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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: VO101_Isegrim on March 05, 2004, 07:42:05 AM

Title: Interesting comment on Bf 109 elevator forces
Post by: VO101_Isegrim on March 05, 2004, 07:42:05 AM

I found the following at ubi.com. I think it`s worth to be shared. It`s an answer from Oleg Maddox, creator of Il-2 Sturmovik, a Russian aviation engineer :

Quote

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Originally posted by BerkshireHunt:
Yes, and while we're about it what about the 109's heavy elevator on dive recovery?... It's well documented, I believe.
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Oleg_Maddox

Yes it well documented in trials. True aircpeed is 980 km/h - no problem to recover. Force on the stick less than 40 kg (without use of trim)
From the trals in Rechlin. I have all the data for this..

And it is the very similar force on a stick like for the best easy flying planes of WWII....

Any other questions?

I suppose the Rechlin test is most likely for an 109 F or G (makes little difference).

Certainly it disproves two myths : "weak" Bf 109 structure in dives (frankly this was disproven so many times already..), and the story of supernatural strenght required for pullout.

Any details on this Rechlin test? I suppose this not the Lukas dives, there he only took it as far as 906 km/h (a hybrid 109F, de facto a Gustav).

Title: Interesting comment on Bf 109 elevator forces
Post by: butch2k on March 05, 2004, 08:21:03 AM

AFAIK he is wpeaking of Lucas' very well documented test of which you could find a copy on the Lair, he probably made an error in quoting.

Title: Interesting comment on Bf 109 elevator forces
Post by: straffo on March 05, 2004, 08:38:25 AM

J'ai du mal à croire ce que je lis tu peux m'expliquer Butch ?
et c'est quoi cette copy on the lair ?

Title: Interesting comment on Bf 109 elevator forces
Post by: butch2k on March 05, 2004, 08:52:51 AM

"The 109 Lair"  @ 109lair.hobbyvista.com
Don't know where they put the report since Lynn changed the layout though...
Je t'envoie le rapport par mail

Title: Interesting comment on Bf 109 elevator forces
Post by: VO101_Isegrim on March 05, 2004, 09:07:30 AM

IIRC the part of the report as on the Lair does not mention stickforces.. there could be more of it of course. I cant find it either, but as I recall it was hidden in some article as a reference..

Title: Interesting comment on Bf 109 elevator forces
Post by: butch2k on March 05, 2004, 09:13:42 AM

I'm quite certain i have seen a report with stick forces mentionned, maybe it's another one within my collection.

Title: Interesting comment on Bf 109 elevator forces
Post by: GScholz on March 05, 2004, 10:54:44 AM

40kg sounds right compared to the other data I have seen posted. Unfortunately it seems AH limits stick forces (or rather pilot strength) to 50 pounds (~25kg). At least the roll charts indicate this.

Title: Interesting comment on Bf 109 elevator forces
Post by: Karnak on March 05, 2004, 03:51:13 PM

I've seen a British report in which the high elevator forces at speed noted in their tests were hypothisized to be the cause of 109s seen diving into the ground without having been hit.

Title: Interesting comment on Bf 109 elevator forces
Post by: Pongo on March 05, 2004, 03:55:40 PM

Such things happened to all planes.

Title: Interesting comment on Bf 109 elevator forces
Post by: VO101_Isegrim on March 06, 2004, 07:04:59 AM

Quote

Originally posted by GScholz
40kg sounds right compared to the other data I have seen posted. Unfortunately it seems AH limits stick forces (or rather pilot strength) to 50 pounds (~25kg). At least the roll charts indicate this.

Keep in mind that the pilot can pull/push with larger force than to sideways.. Sideways : 2x 20-25 lbs . Pull/Push : 2 x 50-55 lbs. Or 50 and 110 lbs limits. Of course only if you use two hands..