Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: aceman on March 09, 2004, 05:38:11 PM
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i don't care if it perke to hell i want in aceshigh1 or 2:) :)
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Aren't you from WW2aircraft forum? Your name was same name at WWaircraft forum and you was ask if there was F4F-4C cannon? lol
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nope never heard of it
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arent u Shark88 ? that dweeb who was always asking for b29's?
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nope:aok
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Originally posted by aceman
nope never heard of it
Aircraft of World War II - Warbird Forum? Are you sure that you never been there? You typing sound familiar alright. :eek:
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i fly in head to head alot
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Who is this 'we' you talk about?
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Originally posted by aceman
i don't care if it perke to hell i want in aceshigh1 or 2:) :)
No we don't. I can name 20-40 planes without a reference text that would impact the game more beneficially and lend themselves to greater historical accuracy of the game compared to the actual war and also be of vastly greater benefit to scenarios and the Combat Theatre and a rolling planeset in Tour of Duty.
And before we wanted or needed a B-29 we could do with greater diversity of strategic targets, improved relationship of strat to gameplay, more and better shipping, more ground vehicles, artillery, etc., etc.
The B-29 is one of the last planes in WWII I would model.
Sakai
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Originally posted by Sakai
No we don't. I can name 20-40 planes without a reference text that would impact the game more beneficially and lend themselves to greater historical accuracy of the game compared to the actual war and also be of vastly greater benefit to scenarios and the Combat Theatre and a rolling planeset in Tour of Duty.
And before we wanted or needed a B-29 we could do with greater diversity of strategic targets, improved relationship of strat to gameplay, more and better shipping, more ground vehicles, artillery, etc., etc.
The B-29 is one of the last planes in WWII I would model.
Sakai
I dont think B-29 isn't last model in WWII and I always thought that Consolidated B-32 "Dominator" bomber was last newest bomber for USA during before WWII ended, but again I might be wrong, Sakai. :)
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Originally posted by Rafe35
I dont think B-29 isn't last model in WWII and I always thought that Consolidated B-32 "Dominator" bomber was last newest bomber for USA during before WWII ended, but again I might be wrong, Sakai. :)
Right buddy, just a communication error. I think you are talking about the B-32.
What I said was that: "the B-29 is one of the last planes I would model."
I think planes like teh B-32, Salamander, F7F and F8F have no place in this game. Maybe the B-29, but not now.
Just my opinion.
Sakai
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Originally posted by Sakai
Right buddy, just a communication error. I think you are talking about the B-32.
What I said was that: "the B-29 is one of the last planes I would model."
I think planes like teh B-32, Salamander, F7F and F8F have no place in this game. Maybe the B-29, but not now.
Just my opinion.
Sakai
I agree what you said about Post-war aircraft shouldn't be in for Aces High like:
Goodyear F2G-1 and -2 Super Corsair
Grumman F7F-1 Tigercat
Grumman F8F-1 Bearcat
North American F-86 Sabre
Vought F4U-4B, -C, and -N Corsair
Sea Fury
and many more late post war aircraft
Consolidated produced 115 B-32 Dominators during WWII and B-32 won the final aerial combat against Japan. Few crews on board of B-32, were killed and wounded, but they killed some few Zero and Tony probably.
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Originally posted by Rafe35
I agree what you said about Post-war aircraft shouldn't be in for Aces High like:
Goodyear F2G-1 and -2 Super Corsair
Grumman F7F-1 Tigercat
Grumman F8F-1 Bearcat
North American F-86 Sabre
Vought F4U-4B, -C, and -N Corsair
Sea Fury
and many more late post war aircraft
Consolidated produced 115 B-32 Dominators during WWII and B-32 won the final aerial combat against Japan. Few crews on board of B-32, were killed and wounded, but they killed some few Zero and Tony probably.
Yeah, B-32 was shot down by Sakai's group as last aerial kill by Japan as I recall. It was not widely used and was immediately cancelled as it had only been ordered in case the B-29 project did not pan out.
