Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wlfgng on March 09, 2004, 10:03:23 AM
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should be suspended for life, without pay.
no room for hit-men in sports.
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amen!! i hope they fekin crucify him. I hope he has to miss the rest of the year and playoffs.. Moore did nothing to deserve that cheap shot. Moore is a rookie and doesnt play that kinda bs game. He plays straight up with nothing dirty. The whole Vancover team showed itself bastards last night.. Gawd I hope we meet them in the playoffs!!
But what record score after a record defeat! Go AVs!!!!
Edit: Sorry if you support the Vancover team but the fans at the game last night suckedass too! Cheering cause a player got hurt. .Twice they did this..
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watching the replays after someone linked the story to our hockey league's forums;;
ridiculous. just as bad if not worse then the mcsorley stick incident because this was obviously premediated.
stupid stupid stupid.
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I'd like to see Bertuzzi miss at least the rest of the regular season plus the playoffs.
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Originally posted by moose
watching the replays after someone linked the story to our hockey league's forums;;
ridiculous. just as bad if not worse then the mcsorley stick incident because this was obviously premediated.
stupid stupid stupid.
Could you cross link that?
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Av's Moore taken off on stretcher
3/9/2004
VANCOUVER (CP) - Derek Morris didn't mince words Monday night.
The Colorado defenceman called Todd Bertuzzi's vicious hit from behind on Avalanche rookie Steve Moore a disgusting, pre-meditated act.
``It was disgusting,'' an angry Morris said. ``There's no other word for that.
``I've never seen anything like that in my seven years of playing hockey (in the NHL).''
Late in the third period of Colorado's convincing 9-2 win, Bertuzzi came up behind Moore, grabbed the back of Avalanche player's sweater and delivered a round-house swing with his gloved right hand that struck Moore's head. Moore fell head first to the ice under the weight of Bertuzzi, who came down on top of him at the 8:41 mark.
A pool of blood formed around Moore's head as he lay motionless on the ice. A stretcher was wheeled out and after a delay of nearly 10 minutes the 25-year-old native of Windsor, Ont., was taken off for medical attention.
Moore was conscious and talking to medical staff when he was wheeled off the ice and then taken to hospital.
Morris compared the attack to one in which former Canuck Donald Brashear was clubbed by a stick-swinging Marty McSorley, who was suspended by the NHL and has not played in the league again.
The NHL has scheduled an in-person hearing between Bertuzzi and NHL executive vice president and director of hockey operations Colin Campbell on Wednesday at 9:00am et/6:00am pt in Toronto.
``The Brashear incident was obviously another thing that was bad but this was pre-meditated,'' Morris said. ``This is the worst thing I've seen.''
Bad blood between the two teams had been simmering since Moore's hit on Vancouver captain Markus Naslund during a game Feb. 16 in Denver. That resulted in Naslund suffering a concussion that cost him three games.
Moore wasn't penalized for the hit and the league took no action. That was of little solace at the time to Vancouver coach Marc Crawford, who called Moore's hit ``a cheap shot by a young kid on a captain, the leading scorer in the league.''
Bertuzzi received a 10-minute match penalty for his hit on the Avalanche centre Monday.
Colorado coach Tony Granato was seen screaming at Crawford and had to be restrained at his team's bench. Granato said after the game Crawford was responsible for the actions of his team during the fight-filled game that drew 156 minutes in penalties, 99 to Vancouver.
``Three or four times we stood our ground like we had to and that thing happened to put an exclamation point on probably what they were trying to accomplish,'' said Granato. ``Something was said on their side. You just don't go out and start fighting for the fun of it.
``I didn't like the body language,'' Granato said of the Canuck coaching staff. ``I didn't like the way the whole thing transpired. There's no need for that, let's face it.''
Morris accused Crawford of laughing about the incident.
``The worst thing about it is their coach is over there laughing about it and that just shows the class of that guy,'' he said.
Naslund said after the game no player wants to see an opponent injured and that Bertuzzi felt awful about the incident.
''Obviously I think we all feel bad about someone getting hurt,'' Naslund said. ``It's a bad feeling when someone gets seriously injured like that.
``Todd feels awful about it and is very sorry. I know it might not mean much right now. As weird as it seems I don't think that was Todd's intentions.''
Bertuzzi, who was suspended 10 games two years ago for coming off the bench to join an on-ice fight, was unavailable for comment after the game.
Canuck forward Brad May, who said earlier there was a bounty on Moore for his hit on Naslund, agreed the game got out of hand.
``This game took a life of its own; it shouldn't have,'' said May who scored both Vancouver goals. ``For two-and-a-half to three weeks there's been a lot of talk.
``Not in both lockerooms. That's all I'm going to say.''
Colorado captain Joe Sakic said the incident took away from a solid performance by the Avalanche, who lost 7-1 at home the night before to Calgary.
``It was an ugly incident and it really puts a damper on the whole game,'' said Sakic who had a goal and three assists. ``There's payback but that's not payback. That's going overboard.
``And I'm sure Todd feels bad right now about the result. No player wants to see somebody go down like that.
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That's what's wrong with hockey.
The NFL wouldn't tolerate that kind of crap without a fine being handed down.
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Originally posted by gofaster
That's what's wrong with hockey.
The NFL wouldn't tolerate that kind of crap without a fine being handed down.
This is not Hockey.. You cant generalize like that. Bertuzzi will be fined, suspended , and possibly have criminal charges brought against him. The NHL will not stand for this. He will be made an example of. Even with all that it wont be enough for the lowlife punk! Besides, what happened last night could not happen in football..
