Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on March 05, 2004, 02:42:02 PM
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From FOX News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113378,00.html)
Figures out Friday showed that employers added just 21,000 jobs to payrolls in February, far below the 125,000 economists had projected. To compound the bad news, January new-jobs figures were revised downward from 112,000 to 97,000.
The overall unemployment rate remained steady at 5.6 percent, below the 1990s average, but with 8.2 million workers looking for employment, the numbers could become a liability for Bush.
"At this rate the Bush administration won't create its first job for more than 10 years," Kerry told reporters on his way to New Orleans.
"Americans have a clear choice in this election," he continued. "They can either suffer more and more job losses, or give George Bush a new job in November and start putting Americans back to work."
"Today's jobs numbers show how far we are from any of the president's promises being kept," Kerry added. "The fact is that every new job created this month was for government employees. There were zero private-sector jobs created — no manufacturing jobs."
"As alarming as these statistics are," chimed in Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, "they don't even count the 392,000 workers who have dropped out of the labor force because they have lost all hope of ever finding a job."
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"As alarming as these statistics are," chimed in Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, "they don't even count the 392,000 workers who have dropped out of the labor force because they have lost all hope of ever finding a job."
LOL
what, did they receive 392,000 letters:
"I give up"
signed
Hopeless
what a crock
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Figures out Friday showed that employers added just 21,000 jobs to payrolls in February, far below the 125,000 economists had projected. To compound the bad news, January new-jobs figures were revised downward from 112,000 to 97,000.
21,000 new jobs in one month = bad news?
The overall unemployment rate remained steady at 5.6 percent, below the 1990s average, but with 8.2 million workers looking for employment, the numbers could become a liability for Bush.
So 5.6% is good, but the corresponding 8.2M is bad?
"At this rate the Bush administration won't create its first job for more than 10 years," Kerry told reporters on his way to New Orleans.
I thought they did 21,000 in February? Im confused.
"Americans have a clear choice in this election," he continued. "They can either suffer more and more job losses, or give George Bush a new job in November and start putting Americans back to work."
Because private employers will hire new employees if Bush leaves.
"Today's jobs numbers show how far we are from any of the president's promises being kept," Kerry added. "The fact is that every new job created this month was for government employees. There were zero private-sector jobs created — no manufacturing jobs."
Well then ***** at them for not hiring people.
"As alarming as these statistics are," chimed in Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, "they don't even count the 392,000 workers who have dropped out of the labor force because they have lost all hope of ever finding a job."
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I must agree with Saur on this one. The economy ain't the place to attack Bush's record. It's too good. We can't find enough warm bodies to build the product we've sold.
This is as bad as the reps attacking Kerry's war record. His war record is good, so is the economy. Now what else have you got?
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MT, if you keep making sense, you're going to have to turn in your Democrat membership card.
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Originally posted by Gman
MT, if you keep making sense, you're going to have to turn in your Democrat membership card.
Thanks - I was having trouble typing and breathing.
What he said.
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Ignore the previous post... MT has been kidnapped by members of the Young Republicans and is being tortured as we speak.
One can only imagine the horrors he is living through......
supply side water torture
Pro-choice fingernail pulling
Lawrence Welk music blaring into his ears!
poor guy.
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Saurdaukar: 21,000 new jobs in one month = bad news?
Very bad - or would be if that number ment anything. Around 150,000 were expected.
Anyway, I learned sabout methodology on how they come up with those numbers. It's crap and totally unrealiable.
In one method they question just 60,000 households and extrapolate the results to the whole american population. In another method they question a certain small number of companies. Those two methods often yield widely differing results.
The statistics itself is crap. How good are 100,000 monimum-wage jobs? Is that better than 50,000 top-notch jobs?
Much better statistics would be increase in average hourly wage and average hours worked.
miko
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'As alarming as these statistics are," chimed in Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, "they don't even count the 392,000 workers who have dropped out of the labor force because they have lost all hope of ever finding a job.'
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't understand the ROFL, miko. I'm sure you know that unemployment data uses those applying for first-time unemployment benefits. If someone does not find a job within 6 months, they are dropped from the data completely and defined as having dropped out of workforce.
If someone is laid off for more than 6 months or fails to find a job in 6 months, they are still unemployed, but are no longer counted as unemployed.
I know Daschle is using a little political hyperbole, as all politicians do, but he is not wrong about the numbers.
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^ That was not me.
miko
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They move back home and mooch off their parents... dammit!
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Not included in this number is the number of part time jobs that companies have picked up, an indicator for the corporations to "test the water with their big toe", and many of these part time employees become full time. It usually a prelude to full time hiring.
Another thing, they've never counted those that dropped off the unemployment lists, in this administration or prior ones. Some of those who stop claiming unemployment take jobs under the table, I certainly did for a year when my benefits ran out after 6 months in 1982.