Sakai
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Originally posted by Sakai
Yeah, B-32 was shot down by Sakai's group as last aerial kill by Japan as I recall. It was not widely used and was immediately cancelled as it had only been ordered in case the B-29 project did not pan out.
Sakai
Yeah, I heard about that, but I did not know much about B-32 Dominator in combat, but it supposed to take B-24 places and work together with B-29 Super Fortress bomber. B-32 was ultimately overshadowed by running mate's success and then later, i dont think B-32 didn't see action in Korean War 1950-1953.
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B29 belongs in the game period.
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i'll take a b24 or b25 before the b29 anyday for Us bombers
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
i'll take a b24 or b25 before the b29 anyday for Us bombers
And I think there are a raft of planes that should be included before the B-29.
It belongs in the game because of its extensive service, but there are 6 years of history to flesh out before we toss it in.
How about an He-111? Il-4? Ki-21?
All the great planes from when the issue was in doubt? We need all those before the B-29. Like:
He111
D017Z
Do217 (or He177)
Ju88 variants
Sm79
Cant 1007 Alcione
Gloster Gladiator
Cr42
I-16
Lagg3
MiG3
Il-4
Pe-2
Wellington
P-38 variants (at least G and J? Anyone?)
P-39
Ki-84
Early Jap Bomber (Ki-21 or 48 and G4M)
Ki-43
Ki-44
Ki-45
More Zero variants
Later Jap DB/TB
B-25
Lockheed Hudson
Loire et Olivier LeO 451
SB2C
PBY
Short Sunderland
H8K
Many, many more. But in terms of planes that would play well in the current arena? Best choice has to be the Frank, Ki-84.
Sakai
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Okay I must agree, every new plane would be welcome, and I can imagine that many people want the B-29 but....why!?
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Originally posted by frank3
Okay I must agree, every new plane would be welcome, and I can imagine that many people want the B-29 but....why!?
I don't know why they want it, I do not. I think if everything else is modeled, fine. But it's too much for the game as currently configured. We need the bombers of other nations first and frankly fighters get more us in the MA so why a B-29? Want them all, but need some more than others.
Bring us the Ki-84 next.
Sakai
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I don't think we're ready for new planes yet. Just let HiTech work on Aces High II first, all the planes have to be remodelled and reskinned etc, not to mention all the new maps! They're busy enough for not worrying about new planes, which I can support.
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Originally posted by frank3
I don't think we're ready for new planes yet. Just let HiTech work on Aces High II first, all the planes have to be remodelled and reskinned etc, not to mention all the new maps! They're busy enough for not worrying about new planes, which I can support.
I don't think anyone is saying that there will be new planes before AH2 is released, I know I have no expeectation that we will see any until AH2 is running fairly well. I doubt we will see any new planes this year. We're simply daydreaming and giving reasons for the future.
Sakai
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Exactly, but it's good to hear some nice ideas of others :)
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Originally posted by Sakai
And I think there are a raft of planes that should be included before the B-29.
It belongs in the game because of its extensive service, but there are 6 years of history to flesh out before we toss it in.
How about an He-111? Il-4? Ki-21?
All the great planes from when the issue was in doubt? We need all those before the B-29. Like:
He111
D017Z
Do217 (or He177)
Ju88 variants
Sm79
Cant 1007 Alcione
Gloster Gladiator
Cr42
I-16
Lagg3
MiG3
Il-4
Pe-2
Wellington
P-38 variants (at least G and J? Anyone?)
P-39
Ki-84
Early Jap Bomber (Ki-21 or 48 and G4M)
Ki-43
Ki-44
Ki-45
More Zero variants
Later Jap DB/TB
B-25
Lockheed Hudson
Loire et Olivier LeO 451
SB2C
PBY
Short Sunderland
H8K
Many, many more. But in terms of planes that would play well in the current arena? Best choice has to be the Frank, Ki-84.