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well i didnt see the game nor do i even know what happend
But if im understanding this correctly one of Vancover Canucks put the big hurt on a Colo/ Av. guy
Well i seem to rememebr a few years ago what an Av. did to that Red Wing (who was it Darin McCarty) Colo. Av's dont exactly have the rep as a fair playing team so i would take that the reason the Canucks cheered was just that to see Colo Avs getting some of there own treatment.
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that's an idiotic statement gofaster.
There's no room for that in any sport and the NHL and it's fans won't tollerate it. It's criminal, not sporting.
a big hit is one thing.. it's all part of the game.. but this...
this is not part of the game at all.
It was pre-meditated bounty hunting with the intent on injuring a person. The guy was defenseless, didn't see him coming, didn't have the puck.. was away from the play... Bertuzzi dropped his stick with the intent of injuring this guy badly-cold cocked him-then drove his (unconcious) head into the ice. No room for it and Bertuzzi should be suspened for life without pay. Otherwise the league sends a message of acceptance.
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All I know is that they are replaying the Flyers/Sens game on Wednesday night in all its '23 fighting majors in the last 2 minutes and record setting PIM' glory.
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like I said, fighting and being physical all are part of the game.
This wasn't even close to being acceptable.
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I dont watch hocky because the whole game is stupid as it is played in the NHL. But I didnt see any corresponding out rage when Naslun was taken out by this rooky a few weeks ago.
Big supprise..when you punch people you can KO them. When they are on ice they can fall and hurt them selves even worse.
I really dont see how you can call something a sucker punch when the deliverer chased the recipiant arround the ice for 10 miniutes trying to get him to fight.
All the canucks fans(also all hockey players themselves) that I work with are pretty disgusted with bertruzi too. But really the distinction is beyond me.
That is what happens when you allow fighting in the game. Period. That is why fighing should not be allowed in the game period.
Thats why I only watch the NFL. They enforce the rules and keep it a sport. Both games are physically tough enough without fighting being encorage by the fans the leage and the sportcasters.
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have to disagree Pongo.
there's a difference, a big difference, between physicality/fighting and hitting someone that's defenselss. I'm sure the league is looking at this the same way.
Obviously it was NOT a good thing that Naslund got cheap-shotted but there is a huge difference. It wasn't the intent to injur. There should've been retribution but not in this way. It was over the top. An open-ice hit (like the one on Naslund) isn't the same thing as skating up from behind someone and knocking them out .
Also the talk from Bertuzzi and May was the 'bounty was on Moore'... well I guess they got their way.
Look at the video again. Tell me it's ok to knock someone out that isn't looking then drive his face/head into the ice.
If you dis-allow fighthing then things get even worse.
It's an agressive game that's physical... but it shouldn't cross over into intentionally injuring someone.
I am sure you'll see the same from the league.
--o'course if they wore face protection like in college hockey...
btw bro... have any more Hockey hall of fame tee's ? lol
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I havent even seen the video. But your statement that disallowing fighting would make it worse is nonsence.
Guys here post about wanting revenge when they play next.
Its just the WWF, nothing to do with the "sport" at all.
There is no difference. And if they change the rules of the game at the expence of Todd Bertruzi then that is just stupid.
Disallow fighting and cross checking and hooking and play the game. All these stupid "rules" that arnt really rules. This kind of dirty hit is fine that kind of dirty hit is not fine...lol
Just enforce the rules.
Your right though. the leage will see it your way. But its beyond me.
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Im gonna go out on a limb here (i feel its pretty strong) and believe you guys didnt watch the Av/Vancover game where Moore hit Naslund. The entire game was very physical. Many hits from both teams. Steve Moore's hit on Marcus Naslund was clean. Even Naslund, the Canuks captain, said the hit was clean. Naslund being the veteren should know to keep his head up when moving through center ice for the puck. Everyone knows this. What happened to Naslund, Pongo, was an accident from a clean hit. Bertuzzi harrassing Moore all the way up the ice then all the way down the ice followed by a blind sided back of the head hit to an unsuspecting Moore is just down right terrible. These two hits are a world apart. One was a hockey hit while the other was a lil'***** sucker punch. BIG DIFFERENCE...
Moore had already fought one of the Canucks last night. The game saw at least 5 fights all started by Vancover. They are all punks..
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I'll agree to disagree Pongo ;)
When are you coming fishing ?
hmm.. I agree Kappa except for the part about a clean hit.. he DID use his elbow. (I watched)
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I havent seen either game. The Hocky fanatics here aggree with you assessment though Kappa.
Too much of a hot head to watch WWF/NHL hockey.
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
I'll agree to disagree Pongo ;)
When are you coming fishing ?
hmm.. I agree Kappa except for the part about a clean hit.. he DID use his elbow. (I watched)
Went SteelHeading on the cowichan sunday wolfy. I would love to get down to your place for the opening of trout season.
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
I'll agree to disagree Pongo ;)
When are you coming fishing ?
hmm.. I agree Kappa except for the part about a clean hit.. he DID use his elbow. (I watched)
Wlfgng... have you found last nights happenings on the net anywhere? Give a link???
Moores hit to me was no different that any other hit he gives. He didnt make a run at Naslund. It was just strange how it happened. Moore released the puck saw someone coming at him and leaned into a hit. Naslund just happen to have his head and shoulders very low when he took the hit. It was nothing intential from Moore. If a bad hit wasnt intentional I consider it not to be a dirty hit for any team.. Players still get hurt playing clean hockey... As with any sport..
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Went SteelHeading on the cowichan sunday wolfy. I would love to get down to your place for the opening of trout season.
sweet!!!
plan to come around mother's day if you can Pongo.
