Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: lazs2 on March 10, 2004, 09:03:47 AM
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when they aren't commiting suicide or working on the next quadruple turbo 64 valve four banger or copying a chevy small block to get into nascar or beating each other up on bizzare game shows....
they invent the 'airsoft' gun. They aren't allowed to have "real" guns so they go overboard on these things. The first ones were spring powered plastic things that looked only vaguely like some kind of firearm they all fire 6mm plastic pellets.
but now.... the guns are exact replicas of real firearms and run off either gas or electric gear motors... mostly all semi auto or full auto and shoot the 6mm pellets at up to 400 fps.
They copy Hk's and glocks and Colts down to the patent markings... The guns are metal and the pistols weigh a couple of pounds... One I looked at was a "Wilson combat custom" colt .45 1911... It loads with a clip and the slid blows back with every shot... even sounds like a (muted) gun going off. The thing costs allmost 200 bucks!
They have uzis and thompsons and M16's and Ak 47's and the rifles run as high as 400 bucks.
The trigger on the Wilson combat along with some other parts will swap out with a real Colt.
Countries that get too restrictive seem to really nut out.
lazs
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Oh, gotta be the 1st kid on my block to get one of those!
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What are they used for? Target practice? Paintball?
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Originally posted by gofaster
What are they used for? Target practice? Paintball?
pokemon and hamtaros.
and "compensation" for ricers.
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I thought airsoft was invented in the US as an alternative to paintball?
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Actually, they get together and have mock wars / fights with these things.
But everyone knows the real fun starts at 2700fps.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Actually, they get together and have mock wars / fights with these things.
if germany invades france again, i'm gonna start to worry a little.
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I wouldn't mind if my next Peugeot would have a plate "Made in Mulhouse, Germany".
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Those whacky American masons...they should have used a whacky Japanse gun.
Whacked. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20040310/od_nm/crime_masons_dc)
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Airsoft has been around for years. Its just recently become more popular in the states. It sees to me prices have gone down some recently as well.
After having played paintball a little bit, I think I'd rather play airsoft.
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yep.. guys get all dressed up like militia and hide from each other.
You really can't tell that these guns are not real without checking. You have to insert a very real looking magazine and rack back the slides to load em. Apparently they are very accurate at 50 foot range.
They probly cost as much as a .22 to shoot as they use some sort of freon charge called "green gas".
The one I seen a movie of was a Berreta 93r. This is a firearm that is rare in "real steel" as they call real firearms... It is a modfied berrata 92 with extended barrel and mag and selective fire for semi, full or three round burst... it has a folding front "grip" to aid in holding it down during recoil. The airsoft gun does everything the same except shoots 20 grain 6mm plastic pellets at 300 fps instead of124 grain 9mm slugs at 1100 fps.
The thompson A1 submachoine gun is full size and weighs about 3 pounds and fires at 900 rpm.
The mac 11 actually fires from an open bolt at like 1200 rpm...
lazs
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I have 3 airsoft guns, and they are convincing replicas (Steyr Aug with the Phantom silencer mod, M16A2 and MP5K. You should see the new full-metal M4 from Classic Army. It's difficult to tell it apart from the real one until you actually have one in your hands.
Airsoft is not supposed to be a sport for countries where gun laws are strict, and it is VERY popular in the US.
It's perfect for having a great time with your friends while playing combat games.
I tried paintball but I prefer Airsoft, even with the "inmortals".
Daniel
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If I want to target practice in the house I will use real firearms with wax or plastic bullets powered by the primer....
Real guns feel really real in the hand.
glad I don't live in a place that gave up it's rights.... yet.
lazs
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What about combat games? You don't like them?
Daniel
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Ive always been intrigued by Airsoft - Id like to try playing some time but there are no fields anywhere near me.
In fact, as far as I can tell, its huge in SoCal and nowhere else in the states.
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sorry... After using real guns, playing soldier with fake ones doesn't appeal.
They do not sound or recoil or heft like real weapons no matter what. The range is wrong. everything is wrong.
lazs
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You really should try it Lazs. It's not like real guns, and it's not intended to be. It's like playing a FPS but far better.
Here's a pic of some friends.
(http://www.101escuadron.org/AIRSOFT_01.JPG)
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ok... but... what scares me is that if one of them guys pointed one of those guns at me I would probly shoot him... Too realistic for either or us.
