Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: beet1e on March 11, 2004, 10:46:07 AM
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If being a snob is a corollary of being dismayed by this story, so be it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/03/11/nslang11.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/03/11/ixhome.html
Terms like "fix up" and "what's gwan" may be popular on the street, but they are costing thousands of youths the chance of a job because they cannot speak English properly, according to education and business leaders.
The proliferation of street slang and text messaging has become so problematic that many youngsters are now "virtually unemployable".
While exam boards are reporting an increase in teenagers writing in "text", the verbal slang, made more popular by the likes of the comedian Ali G and rap artists such as So Solid Crew and 50 Cent, is exasperating businesses.
Nick Seaton, the chairman of the Campaign for Real Education, said oral skills should be given as much emphasis in the classroom as reading and writing. Teachers should be more rigorous in correcting pupils' bad use of speech, he said.
"The key purpose of state education is to provide children of all backgrounds with a basic grasp of written and spoken English," he said. "If that is not happening then the system is failing them."
Business leaders said employing someone who speaks poor English costs firms "time and effort" to bring them up to scratch.
Chris Clifford, a spokesman for the Confederation of British Industry (CBI), said many bosses were having to pay for flaws within the education system. "What happens is employers have to start doing remedial training as a result of this," he said. "They are having to spend time and effort bringing people up to the level they would expect them to be at when they come out of the education system."
Gulfram Khan, the chairman of the Conservative Party in Aston, Birmingham, said the language barrier was costing youths jobs.
"This means that they are either not getting jobs or getting the lowest form of menial work," he said. "A lot of them go to interviews and are completely unable to express themselves in that sort of situation. While they may fit in on the streets, in the workplace they stand out like a sore thumb. If you can't speak good English, how can you expect someone to give you a good job?"
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Your title compelled me to take you off ignore lol.
Beetle
In comparison to some of the jokers on this BBS now you are a saint! lol.
In regards to the Owned pwn3d etc BS, I think all the guys who use it up here only use it as a joke. (I hope)
I find it interesting that this is causing a problem. It is hard to believe that, this stuff gets used every day and the people doing it are incapable of speaking English properly. Scary really.
Gangsta rap and FPS have made a real impact on society! They have made our youth DUMB!
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WOW!! I can really agree wholeheartedly with something beet1e has posted! :aok
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3@8 5h18 b122@ch35!!!
BTW nothing cracks me up more than the English worrying about bastardization of their language. You can't bastardize a bastard.
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I think they are more worried about people who can't spell or add up, rather than the Ali G impersonations.
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Beetle has his momnents.
for this post!
I have to wholeheartedly agree. This crap about "multiculturalism" and promotion of artificial "diversity" has spawned a severe outbreak of minor "cultures". I say this as I have had educators (of all people) tell me that the use of slang is a "cultural" thing and should be protected.
When I protested and asked what was the cultural basis for those who refer to women as "Biatches and " Ho's", others as the "N" word, hispanics as "greasers, beaners, taco benders", etc. and why it would be something to promote or condone. I was told I was "racist". This was especially funny after I asked where in the "culture" did these terms indicate they came from other than as derogotory insults. I saw no indication of them in the "home" countries of the "cultures" involved.
Frankly I see it as a massive sign of a lack of respect for others.
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Just the good ole boys.......Can you guys possibly sound any older? Slang has always been around and always will be. It stems mostly from the seperation of classes and races. People try and establish an identity within there culture, usually the one that has oppressed them. Usually being forced to speak in a language other than their native tounge establishes alot of slang, and passes the tradition down as a means of forming some kind of identity to that group. Do you really think rappers dont know how to speak correct english? For shizzle my nizzle?
That actually comes from cleveland area circa 1970s i believe. Street people would use code words to speak to each other without the police knowing what they were talking about. Its 2004 guys..wake up!
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Do you really think rappers dont know how to speak correct english?
Ummm... yes? I heard an interview with 50 cent - he sounded like he had been under sedation for 3 months and had then decided to watch the entire back catalogue of Friends. What a moron. A lucky moron to be sure, but a moron nonetheless. And I love how every single time he makes an appearance, they mention how he 'caught a few shells'. Talk about glamorising the violence.
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"This crap about "multiculturalism" and promotion of artificial "diversity" has spawned a severe outbreak of minor "cultures".
I was told I was "racist".
Gee..why would anyone ever say that?....
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Teens are always looking for a way to say something in a different manner than their parents.
Remember when "cool" began meaning something other than a relative temperature?
I grew up in the "totally tubular" 80's with Valley Girls and surfer-dudes. Like, you know?
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Jaxxo
You are full of ****.
There is nothing racist about expecting people to learn how to speak the language of the land they live in. Most of these dip****s do not even have that excuse since they have been borne and raised here.
And yes I am sure many of the rappers have no idea how to speak proper english.
On top of that they are only hurting themselves... If you can not read and write proper english you going to have hard time finding a job at anywhere but a fast food joint.
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gofaster
There is a difference there. I do not think anyone had trouble understanding what we had to say in the 80s, slang then was minor, a word here and their.
It is worse now I think.
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Jaxxo - slang may well have been around always. But at least back in the day, youth was employable.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
There is a difference there. I do not think anyone had trouble understanding what we had to say in the 80s
Well, dude, you know, like, you know, like, no way, like, totally, you know.