That's when the Green Drakes hatch.. can you say size 5 flies that float so high you can see them in moonlight?
mmm.. can't wait
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Wlfgng... have you found last nights happenings on the net anywhere? Give a link???
don't know man, sorry. I'm sure the league is embarassed and not really into spreading this around more than needed.
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Sounds to me like someone needs to be arrested for assualt.
I mean you cant get away with that crap on the street so why should you on the ice?
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Just say the replay Man that dude needs jail time.
He broke a vertebre in the guys kneck fer crying out loud.
Thats going way over board in my book.
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http://www.hockeyfights.com/cf277/0...shots_moore.wmv
Video of incident.
Granted the first shot was pretty cheap, but I think the more serious injuries are simply the result of being knocked out and falling on his face...
Uncalled for cheap shot, but Bertuzzi can hardly be blamed for the way the guy fell.
No fan of either team or player - just how I see it.
Far worse has happend with far less injuriy and punishment. I would be disapointed if the NHL allowed the severity of the injuries dictate the severity of the punishment instead of the action itself.
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far worse?
Moore is out for at least the rest of the season.
concussion, neck fracture, deep abrasions forhead, cheek, lip, etc..
No one deserves that or need dish that out to anyone else.. especially in a 'game'
Far worse has happend with far less injuriy and punishment. I would be disapointed if the NHL allowed the severity of the injuries dictate the severity of the punishment instead of the action itself.
I will never understand this viewpoint. The guy was cold-cocked from behind then face-slammed into the ice once unconcious.
I agree that the severity of the injury need not dicated the punishment.. the action and motivation for such action should.
Bertuzzi only had one thing in mind... he was pissed off and wanted to injure Moore.
btw he didn't 'fall' onto the ice. he was pile-driven by the back of the neck by a 245 pound 6'3 guy into the ice face-first
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Wheres the injury report??
Uncalled for cheap shot, but Bertuzzi can hardly be blamed for the way the guy fell.
omg what an outrage... dude it seems you have no idea of right and wrong. Bertuzzi is to blame 100% for what happened. He caused him to fall to the ice from the hit. He rammed him head long into the ice. Bertuzzi is to blame hands down.. Hes a POS and his punishment should be worse than his actions...
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
far worse?
Moore is out for at least the rest of the season.
concussion, neck fracture, deep abrasions forhead, cheek, lip, etc..
Plenty of players have been injured and out for the remainder of the season. Both through intentional and unintentional means.
I agree that the severity of the injury need not dicated the punishment.. the action and motivation for such action should.
Bertuzzi only had one thing in mind... he was pissed off and wanted to injure Moore.
[/b]
Then we're in agreement here.
btw he didn't 'fall' onto the ice. he was pile-driven by the back of the neck by a 245 pound 6'3 guy into the ice face-first [/B]
He was probably knocked unconscience when he was hit. It looked to me like Bertuzzi didnt expect him to black out and simply fell on top of him. I dont think he had any intention of 'piledriving' him into the ice - I think he just fell on top of him.
Not condoning the action, but I think that a deviation from the norms of acceptable on ice behavior is being made out to be the worse tragedy since the original six began dropping gloves.
I dont agree with that - I think it was a stupid decision on his part fueled by frustration and the clock (apparently Moore wouldnt fight Bertuzzi face to face even though he was egged on multiple times?) I dont think Bertuzzi had it in his mind to fracture his neck - just to beat on him - unfortunately first punch lead to a rather unfortunate turn of events that landed Moore in the hospital.
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bottom line.
Bertuzzi lost control and cold cocked the guy.
Moore doesn't HAVE to fight.. hell he's a rookie much smaller.. he'd be stupid to fight Bertuzzi. That doesn't mean he deserved the cheap shot. (fwiw I don't think ANYONE deserves a cheap shot. if I were to hit someone they'd at least see it coming)
Do I think Bertuzzi meant to fracture his neck? No.
Do I think he meant to injure him just as he threatened? Yes.
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part of the problem IMO, is that Crawford is a hot-head and seems to nurture that environment on a team.. kinda like when he coached the Av's vs. the Redwings... games were eerily similar.
oops.. meant to make this an edit
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I don't see how you can compare the hit on Naslund to what Bertuzzi did. Checking a guy is completely different from sucker punching a guy who has his back turned, then ramming his head into the ice.
And whoever brought up the incident with Detroit is a doofus. That was a clean hit. There was no penalty called. That Draper got hurt was just bad luck. No comparison to what Bertuzzi did.
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an update on Moore's condition:
he regained conciousness before being carried out of the arena last night..
injuries previously noted.
he will remain in Vancouver hospital indefinately.
they hope to move him to Denver eventually and re-evaluate him then.
maybe us fans can give him our support and disregard, at least for the time being, the situation surrounding what happened.
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Yeah they will be moving to Craig Hospital In Denver.
Thats a great place.
Now again why should someone get away with punching somone
on this ice when you cant do It on the street?
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it was an intentional hit from behind......
suspended for life.....
period.
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Holy.....
Didnt see this or even hear about it till they were talking about it on the radio on my drive home.
Just watched the clip.
All i have to say:
By far one of the darkest moments in NHL hockey ever.
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Vancouver police say they are investigating the incedent.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Vancouver police say they are investigating the incedent.
As well they should man this assualt plain and simple.
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Who is this Bertuzzi guy?
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Originally posted by LAWCobra
As well they should man this assualt plain and simple.
so when one boxer hurts another is it assault? plain and simple? Is everyone that ever punched Bertuzi on the ice going to be charged now?
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c'mon bro, you know it isn't like that.