Sakai
I'm a fan of the early war stuff, however useless it will be in
the MA. I cannot see any usefull purpose for any flying boats
at this time, no matter how heavily gunned they were.
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Regarding adding B-29 to Aces High, read the book Flyboys.
B-29 didn't work that well at high alt and in Japan's jetstream. When it came down low, it was in such large numbers against such beaten opposition that it destroyed Japan city by city with firebombs with or without the two nukes.
But in Aces High, particularly in Main Arena with all the other uber planes in numbers limited only by player choice, the B-29 would face much stiffer opposition and therefore do much LESS well than it did in WWII.
Play like 10 B-29s go against any assortment of 10 F-4Us, P-47s, FW-190s, La-7s, Nikis, Tempests, Typhoons. What are the odds any single B-29 would get past any single late fighter, let alone a bunch of them?
The fear of adding the B-29 to Aces High has been greatly exaggerated.
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The B29 may be the highest priority aircraft to add to Aces High.
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I think there should be 2 variants of B-29...
1. Stock version (10 perks)
2. Nuke version that can destroy eveything within 5 mile radius. (same perks as 262)
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i agree with Sakai, there is tons more id like to see bfore B-29.
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Certainly there are many worthwhile planes yet to be added to Aces High. But for the biggest news value, impact, interest, and all-around sales appeal ...
wouldn't it be smart and profitable for Aces High to be the first (I think) WWII sim to offer the B-29?
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i don't know halo. if i had my druthers, buffs' bomb could not be made to drop under the wind layer.
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When is it going to quit? When we get to the Korean war planeset? Maybe the Veitnam era - hell lets get F/A-18s while were at it...lol!
Stick with the Early birds that saw the most action.
Instead of getting you panties in a wad about a "wish list" - get in AH2 BETA and help out there. No new planes gonna come out until after thats out.
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What are you babbling about. The B29 is not a korean war plane. 1000s of them flew in ww2 and they were operational before DDay. I say bring on the F8F and the F7F as well. No other reason required then they are cool WW2 planes.
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Originally posted by Pongo
What are you babbling about. The B29 is not a korean war plane. 1000s of them flew in ww2 and they were operational before DDay. I say bring on the F8F and the F7F as well. No other reason required then they are cool WW2 planes.
Oh yeah, Billy the rocket plane Capt. and his special friend Mr. Bomber boy need a new plane.
Why?
Because it will enhance aerial combat in the MA?
No.
Because it adds more than any other plane identified to special events, dueling, and the Combat Theatre?
No.
Because in a rolling planeset such as teh envisioned TOD there is a gaping hole for heavy Allied Bombers?
No.
Because "I want one", that's why.
What astute logic. I marvel at the simian perspicacity of these fellows. "It's the most needed" because I say so.
The B-29 is a fantastic plane, certainly. But in the MA it would not be used in the manner in which it was employed against Japan. It's bombload would be far out of proportion to what was useful due to the constraints of fuel requirements in the actual war. And let us be honest, many of our credibility challenged brethren in arms want one for a nuclear option.
The logical fallacy of the need for a nuke has been enunciated previously. But will be posted here to remind all of what is lost when the B-29 with nukes enters the fray:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69895&highlight=Stupidity
and:
Basically, the A-bomb represented the end of the romance of air warfare. The idea of dogfighting, while still germane to pilots, really only exists in the days prior to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki incidents. Given also that the arenas are too small for the use of such, you're basically talking about altering the world of AH for 2 seconds of pre-pubescent ridiculousness that has nothing in common in any real way with aerial combat. The impact of one man in a 29 outstrips anything that we all profess to love when we get excited about a P-40, 190, Spitfire, etc. It is therefore not relevant to this game.
