Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: beet1e on March 07, 2004, 05:28:31 AM
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I know you like Beemers. Have you ever considered owning the Merc equivalent of your current car? Would it be much different in price? AFAIK Mercs hold their value like no other car... Driving in Germany, I expected to see lots of BMWs pass me at 150mph. But the high speed cars were mostly Mercs, and maybe a few BMW.
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Mercs are cumbersome, less oriented at the driver's experience and more towards comfort and usually visually repulsing. But that is just personal obviously...
On topic, BMW surpassed MBenz in the US as most value-retaing brand. Was posted on the board a few weeks ago, I believe.
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Besides, a Mercedes would ruin the whole decor scheme in his garage.
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Morning (Afternoon) Beetle.
No, I've honestly never considered Merc's and model for model, they're slightly higher $$ here in the U.S. I drove a 1992 525i a couple years before I purchased my bimmer, and realized what a fine performance car its was, handling wise and began saving my money. What really sold me was this '92 525 I drove had over 180,000 miles on it, and I thought it was relatively low milege until I looked at the odometer. The owner was a 2nd owner, and nothing had been done to the car except basic wear out items like brakes, clutches, etc. It too had the inline 6.
Thud is right about holding their value, but thats not why I bought the car. I bought it because I test drove alot of different models that were similiar, and none could match the handling that the 3'er had with the sports suspension, combined with the comfortable interior room for my family of 4 and the gas milege (25 city/30 highway, 23 if I'm pushing the car hard) I did not, however, test drive a Merc so I can't give it a fair comparison.
Are you considering a Merc Beetle?
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When I was a mechanic I found that the Mercedes was the smoothest car to drive compared to the BMW. Jaguar XJ6 was also very smooth to drive. Both German cars engines last forever but one thing I did find odd was that the interior of the Merc and BMW was very basic; you really had to have all the optional extras fitted to make it comparable to say, a Jaguar. Of course times have most likely progressed ten fold since I ceased being a mechanic!
Where I live in England there's always plenty of flash cars going about. BMWs are ten a penny but Mercs are still less common. With that in mind if I had to choose between the two it would be the Merc (although the new BMW 6 series and Z4 are very sweet looking!).
(http://www.mbegypt.mercedes-benz.com/images/clk_main.jpg)(http://www.mbegypt.mercedes-benz.com/images/sl_main.jpg)
Of course I can't afford one so.... ;)
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BTW, Beetle, why 'Remains Of The Day'?
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the newest mercs are better looking than ever but the bmw is still better.
Some hate the new bmw design and a few love it....i agree with the few.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Driving in Germany, I expected to see lots of BMWs pass me at 150mph. But the high speed cars were mostly Mercs, and maybe a few BMW.
Cuz every knucklehead here drives a Benz.;)
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Speaking of Benz, I just ordered one of these. What a "Hoot" to drive.
(http://www.netmagazine.de/motor/mobiles2003/smart/road18030305.jpg)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Are you considering a Merc Beetle?
No, but I do like those SLKs like the one in the right hand picture that Nexx posted. I sold my 2.8i V6 Golf in November and replaced it with another Golf, a 1.9 GTi/TDi. Long list of pluses for the diesel, the main one being the fuel consumption - always more than 40mpg, 50mpg or more on some journeys. For the V6 it was only ever 20-27mpg. With fuel prices as they are in Britain, I'm saving about £80 (=$147) per month on fuel bills. And the TDi is no sacrifice. It accelerates effortlessly through 70...80...90, and is happy to stay there. The only thing I miss about the V6 is the 4WD.
Nexx - it was one of the best films I ever saw.
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THAT is one ugly car. did they run out of ideas so they just copied a Honda CRX?
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Beatle,
In the US, Merc is not really seen as a 'performance' car as it is in Europe. That is just now starting to change with the advertising blitz MB is doing for some of the new AMG cars (E55 especially).
Americans tend to look upon the car pretty much as has been described above - heavy, bulky, comfortable. Now - they are extremely comfortable cars, but with most having curb weights exceeding 3800 lbs, they're not exactly gymnasts.
The other problem is the transmission... the US doesnt get manual tranny's in the cars that you do in Europe.
Its difficult to justify a car as a 'sports car' without being able to row your own boat.
If the C32 had a 6 speed and a tach you could read, I'd be all over it. Unfortunately, all it really amounts to is a stupid fast sedan with a torque converter.
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Saurd - I don't have an axe to grind either way in the manual/auto debate. I've had both and I like both. Auto was sometimes less than ideal in hilly terrain, but with four ratios plus lock-up overdrive, they're a lot better now than they were 20-30 years ago. But my new car, like the last one, has 6 forward gears - manual.