As I recall, all those airsoft guns come with orange tips on the barrels. Removing it and then taking it outdoors seems a little foolish...
besides... without the noise and the range it's just doesn't seem right... maybe if I couldn't own real guns... Sorta like AH is with real WWII fighter planes.
lazs
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Here we tend to take the red/orange tips out, since we play in restricted areas (the police is informed about these fields... and they actually come to gather information for their own personal use :) ).
A friend of mine was randomly pulled over by a police car and while the shock of opening the trunk to the sight of 2 AK-47 was obvious in the faces of the officers, they quickly became interested in the hobby :)
Daniel
PS: I fly in real life, and find Flight Simulators different to the real thing, but nevertheless cute and fund :D
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I would be a little wary of the folks that do that kind of thing. I get the feeling some of them would take it far too seriously...
Not saying you're a nutter, Cyrano, but you know what I mean? :)
I play FPS games. Perhaps one day they will invent a way of translating that into a non-lethal hobby that is a bit more realistic.
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Originally posted by Curval
Those whacky American masons...they should have used a whacky Japanse gun.
Whacked. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20040310/od_nm/crime_masons_dc)
Now I remember why I soured on fraternities in college.
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Originally posted by Dowding
I would be a little wary of the folks that do that kind of thing. I get the feeling some of them would take it far too seriously...
Not saying you're a nutter, Cyrano, but you know what I mean? :)
I play FPS games. Perhaps one day they will invent a way of translating that into a non-lethal hobby that is a bit more realistic.
Absolutely Dowding, that's why we always play with the same guys. There are some weirdos out there for sure.
Daniel
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Lazs - those guns we played with that day in Dixon - were they real, or were they Airsoft ones to get me started?
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LOL! Sig material!
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Daniel/Cyrano - does Spain have National Service (a compulsory period of military service to be served usually from around age 18)?? I know that some European countries do - Holland, and I believe Finland.
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beetle... they were real but not quite full power loads. except the .22 which was, of course, factory ammo. The 44 and 45 were using slightly underloaded reloads that I had made.
I have flown ultralights and small prop jobs but no way would I be able to fly WWII fighters with guns against other guys... I am interested in the lazer fighter plane flights tho.
lazs
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Laz
I own a M4 Airsoft. lol the thing is a hoot at gathering. Great fun to just screw around with, not as cool as the real thing, but then again the only M16 based guns you can get in cali anymore have a 10 round mag riveted into the reciever!
**** this state!
I look at is as the ultimate BB gun. I should have picked up the gas powered one over the Battery one :(
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A loophole in the airsoft rules allows you to use real bayonetts. Thus it always turns deadly.
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Holy crap this thing looks real to my untrained eye.
(http://www.airsoftatlanta.com/images/xxdpms_full_jpg.jpg)
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Originally posted by beet1e
Daniel/Cyrano - does Spain have National Service (a compulsory period of military service to be served usually from around age 18)?? I know that some European countries do - Holland, and I believe Finland.
There was, but not anymore. I believe it was voted against 2 or 3 years ago.
Daniel
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Went to the airsoft store once and checked it out. They look real but when I test fired it it didnt make a pop sound. At least with paintball guns they go pop when you shoot it. I prefer paintball still but I think airsoft would be interesting for playing CQB style combat.
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Heres a summary of my paintball and airsoft experience of the years.
I own two Airsoft guns, a P90, and a M4, both shooting around 380 FPS.
And own three painbull guns, shooting around 300 FPS.
We play Airsoft when there is a site we'd like to play with tight corners, i.e. in a building or warehouse. CQB is no fun with paintball, because it just hurts to damn much and can be very dangerous. While airsoft offers a sense of more realism due to the guns, style of play etc, but its just not as intense. Airsoft becomes much more strategic and played out with scenarios, i.e. hostages, bombs etc..
Paintball is purely for the shoot em up and make em feel it fun. I find paintball guns to be more accurate over 100 feet. And its easy to have Team Vs Team deathmatches, and play with folks that you don't know to well.
As far as the guns looking real in airsoft, is because thats how the airsofters like them... looking real. Its what makes the scenarios real.. the terrorist with a majority of AK47's and derivitives, and the assualting force, m4's, FNC's, Galil's etc..
Its for fun!
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Well one of the most interesting games I played was when one of the guys in our team who was also in the Marines called his buddies out and we played against real Marines. That was a woot, those guys were motivated but they used totaly different tactics than us paintballers. I think my friend was then in the reserves. They tended to keep really low like it was real bullets.
