem. Any element of socialism or communism that resided in Nazism was since that day, forever gone. The SA was reorganized into the SS after then.
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Thanks, Kweassa! Good history lesson I sorely needed. Explained alot about how the SS and Nazism were inter-related. Now I'm motivated to poke a little deeper in the "Night of the Long Knives" incident(s).
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Im guessing a Ford product of some sorts.
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Here it is called an "SS dagger". Seen many of them, one was even in my school handicraft class in early-80s.
Great thing to cut sausage when noone sees you. But not to show in public, at least here.
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Originally posted by gofaster
Thanks, Kweassa! Good history lesson I sorely needed. Explained alot about how the SS and Nazism were inter-related. Now I'm motivated to poke a little deeper in the "Night of the Long Knives" incident(s).
I found a good link about the event here (http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/roehm.htm).
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Update:
Weve searched up and down and found this is an SA Dagger. NNSK Daggers had black sheaths. This one is brown. The Older they are the value seems to go up, His appears to be produced sometime between 1937 and 1942. Its RZM Number (7/27) was a little bit harder to find.
Most Knives seem to have a RZM Number and a year. Also some have Factory logo's or Sturmgruppe Logos, like a squirrel or a pair of spectacles, some have a Beer Mug or a Pumas head.
What we really need to know now is:
Why doesnt this knife have a year under its RZM Number? Or some kind of logo of somesort?
What does RZM stand for?
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Dunno about identification, but thats a very nice peice.
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The SA wasn't necessarily reorganized as the SS. Within the SA there was a group tasked with protecting Hitler. This group was known as the "Protection Squad" or Schutzstaffel (abbreviated "SS.") led by Heinrich Himmler . After the "Night of the Long Knives" and under Himmler's lead the SS grew incorporating some of the SA into its ranks. The SS was eventually to grow so large that it was often referred to as the "state within the state". It was involved in everything from industry; politics and it even had it own "Army" (Waffen SS).
Leading up to the Blood Purge:
On 11 April 1934, Hitler conferred with Reichswehr generals aboard Deutschland. It was made clear to Hitler then, that he could not expect to succeed Hindenburg as President unless he removed the SA as a rival to the Reichswehr. (Roehm had advocated disbanding the Reichswehr and having the SA take its place.) Also the bankers, industrialists and armaments manufacturers had made clear that they would only support Hitler's bid for the Presidency if he abandoned the socialistic points of his program.
Ernst Roehm and several of the leaders of the SA were homosexuals but this was well known. Some say this was the "excuse" used by the NSDAP to get rid of them. But there’s some question as to whether this was really the reason. It seems Roehm was aware of the fact that Hitler was willing to push aside the SA to become president. Hitler in a conversation with his chauffeur mentioned he thought Roehm was about to attempt a coup and take over the NSDAP. What ever the true reason the SA was purged but so was the NSDAP.
Read this thread for a listing of Blood Purge Victims, some had no association with the SA.
Victims of the Blood Purge (Knight of the long Knives) (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=26354)
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Nefari,
Try posting on this forum,
Edged Weapons (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewforum.php?f=21)
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Thanks Batz!