There has to be a limit to everything. I mean where does one draw the line?
Should hockey players not touch each other on the ice, just in case someone gets hurt? that's one extreme..
or do they get to do whatever they feel is justified? that's the other extreme.
In my mind it is somewhere in between and it's only a matter of degree, or where you draw the line, that makes the difference.
Bertuzzi crossed the line in "how and why" he did it.
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Although I think all this talk about "revenge" in hockey is childish, Moore should have known he had it coming. Moore should have dropped his gloves and go toe to toe with Bertuzzi. Wether the hit on Naslund was clean or not can be debated, but he still took out the team captain and one of the best scorers in the league for a few weeks and gave him a concussion.
But he didn't, and Bertuzzi ****ed up large. I would boot Bertuzzi for life.
As far as the Sens/Flyers fiasco is concerned, I think it's fantasic what Canada and the US can do when they work together. An NHL record, WTG!! I was thinking of you in Pilly Saurdaukar when I heard about it. ;)
I think this indictative of the type of season it is though and not the norm. Alot of pressure for alot of teams. The top of the standings for alot of devisions are jam packed, many teams within a few points of each other. Plus with the possible strike next year and perhaps the end of the NHL as we know it, maybe the last shot at the cup for the teams, owners and players for a long time.
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Originally posted by Pongo
so when one boxer hurts another is it assault? plain and simple? Is everyone that ever punched Bertuzi on the ice going to be charged now?
Pongo,
u are so clueless....
I played semi-pro hockey for 2 yrs in 88 89. Was drafted out of high school. I will say this much. What Bertuzzi did was inexcusable, he allowed his emotions to overrule his commonsense and he committed an act that all pro hockey players frown upon. Worse still this is his second offense.
Bare minimum is a year suspension, with a year probation after that. Maybe that might just send a message to those that might try something like this in the future. Ohh, and before you get all whiney about Bertuzzi's career, think about Moore sitting in his bed tonight in the hospital, and how he has to feel. He'll (Moore) never feel the same on the ice again, and could be a career altering ordeal for him. One that NO ONE should have to go through.
Lastly, untill the instigator rule is relooked, this BS is gonna continue. But before you get too huffy about how the Canucks would have leveled Moore earlier, remeber too, Moore hit Naslund fair and square.... naslund cut across the middle with his head down, and WHAM... welcome back to reality this is the NHL, head up!
Either way, we'll all find out tomorrow whether Bertuzzi will pay for the leagues laziness in discipline, or if this BS will continue till someone dies.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
But he didn't, and Bertuzzi ****ed up large. I would boot Bertuzzi for life.
Bullchit Thrawn...
Give him a year, no pay, then a year or two of probation. Plus a fine of epic proportions. That alone will change his behavor, the chance at loosing his livelyhood during probation will change him. That wasn't there from his last offense.
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If anyone wants to see the video for themselves, check it out here....
http://www.galaxygates.net/naslund/
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Bare minimum is a year suspension, with a year probation after that.[/B]
Bullchit Thrawn...
Give him a year, no pay, then a year or two of probation. Plus a fine of epic proportions.
So I guess your bare minimum is your bare maximum as well. :rolleyes:
And no it's isn't bull****, believe it or not, I really would kick him out the NHL for life.
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he was head hunting.....he wanted to smack the living **** outta that young punk...and he did.
and even when they fell on the ice...Bert still smacked him some more
INTENTIONALLY INJURING ANOTHER......
I say ban for life.....
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I have to agree with the ban for life vote. Its Bertuzzi's second suspention from the NHL. At the very bare minimum he should not be allowed to play until Moore can play again. Perhaps even a few weeks after Moore can play again. If Moore retires, cya Bertuzzi. If Moore cant play, cya Bertuzzi! Moore is out for the season of his rookie year.. His entire career will be altered now.. Dudes meeting w/ the NHL is this morning. I hope to see him on a cross by this afternoon.. ha!!
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Call the police? Banned for life? WTF?
Guys - watch the clip. Its a ****ty cheap shot that snowballed into a serious injury due to unconscienceness.
Its not like there was a gunfight on the ice.
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
If you dis-allow fighthing then things get even worse.
It's an agressive game that's physical... but it shouldn't cross over into intentionally injuring someone.
If hockey could clean up its act, there'd be no need for "enforcement" and "retribution" by players. The refs need to keep the game under control. And that's what's wrong with pro hockey. Too often it becomes less a game of skill and strategy and more a game of "get our goon in there to control their goon."
Rodney Dangerfield joke: I went to the fights the other night and a hockey game broke out.
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Book'm Danno....!
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Lol Saur. Us Philadelphians know this.
Had this crap been pulled in philadelphia, the Flyers teams would have literally ripped him apart on the ice.
If for some reason, he escaped the ice, the fans would have killed him. Literally.
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Originally posted by gofaster
If hockey could clean up its act, there'd be no need for "enforcement" and "retribution" by players. The refs need to keep the game under control. And that's what's wrong with pro hockey. Too often it becomes less a game of skill and strategy and more a game of "get our goon in there to control their goon."
B]
Thats the way hockey always has been and should be and also part of its alure.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Lol Saur. Us Philadelphians know this.
Had this crap been pulled in philadelphia, the Flyers teams would have literally ripped him apart on the ice.
If for some reason, he escaped the ice, the fans would have killed him. Literally.
Hehe - we still lay claim to the only fan that has ever jumped over the glass to start a fight with Tie Domi... the ****er.
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Only to fall flat on his face and then have his shirt pulled over his head.
As Domi said when i asked him aboot that, "the second squirt felt better than the first".:rofl
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
http://www.hockeyfights.com/cf277/0...shots_moore.wmv
Video of incident.