:D
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My team formed a very real bond. We are all still friends today. We had our skull patch on left arm and flag on right and lots of great memories. I can only imagine a real military unit and how they would bond due to adversity etc... Salute to them. We were just posers.
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Like I said before, the real fun starts at 2700 fps. All those with FPS under this are weak men.
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Originally posted by BlckMgk
CQB is no fun with paintball, because it just hurts to damn much and can be very dangerous.
Airsoft doesn't hurt as much as paintballs?
Paintballs hurt like heck up close..that is for sure. I was playing indoors once and I was hiding in a downstairs doorway of a small two storey structure they had against a wall. A guy came flying through the door and I fired as he approached but missed. (Didn't lead enough...he was moving! :) ) We then had a "showdown" just inside the building, me yelling "surrender" as well as him. He had basically dived through the door and was prone but with his gun pointing at me. I waited too long and he shot me just above my left hip.
Some girls were in the waiting room when I got off the field of play and were deciding whether to join their boyfriends in a few games (they were all total newbs). When they saw me come in grimacing in pain they asked if they could see the mark the paintball had left. I hadn't looked either, so I pulled up my shirt. It was purple and looked like I had a golf ball under my skin.
They decided not to play.
How does Airsoft work? How do you know when you get a kill?
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Well I have never been shot with Airsoft but I did shoot my GF point blank in the ass.
It was an accident, the damn gun was empty, I had dry fired it a lest 20 times. I hit the trigger and cause I had a bunch of **** in my arms, lol. She was PISSED! Said it hurt way worse and had a welt on her ass.
I kinda dount it is worse though. I got hit in the nuts with a paint ball, I could not walk right for 3 days.
LOL i learned from the incedent, its a toy but it really should be treat like a real gun.
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Originally posted by Curval
Airsoft doesn't hurt as much as paintballs?
Paintballs hurt like heck up close.....
How does Airsoft work? How do you know when you get a kill?
I can play with a shirt off and take a full clip of Airsoft at no more than 5 feet. Its like getting flicked with a pencil that has no eraser (someone who can give it a good flick) Paintsballs are just so much heavier. It'll sting if it hits bare skin, other wise its really hard to tell...
Thats the thing about airsoft, its much more based on an honor system, which is why its difficult to play with people you don't know. I've been hit so many times and not even know it, especially when you're running. They're very small plastic BB's some have different weights... I tell you what.. there was this dude who had a support weapon (m60 replica) and was shooting some nasty BB's almost the size of a paintball, ammo was expensive so was the gun, they looked like they were carrying plenty of energy... didn't feel like stepping in front of that (he was on our team haha!)
So, if you want to play with people you don't know, bring your Paintball guns, if you plan a scenario out with friends, and want some semi realism, with quick action, and to be safe, go with airsoft.
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Paintball beats Airsoft for sure...
Airsoft being more "real" because of the looks?
1 . With paintball you atleast are a bit scared of being hit, it hurts some...
2. You actually can get the paintball where you want it without the wind grabbing ahold of it...
3. Its harder to cheat in paintball because it leaves a paint mark on you when you are hit...
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Laz
the only M16 based guns you can get in cali anymore have a 10 round mag riveted into the reciever!
**** this state!
:(
Sounds like your gun regs are more anal than the regs here.
Couldn't you just drill out the rivets and use a detachable mag ?
If your ARs have got no mag catches that could be a problem.
At least that 10 rounder ain't welded in.
To legally own a rig like the AR15 in NZ you have two choices: if you you have a ordinary run of the mill fireams licence you must lose the flash hider,bayonet lug and pistol grip.Max mag capacity is 7 rounds and colapsable stocks on the shorty version is a no no. Compliance= a junked AR.
To get to keep all the good bits and use any mag capacity you want, you have to get your license endorsed .It's added cost and compliance but it's doable.
We've got those soft air gun replicas here to. Get seen in public with one of those things and your liable to wind up face down on the ground with a cops boot on yer back and the pointy end of his M4 at yer head.
Excel
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haven't heard of the riveted in mags yet... I'm sure that is easily overcome tho. I have a mini 14 and can get 40 round mags all day long. Still see 30 round Ar mags for sale.
My son just bought the airsoft 93r I will try it out.
lazs
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Excel1
You could drill the rivet, the lower is the same so putting a mag catch in would not be hard.
You would be comiting a feloney though. It is a big no no to make a "non assault rifle" into an Assault rifle in the state of California.
