Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Vulcan on March 08, 2004, 03:47:19 PM
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For New Zealand, an overall drop, notice the drop in homocides, kind of shoots down your gun law theories for the rest of the world:
09 March 2004
By HAYDON DEWES
Though crime rates are down in most of New Zealand, Wellington has recorded the biggest increase with house burglaries and thefts from cars skyrocketing.
Police statistics for 2003, issued yesterday, show a 0.5 per cent rise in the total number of offences recorded nationally, from 440,129 in 2002 to 442,489, but offences per 10,000 population have dropped 1.2 per cent.
Police also solved 8075 more crimes than in 2002 – a jump from 41.9 per cent to 43.5 per cent.
Recorded sexual offences dropped 7.4 per cent compared with an increase of 12.8 per cent for the previous year.
Homicides dropped from 122 to 104. There were 20 fewer murders – 46 last year compared with 66 in 2002.
Police put 200 clandestine methamphetamine laboratories out of action last year as against 147 in 2002.
Drugs and antisocial crimes rose 6.2 per cent, with Sale of Liquor Act offences soaring 138.4 per cent, from 1801 to 4293, primarily because of breaches of local liquor bans.
Eight of the twelve districts recorded decreases in offences per 10,000 population. Northland had the biggest reduction (7.1 per cent), followed by Waikato (7 per cent) and Counties Manukau (5.4 per cent).
Wellington recorded the biggest increase of 4.8 per cent, with house burglaries jumping from 3201 in 2002 to 4126, a 28.9 per cent rise compared to a national average of 6.3 per cent.
Thefts from cars rose by 17.2 per cent, from 5387 to 6314. The national average was a drop of 0.8 per cent.
Wellington's district commander,
Superintendent Rob Pope, said the statistics were "deeply disappointing". He had pulled together the region's five area commanders to work out how to reverse the figures.
"When you take away violence and sexual offending, burglary is probably the most violating crime the public in general is likely to experience."
A reallocation of road policing staff to focus solely on "bulk offences" such as burglary was out of the question because funding had been specifically earmarked to concentrate on traffic enforcement.
The Central police district, which includes Palmerston North and Wanganui, recorded a 1.4 per cent drop in crime, from 34,934 offences in 2002 to 34,452, its seventh consecutive decrease since 1996. The drop per 10,000 population was 1.5 per cent.
Palmerston North area commander Inspector Pat Handcock said the city had experienced a 0.7 per cent increase in crime in 2003 but had recorded a 6 per cent drop in total crime during the first month of 2004.
The Eastern police district, which includes Hawke's Bay and Gisborne, had a decrease of 3.9 per cent in total crime (4.2 per cent per 10,000 population) and solved about half of recorded crime.
However, sexual offences almost doubled – from 191 in 2002 to 346 last year – while violent offending rose 11.1 per cent.
Police Commissioner Rob Robinson said he was concerned about the 1.5 per cent rise in violent crime, which included a 6.1 per cent rise in grievous assaults, but regarded the figures as a "tremendous result".
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sorry to defate your ego, but New Zealand is not "'the rest of the world", it's just two tiny little islands in the pacific.
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Originally posted by john9001
sorry to defate your ego, but New Zealand is not "'the rest of the world", it's just two tiny little islands in the pacific.
Yeah but they got all them sheep man:D
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I would like to thank the people of New Zealand...and WETA....and...
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Yeah there are no other differences between the US and NZ other than gun ownership. :rolleyes:
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One of them talks funny.
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Ah shyaddup Vulcan, you mini-aussie. :p
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Idont care what yall say Victoria Pratt is from NZ so NZ is OK in my book:aok
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Originally posted by john9001
sorry to defate your ego, but New Zealand is not "'the rest of the world", it's just two tiny little islands in the pacific.
So, the point is that a statement was made that in countries with strict gunlaws violent crime was increasing, and with relaxed gunlaws it was decreasing.
I would also suggest you take some geography lessons... heres a start: New Zealand is 1600 kilometres (1000 miles) in length and is made up of two major islands: North, 115,000 square kilometres (44,000 square miles); and South, 151,000 square kilometres (58,300 square miles).