That's a pretty interesting web link. Thanks for posting!
How come the refs don't break up a fight until after one of the players goes down? I noticed that the refs just sort of stand around the fighters in a circle and let them beat the crap out of each other. That's hockey?
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Hehe - we still lay claim to the only fan that has ever jumped over the glass to start a fight with Tie Domi... the ****er.
Yeah, I remember watching that clip again and again. I thought that was the funniest thing I've ever seen at a hockey game. Domi had it coming. He antagonized the fans intentionally. Lightning fans don't do that, mostly out of ignorance. We're still learning what the blue lines are for.
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Originally posted by gofaster
That's a pretty interesting web link. Thanks for posting!
How come the refs don't break up a fight until after one of the players goes down? I noticed that the refs just sort of stand around the fighters in a circle and let them beat the crap out of each other. That's hockey?
Fighting is allowed in both the pro leagues and most college leagues. When I played in college I got my bellybutton beat on more than one occassion.
Self policing - someone does something stupid, makes a dirty hit, or starts running his mouth and he gets it.
The refs only seperate the players after one has fallen.
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Originally posted by Torque
Only to fall flat on his face and then have his shirt pulled over his head.
As Domi said when i asked him aboot that, "the second squirt felt better than the first".:rofl
Fortunately Domi was without his trusty water bottle when Brash clocked him.
Honestly - what kind of a ***** squirts a water bottle? Domi is kinda like that kid that that got beat up constantly in high school but never learned to keep his mouth shut.
See you ****ers in the playoffs. Bring your water bottles. ;)
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Just saw the clip....
Looks to me that Bertuzzi drove Moore's head straight into the ice after he knocked him out. And even if he didn't drive him into the ground on purpose (which I think he did), that shot was totally blatent and inexcusable and he should be held responsible for the results of his sucker punch.
There was nothing about hockey in what he did and he shouldn't be allowed on the ice again. This is a professional league and there should be a level of expectation for the players in the league that has ZERO room for what Bertuzzi did.
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Agreed 100% mosgood.
Where'd you see the clip? None of the links in this thread have worked for me.. Can you give a link?? Been tryin to show my office..
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http://www.galaxygates.net/naslund/
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thats the same link... I got a 404 error when I click it..
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Originally posted by kappa
thats the same link... I got a 404 error when I click it..
i did too the first time i tried... but it works now
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http://www.hockeyfights.com/cf281/040308_bertuzzi_cheapshots_moore.wmv
this link gives me a 404 from your posted link... am I doing something wrong? lol
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No, it's a bad link. Some browsers and boards put that .... in there when the URL is too long.
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http://www.hockeyfights.com/videos/
try this.... read a few paragraphs down to find it
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thanks mosgood.. it was hidden from me..
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Saw what Bertuzzi did to Moore... that was just horrible...
Drove him into the ice after sucker punching him from behind and then he kept hitting him after he was down untill they took him off of Moore...
Wouldnt say ban for life unless Moore can't play anymore, then kick Bertuzzi + fine. Need to make an example of what can/will happen when guys do that.
P.S. I put everything off to watch Stars play the Avs, my 2 favorite teams.
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Buncha basketball fans.
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McSorley got at 23 game suspension from the NHL, for his it on Brashear.
Then he went to court. He got a 18 month conditional sentence. The condition? He could never again play in a team sport where Brashear would possibly play for the opposing team, thus ending his NHL career.
We will see what happens later today.
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I think in an instance like this, the offending player should keep playing, but be fined 95% of his salary for every game the other player is out. With the money going to the injured player. If the injured guy is a high salary guy and the offender not, I think the offenders club should make up the difference. If the injured player will not return to play again, I think the offender shouldn't either. Fair is fair. I think that should apply to stupidity as well as intent.
Saw someone tonight in red jersey, cant remember what game it was, maybe Hurricanes or Coyotes, anyway...the guy tried to hook another player. He flipped his stick around and just swung it at the other guy...up high. He ended up hitting the other player in the helmet just behind the eye. He could've seriously injured that fella being stupid like that.
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Heres Bertuzzi trying to "save face" by crying in public :P
(http://www.expressen.se//content/1/c6/11/49/11/8c1d0bab.jpg)
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isn't it like the crashes in NASCAR?
"WOW look at that wreck!! Cool!! - you mean he died???!?"
if you allow ANY fighting, how/where can you draw the line?
same mentality that watches WWF "WOW, cool did you see him smash that chair over his head?"
sorry, I feel for the kid that got hit but "isn't that part of hockey today?"
violence != skill ............ in any sport
the ahole needs to be arrested for assault and all fights need to be stop immediately with strict fines/suspensions for those who start them..can't have it both way
maybe boxing would be better if we went back to spiked gloves or take the face guards off the football helmets or ...
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NHL handed down a suspension as follows:
1. Balance of this regular season = 12 games
2. Entire playoffs = Minimum 4 games, maximum 28 games.
3. Suspension to be revisited prior to the 2004-2005 season.
4. Canucks are fined $250,000.
5. Suspension will cost Bertuzzi almost US $700,000 in salary.
IMHO, and based on other NHL suspension, not nearly enough.
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if you allow ANY fighting, how/where can you draw the line?
that's like saying "hey, we let them fight so why not just let them kill each other"... ludicrous. it IS all about degree.
also, I am sure Bertuzzi is genuinely sorry. too bad he lost control and now it's too late.