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lets look at this another way, bad news for the USA is good news for kerry.
the only chance kerry has of winning is for the USA economy and iraq all the other stuff to go bad.
it must be sad that the only way kerry can win is to hope for everything to go bad for the USA so kerry can come in and "fix" it
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Originally posted by miko2d
Saurdaukar: 21,000 new jobs in one month = bad news?
Very bad - or would be if that number ment anything. Around 150,000 were expected.
So if one bought a lottery ticket and hoped to win the 128.4 million jackpot, but missed one number and collected $100,000 instead, one would fall into deep depression over the bad news and blow the 100 grand on therapy and prozac.
okay, got it.
Just an aside, in Jan 2001, DOL reported 136 million jobs held in America. In Jan 2004, DOL reports 138.5 million jobs.
Somehow, according to election year rhetoric, GW Bush will be the first president to preside over a net job loss while in reality 2.5 million jobs were created.
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What this is about is a failure of Bush's economic plan. They had all these rosy projections and failed to meet them. If this were a company, it's stock would plummet.
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Originally posted by rpm371
What this is about is a failure of Bush's economic plan. They had all these rosy projections and failed to meet them. If this were a company, it's stock would plummet.
And that would be just as illogical. We are being driven by mob mentality rather than realizing that growth is growth and profit is profit.
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One thing alot of people dont even consider is the possibility that things could have a hell of a lot worse than they are without the tax cuts. Perhaps Bush prevented a economic catastrophe and what we have now is far better than what could have been!
Something to consider. Perhaps things are alot better than they would have been under Gore. Perhaps......
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Look the only way to create more jobs is to get rid of Bush and reverse the tax cuts.
Only by significantly raising taxes on businesses, investment and personal income will more jobs be created.
Believe.
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Oh, yeah, we need to make the captial gains tax 75%. That will help a lot too.
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miko2d.
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Originally posted by Toad
Look the only way to create more jobs is to get rid of Bush and reverse the tax cuts.
Only by significantly raising taxes on businesses, investment and personal income will more jobs be created.
Believe.
Yes Toad, you have uncovered the secret plan. Democrats want to ruin the nation, bankrupt everyone and turn the keys over to whatever Communist nation still exists. We had 8 years to get it done with Clinton, but all that moron could do was turn the economy around after Bush1 screwed the pooch...lousy Democrats.
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Yes indeed. The Democrats are the only ones that have access to the Business Cycle Regulator Transmutator switch.
I'm glad you agree raising taxes....... as just about every single one of the Democratic Presidential hopefuls wanted to do...... will get the ol' economy rolling again.
It sure won't be the Business Cycle in the World Economy. At least we all know that. Whew.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I must agree with Saur on this one. The economy ain't the place to attack Bush's record. It's too good. We can't find enough warm bodies to build the product we've sold.
This is as bad as the reps attacking Kerry's war record. His war record is good, so is the economy. Now what else have you got?
Nobody can seriously attack kerry's war record. Now perhaps his disingenous postwar behavior and certainly his anti national security voting record - well those are fair game.
I do wonder how kerry aims to increase jobs? What is his plan?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I do wonder how kerry aims to increase jobs? What is his plan?
You haven't been paying attention, Grun.
You simply repeal all tax cuts and then pass a tax increase.
Voila! Instant economic recovery! All the jobs will suddenly stop going to Asia, too.
All through the miracle of higher taxes.
;)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I do wonder how kerry aims to increase jobs? What is his plan?
Here's Kerry's plan: Hate Bush then everthying else will get better because he's going to "work his heart out" to create jobs.
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http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1208a.html
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Kerry's idea for an Attorney Gereral is "someone other than John Ashcroft" too. He is a man with a plan, Kerry's our man!
Kerry's campaign is so far :
1. Bush is a failure
2. My idea of an Attorney General is someone other than Aschcroft
3.I'm a war hero
4. The war (I approved) in Iraq was a Bush mistake
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Kerry’s five-point technology plan will:
1. Encourage innovation to create high paying jobs: Kerry’s plan includes mechanisms to create jobs in the technology sector by supporting new investments in small technology companies and supporting advanced technology
( Does this seem pretty non-specific to you? "Supporting investments and technology". Where does he stand on capital gains taxes then? I can't find it on his website.)
2. Assure America has cutting edge technology for the future: Kerry would make more spectrum available for experimentation with new, more efficient technologies and radios and providing a tax credit to telecommunications companies that deploy broadband in rural and underserved parts of America.
(So just getting broadband out to the middle of Kansas, Iowa, Nevada and the Dakotas will revive our economy? It'd sure make playing AH easier when I move to Nowhere, Montana though.)
