Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AdmRose on March 07, 2004, 06:23:03 PM

Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: AdmRose on March 07, 2004, 06:23:03 PM
Here is a car problem I have that I'm hoping some of you can help me with. My car today decided to just die in the middle of a street while stopped at a traffic light. It won't restart now. Last time this happened, the car started fine the next morning. Any ideas?
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: LAWCobra on March 07, 2004, 07:03:57 PM
fuel filter?
does it crank?
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: Cougar68 on March 07, 2004, 07:18:13 PM
Make/Model/Year of the car?
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: john9001 on March 07, 2004, 07:22:39 PM
go to your dealer, have them pull the trouble code, that will give you a starting point to find the problem, welcome to the 21st century.

as damiler said to benz, "we got spark,we got gas,auto oughta run"
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: capt. apathy on March 07, 2004, 07:33:08 PM
can't tell nothing without make modle year.

a couple reasons off the top of my head.
cps(crank position sensor)
fuel filter
fuel pump
spark control module (or whatever your model is calling the circuts controlling the coil and distributor)

or any combination of crap involving the computer and it's sensors
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: AdmRose on March 07, 2004, 07:35:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by LAWCobra
fuel filter?
does it crank?


It cranks, but won't start.
Quote
Originally posted by Cougar68
Make/Model/Year of the car?


1999 Pontiac Grand Am
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
go to your dealer, have them pull the trouble code, that will give you a starting point to find the problem, welcome to the 21st century.

as damiler said to benz, "we got spark,we got gas,auto oughta run"


Last time I did that, they charged me $45 for the effort.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: LAWCobra on March 07, 2004, 07:38:48 PM
I would bet fuel filter if it has never been changed.
If its that computer crap then I dont know what to say but what has already been said.

They will have to read the codes at the dealer.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: Habu on March 07, 2004, 07:46:20 PM
I had that problem once it was a cracked distributor cap. Moisture got under it.

I have had diesals for years now. Do they still have distributors in those cars or is it a module now? If it is the distributor take the cap off and clean it well check the spark at the cap when you crank by pulling off the ht lead and gapping it to the metal of the engine. If it sparks then suspect the cap. If no spark then trace back from there.

Of course that car was a 1988 Peugot 504 which was about a simple a car to work on mechanically as they come.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: Saurdaukar on March 07, 2004, 08:10:49 PM
Could be something as simple as battery charge or alternator.

Could also be something slightly more serious.

If the car has a history of doing this and 'getting better in the morning' take it to a shop.

Cars dont 'get better' they need to be fixed.  Best to do it now instead of wait until it dies at the worst possible time.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: zmeg on March 07, 2004, 09:00:42 PM
It's your fuel pump.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: Capt. Pork on March 07, 2004, 09:05:59 PM
Saurdaukar stole its soul. Ask for it back.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: Holden McGroin on March 07, 2004, 09:36:41 PM
1. Where are you from?

2. How to you spell your name? With an E on the end?

3. What do you do for a living?

4. What color is your car?

5. Can you mimic the sound your car makes?

6. Does this happen more when the gas tank is half empty or when it is half full?

7. Let's ask my brother....
Title: if its a 2.3 motor
Post by: doobs on March 07, 2004, 09:45:41 PM
its the coil housing known to get moisture in it, bet thats it, if it is change the spark plug boots and housing. BTW I work for A GM Dealer. notorious in 2.3. Not completely sure if the still uised 2.3 in 99. If ya want you can email me the last 8 digits of your vin and I can look for bulletins at work tommorrow.   Also if your check engine light has not come on a scan tool will be worthless. unless u know how to use a tech 2 and grab a snapshot when stall occurs.

Lastly if ya have a 125 trans and it stalls coming to a light its the TCC solenoid in trans.  parts in Gm would be a 8689901 for 4 cyl and a 8689902 for 6 cyl. with a 8678169 side cover gasket.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: capt. apathy on March 07, 2004, 09:46:26 PM
a lot of parts stores will loan you a reader, or rent them for very little.

alos try pulling a plug wire and see if you are getting spark.
if you are then unhook your fuel line at the injector rail and crank it for a second to see if you're getting fuel.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: rpm on March 07, 2004, 09:55:01 PM
Go to the parts store and buy a Chilton's or Haynes manual for your car. They cost about $20. It will tell you how to get and read the codes without a reader and tell you how to fix the problem yourself. Usually it's something minor that you can do with basic tools.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: Steve on March 07, 2004, 10:13:27 PM
Your symptoms are also those of a broken timing chain/belt.... are you a religious man?
Title: defintetly not chain
Post by: doobs on March 07, 2004, 10:21:59 PM
if it was car would never restart, and with broken chain and would of made hell of a racket
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: Steve on March 07, 2004, 10:52:48 PM
Not always Doobs this I know from experience.


edit: and I wasn't talking about the previous time when it restarted, I was refering to this episode only.
Title: well
Post by: doobs on March 07, 2004, 11:09:49 PM
if the chain breaks then the cams dont turn so the valves don't open and car wont start.  and if it broke with a wide open valves the the heads would have to be rebuilt cause pistons would ram into the open valves. but wouldn't start many times after that.
And if it's the dual over head cam engine then game over pay up.