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
that's like saying "hey, we let them fight so why not just let them kill each other"... ludicrous. it IS all about degree.
also, I am sure Bertuzzi is genuinely sorry. too bad he lost control and now it's too late.
who determines the "degree"? was it the sucker punch, the fact he drove the kids head into the ice or the punches that followed while the kid laid on the ice knockout out? where/when did it go to far eh?
I can see fights break out in such a heated sport but..
what is "ludricrous" is having the refs skate around and watch them fight
when it starts, it should be stopped - immeditely and the punishment should follow - but it wont happen "fights are part of hockey" right? rough and tough guys..
heck, get james caan & just turn it into rollerball and be done with it
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Originally posted by Eagler
who determines the "degree"? was it the sucker punch, the fact he drove the kids head into the ice or the punches that followed while the kid laid on the ice knockout out? where/when did it go to far eh?
I can see fights break out in such a heated sport but..
what is "ludricrous" is having the refs skate around and watch them fight
when it starts, it should be stopped - immeditely and the punishment should follow - but it wont happen "fights are part of hockey" right? rough and tough guys..
heck, get james caan & just turn it into rollerball and be done with it
Part of the reason that the refs and linesmen don't break it up immediately is for their own safety. The linesmen are typically not as big or strong as the goons going at it, nor are they as well protected in terms of equipment and padding.
If two known goons are going at it, the linesmen will not jump in until one of them falls to the ice. It's much easier to break them up when one guy goes down, and by then the goons are pretty tired anyway.
They also have to watch the rest of the players on the ice as well as the benches just to make sure that a brawl isn't about to break out.
Not an excuse for any of this, but just a couple of reasons why the linesmen don't jump in right away.
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who determines the "degree"? was it the sucker punch, the fact he drove the kids head into the ice or the punches that followed while the kid laid on the ice knockout out? where/when did it go to far eh?
cripes c'mon. it doen's take a rocket-scientist to figure out that a sucker punch, blind sided, cold-cocked.. whatever you want to call it, was over the line.
Even the 'goons' in the NHL, the brawlers, are apalled at Bertuzzi's actions.
The world is not black and white. We humans should be able to figure out the differences between a fight and and a blind-sided assault.
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Why do Aneagler Bryant and others keep talking about fighting? This had nothing to do with fighting.
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BTW... Funksnort prediction alert.... I correctly predicted the length of suspension.
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Ask yourself this: would you let Bertuzzi coach a youth hockey team?
He's a two-time All-Star NHL player, 5th in points scored last year. No doubt he can play hockey.
He also cheap-shotted an opponent, drove the guy's head to the ice, left the player lying unconscious in a pool blood when he was pulled off the guy's body. That player is in the hospital with a broken neck with many months of physical therapy ahead of him.
Bertuzzi got pulled for the rest of the year, will lose $700k in salary, might be back next year. But hey, he said he was sorry. (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040311/ap_on_sp_ho_ne/hkn_bertuzzi_s_punch_27)
What message is this sending?
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The NHL did very much the same thing in the Mcsorely inccident... Gave an initial suspention and then later gave the actual suspention. I find it very unlikely that Bertuzzi will play in the NHL again. The string of events leading upto and the event itself are very sad and cast a negative spotlite on the NHL.
After Bertuzzi's appology I find it impossible to hate the man or hold ill content towards him, but I agree 100% with the NHL's ruling. A sad day for the NHL indeed, but life will continue for all involved..
GO Avs!!!
Predict Avs Stanley Cup Champs 2004!!!!
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The same message that base-a-ball sends with virtually no steroid testing. The message sent when college coaches who cheat in many many varied forms who are caught and then still go on to coach else where. Basketball coaches who berate, demean and abuse players for YEARS and still coach. The message sent when universities make millions of dollars a year off of players yet are unable to make a buck of there own.
Its Ameerikaa!!!(and Canada in this instance)
How bout Mike Tyson? How many chances does that disturbed thug get? What about MacEnroe during his heyday? Prim and Proper tennis didn't ban him when he was doing his tricks.
When they actually do ban someone, its usually somewhat in error. Who actually believes that Pete Rose deserved all he got? Marty McSorely is another example. Yeah, he was an enforcer who really screwed up and lost his cool, but I don't really think he was intent on hurting Brashear. He was/is a class guy who not only gave lots and lots of money to charity, but started his own and put allot of his time into it.
But, as Wolfgang put it..."I digress"
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I agree on all points :)
hey Liz, why not hook up with Pongo this year and drop by for some fly-fishin' action ? '
Hell, maybe even a min-con with some Colo-flyboys or nearby Assassins...
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An emotional Bertuzzi apologized to Moore.
"These comments are for Steve. I had no intention of hurting you," Bertuzzi said Wednesday night, reading a statement before the Canucks played the Wild.
"I feel awful for what transpired," he said.
LOL no intention of hurting him yeah like that punch to the head was to feel good?
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
I agree on all points :)
hey Liz, why not hook up with Pongo this year and drop by for some fly-fishin' action ? '
Hell, maybe even a min-con with some Colo-flyboys or nearby Assassins...
Thats not a far fetched idea wolfie. Uncle Sambo was pretty nice to me this year and gave me back some of MY money. I'll get back with ya's...btw, whens trout hunting season open?
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Originally posted by LAWCobra
An emotional Bertuzzi apologized to Moore.
"These comments are for Steve. I had no intention of hurting you," Bertuzzi said Wednesday night, reading a statement before the Canucks played the Wild.
"I feel awful for what transpired," he said.
LOL no intention of hurting him yeah like that punch to the head was to feel good?
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
"I had no intention of hurting you... as I punched my fist into your face and drove you head-first into the ice"
"I feel awful for what transpired... because now I can't play hockey anymore and I'm going to lose my salary money."