Laz, You can still pick up Mini 14s and 30s, with removable box mags. They are the same as they have always been sans flashhider. What gets the AR, is it conspicuos pistol grip.
You can still buy M1A as well with removable mags.
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Originally posted by Maniac
Paintball beats Airsoft for sure...
Airsoft being more "real" because of the looks?
1 . With paintball you atleast are a bit scared of being hit, it hurts some...
2. You actually can get the paintball where you want it without the wind grabbing ahold of it...
3. Its harder to cheat in paintball because it leaves a paint mark on you when you are hit...
Yea...gotta agree, though I've never shot an Airsoft weapon.
The fear factor is certainly real....I don't like playing inside because it is too dark (the masks make it even HARDER to see)and the action is too close up.
Outdoor paintball is fantastic. You still get the fear factor, but at least you can see what is going on...and the actions is much more spread out.
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what do you think of this one ? FAMAS has always been my favourite design, cute in an ugly sort of way ;)
(http://www.nipponhobbies.com/airsoft/images/famas.jpg)
http://www.nipponhobbies.com/airsoft/famas.htm
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I have a cheap airsoft pistol I bought from Sports Authority. I only fired it indoors, those pellets are so fast they ricochet around my house and come back at me when I fire from fifteen feet and miss the target.
Gun weighs 1.6 lb, looks and feels pretty real to me.
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If I want to target practice in the house I will use real firearms with wax or plastic bullets powered by the primer....
another that works well is foam earplugs. wipe a little silicone sealer on one end (or the primer will burn a hole through), and put a little oil on them.
they fly great for about 15-20 yds and then slow down fast. reusable and very easy to load. just roll them up and drop them in the case, they expand to fit.
the kind with the rounded end are great for 9mm. they extend from the brass about the same as a normal projectile, allowing them to feed through the action.
at about 15-20 feet they'll pick they neigbors up cat off the fence while he stalks the wifes bird-feeder. (and leave him unharmed).
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The one reason airsoft looks appealing is that it's still played "naturally" -- either in the woods or in some sort of mock-up of a real situation. So many paintball fields are going to a "concept" design; clearing out what used to be a great wooded field in favor of a big clearing with a a bunch of plywood "buildings," some tires, 55 gallon drums, or other cover dotted around. The emphasis in paintball now seems to be on throwing hundreds of rounds at targets 50 yards across a clearing. I miss the fieldcraft, the sneaking, the ambushes, etc. Sitting in a bunker firing as fast as possible gets boring real fast.
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You see laz needs to have a long steel shaft in his hand that can kill people with its projectiles in order to feel like a man.
Oh and that toyota engine will destroy nascar. It is not a chevy knockoff. Total new apporach to old technology.
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Originally posted by Hristo
what do you think of this one ? FAMAS has always been my favourite design, cute in an ugly sort of way ;)
(http://www.nipponhobbies.com/airsoft/images/famas.jpg)
http://www.nipponhobbies.com/airsoft/famas.htm
The FA-MAS from Tokyo Marui is ok, though a bit dated. The 700 series engine has a nice torque, but I prefer the 1000. You may find it's to "plasticky".
If you like bullpup designs, you can try the P90 (good airsoft weapon if you can get used to the way of holding it) or the Steyr Aug, whose only real downside is the weight.
Daniel
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Thanks, Cyrano. It is just that FAMAS is my favorite rifle design and there really is no choice for me. If I buy airsoft, it will be the FAMAS.
Just read this review http://www.mfiap.com/airsoft/famas.htm
(http://www.mfiap.com/airsoft/famas_c.jpg)
It says EG560 motor ? Is that a good thing, compared to other motors like EG700 or EG 1000 ?
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Several questions:
1.) How are the bbs propelled? Is it gas or something else? I keep reading about electrical motors but I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that these are only there to feed the bbs into the breech
2.) During gameplay, how do you confirm hits? Like somebody above mentioned, there are no paint marks, so hits would have to be either determined voluntarily.
3.) They claim muzzle velocities of around 250fps... I've cranked my paintball gun to over 500 before(although this is dangerous and was never used in gameplay), enough to put proballs through half-inch sheets of drywall. How high can you crank the airsoft guns, or is 250 the limit?
4.) Are the pellets reusable, or do they pretty much die after hitting a hard surface?
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Cpt. Pork, from what I read, the motor is electric, but BBs are propelled by gas piston.