Yes thats right you stereotypical uneducated amerikan, NZ is about the same size in square miles as colorado (oh and bigger than the UK).
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Originally posted by Vulcan
So, the point is that a statement was made that in countries with strict gunlaws violent crime was increasing, and with relaxed gunlaws it was decreasing.
I would also suggest you take some geography lessons... heres a start: New Zealand is 1600 kilometres (1000 miles) in length and is made up of two major islands: North, 115,000 square kilometres (44,000 square miles); and South, 151,000 square kilometres (58,300 square miles).
Yes thats right you stereotypical uneducated amerikan, NZ is about the same size in square miles as texas (oh and bigger than the UK).
You guys are only reading what you want to see.
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So... 20 less murders (down from 66)... and 900 more home burglaries in one city alone.
What were you saying these stats proved again? That the presence of firearms in a society makes you more or less safe in your home?
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
So... 20 less murders (down from 66)... and 900 more home burglaries in one city alone.
What were you saying these stats proved again? That the presence of firearms in a society makes you more or less safe in your home?
MiniD
That was attributed to the gun-toting-cowboy-Amerikan film crews working on LOTR in Wellington, The Last Samurai in Taranaki, and whatever Magnum PI is filming in Auckland.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Excerpt A.
For New Zealand, an overall drop, notice the drop in homocides, kind of shoots down your gun law theories for the rest of the world:
Excerpt B
Yes thats right you stereotypical uneducated amerikan, NZ is about the same size in square miles as texas (oh and bigger than the UK).
Excerpt C
That was attributed to the gun-toting-cowboy-Amerikan film crews working on LOTR in Wellington, The Last Samurai in Taranaki, and whatever Magnum PI is filming in Auckland.
Quick poll: Is this guy getting:
A.) Progressively more angry
B.) Progressively more drunk
C.) Progressively more stupid
D.) All of the above
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"Yes thats right you stereotypical uneducated amerikan, NZ is about the same size in square miles as texas (oh and bigger than the UK)."
Uhhhm no, texas is more than twice as big, NZ is about 270000 sq km while texas is about 700,000. You are bigger than UK though, but UK is a small island.
Anyway NZ then really is a collection of some small islands.
How poor is NZ education then?
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Texas? I never said anything about Texas?
Ahhh but add in our sea zone thingy, Stewart Island, our slice of Antartica and I bet we're bigger than texas
Does this mean the USA is just a collection of small states then?
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You said texas.... But now, having been embarassed,
you have gone back and changed it and try to lie about it..
I guess NZ schools suck at both georgrapy and ethics... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
You said texas.... But now, having been embarassed,
you have gone back and changed it and try to lie about it..
I guess NZ schools suck at both georgrapy and ethics... :rolleyes:
Yup, I was there. I saw it. He said Texas and now the post has been edited.
Personally, I don't even see why he bothers to open his mouth. LOTR got done filming a while ago and New Zealand, with all its sheep, couldn't even put together the world's finest bale of wool:
Link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4440212/)
But on a serious note, what the F are you blabbering about? A nation's land area is irrelevant in this study(especially when most of the land is reserved for sheep grazing). It's the population that makes the difference. 4 million VS 290 million. Los Angeles alone has subcities that would outnumber vast regions of your entire nation.
In America, we believe that the purpose of science is to serve mankind. You, however, seem to regard science as some kind of dodge or hustle. Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy and your conclusions are highly questionable. You, Dr. Venkman, are a poor scientist.
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OK so I missed square km vs square miles (you guys have no sense of humour). Still, we aren't 'tiny'.
The point is, Lazs made a statement regarding crime and gun laws outside the USA, this refutes it.
BTW, LOTR work was still being done right up til Nov '03.... now they're starting on Kong.
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Once again, you are tiny. 4 million residents qualifies you as just that. You're as good as 5 Delawares, if you go by the numbers. The fact that you live on a piece of land that's big only makes your comparison less significant, because violent crime is largely a factor of population density.
The fact that Hollywood is using your land to film movies only points to the fact that you're an inexpensive alternative as far as permits and Union regulations. They use Canada for the same reasons, which, btw, outnumers New Zealand 7 to 1.