If we had a B-29/A-bomb equipped arena, I'd like these to be the last two additions to the game, after the Gloster gladiator, Cr32, CR42, Fiat Br20, Mig-3, Ju-52, Me-410, Henschel 123, LaGG-3, P-39/P-400, I-16, Ki-84, Do-17, Wellington, PBY, B-25, Cant Herone, Sunderland, Heinkell 115, He-111, P108, SM 79, Z1007, Brewster, Finnish Myrsky, Dewoitine, Petoz, Fiesler Storch, Taylor L-5, Dutch Fokkers, Helldiver, Baltimore, Grace, Betty, Nell, Lilly, Sally, Ann, Manchester, Kingfisher, Hudson, Blenheim, Stirling, Saetta, etc., etc., after every other plane, fine.
Make the B-29 and A bomb well after all relevant ground vehicles and some just for fun have been introduced, make it after artillery and infantry, Japanese Destroyers, German VIICs (U-Boootwaffen), Italian transport planes, English armor, merchant ships for supply operations, Russian rocket launchers, and assorted coastal patrol craft of all nationalities mounting open 3"-5" guns and various caliber MG.
Model the B-29 only after love is gone, romance is dead, Chivalry slain, comaraderie forsaken, and all hope is lost, for that is what the A-bomb stands for.
In fact, only model it to have a perpetual A-Bomb Arena with sides having a bunch of extremely large cities defended by 163s, Salamanders, F8s, F7s, and 262s and B-29s and A-bombs. Play to your hearts' content, but not until the CR42 and Brewster Buffalo have had their say, and one man versus one man in honorable combat has been played to its death knell. Something which obviates the A-bomb entirely, since that knell has not tolled, as we still pine for it as evidenced by our participation here.
Thanks for the thread,
Yours,
Sakai
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I'm with Sakai :)
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Originally posted by Pongo
What are you babbling about. The B29 is not a korean war plane.
B29 flew in Korea as well as WWII.
Originally posted by Pongo
1000s of them flew in ww2 and they were operational before DDay.
OK - little history....the 58th Bomber Wing was formed in Marietta, Georgia in June of 1943. As far as being "operational" before D-day, they were training missions and setting up / moving to bases in Marrakech and India. ONE time Before DDAY did a b29 see combat...when it was attacked by by ki-43s while ferrying FUEL..not bombs to China.
What day was DDay? June 6, 1944....The first bombing raid into Japan with b29s occured around June 15th 1944. 75 were scheduled for the mission. Only 68 made it to target.
As fars as the "1000's" of B29s that flew in WW2...only a little more than 2700 were actualy produced by Boeing...this is also including production counted after WW2. There were roughtly 1000 or less made by a few other manufacturing plants.
Oh yeah - 2 more History stops on this bus trip......for homework.
Go reasearch "Operation Matterhorn" - a failure for the 300 or so(not 1000s) b29s in service in China / India
Also check out the "Battle of Kansas" This is most likely where the "thousands" of B29s saw service.
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The F7F Tigercat and F8F Bearcat were too late for WWII.
As for impact in Aces High, the B-29 would be a faster Lanc with heavier defensive armament. Not an insurmountable problem.
As for nukes, a separate issue, maybe one per side per map change for only highest perk achiever. After all, only two were dropped in WWII, and none since then.
Wouldn't do at all to ruin Aces High with rains of nukes. Most the damage to Japan was from other bombing, not just the nukes.
No target in Aces High except maybe country headquarters would be worth a nuke.
Even then, political sensitivities might make nukes the ruination of Aces High. Fascinating as cyber nukes might be, if I were HiTech & Co. I would never allow nukes in Aces High.
I would add the B-29, however, along with the many other worthwhile nominees ever since this bulletin board began.
Meanwhile, I applaud Aces High for the ride choices so far and wish somehow we could get regular new rides more frequently the way we used to. More early and mid war rides certainly would enhance the great Combat Theater scenarios.
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tallboy bombs for lancasters should be made before b29s.......... :aok
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Waffle. you could have saved some time and just said that I am right instead of listing how I am right.
Probably the first time that someone has argued a point by listing the evidence against his own side of the argument.