Oddly enough, some cars are not offered in manual form even in Europe - and I thought the Merc SLK was one. Certainly I never saw a manual Merc SL in the 80s/90s. I had a Toyota Supra 3.0i turbo in 1991, and actually chose the automatic. Its performance figures (top speed 153mph, 0-60 in 6.1 secs) were identical to those of the manual car. It was a great car. I kept it 6½ years and 84,000 trouble free miles.
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It seems Mercedes is abandoing manual trannys, they now have a 7 speed automatic thats suppsed to be quicker than 5-6 speed manuals...
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Grun is right, Mercedes seems to really be abandoning manual transmissions - a shame, imho.
The new SLR comes with a 5-speed-auto. Although it can be set to semi-manual (tiptronic) mode, it's still not what I would expect on a super-sportscar. Makes it seem like just another toy for buyers with more money than driving skill.
I'd take a Porsche over the SLR anytime.. if it weren't for the sound of the SLR. Those sidepipes are just.. evil.
On the big Sedans the 7G-Tronic is awesome though. Feels extremely smooth with improved acceleration and reduced emissions compared to manual transmission and the old 5 speed automatic.
Beetle, i take it it's just a typo, but the car on the right picture Nexx posted is a SL, not a SLK. You're right though, neither version of the SL is available with manual transmission.
The SLK is still available with a 6-speed-manual though. Even the upcoming new model. Fun drive, plus the new SLK finally looks good too :)
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Yeah, Beetle, the SLK is below:
(http://www.mbegypt.mercedes-benz.com/images/slk.jpg)
Hmm... no manual on most the Mercs... :(
BMW 6 series looks nicer now! :)
(http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/8EBD0582-64DD-4B73-9947-7C9E9B017DEF/0/0467_06.jpg)
(http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/F6E48D31-1866-4A8E-9B16-F56B0FBED8C4/0/0467_12.jpg)
(http://www.bmwusa.com/nr/rdonlyres/0cd4cb32-4842-4273-b78e-7e81f01f40f9/0/6coupe_modelpg.jpg)
(http://www.bmwusa.com/nr/rdonlyres/14a353d7-d12d-4ef0-bcc9-f727cab193ee/0/6conv_modelpg.jpg)
(http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/5C053876-ED54-4CB3-AEF5-68144C0FEE96/0/0467_A07_3qfront.jpg)
(http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/1B186FBA-07E7-4F4B-A287-759DB7EC9CD9/0/0467_A07_3qrear.jpg)
(http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/1970B7DB-5247-4183-B869-E6F6CC9B2198/0/0467_A07_profile.jpg)
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Chris Bangle must die.....
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I kinda like it's rear end but the front looks just wrong.
Especially those new BMW headlights - they're just plain ugly.
BMW does have the edge when it comes to reliability though, at least electronics wise. Mercedes has a lot to catch up on in that regard.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Chris Bangle must die.....
He has already been removed as Chief Designer. I believe he is in a 'consulting' position now.
Thankfully....
Edit: The most beautiful BMW design ever. IMO, nothing will surpass the E30 M3 from a visual point of view. Just ignore the bling bling wheels on this one.
(http://www.s14.ctmnet.de/0151/07.jpg)
The E46 M3 is a close second.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
He has already been removed as Chief Designer. I believe he is in a 'consulting' position now.
Thankfully....
Oh please let it be true!! Is there an article somewhere I can read about this good news? :)
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Nah, the kid ran WEP long and fried his engine. The police cars have upgraded cooling systems just for these occasions... :)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Oh please let it be true!! Is there an article somewhere I can read about this good news? :)
http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/News/0,,1369-1372_1471904,00.html
20/01/2004 08:55
BMW's controversial head of design, Chris Bangle, is apparently on his way out. Bangle is responsible for the radical look of current BMWs like the 7, 6 and 5 Series models.
Bangle, an American, was appointed as BMW's head of design about a decade ago and in this time he managed to give most BMW cars a complete new look, which wasn't always favourably accepted by the motoring public.
Auto Express now reports that Bangle will leave his hot seat soon after the launch of BMW's new 1 Series Golf rival, for which Bangle is also responsible.
Bangle introduced a complete new design trend for the Münich car manufacturer with the latest 7 Series. The same radical look was also given to the Z4, the all-new 6 Series and the 5 Series.
He also had a hand in the design of the X3 and the face-lifted X5.
The launch of the 1 Series will complete his design overhaul of BMW products. But the 1 Series won't be the last Bangle designed product.
The next 3 Series, which is due for launch next year, is currently under development and it is almost sure that Bangle's influence will also be recognisable when this important BMW model makes its appearance
(http://www.wheels24.co.za/Images/Photos/20040120084436ChrisBangle_2.jpg)
What BMW is basically doing is 'moving him up' the chain. He will have oversight ability but will not be designing any more cars.
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(http://www.wheels24.co.za/Images/Photos/20040120084436ChrisBangle_2.jpg)
Oh Gawd it gets worse...