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
Once again, you are tiny. 4 million residents qualifies you as just that. You're as good as 5 Delawares, if you go by the numbers. The fact that you live on a piece of land that's big only makes your comparison less significant, because violent crime is largely a factor of population density.
The fact that Hollywood is using your land to film movies only points to the fact that you're an inexpensive alternative as far as permits and Union regulations. They use Canada for the same reasons, which, btw, outnumers New Zealand 7 to 1.
It must be painful to sit down with that slide ruler up your arse.
Excel
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New Zealand crams a population equivalent to that of metropolitan Los Angeles into an area the size of Colorado?
Uh..... anyone noticed a link between population density and high crime?
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You mean, it's not a fair comparison? So comparing crime statistics to make a point about cause and effect in one region as opposed to another is null and void in this case?
Strange. I seem to remember some promoting of a certain report apparently showing that gun restrictions had no positive effect on crime rate not so long ago...
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I remember it too... can you remember what was initially posted that drew the response?
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Originally posted by Vulcan
For New Zealand, an overall drop, notice the drop in homocides, kind of shoots down your gun law theories for the rest of the world:
Homicides dropped from 122 to 104. There were 20 fewer murders – 46 last year compared with 66 in 2002.
Though crime rates are down in most of New Zealand, Wellington has recorded the biggest increase with house burglaries and thefts from cars skyrocketing.
Drugs and antisocial crimes rose 6.2 per cent, with Sale of Liquor Act offences soaring 138.4 per cent, from 1801 to 4293, primarily because of breaches of local liquor bans.
Wellington recorded the biggest increase of 4.8 per cent, with house burglaries jumping from 3201 in 2002 to 4126, a 28.9 per cent rise compared to a national average of 6.3 per cent.
Thefts from cars rose by 17.2 per cent, from 5387 to 6314. The national average was a drop of 0.8 per cent.
Wellington's district commander,
"When you take away violence and sexual offending, burglary is probably the most violating crime the public in general is likely to experience."
However, sexual offences almost doubled – from 191 in 2002 to 346 last year – while violent offending rose 11.1 per cent.
Police Commissioner Rob Robinson said he was concerned about the 1.5 per cent rise in violent crime, which included a 6.1 per cent rise in grievous assaults, but regarded the figures as a "tremendous result".
Here are the ones where crime rose - murder excepted.
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No idea. But I would guess it was Beetle and his battery of statistics.
Two wrongs certainly don't make a right. Flawed analysis on top of flawed analysis just makes for merry-go-round debates... hey, wait a minute...
Personally, I'd go with Michael Moore's observation (the only one worth keeping) in that there is something about America itself which has led to an elevated homicide rate. It's not the proliferation of guns itself, given how low gun crime rates are in countries with similarly lax gun control. I think that is the real issue, and it doesn't seem to be on many people's agenda. Both sides want to ignore it; one concentrates on blaming firearms, the other on the protection of firearm proliferation as a fundamental right.
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Or even three wrongs.
Like there are no crime statistics/laws that can be used to investigate cause and effect in one region as opposed to another, especially when a large number of regions and laws are compared.
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I'd like to see this all encompassing, multi-variable, socio-economic study you're referring to. Otherwise, your approach is as simplistic as the 'guns = crime' argument used by some gun control proponents.
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Originally posted by Excel1
It must be painful to sit down with that slide ruler up your arse.
Excel
You need a slide rule to divide 28 by 4?
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I think Dowding has a point here.
And now this BBS will explode with another multi digit flame thread.
WHOOOSHHHH !!!!
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Does this mean the USA is just a collection of small states then?
Yes. The UK has repeatedly been described as a "tiny little island" on this board. It's actually a collection of islands - possibly two dozen different land masses - I haven't counted them all. But overall, these combine to make a land area about the size of Oregon, America's 10th largest state. So our "tiny little island" is therefore larger than about 40 US states. Therefore if our country is tiny and little, it follows that America is composed in prt of 40 tiny little states.
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Dowding, would you say that crime states across all nations generally show a relationship between areas of high population density and high crime.