It was in combat befor D Day. There where thousands of them in service in ww2.
Thanks.
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Originally posted by Sakai
Model the B-29 only after love is gone, romance is dead, Chivalry slain, comaraderie forsaken, and all hope is lost, for that is what the A-bomb stands for.
Sakai,
I think that many of those Veterans that were not killed or mamed during the planned Invasion of Japan and got to return home to live their loved ones and continue their lives after a war none of them started would tend to disagree with you a bit.
More than likely, the cost to Japan also would have been VERY MANY TIMES worse had the Allies went through with the invasion and had to take the country by force (along with a Soviet Invasion). Japan as a nation could very well have been destroyed forever and damn sure wouldn't recover to what it is today.
Just something to think about....
FTR: I agree with you - the A-Bomb has no place in this or any other game. Way too serious and solem a moment in history - for every side involved. Right up there with putting Concentration Camps in the game for "background".
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Speaking of war atrocities, does anyone else find it offensive that we have to strafe down a church and a farm to capture a base?. Why not make the church a Communazi HQ and the farm a sturmtrooper barracks? :)
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Shame to leave out the B29 because it hurts peoples feelings.
Is there a major weapon in WW2 that will not hurt peoples feelings?
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I would like to see the B-29A in AH2, but no nuclear bombs.
The thing, to me, that argues against the B-29A is the amount of work for SUPERFLY/NATEDOG on this one airplane. It is huge and would take a lot of work when compared with smaller bombers and fighters.
As to the nuke, well, that is not going to happen as I understand it. I recall HiTech or Pyro stating that the largest bomb in AH was going to remain the 4,000lber.
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Very nice Sakai, start off by damning his opinions, then come out with some emotional BS about how the B-29 is a travesty to warfare.
I don't care for the A bomb, since it is a little ridiculous, but the plane served in great numbers and with significant impact in the war. Building off what Pongo said, why not remove the Stuka since it was so prevalent in the brutal attack on Poland? The Lancaster since it bombed German cities?
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Originally posted by Jester
Sakai,
I think that many of those Veterans that were not killed or mamed during the planned Invasion of Japan and got to return home to live their loved ones and continue their lives after a war none of them started would tend to disagree with you a bit.
More than likely, the cost to Japan also would have been VERY MANY TIMES worse had the Allies went through with the invasion and had to take the country by force (along with a Soviet Invasion). Japan as a nation could very well have been destroyed forever and damn sure wouldn't recover to what it is today.
Just something to think about....
FTR: I agree with you - the A-Bomb has no place in this or any other game. Way too serious and solem a moment in history - for every side involved. Right up there with putting Concentration Camps in the game for "background".
Right, but then, I am not arguing about the use of the bomb in WWII, I am agreeing it's ridiculous for this game.
Sakai
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(http://www.sim-outhouse.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=86237)
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Skuzzy has assured me that Pyro has assured him that HT has assured him that the entire SCW planeset will be modeled before the B-29 so I'm good with this. There ya go. :D
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Spanish Civil War is for poofties
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Look ... already someone excited. Glad to see it's right up your alley, Pong `ol boy. :D
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I got in on this post late, but I say we definetely need a perked bomber worth something. That arado is kinda fun to fly, but just useless as far as bomb load... I'd rather take a jug up, at least it has forward firing guns. Also, I think it is worth noting that the B24 belongs in the game. Carried more bomb load than the 17, was faster and had more range than the 17, and if I remember right was one of, if not widely produced US bomber in the air campaign. I'm not saying immediately, but it would be nice =)
I will take my seat back in the peanut gallery now :aok
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the B29 did see alot of use but does aces high need it before other bombers that played a more major part in WW2
how about the HE111 and the T-2 and other bombers
the COMBAT THEATER and TOD need a slower japan bomber for early setups they dont have a slow bomber for the early warbirds
but as i see it the B-29 is not needed at all i mean if people fly bombers on a rare moon then why even make more heavy bombers
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:mad: :furious :mad: