Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AdmRose on March 07, 2004, 08:29:10 PM
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I have heard a lot of negative commentary about fascism on this BBS, and I just want this thread to clear up a lot of the issues relating to it. The only reason, in my opinion, that fascism has a bad name is due to its relationship with Italy and especially Nazi Germany. There, the military control was used to carry out the agendas of the leaders of those respective movements. I in no way, shape, or form condone that. The military should be used to maintain order and prevent active dissent, NOT crush political opponents or grouped deemed as "dangerous." Now I know I'm going to hear the social scientists defending republican and democratic governments, but consider this:
1) Less than half the country votes in the Presidential election.
2) Two thirds of the Senate have been involved in a criminal action or civil lawsuit of some sort in the time in the Senate.
3) The dual party system functionally ensures that nothing important is ever accomplished. If the democrats want it, the republics will veto it. If the republicans want it, the democrats will kill it.
I am of the opinion the system has failed, or, save for that, is failing. Freedom of speech, religion, and basic civil liberties need NOT be done away with in a fascist society. A militaristic society would be better for protecting the American people from outside threats. Think...a country that works without the bureaucracy that is the current government, with laws proposed by popular vote and adopted by the same system. No overly political House or Senate that work to please only his or her constituents, or overly influential lobbying groups that all but run the government. No hidden agendas, no corruption, and no centralized power base. Citizen rule, with only an executive counsel to sign bills into law and control the military, with this counsel being elected for life and subject to impeachment for misconduct.
Voting rights should not be inherent in this society, as the average voter has no comprehension of the facts or the consequences of his vote. Voting rights need to be earned, not given.
I, personally, believe that the United States could function as a fascist government, better then a democratic government as it is far more efficient. I welcome comments and criticisms; I expect a lot of the latter.
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Uhhhm, no....
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I'm going to have to go with Grunherz here.
The political parties don't kill bills just to grief the other party. They kill the bills because they believe they are wrong.
And last time I checked, here in America, we are allowed to believe whatever we want...
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
And last time I checked, here in America, we are allowed to believe whatever we want...
I'm not denying that, I'm simply saying that those rights would be preserved.
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It's skipping off of the top of my head as to who said, "Every man would be a tyrant if given the chance."
You give a fascistic government opportunity to get rid of these liberties and it will. Hell, i'd even bet money on it because "Every man would be a tyrant if given the chance."
Most of the things you listed as to solutions would be easily manipulated. That's why they are worded that way.
The military should be used to maintain order and prevent active dissent,
NOT crush political opponents or grouped deemed as "dangerous."
Whoop! Whoop! Oxymoron alert! All hands to battlestations!
Freedom of speech, religion, and basic civil liberties need NOT be done away with in a fascist society
The military should be used to maintain order and prevent active dissent,
Whoop! Whoop! More oxymorons off the port bow!
A militaristic society would be better for protecting the American people from outside threats.
The military should be used to maintain order and prevent active dissent,
Whoop! Whoop! THE OXYMORONS SIR! THEY'RE OVERWHELMING US!
No hidden agendas, no corruption, and no centralized power base.
The military should be used to maintain order and prevent active dissent,
with only an executive counsel to sign bills into law and control the military,
We're going down sir! The oxymorons have overwhelmed us! ABANDON SHIP! ABANDON SHIP!
Citizen rule,
with only an executive counsel to sign bills into law and control the military, with this counsel being elected for life and subject to impeachment for misconduct.
JESUS SIR! We're already sinking and they are still firing at us! Those relentless oxymorons!
Voting rights need to be earned, not given.
Freedom of speech, religion, and basic civil liberties need NOT be done away with in a fascist society.
*Sound of no orders being given because the Oxymorons have crushed all*
No overly political House or Senate that work to please only his or her constituents,
Man. Voting how your constituents want. Who ever thought of this crazy Republican system idea? They should be shot!
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
It's skipping off of the top of my head as to who said, "Every man would be a tyrant if given the chance."
A notable exception is George Washington. He astounded his contemporaries when he bid farewell to the troops, and again when he stepped down after two terms as president. He had the chance to become dictator but remained true to his cause.
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Don't you know anything? George Washington was a member of the illuminati; he never needed to become a dictator :D
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Man. Voting how your constituents want. Who ever thought of this crazy Republican system idea? They should be shot!
I meant that in modern times politicians cater more towards high budget lobbying groups then actual grassroots groups. Don't believe me? Try to get a law detrimental to the tobacco industry even proposed in Congress.
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Wait, let me see if I get this right.
You are defending fascism?
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If you ever decide to run for Gov. of California, MSNBC will dig up this thread and youre screwed.
Best to delete it now. :eek:
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"""The dual party system functionally ensures that nothing important is ever accomplished"""
thats the whole idea, "a govt that governs least , governs best"
as long as they keep fighting among themselves , the govt leaves the people alone.
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So just because in the past facism has always resulted in wholesale murder and the quashing of individual rights, that is no reason to expect that this pattern would continue and that facism in the US would take on a kind gentle aspect that is totally foreign to its nature?
Hooligan
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Originally posted by Connection
Wait, let me see if I get this right.
You are defending fascism?
Hell no ... he's promoting it. :eek: :D
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fuqhing skinhead.
you're entitled to an opinion, even tho' it's sorely misguided.
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Without a doubt, the best form of government is a benevolent dictatorship. However, the benevolent dictator dies and leaves a hostile incompetent in charge.
It took Europe hundreds of years to emasculate the power of the royal ruling families and attendent dukes/princes & etc.
Democracy by its nature is sloppy and inefficient. Heh, that's why it works for us. To gain true political power in the US, you must move to the center politically.
curly
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Originally posted by AdmRose
The military should be used to maintain order and prevent active dissent, NOT crush political opponents or grouped deemed as "dangerous."
suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship is a primary function of fascist government
Freedom of speech, religion, and basic civil liberties need NOT be done away with in a fascist society.
...with laws proposed by popular vote and adopted by the same system.
popular vote has as an underpinning the acceptance of political opposition; a fascist society supresses the opposition, therefore popular vote and fascism cannot coexist.
No hidden agendas, no corruption, and no centralized power base. Citizen rule, with only an executive counsel to sign bills into law and control the military, with this counsel being elected for life and subject to impeachment for misconduct.
Fascism is by definition centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader. A dictator has absolute power and therefore is absolutely corrupt.
Voting rights need to be earned, not given.
People do not earn rights, people are 'endowed by their Creator' with rights.
I, personally, believe that the United States could function as a fascist government, better then a democratic government as it is far more efficient. I welcome comments and criticisms; I expect a lot of the latter.
Merriam Webster; Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
It was either Mark Twain or Will Rogers who said "Thank God we don't get all the government we pay for."
I think most Americans believe the same and will gladly trade off some efficiency for freedom.
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I think all the Americans who died 60 years ago to defeat Fascism even if it was on another continent enslaving other people would probably disagree with you.
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"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse (generous gifts) from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the world's greatest civilization has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence. From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back into bondage."
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Be careful of what you ask
We (Italy) already experimented Fascism.
An hint for free:
"Fascism is evil"
Dont tell me I did'nt warn you.
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But Benito made the trains run on time.... you saying it wasn't a fair trade? Freedom for a predictable train schedule?
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Saying the Nazis gave fascism a bad name is like saying Sydney Cook tarnished the reputation of paedophiles everywhere.
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Fascism is good for you... right.
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I hate all ism's they stand for freakout.
Never heard of peacefull human fasicts anyway
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and gun control... don't forget gun control... All good fascists do the best job of any government barring commies of disarming the populace... for good reason.
lazs
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Connection: Wait, let me see if I get this right.
You are defending fascism?
You have to take AdmRose in context. He is not defending fascism in general. He is promoting american fascism.
It is those pesky foreigners that always screw up whatever they do, be it fascism, aggression, democracy, extermination, etc.
American fascism will undoubtedly be good and an object of pride for all american patriots.
miko
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A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse (generous gifts) from the public treasury
Thankfully, this doesn't apply to the U.S. as the U.S. is not a democracy.
I don't know about fascism but I do expect that one day there will be another revolution in the U.S. As the liberals continue to gain power and tax those that would succeed on their own in order to redistribute the wealth to those who have their hands out, as the liberals chip away at our rights and the fabric of our society with ideas like gun control, political correctness, gay rights, lax approach to our borders... our country declines.
One day, those remaining that do not believe the U.S. should be a socialist state will take up arms... or perhaps carve out some land and secede. If I am still able, I will unbury the arms that the liberals could not find as they came around to confiscate them and join those that believe in our constitutional rights.
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I like cheese.
Carry on.
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I HATE ILLINOIS NAZIS !!!
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I like toast.
I like cheese.
What kind of cheese?
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
If you ever decide to run for Gov. of California, MSNBC will dig up this thread and youre screwed.
Best to delete it now. :eek:
Thats ok, if I ever run for governor of California - please - have me killed.
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Mozarella.
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Wonder if my keyboard floats
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Originally posted by miko2d
Connection: Wait, let me see if I get this right.
You are defending fascism?
You have to take AdmRose in context. He is not defending fascism in general. He is promoting american fascism.
It is those pesky foreigners that always screw up whatever they do, be it fascism, aggression, democracy, extermination, etc.
American fascism will undoubtedly be good and an object of pride for all american patriots.
miko
Mmmmmmmm......
I am really in trouble to understand if the above it's irony or...... something else.