IE: That the high density areas of New Zealand tend to have more crime and the same holds true in say... the US, Canada, UK, Germany, etc.?
Or are you saying no broad based comparisons can be valid?
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yes... America is compossed of 40 tiny little states no bigger than say... england and.... 10 whopping big ones.
Are people in America naturaly more homicidal thatn people in NZ? well.... yeah... are people in Africa more homiciedal than people in england? are japs more suiicidal than swedes?
vulcan..Ok.. so... what gun laws did you pass that you dcredit this drop in crime to? did you have some ban that you believe made people less criminal? I would bet that if you allowed concealled carry and had more guns in your society that crime would have fallen even more.
you are a tiny little whitebread island.
you need a little "diversity" to understand... maybe you could import some africans or columbians or russians and we could look at your stats again? Hell.... you can't even handle a movie crew or two.
one thing is certain... any people stupid enough to throw away their right to defend themselves ends up with burglars out the butt... like limeyland... what a bunch of *****s. "go ahead and rob my house but pleeeeese don't make me look at those nasty guns!"
so... give up your rights or not... in your lttle whitebread island it won't make much difference..
lazs
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Originally posted by GScholz
Are you saying that Americans are just naturally more homicidal than New Zealanders (or the rest of the world for that matter)?
It's pretty much a given....
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well yeah.... unless of course you just take white Americans and then they are no more homicidal than say Canadians or little island dwellers. Alltogether tho... we are more homicidal.
wouldn't have it any other way. Guess that's why we will never understand each other.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
...you need a little "diversity" to understand... maybe you could import some africans or columbians or russians....
Originally posted by lazs2
[B.... unless of course you just take white Americans and then they are no more homicidal than say Canadians or little island dwellers.[/B]
So you are suggesting Homicides are related with ethnicity?
Or skin color?
:rofl
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I am not suggesting anything. I am stating that white Americans have the same homicide rate as say Canadians or tiny little island dwellers. I am also stating that africa has a very high homicide rate.
oh... I am also saying that negroes have a very high homicide rate in the U.S.
These are all facts. draw your own conclussions.
lazs
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Lazs really has no idea about the world outside the US. You'll find that France has a huge immigrant population. Same with Spain and Germany. The UK has plenty of everybody - in fact, Birmingham (Britain's second biggest city) will have a white minority by 2010. We have Somalians, Nigerians, Indians, Pakistanis, Bengalis etc etc etc as well a tonne of exiles from every tin pot dictatorship going. Multi-ethnicity has never been a solely American phenomenon and so I don't think it is the reason for your elevated homicide rates. Any other guesses?
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You call this a victory?????
I would rather shoot someone than let them break into my home and assualt my self or my family.
quote:
Wellington recorded the biggest increase of 4.8 per cent, with house burglaries jumping from 3201 in 2002 to 4126, a 28.9 per cent rise compared to a national average of 6.3 per cent.
Thefts from cars rose by 17.2 per cent, from 5387 to 6314. The national average was a drop of 0.8 per cent.
Wellington's district commander,
Superintendent Rob Pope, said the statistics were "deeply disappointing". He had pulled together the region's five area commanders to work out how to reverse the figures.
"When you take away violence and sexual offending, burglary is probably the most violating crime the public in general is likely to experience."
Drugs and antisocial crimes rose 6.2 per cent, with Sale of Liquor Act offences soaring 138.4 per cent, from 1801 to 4293, primarily because of breaches of local liquor bans
However, sexual offences almost doubled – from 191 in 2002 to 346 last year – while violent offending rose 11.1 per cent
Police Commissioner Rob Robinson said he was concerned about the 1.5 per cent rise in violent crime, which included a 6.1 per cent rise in grievous assaults, but regarded the figures as a "tremendous result".
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Ya, that a real victory, no thanks you can have your "safe" country, Ill keep the USA. Btw, I have never heard of a home invasion in Montana, unless you want to call it suicide...lol
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and the countries you name are enjoying a rise in crime.
White Americans have the same homicide rate as say Canada. It's that simple. I draw no conclussions from this except that if all the black crime went away we would still have guns and our crime would be lower than most countries. We would still have guns too. In the U.S. more guns equals less crime. Homicides are not the only type of crime. I don't want to be huddled up in my locked room while the burglars are going through my stuff hopeing that they don't trip or cut themselves on the broken glass and sue me.
lazs
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I only know this much for local homocides. Over half are gang-related.
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So what you are saying is that the homicide rate (per capita) among blacks in the US is considerably higher than among blacks in other countries? It would have to be to give the demonstrated stats.
Sounds like that is where your problem is.
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I would say that the homicide rate in black countries is considerably higher.... yes. I would guess that in countries with more than 10% blacks there is a higher percentage of crime amongst the blacks.
dowding... you claim that I know very little about the rest of the world... I claim I know as much as you and... I claim that you know nothing about the U.S.
lazs
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Originally posted by Dowding
So what you are saying is that the homicide rate (per capita) among blacks in the US is considerably higher than among blacks in other countries? It would have to be to give the demonstrated stats.
Sounds like that is where your problem is.
Educate yourself:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/teens.htm
When you get to this part>>
The victimization rates have generally declined for adults ages 25-34, 35-49, and 50 and over
then remind yourself that the highest gun ownership age range is 62 years and older, they possess over 33% of all handguns.
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Scroll to the bottom of this page and take a look at those stats:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/teens.htm
63.8 % of all homocides in the U.S. are from an age group of 18-34, of of that, 75.9% was drug related.
Thanks, 1960's...Peace Love, Drugs...lead to where we are today :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Scroll to the bottom of this page and take a look at those stats:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/teens.htm
63.8 % of all homocides in the U.S. are from an age group of 18-34, of of that, 75.9% was drug related.
Thanks, 1960's...Peace Love, Drugs...lead to where we are today :rolleyes:
<---- Stare at Rip's signature......
Ok... nevermind.
:lol :rofl :p
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Originally posted by Naso
<---- Stare at Rip's signature......
Ok... nevermind.
:lol :rofl :p
I know, I know, tough to argue with facts and data staring you in the face, isn't it? ;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I know, I know, tough to argue with facts and data staring you in the face, isn't it? ;)
ROTFLMAO !!!
Yes! Yes! :aok
[serious mode on]
This 18-24 age range of the higher percentage is interesting.
A worse gun-handling education?
Maybe?
Moral issues?
[serious mode off]
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I would guess that in countries with more than 10% blacks there is a higher percentage of crime amongst the blacks.
Look up 'arbitrary' in the dictionary and then explain where exactly that figure comes from.
you claim that I know very little about the rest of the world... I claim I know as much as you and... I claim that you know nothing about the U.S.
I don't claim to be an authority on the US. Never have done. You, on the other hand, wade into each and every discussion on guns (and some that aren't... or at least don't start out that way) with snipes at other countries like you know anything about them. Case in point; your comments recommending 'diversity' spotlight your ignorance.
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Originally posted by Naso
ROTFLMAO !!!
Yes! Yes! :aok
[serious mode on]
This 18-24 age range of the higher percentage is interesting.
A worse gun-handling education?
Maybe?
Moral issues?
[serious mode off]
Drugs, gangs.
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Originally posted by lazs2
yes... America is compossed of 40 tiny little states no bigger than say... england and.... 10 whopping big ones.
And the UK is about the size of the tenth of those whoppers. England itself (excluding Scotland, Wales and any islands) is, I believe, about the size of Illinois.
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If we lost a chunk the size of illinois... I doubt we would even notice.
dowding... having a little trouble understanding what you are trying to say. Are you saying that england france and germany have populations of blacks that exceeed 10%? or.. are you saying that the black homicide rate in the U.S. is not as claimed? or... are you saying that your blacks would never be as violent as ours even if the population of them % wise equaled ours?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
If we lost a chunk the size of illinois... I doubt we would even notice.
So it's the "tiny little islands" plus Scotland and Wales that transform an insignificant chunk to a total landmass which is on a par with Whopper US State #10?