IMHO
Coming from almost 20 years of GM Dealer experience.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: MrCoffee on March 07, 2004, 11:46:11 PM
If your starter in turning over and it sounds healthy then there are only two possabilities (usually). Fuel or electric. Since it is an American car, I would say its probaly not the fuel pump but you can check this. Turn on the ignition but dont start the car and listen for the fuel pump to charge the fuel system. Sounds like a click then buzz sound as it must charge the initial pressure in the fuel lines up to +40 psi around there for fuel injected cars. If your car is FI and you cant make out the sound of the fuel pump, this could be suspect. I hope your car is FI.

Else electrical issues...

Remove the distributor cap, and check for moisture, cracks, elect burnouts etc... damage. Same for coil area. Check cables from coil to distributor, to plugs.

Go get or borrow a multimeter. Pref an automotive one but it does not really matter.

multimeter (http://www.doctronics.co.uk/meter.htm)

Use that to check for electrical charge on the ignition systems cables (cable from coil to distributor, plugs etc...).

Beyond that you'll need the manual for that years model of your car. There are alot of potential things you may want to check listed in the repair manual. You would check for voltage and ohms. Dont be afraid to pull off the ignition system cables and plug the red multimeter cable to it. you should get volts when you start your car.

Sometimes it could just be a loose wire...

I once reconnected a loose sensor on the intake manifold fo a 944S and it started right up. Check your FI-puter sensor cables.

You can also try to get the puters error code. Good luck.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: pugg666 on March 07, 2004, 11:56:44 PM
And here's the most important question no has asked yet.....

When it stopped did it just shut off like normal (EI when you turn the key), did it seem like the engine was still trying to move the car, or did it just sorta sputter (SP :D ) and die?

oh and Doobs its a 2.4 litre, not 2.3 ;) ....2.3 litre is Honda not GM
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: Steve on March 08, 2004, 12:28:46 AM
Doobs, that's why I asked if he was a religious man.   :D
Title: GM USED
Post by: doobs on March 08, 2004, 07:26:32 AM
3 variations of the 2.3 the a,d and 3 version of the motor. It was used from 1988 to 1995.  but after talking to some of the guys in shop they are leaning towards trans pres. control sol. valve. which has been redesigned 2 times since 1998. part #10478146
for the 4t40-e trans.  or possibly vac leak by the pcv seperator, if it's the 2.4..  If it's the 3.4 no seperator.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: zmeg on March 08, 2004, 08:08:34 AM
Doobs, whoever told you that a pressure control soluinoid in the transaxle whould cause a car not to start isn't very bright. (and BTW its the 4T65 not the 4T40 that has a problem with the pressure solinoid) The coil housing is also unlikely because it would cause a severe skipping problem long before it ever caused a no start condition. I also work in a GM dealership, I dont do driveability though, I'm a transmission speacialist. We have 2 guys who do nothing but driveability and they spend more time replacing fuel pumps than everything else combined.
Title: wasn't for no start
Post by: doobs on March 08, 2004, 09:06:01 AM
it was for stalling, coming to stop.      interesting that they put nothing but pumps in we have used fuel module 25317984 which lists for 478.48. we have only sold 4 in the last year and have not sold one since october.  And that pump fits all n bodies in 99.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: AdmRose on March 08, 2004, 11:05:46 AM
Well this is all been helpful, I'll see if I can get her started and take her the two blocks to the local service station. At least now I have some ideas as to what to tell them.

Doobs - if you give me your email I'll get ya the last 8 digits of VIN.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: AdmRose on March 08, 2004, 01:24:53 PM
After trying to start it again (with no luck) I am starting to lean towards the fuel system. The car cranks and cranks but will not start. It sounded like the time I tried to start my old Celebrity after it ran out of gas. When the car died, it sounded just like it would after turning it off. Also, the service engine soon light was on when the key was in the on position.
So, with these new facts, any ideas now?
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: zmeg on March 08, 2004, 05:35:55 PM
There is a pressure tap on your fuel rail where you can easily check your fuel pressure. Just screw the cap off and attach an old ac guage to it if you have access to one (they're usless for ac work now) If you dont have a guage available just use any small object such as a pen or a key to open the valve as if you were letting air out of a tire (dont let it spray you in the face) Even without the switch being on it will be holding 30 to 40 psi. If you get a strong spray out of it, your fuel system is ok. If you just get a trickle turn on the switch and check again, if you still get just a trickle replace the fuel pump.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: Steve on March 08, 2004, 06:12:07 PM
....and still the possibility  of a broken timing belt/chain loomed.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: Steve on March 08, 2004, 06:14:11 PM
Adam, check for spark too... I'd do that before you had fuel/fumes from checking fuel pressure.

Edit:  how many miles on it?
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: AdmRose on March 08, 2004, 09:09:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Adam, check for spark too... I'd do that before you had fuel/fumes from checking fuel pressure.

Edit:  how many miles on it?


67,500 miles
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: Steve on March 08, 2004, 10:42:40 PM
Well with those miles, it really doesn't eliminate things from wearing out.  Check spark and fuel like folks mentioned... you will really be able to narrow things down from there.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: AdmRose on March 09, 2004, 05:08:34 PM
Got it checked today. Fuel pump it is.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: LAWCobra on March 09, 2004, 06:09:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AdmRose
Got it checked today. Fuel pump it is.


LoL i was close (fuel filter) glad you got it fixed.
Title: Little automobile enigma
Post by: Steve on March 09, 2004, 07:29:39 PM
Phew!  Glad to hear it.  :)