:confused:
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adamrose... when the bald guys with the swastica tattoos there in pa pass out the leaflets... it's ok to take one but if you read it you should try to do the research before you post here.
lazs
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Originally posted by GScholz
This theory generalizes human nature too much. Every time someone in the world votes for a socialist party the theory is proven wrong. However ... it is nice of you to finally make your position on Fascism clear.
Dont tell me, tell the author of that text you dumb f u c k. Im quite sure he would be intrigued to hear your verdict on his political stance.
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Originally posted by lazs2
and gun control... don't forget gun control... All good fascists do the best job of any government barring commies of disarming the populace... for good reason.
lazs
LOL, Lazs, talking about personal agendas in everything! ;)
BTW, I agree with you here:
Originally posted by lazs2
adamrose... when the bald guys with the swastica tattoos there in pa pass out the leaflets... it's ok to take one but if you read it you should try to do the research before you post here.
lazs
:)
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naso... you don't agree that fascists are the best at getting guns out of the hands of their citizens?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
naso... you don't agree that fascists are the best at getting guns out of the hands of their citizens?
lazs
The bests?
maybe, I will put on the first place communist dictatorates, fascists like to have the fascists activists armed to have a better control of society.
So, in case Amurrica becomes a new fascist regime, subscribe to the fascist party, I bet you will be allowed to bear arms.
;)
BTW, I was just joking on the fact that you dont lose occasion to put your "gun-control" war in everything.
Anyway, the final weapon of mass control sit in your/our house, generally in the honor place, emit light, and is commonly called:
TV
:eek:
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"All good fascists do the best job of any government barring commies of disarming the populace... for good reason. "
naso.. that is what I really said. So, we agree... commies first then fascists for most effective gun control? I would say that socialists would be next on the list and free countries last.
So far as the fascists thinking me one of their own and leaving me armed.... I would say that anyone wishing to control me would be ill advised in leaving me armed.
lazs
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Yes, we agree. :)
Originally posted by lazs2
So far as the fascists thinking me one of their own and leaving me armed.... I would say that anyone wishing to control me would be ill advised in leaving me armed.
lazs
That's the idea ;)
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Yeah and commies taught, that if you centralize production and distribution, you will become efficent. Holds water in laboratory, but not outside.
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Skinheads are violent, middle age white men that don't get any looking for any excuse to beat the living **** out of something.
I am a social theorist. Get it right.
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no... you are a child.
lazs
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Originally posted by AdmRose
I am a social theorist.
Obviously, you're not a very good one.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by AdmRose
I, personally, believe that the United States could function as a fascist government, better then a democratic government as it is far more efficient. I welcome comments and criticisms; I expect a lot of the latter.
If you will compare nazi to russian commies and then to US administration, it will appear that there are not same. But the way, how all of these parties convince own people is absolutly same. Result and way are in all cases same, leading party is heaing to their "private" goal. The only one diference is in their public attitude, whitch must fit local folk.
Very interesting political system is running in UK
Fact, that democracy is not nothing good is few thousand years old. But we have computers and 'freedom', so we are indeed way smarter that people of that time.
Anyway there were few more HC nazi countries in europe include Slovakia. Slovakia turn, where the wind blow :)
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AdmRose,
You're right about one thing. Fascism has been inextricably linked with Nazi Germany and Mussolini's Italy...and for good reason.
Francisco Franco's regime was the only fascist government to survive WWII...and look at the financial and political mess it was in when he finally died.
Yep...I can see where the fascist system has proven its worth.
Regards, Shuckins/Leggern
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Just thought of this...a quote from the movie "Spartacus" sums it up best...
"I'll take a little Republican corruption along with a little Republican freedom anyday...but what I WON'T take, is Crassus as Dictator and NO FREEDOM AT ALL!"
Shuckins/Leggern
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Humans are weak Rose. But they like to believe that they are all powerful. Hence, "Any man can be a tyrant if given the chance."
Which, ironically was said by a woman back in American Revolutionary Times.
Democracy doesn't work outside of anything bigger then a zipcode. It's failed twice alone in the US. Communism doesn't work because it'll eventually crumble upon it's own ashes. It's failed countless amounts of times in the world. Facism doesn't work because it just pisses too many people off. Just look at europe early '40's. Monarchies don't work because eventually the peasents realise that their pitch forks poke holes might fine. Take a look at anywhere a Monarchy is / was. Anarchies don't work because they evolve into the first 4.
So basically we are left with a Republic system. A mix of the strongest points of Democracy and some of the Stronger points of Facism. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's a Democracy or Facistic state. Yet, for some wierd reason, everyone has all the freedoms they should have, yet all the responsibilities that they need.
So, what i'm trying to get at is "Why are you really trying to promote a Facistic government?" And don't give me crap like you have so far in this post. I'm honestly curious.