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think of it this way beetle... think of yur whole island being a little Mexican chiuauwa doggie laying sleeping in socialist bliss on a barcalounger chair.... Now think of the U.S as a 350 lb guy who needs a place to sit and doesn't notice the aforementioned little doggie...
lazs
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Originally posted by Toad
Dowding, would you say that crime states across all nations generally show a relationship between areas of high population density and high crime.
IE: That the high density areas of New Zealand tend to have more crime and the same holds true in say... the US, Canada, UK, Germany, etc.?
Or are you saying no broad based comparisons can be valid?
Actually not necessarily. Wellington, the area that showed a crime increase (also where I live) isn't the highest population density area.
Also of note, the increase was in non-violent crime (burglaries and car thefts) - typically against property where no one was home/with the vehicle. When a burglary is commited here the burglar usually flees the scene without any violence. So heres a question, if we had an abundance of firearms like the USA, would those burglars have been tempted to hit residence where the home owner was home?
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Originally posted by lazs2
think of it this way beetle... think of yur whole island being a little Mexican chiuauwa doggie laying sleeping in socialist bliss on a barcalounger chair.... Now think of the U.S as a 350 lb guy who needs a place to sit and doesn't notice the aforementioned little doggie...
lazs
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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I'm asking where the 10% figure comes from. It seems very arbitrary to me. To what precision do you define that number?
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Originally posted by lazs2
think of it this way beetle... think of yur whole island being a little Mexican chiuauwa doggie laying sleeping in socialist bliss on a barcalounger chair.... Now think of the U.S as a 350 lb guy who needs a place to sit and doesn't notice the aforementioned little doggie...
lazs
And think of Dixon as a steaming türd. Which isn't so far from the truth! :lol
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Actually not necessarily. Wellington, the area that showed a crime increase (also where I live) isn't the highest population density area.
I didn't say highest, I said "high".
Wellington is not "rural", right?
I'm saying your cities overall have more crime than your countryside. I think this is pretty true across most industrialized countries?
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Depends what you're talking about, if its compared on a per capita ratio then it could be debatable.
For example:
"The Central police district, which includes Palmerston North and Wanganui, recorded a 1.4 per cent drop in crime, from 34,934 offences in 2002 to 34,452, its seventh consecutive decrease since 1996. The drop per 10,000 population was 1.5 per cent. Palmerston North area commander Inspector Pat Handcock said the city had experienced a 0.7 per cent increase in crime in 2003 but had recorded a 6 per cent drop in total crime during the first month of 2004."
This is a primarily rural area, with a 0.7 per cent increase in crime in 2003. If you dug deeper into the figures I wouldn't be suprised if the rural crime rates were higher per head than the urban, especially in the violent crimes area. Most of our gun related crimes/murders occur in rural areas (where gun ownership is more prevelant).
To put Wellington in perspective, the population is around 300,000 (I think), to get into a rural area only takes 10-15 minutes drive from the city center to rural farmland.
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I think you just have to compare crimes within and beyond the city limits.
I think there's probably a higher crime rate in the city limits than outside of them.
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beetle... Dixon is like any small city of about 20,000 but with nicer weather than most. the advantage is that with a tank of gas I can go in any direction and find just about any style of living that anyone could imagine...
dowding... 10% is arbitrary. I used it as a low figure. What is your problem with that number? Are you saying that a 1% black population would be significant enough to base stats on? What is your point? In the U.S. we have a very high rate of crime amongst the negro and minority population many of whom are not even citizens. It is enough that it accounts for the majority of our crime including homicides. I am telling you that using only white crime figures that our homicide rate is about the same as Canadas or yours. My guess is that if you had the same population makeup and borders as ours you would see the same problems.
you gave up yours and your fellow citizens rights for nothing.
lazs
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I would guess that in countries with more than 10% blacks there is a higher percentage of crime amongst the blacks.
This is what you said - effectively arguing that there was a 'critical mass' among black communities at which point crime suddenly escalates within the negro community.
You don't see a problem with plucking some random number out of the air to quantify your supposition?
If you don't see the problem with that, I suggest you avoid using any numbers at all in your arguments. Basically you're saying that because America's black/white ratio has exceeded your own arbitrary figure and other countries have not, your argument is statistically verified.
I hope you can see why that is bollocks.
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no... I made no such conclusions. I never claimed that all the negro crime is against other minorities. I also never claimed any critical mass... that was your conclusion. I just showed the facts and told you what my guess would be for your little island and the countries that YOU claimed were diverse. I don't call less than 10% "diverse" . I hope you see how blindly agnedized you sound.
lazs
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How else could that sentence be interpretted?
Countries with a 9.9% black population have a lesser black-on-black crime rate than those with a 10.1% black population.
I hope you realise how little sense you are making. You use the words 'guess' and 'fact' interchangeably.
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Oddly enough some Canadian praire provinces that border the states have a slightly higher homicide rate but they also have a higher gun owner percentage than their American neighbours. Also the province with the highest population density Ontario sits close to the bottom on the homocide stats.
IIRC white homocide works out to be something like 3.6 in the US and 1.8 in Canada (this is all homocides no stats on race here yet or the rate would be cut by 50%). Although the injuries caused by and children's deaths related to firearms is way over the top down south.
IIRC the states the largest portion of white homicide is relates to spouses killing one another, need i say which sex?
Hey Gun Laws don't kill people, people do right?
Laz makes some interesting points too bad he often sounds like an anus in the process.
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the gun homicide rates I have for confirmed white homicide in the U.S. is 1.8 per 100,000 just like Canada. We are talking about guns here right? Isn't Canada gun homicide
Dowding... just because the crime is higher against other blacks does not mean that they do not commit crime against whites.
lazs
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Now you are just being deliberately obtuse. I'm not talking about black-on-white crime and neither were you. You've completely missed the point I was making about your argument.
Oh well. I tried.
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dowding you are taking me out of context so I will make it clear as I am able... I believe that with less than 10% blacks you don't have a large enough number to get meaningful stats and... the makeup of a 1% black population of say, imported computer programers is much different than the urban breeding grounds of say a 10% population. I have no proof of this except for the examples of the U.S. and countries with very low or very high negro populations but.... you have nothing except wishful thinking to back you.
lazs
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You misunderstand again. I'm not seeking to back anything up. I'm simply highlighting how completely unfounded your supposedly statistically accurate views are in this case. I'm glad we finally agree.
Here you liberally sprinkle a few stats around the issue and then make an almighty leap of faith in the direction that most suits with nothing to fall back on. Not saying you do that in every instance, mind you.
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dowding, it was you who claimed "diversity" for england france and germany while I say that the numbers are statisticaly worthless until you get to about 10%.. At 1% you can be a lot more selective than at 10%..
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
the advantage is that with a tank of gas I can go in any direction and find just about any style of living that anyone could imagine...
ROFL :rofl
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Laz,
"the wheels on the bus go round and round...."
-See rips sig
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beetle.. what type of climate or environment can't I find within a tank of gas of Dixon?
lazs
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the gun homicide rates I have for confirmed white homicide in the U.S. is 1.8 per 100,000 just like Canada. We are talking about guns here right? Isn't Canada gun homicide
am telling you that using only white crime figures that our homicide rate is about the same as Canadas or yours.
Lazs, you keep repeating it, it's still not true. I don't think it will become true no matter how many times you say it.
From the FBI:
(Homicide) Offenders by population group
White
5,356
Black
5,579
Other
274
Unkown
4,604
White population of US according to CIA world factbook 223,600,000 (June 2003 estimate, and as the population has grown since the homicide figures are 2002, it will make the homicide rate appear lower than it actually is)
Using only the homicide suspects that are known to be white, that gives a rate of 2.4 per 100,000.
However, that assumes ALL the unkown race suspects are black. If you assume 60% are (and that's a higher percentage than amongst known suspects) then you get over 7,000 homicide suspects white.
That works out to a homicide rate of around 3.2 per 100,000.
And that's achieved by taking out the lowest socio economic group from your sciety. In EVERY western society there is an urban underclass that commits a disproportionate amount of crime. 66% of firearms crimes in Britain are carried out in just 3 police force areas, the Met, W Midlands and Merseyside, which contain approx 20% of the England and Wales population.
beetle.. what type of climate or environment can't I find within a tank of gas of Dixon?
Tropical jungle? Artic tundra?