3. Make America more competitive by strengthening our markets: John Kerry would empower innovators by cracking down on trade and intellectual property violations and enhance confidence with strong corporate accountability.
(This is why all our manufacturing jobs are moving to 3rd world countries? Really? And here I thought it was because China has a few million folks eager and willing to make cheap tools that break while working for $2 an hour, free company lunch of rice included.)
4. Train a workforce prepared for the jobs of the 21st century: Kerry will work to assure every child a world class education and make college as universal as high school.
(With all the manufacturing overseas and in Mexico, what jobs does he think our kids will have? And that "world-class" education....Kerry voted for No Child Left Behind, now he attacks it on the campaign trail. Hmmmm.
5. Using technology to improve quality of life: Kerry will work to assure every child a world class education and improve health through Stem Cell research.
Ah! OK.. got it now. Stem Cell research will solve the health care program AND save the economy.
Before you start, I'm almost certain I'm NOT voting for Bush this time around. But I'm not going to pretend that Kerry has any answers. All these politicians propose tons of stuff. By the time it gets through Congress, it's all radically altered and rarely has the intended results. Kerry's proposals seem particularly non-substantial.
Not to mention the flip-flops. He voted for NAFTA and now he says he wouldn't do that again. :) Just another pol.
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I use two factors to judge how well the economy is doing:
1) The price of wine at the shop on the corner. Ever since the boom of the clinton years, it's been pretty steep. And it's stayed there.
2) The line of people that forms at 5 pm at the homeless shelter on the other corner. Ever since W. took office, it's been getting longer.
As Warren Buffett stated in his newsletter: "If class warfare is being waged in America, my class is clearly winning."
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You guys really think one guy has such a big influence on the biggest and most complex economic system in human history?
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Originally posted by Dinger
I use two factors to judge how well the economy is doing:
1) The price of wine at the shop on the corner. Ever since the boom of the clinton years, it's been pretty steep. And it's stayed there.
2) The line of people that forms at 5 pm at the homeless shelter on the other corner. Ever since W. took office, it's been getting longer.
As Warren Buffett stated in his newsletter: "If class warfare is being waged in America, my class is clearly winning."
Can you tell us what specific corner and the city this is? I am just curious, because this sounds like bs to me.
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(http://www.air-fun.com/windbag.gif)
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Okay, two blocks, I confess.
John's Grocery (recently named in some magazine or other one of the "70 best places to buy beer in the world"), corner of 100 block of N. Gilbert street
Homeless shelter, corner of 300 block of N. Gilbert street
Iowa City, IA
and, no I don't think it's one person. It's more of an administration; and there's plenty that's not in their control. That doesn't exonerate them though.
if you want, I'll get photographs
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Originally posted by Eagler
"As alarming as these statistics are," chimed in Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, "they don't even count the 392,000 workers who have dropped out of the labor force because they have lost all hope of ever finding a job."
LOL
what, did they receive 392,000 letters:
"I give up"
signed
Hopeless
what a crock
Do you understand how they come up with unemployment numbers eagler? I am guessing you dont so here is a little lesson.
When comming up with the national percentage for unemployment they just count the number of people that are currently recieving unemployment checks.
So when he says that dosnt even count the people that stoped recieveing unemployment he is correct. Most economist suggest that the real number of unemployment is getting close to 1930's numbers.
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So when he says that dosnt even count the people that stoped recieveing unemployment he is correct. Most economist suggest that the real number of unemployment is getting close to 1930's numbers.
LOL
You are saying unemplyment is at great depression levels? Is this % or actual number of people....
You are demented....
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percentage, it was only 10 percent.
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There are not many new jobs being created. There is a lot of recycling of jobs for those within the work force. Those new to the workforce (young...) are finding it very difficult to find jobs that will sustain them independently.
The problem will come when these same young people will have to finance the corporate tax cuts that are not creating the intended investment into expansion and more jobs.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
percentage, it was only 10 percent.
BS, BS!!! BS alert, BS alert!! This is not a drill!
http://www2.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/recovery.htm
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I do wonder how kerry aims to increase jobs? What is his plan?
a good start would be to face the problem.
it would be a refreshing change from the curent system of watching our jobs go overseas, then instead of doing anything about it just try to explain to us how it's a good thing.
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we need to raise corporate taxes, i understand the owner of Heinz Foods is worth hundereds of millions. pay up rich lady
also , Heinz Foods has 27 overseas plants,it has to be one of them "benidect arnold" companys that send american jobs overseas that kerry is warning us about.
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boy john you really hate the wives of democrats. Hillary and now ms hienz, who has not even said much or done much yet.
And grun if you look at 1930, right after the market crash the number is 10 percent.