Round velocity can be in extreme cases increased up to 700-800 fps. MOre realistically up to 500 fps.
As for reusing BBs, they say it is a no-no, as this is a major cause of malfunctions. But I guess if it isn't all that damage and reused ones are cleaned, how could there be a difference.
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As GScholz said, the motor moves the spring that moves the piston, which can send the BBs up to 600 fps. In most cases, 500-550 fps is the maximum, and only allowed in shot-by-shot sniper rifles, which can be loaded with graphite BBs that weigh up to 0.5 grams, standard weights being 0.2 to 0.25 grams.
Snipers are not allowed to shoot if the target is closer than 10 meters, and in most cases carry a backup weapon (short AEG or gas pistol).
There are some nice airsoft guns out there, like the Vulcan, that uses both gas and an electric motor to shoot like 50 BBs per second. :)
There are also grenades which really are a grenade-shaped styrofoam with a firecracker inside. Its surface is covered by BBs. You light it, throw it... and you can imagine the rest.
I know some companies are developing an airsoft claymore as well.
Daniel
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froggie seems a little too interested in my sex life.
I sure don't get it.. seems some of the most anti gun guys are into shooting each other with paint and these things. No matter how realistic the guns look they are in no way anything like fireing a real gun. So why make em look so much like real guns? Why paint over the orange tip?
lazs
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It's harmless, safe fun. What's so strange about it? We also play videogames in which we fire all kinds of guns, and that doesn't make me want to own a rocket launcher.
Daniel
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To me, airsoft is something where I can play a game against other opponents, where not only accuracy and cunning is required, but also physical abilities, stamina and coordination.
I really think of it as improved first person shooters. In fact, they are probably healthier for overweight kids than sitting in front of their monitors.
Nothing more to do with real guns that computers games.
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Sorry Hristo, I forgot about your last question.
Indeed the FA-MAS has the old EG560. The EG700 has better torque and speed, while the EG1000 loses a bit of torque but wins in speed (a difference of about 100 BBs per minute).
I have 2 guns with the EG1000 (Steyr Aug and M16A2) and one with EG700 (MP5K), and while the first two shoot at a higher cadence, the last one has a nice sound to it.
Daniel
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There are also grenades which really are a grenade-shaped styrofoam with a firecracker inside. Its surface is covered by BBs. You light it, throw it... and you can imagine the rest.
I know some companies are developing an airsoft claymore as well.
back when we were stupid kids, shooting each other with BB guns, we had simular gear.
we'd cover large firecrackers with about 3/4" of wax for granades. we'd use a hot knife to carve them into a pineapple shape. when they hit they left a fairly dark bruise.
we had 'claymores' made that fired electricly. they could be set up to be triggered manually, by tripwire, or a compression trigger that you could set upto 10' from the charge. the 'claymore' fired a couple ounces of blue 'chalk-line' chalk, to mark anyone who it 'killed'.
it always frustrated the hell out of our moms, that we wouldn't put that much creativity into something even remotely usefull.
by the time we decided we should stop this screwing around someone really did 'loose an eye' ( he still has the eye but also a BB permanently lodged against his optic nerve, shutting off half of his field of view for one eye). it was fairly difficult coming up with a logical explaination for the sheriff when he investigated this 'gunshot wound' (the hospital had to report it as if it was a real shooting), the best answer I could come up with was that "It seemed to be the thing too do, at the time"
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Ouch!
I believe it's only common sense and it's obligatory anyway to wear a protective mask.
Daniel
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Funny blue chalk story...
I am in 6th grade and live accross the street from the school. So I get to go home for lunch. I take a budy with me. I have an old BBgun that does work well, wont shoot bbs but will shoot air.... so we would pour the marking chalk down the barrel and shoot stuff with it.
SO just as we have to go back, by buddie pulls the trigger on it, while its aimed at me, he thought it was empty cause nothing had come out the last time... well it wasnt. My face was BLUE! I looked like a ****ing smurf!!
LOL I did not get it all off either cause I couldnt get the stuff around my eyes. it looked like I had wiped off blue lipstick and eyeliner cause there where still traces.
The rest of that day SUCKED!
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Ok... exercise... fresh air... play.. don't wanna really hurt anyone.
I understand that but... why do they have to look exactly like real firearms?
GS... I know guys from Norway who have weapons with silencers... It is much harder to get a silencer here.
lazs
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Originally posted by Shane:
and "compensation" for ricers.
Now that's funny!
:rofl