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in Bertuzzi's favor... yeah I know, I started this thread...
I don't think he meant to injure him to the extent that it broke his neck or ruined his career... I do think he meant to put a 'hurtin' on him and got carried away.
his team was down 5-0 (which is HUGE in hockey),
he was frustrated, and wanted payback...
the problem is in the fact that he lost emotional control (as did his coaches of him) and let his anger block his rationality.
it IS a matter of degree in all things.
you can't remove violence from sport. Everyone is trying to out-do the opponent, run a little faster, hold on the ball a little harder, tackle the guy with the ball... but there has to be a limit on what is acceptable and what isn't.
otherwise it's all or nothing (NO contact or aggression vs. "do whatever you want")
this is just an example of what all sports need to learn IMHO
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Liz, actually 'trout hunting' season has already begun .. it's been in the 70's some days but the real deal is around Mother's Day.
The event is Green Drake Hatch and fly fisherman from all over the world try to get here for it. it's absolutely the most fun time for us.
hell, we fish into the night by moonlight and have these huge ol' brown-trout (that hide during the day) inhale dry flies.. you can friggin hear them gulp them down, that's when you know when to set the hook.. it's a good time.
drop me line and I'll refresh my phone numbers with ya'
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Would I bring my 5 weight my 7 wieght or my 9 wieght spey rod?
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5 weight is the weapon of choice around here.
I have a 4 weight Sage that's the perfect thing for me...
6 or 7 weight for lakes but we'll probably stay in the river(s).
they are picky bastiges here when it comes to being spooked.
I usually fish 6x or 7x tippet... 'cept for Green Drake season..
you can get away with a 3x or 4x but you don't need to cast far.. in fact, it's better if you don't so as not to spook the other 50 fish lying in wait just upstream...
local flies are the way to go during that time, as in most others.
right now it's all nymphs.. like tiny ones.(dry w/dropper)
then the salmon-egg patterns, mixed with dries during the eve's,
then break out the big-boys for the drake hatch in may.
bottom line:
come up before mid summer and you'll do just fine. after that the water is pretty thin and requires pretty accurate/gentle casts otherwise you'll be watching fish swim away from your fly all day
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Hey If this dude like to fight so much why dont he go to Iraq.
I would love to see him kick the crap out of a few al Quaeda
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Originally posted by Eagler
isn't it like the crashes in NASCAR?
"WOW look at that wreck!! Cool!! - you mean he died???!?"
Big difference there Eagler. NASCAR goes to great legnths to prevent accidents. If a driver gets too aggressive, they will pull him off the track (i.e. Kevin Harvick) until he copitulates to the rules.
The rest of your post I totally agree with.
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Originally posted by Eagler
the ahole needs to be arrested for assault and all fights need to be stop immediately with strict fines/suspensions for those who start them..can't have it both way
Oh I agree 100% can you imagine If he did that to someone on the street he would be ion jail right now!
I do not see the difference just because they were both playing a hockey game.
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you can tell the real hockey fans/players from the guys who watch sportscenter
while there's no way i condone what bertuzzi did, you can't take this one instance and say 'oh fighting shouldnt be allowed at all.' have any of you ever played actual organized full contact hockey?
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Originally posted by moose
you can tell the real hockey fans/players from the guys who watch sportscenter
while there's no way i condone what bertuzzi did, you can't take this one instance and say 'oh fighting shouldnt be allowed at all.' have any of you ever played actual organized full contact hockey?
I played hockey on a state championship team.
I know what a good check is and there is contact.
But skating up behind someone and punching him in the head(blindshot) IS WAY WRONG and I think criminal.
Again do it to someone on the street and see what happends.
Sure these dude know the risk of the game heck there Pros.
But being blindsided by someone much bigger than u aint onwe of the risk I think they had in mind.
He should be convicted of assualt and have to under go anger managment classes.
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Originally posted by LAWCobra
Oh I agree 100% can you imagine If he did that to someone on the street he would be ion jail right now!
I do not see the difference just because they were both playing a hockey game.
It is an inherent risk while playing any sport, just like getting sacked in football, crashing into a wall in NASCAR (not a sport but thats a whole nother thread), getting clipped in soccer, beamed in baseball.....etc etc etc etc. All are examples of "payback" in any other sport. How many times did Steve Young get sacked????? How many have you heard a football player talk about sacking someone before the game? How many times have you heard a driver say....."rubbin is racing" etc etc Your a hockey player deal with it....yeah it was excessive but it doesnt call for jail time.
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oh, im not disagreeing with you; if i were bertuzzi i'd be scared to play for a year just because i'd be watching my back so much.
i just think eagler's (and a lotta bored sportswriters) opinion is alittle bit of overkill.
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Originally posted by LAWCobra
I played hockey on a state championship team.
I know what a good check is and there is contact.
But skating up behind someone and punching him in the head(blindshot) IS WAY WRONG and I think criminal.
Again do it to someone on the street and see what happends.
Sure these dude know the risk of the game heck there Pros.
But being blindsided by someone much bigger than u aint onwe of the risk I think they had in mind.
He should be convicted of assualt and have to under go anger managment classes.
Sniper,EMT,Divemaster,Internet cassanova,Championship hockey player is there anything your multiple personalities hasnt done?
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No I have not been a complete *** yet.
But I think I will leave that honor all to you.:aok
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Anybody who has read any of your posts would disagree with you there.
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Originally posted by moose
oh, im not disagreeing with you; if i were bertuzzi i'd be scared to play for a year just because i'd be watching my back so much.
wrong...Bert at 6.3 235 pounds....you will not scare him that easily....even the goons don't mess with a power forward like Bert....