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Originally posted by Dinger
Okay, two blocks, I confess.
John's Grocery (recently named in some magazine or other one of the "70 best places to buy beer in the world"), corner of 100 block of N. Gilbert street
Homeless shelter, corner of 300 block of N. Gilbert street
Iowa City, IA
and, no I don't think it's one person. It's more of an administration; and there's plenty that's not in their control. That doesn't exonerate them though.
if you want, I'll get photographs
yes, please post some photos of the line in front of the homeless shelter, would be interesting.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
And grun if you look at 1930, right after the market crash the number is 10 percent.
The unemployment rate didn't rize to above 20% until 1932.
This shows how looking at a snapshot of statistics actually means nothing. The iceberg killed no one on the Titanic, it wasn't until several hours later when she finally went down that 1500 people died.
Saying that the present rate, which hovers at about 5%, is nearing depression levels is still a lie. The rate is half of what it was during Carter. Anybody remember the misery index?
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
a good start would be to face the problem.
Yes indeed!
A REALLY good start would be for the folks who blame the current President or Administration to help me understand just why that is so.
Just a guess, but I'm sorta thinking it started quite a while prior to Jan 20, 2001.
Further, I'm guessing it goes far beyond who sits behind the desk in the Oval Office.
The search for perps may well have to extend to Congress and corporate boardrooms.
But, please to enlighten me how it's all Bush's fault. I'll surely read it and think about it.
Oh, yeah... please tell me how Kerry...... or ANYONE....... is going to fix it now that the dung has hit the blades of the high velocity air movement device.
Thanks.
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(http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~psyc351/Images/GrassGreener1.jpg)
frogboy, so now you are sayin the 10% unemployment caused the great depression? LOL
I think the problem happened after the market crashed and the number rose to almost 40%...
unemployment figures are an educated guess at best .. its all a shell game
there are jobs out there for ppl who want to work, problem is the dems demotivate their voting base from wanting to work and towards sittin on their arse collecting gov freebies - nothin like watching a dem pay for her groceries with food stamps in the middle of the day and drive away in her mercedes ... only in America
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
boy john you really hate the wives of democrats. Hillary and now ms hienz, who has not even said much or done much yet.
And grun if you look at 1930, right after the market crash the number is 10 percent.
Frogman I think you ware trying to argue disingenously. I know you dont like Bush and thats perfectly fine but dont use poor and innacurate arguments like saying it was like during the 1930s implying the great depression to do it - it just makes people upset and hurts your credibility.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
And that would be just as illogical. We are being driven by mob mentality rather than realizing that growth is growth and profit is profit.
That quote basically sums up a lot of what is so frusrating about this administration.
Conservative used to mean an alliance to the American Free Market System. It puzzles me how people can dismiss the payroll report. Regardless of how its calculated it has been accepted as a market indicator, and market indicator's drive growth.
Americans in business live in a world of relative performance. Firms have to hit targets Quarter to Quarter. Now if you want to talk about loosening the focus on quarterly results akin to a European or Japanese type system that's a whole other conversation.
Bottom line: Big business threw a lot of money in Bush's pocket and the economic returns have been very poor.
Regardless of whether the economy's performance is "his fault" or not, it should be #2 on his agenda only slightly behind Foreign Policy concerns.
There is a high % of centrist conservatives out there who have an impression that the party is too focused on special interest crap like gay marriage and gun control.
America is about making money. Who wants a politician who ever thinks the economy is "good enough".
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Politics of extremism.
I recently read an article in newsweek or us news and world report which stated that there is data showing that only some 7% of voters are moderate undecided "swing" voters. If this is true then that explains the extreme pandering to far left far right issues by the respective parties this year...
Anyway I suggest that you dont vote...
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Originally posted by Hornet
That quote basically sums up a lot of what is so frusrating about this administration.
not just the administration, includes congress and the electorate[/i]
Bottom line: Big business threw a lot of money in Bush's pocket and the economic returns have been very poor.
Regardless of whether the economy's performance is "his fault" or not, it should be #2 on his agenda only slightly behind Foreign Policy concerns.
The bottom line is the only thing that this administration can do is nudge fiscal policy. Tax policy and spending policy is in the hands of congress and the executive can only attempt to convince congress to steer the policy.
The Fed Reserve Chairman has much more to do with the economy than does the president, and the Fed Chairman has less to do with the state of the economy than consumers en mass deciding which toy will be the next Tickle Me Elmo.
The economy is driven by the mob of consumers and when we don't behave in a manner condusive to growth we blame it on the president instead of ourselves.
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30% of the voters are hard core republicans and will always vote republican.
30% of the voters are hard core democrat and will always vote democrat.
it's the 40% in the middle that choose the president, thats why the candidates all want to appear "moderate"