Thats the look that says, "And you thought I foooked up BMW design, watch what I can do with some real power!!! Muhahaaa!" Either he is kookoo or he is on Mercedes' payroll...
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Don't let Americans style your cars, you fools! The Mustang, GT40 et al were abberations! You have been warned! :D
The 5 Series is one of the worst looking cars I've seen in recent years. I wonder what the sales figures were for it - it would be interesting to see Merc's equivalent model figures too. Thank god they left the 3 Series pretty much alone - that still looks hot. Still love the M3.
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Originally posted by Dowding
The 5 Series is one of the worst looking cars I've seen in recent years. I wonder what the sales figures were for it - it would be interesting to see Merc's equivalent model figures too.
It was just chosen Car of the year by the European automotive press. And it sells well, though I must admit I had to get used to its looks too.... Last weekend I saw a dark blue one taking a corner at high speed though. Then I saw what I initially missed when I saw it stationary, it is a beautiful car indeed.
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You mean BMW's car show hospitality was chosen as Freebie of the Year. ;) I don't trust the automotive press to be honest.
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Originally posted by Dowding
You mean BMW's car show hospitality was chosen as Freebie of the Year. ;) I don't trust the automotive press to be honest.
Perhaps, but I think the majority of 'carjudges' has had so many pre-show cocktail parties that they're past that and pay some attention to the car itself. Anyway, it does drive like a dream... An overly expensive dream allright, but a dream nevertheless :p
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I'm not criticizing the drive - I'm sure that is up to BMW's standards - it's the styling that sucks. It simply looks cheap. And if I was paying £30,000 for a car, it better have the looks in addition to the handling.
You'd be surprised what first class airline tickets, unlimited bar and gourmet food does to a person's judgement. :p
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Originally posted by beet1e
No, but I do like those SLKs like the one in the right hand picture that Nexx posted. I sold my 2.8i V6 Golf in November and replaced it with another Golf, a 1.9 GTi/TDi. Long list of pluses for the diesel, the main one being the fuel consumption - always more than 40mpg, 50mpg or more on some journeys. For the V6 it was only ever 20-27mpg. With fuel prices as they are in Britain, I'm saving about £80 (=$147) per month on fuel bills. And the TDi is no sacrifice. It accelerates effortlessly through 70...80...90, and is happy to stay there. The only thing I miss about the V6 is the 4WD.
Nexx - it was one of the best films I ever saw.
Just an FYI:
In the USA, the 2004 Golf GTi goes for an avg. of $22,070. The 2004 BMW 325i goes for an avg. of $25,730.
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The 325i for 24.000???? Jeez I'm being ripped off (well not now, but when my mortgage goes down enough, I'll feel that way). A 325i is around 36.000 here.
Daniel
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
The 325i for 24.000???? Jeez I'm being ripped off (well not now, but when my mortgage goes down enough, I'll feel that way). A 325i is around 36.000 here.
Daniel
We have to turn them away at the borders.... ;)
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My next car will be a diesel. They've improved so much in recent years, and the silly fuel prices over here really annoy. I don't think I could stretch to the Golf 1.9 TDi, but the Seat Ibiza GTi 1.9 TDi is highly rated (built by Audi).
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If you are going after an Ibiza, try the Leon TDi, it's the top seller for Seat at the moment.
Daniel
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I like the Leon and there's a TDi in the car-park at work. Might be out of my budget though.
I love the petrol Leon 20v Cupra as well. ;)
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all those cars have the steering wheel on the correct side of the car... wouldn't that make them hard to drive in backward countries?
lazs
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Dowding, et al, any of you ever driven an Alfa 166? Dont have many of them in the states (must be imported) and I was very impressed with the one I was able to poke around in last week.
Do you see many of them in EuroDisneyland?
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Originally posted by Dowding
My next car will be a diesel. They've improved so much in recent years, and the silly fuel prices over here really annoy. I don't think I could stretch to the Golf 1.9 TDi, but the Seat Ibiza GTi 1.9 TDi is highly rated (built by Audi).
Vade retro satanas !
diesel is bad
diesel is bad
diesel is bad
diesel is bad
diesel is bad
diesel is bad
diesel is bad
diesel is bad
diesel is bad
diesel is bad
I had a friend who had a 156 I cannot say a lot about it... he was able to ruin it one week after purchase (fyi he proved the 156 can slide easily 20+ meter on the roof :D)
correction it was not a 166 I asked him ... to bad is crying now :p
correction 2 ... mixed 166 and 156 ...
Must stop coffee now ...
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I've never driven any kind of Alfa, but a friend once had one. Neverending problems with it. But as for the 166, I don't think I've ever seen one. That's their big number, isn't it? The 147 and 156 are pretty common.
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Yeah, it kinda struck me as a 5 series/9-5 competitor. Very attractive car, and from what I understand, quite rare.
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Mercs...That's what we used to call Mercurys back in my youger days...