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You people are like women. The punch was deliberate. The severe injuries as a result of the 'fall' (not a "pile-drive" :rolleyes: ) were an accident.
If youre interested in watching the tape unbiasedly instead of finding a witch to burn youll see this.
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Fighting is allowed in both the pro leagues and most college leagues. When I played in college I got my bellybutton beat on more than one occassion.
Sorry, gotta call B.S here. Fighting is not allowed in the NCAA. Don't know which college you are pretending to have played hockey at, but you need to get your fantasy straight before you post it.
I played hockey on a state championship team.
Really Lawcobra? when? where?
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pssst saur....
look carefully....and you will see Bert punching him when there down.....
trust me....he let himself fall on top of the kid, or else he would of let go of his shirt.
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Originally posted by Steve
Sorry, gotta call B.S here. Fighting is not allowed in the NCAA. Don't know which college you are pretending to have played hockey at, but you need to get your fantasy straight before you post it.
Dont be a dick. I wasnt anywhere near good enough to play NCAA Div I. We're talking a step above club hockey - you know - where the players are more interested in hurting eachother than scoring?
Want me to take a picture of the sweater for you? :rolleyes:
EDIT: Im taking your soul as a penalty for not only calling BS, but making your judgement in the same post.
Thanks.
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I didn't say anything about Div I.
Your story is Bull. Even the smallest colleges, short of some Jr. Colleges almost always join the NCAA. You may have a sweater... but you didn't play intercollegiate hockey. Intramurals?
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Originally posted by Steve
I didn't say anything about Div I.
Your story is Bull. Even the smallest colleges, short of some Jr. Colleges almost always join the NCAA. You may have a sweater... but you didn't play intercollegiate hockey. Intramurals?
ROFL!
Tell you what ultra melon, you tell me what I need to do to convince you and Ill do it.
Unfortunately I didnt bring a camcorder to the games so I suppose my word will have to do. Too bad for you.
Played at a state school in PA - we played other state and private schools and yes, the kids were more than willing to start swinging and the officials would wait until one fell.
Just out of curiosity - why would I go through the trouble of making up a story about playing hockey in college and bashing some guys fist with my face on an internet message board? To get the girls? Nah - Im obviously trying to impress you Steve. I know that deep down inside, a man isnt a man until he has had his bell rung... and Steve... I want you to think of me as a man.
Go start a fight with someone else today.
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Just out of curiosity - why would I go through the trouble of making up a story about playing hockey
Dunno.. maybe for the same reason you went through the trouble of making up:
Fighting is allowed in......most college leagues.
Hey Saur, what school did you skate for?
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Hey Lawcobra, State championship.. very cool... for what school? Year?
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Originally posted by Steve
Hey Lawcobra, State championship.. very cool... for what school? Year?
Probably the same one that he was a sniper/divemaster/emt
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Originally posted by Steve
Dunno.. maybe for the same reason you went through the trouble of making up:
Hey Saur, what school did you skate for?
I skated for ESU - small university (~10,000) kids in the Poconos. Played from 98-01. Left wing. Played local schools, as mentioned above.
Among them: Penn State, Lehigh, Mulenburgh, Clarion, bunch of others anyone outside of the state wouldnt know.
And I dont "make stuff up." Im not that old yet - I can distictedly remember my vision being fuzy on more than one occassion my freshman year - helmet ripped off and all.
If your argument is that fights are 'broken up' - well they are 'broken up' in the NHL too - fine line if you ask me.
What school did you skate for Steve? You never got in a scrap?
EDIT: One of my old squaddies was my roomate in college - also played hockey - although he played the final year we were both there (I didnt play more than a couple games that year - we had switched to a new league because the school wasnt giving us enough money anymore. It was a bull**** league so I basically just stopped going.)
He doesnt fly anymore, but he browses the boards from time to time - maybe hell chime in. His ingame name was tically2 - dunno about the board name.
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Saur, maybe your college league was the rare exception but AFAIK you'd get a game misconduct(DQ) +1 for fighting... first offense. After that it was game +2... game +3 etc.
so my argument is not that they were broken up, but that they simply weren't allowed. With a game+1.... and worse... it's pretty costly.
You may be talking about club hockey and I honestly do not know much about that.
I played Jr. A
Yes, I got into a fight or 3. Had a Canadian dude knock me out in a tourney at Sault Saint Marie....never got my gloves off.
Played in the olympic league at Augsburg College in the summer a couple of times... great hockey.
Edit: We played college teams under NCAA rules, although it was non-sanctioned(In otherwords, it didn't count for the college in the NCAA standings.. for obvious reasons)
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You'll notice that after being suspended (McSorley) he never played in the NHL again.
No one will want Bertuzzi. Unfortunate for him. But...he's realized to late what he has done.
His NHL career is more then likely over.
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McSorley was a washed up 40 year old goon. He was a decent two way player when he was younger, but by the time "the incident" happened he was a marginal player except for his pugilistic abilities.
Bertuzzi is a dominant power forward in his prime. He scored 46 goals last season. He's still got 7-10 good years left in him and his skills go way beyond the rough stuff.
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Cherry Creek Bruins High School
72-76
Englewood Colorado
I played Goaly
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sweet... south suburban ice arena maybe? :)
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There used to be a place called celebrity sports center i think on Broadway and another place over in cherry hills village but man that was almost
30 years agoLOL.
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ah yeah. I remember. Celebrity sports center.. woah.
Way back :)
I stop near that neighborhood every couple of months when I visit my buddies in Denver. I used to play at south-suburban, in Littleton .. I think it's Littleton... been a while on my end too.