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MZ
Not everyone talked like a Valley girl lol.
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Originally posted by jaxxo
"This crap about "multiculturalism" and promotion of artificial "diversity" has spawned a severe outbreak of minor "cultures".
I was told I was "racist".
Gee..why would anyone ever say that?....
So in your opinion "culture" equates to race. So who is the racist?
Please note that I did not indicate that these terms were exclusive to any "race". BTW AFAIAC there is only ONE race of humans on this planet, they just come in differet colors and shapes. If you feel differently that's your problem, not mine. I am definately prejudiced regarding behaviors, not the shape nor color of the skin of a person.
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It's the duty of every generation to earn the dissapproval of their elders.
Only I feel really bad for the next generation. What are they going to have to come up with that will shock a generation that:
- Uses every curse word available in multiple languages in their music
- Causally refers to each other in the most derogetory manner possible - even inventing new words to do so
- Is as sexually explicit as you can get
- Shoots at each other using real bullets
To blow their parents minds, the poor kiddies may have to put some underware on and start refering to sex and drugs using thinly veiled idioms. Wouldn't that be a throwback to the '70s.
(Son what does that mean, "She's a Brick House"?
"Oh, Dad, that just a hip way of saying she's a ****ing **gg*r ho!").
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Originally posted by Dowding
Ummm... yes? I heard an interview with 50 cent - he sounded like he had been under sedation for 3 months
He prolly was sedated, Anybody shot 9 times prolly has an extensive medicene cabinet. In the new Playboy he gives an interview. It sheds a little bit more light on his past.
I like Rap, but I dont like Rap that glorifies violence.
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did the world stop turning or something ??!!??!
I find myself agreeing whole-heartedly with Beetle.. er I mean "beet1e" :rofl
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Wlfgng
Strange times these...
I read a news artical that a 3 headed 6 legged frog was found.
Are these the end days?
Are the four horsmen going to ride?
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Holy Smoke! I here find myself typing that I agree with Beetle...Oh well life is full of small wonders and miracles.
Beetle this article has hit on several things that we are currently experiencing here in the United States in the company I work for. I periodically fall into the trap of feeling more at home writing something out than actually speaking with someone but its hard to be that way being in sales. Its hard to see until someone says something that actually causes you to look in the mirror and see what is happening.
Another aspect to look at is how easily and quickly foul language has been adopted into everyday language. There are times I find myself using F**king, S**t, etc... when talking to people I know or even when I am with customers. It just happens and they don't think anything of it since they are doing the same thing. That is a hard habit to break yourself of once you get to using the words.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Wlfgng
Strange times these...
I read a news artical that a 3 headed 6 legged frog was found.
Are these the end days?
Are the four horsmen going to ride?
Some people believe that these are indeed the end times and infact the first of the horsemen has riden but that is getting off of the purpose of Beet1e's post.
I can only hope that I am able to EDUCATE my young son's in a manner that will teach them respect for civil authority, other people and how to treat others in everyday situations. Especially how they should talk to adults and women. In doing so it has forced me to reevaluate my outlook and the sometimes smart butt comments that I make from time to time.
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I am glad they talk that way... it makes it easier for me to dicriminate.
lazs
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On the other hand, anybody taking a scan at the collective postings on this BBS could only draw the conclusion that we're all foreign tounged dolts doing our feable best at expressing ourselves in a language that we learned from watching old westerns on TV and listening to rock 'n roll.
And it's not like those from the UK are one's to bring this topic up. From what I can tell none of them speak a recognizable form of english anyway ;)
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I am glad they talk that way... it makes it easier for me to dicriminate.
:rofl
uh.. discriminate bro (grin) I know, that damned sticky S key
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I have 2 kids, a boy, 13 and a girl, 14, who think that kind of slang is lame. They tell me the only kids at school who use it are retards.
*sniff* I'm so proud of them. :D
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RAP B short for CRAP
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Originally posted by Samiam
It's the duty of every generation to earn the dissapproval of their elders.
Only I feel really bad for the next generation. What are they going to have to come up with that will shock a generation that:
- Uses every curse word available in multiple languages in their music
- Causally refers to each other in the most derogetory manner possible - even inventing new words to do so
- Is as sexually explicit as you can get
- Shoots at each other using real bullets
To blow their parents minds, the poor kiddies may have to put some underware on and start refering to sex and drugs using thinly veiled idioms. Wouldn't that be a throwback to the '70s.
(Son what does that mean, "She's a Brick House"?
"Oh, Dad, that just a hip way of saying she's a ****ing **gg*r ho!"). [/B]
Easy. they can become clergy ;) Well not the pedophile kind,
but I'm sure the normal clergy will be traumatic enough :)
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How a person speaks, dresses, acts or smells on his own time is his own business. Poor language skills (oral and written, spelling included), sloppy clothes, rude or unacceptable behavior and poor hygiene are the kiss of death in a legitimate job interview. I have sent many applicants down the road for showing up wearing piercings, talking to me like I was one of their 'Homies' or just plain smelling foul. This does not mean that a well dressed, well groomed, articulate applicant is better... they are the one you catch stealing from you later on.
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Originally posted by rpm371
How a person speaks, dresses, acts or smells on his own time is his own business. Poor language skills (oral and written, spelling included), sloppy clothes, rude or unacceptable behavior and poor hygiene are the kiss of death in a legitimate job interview. I have sent many applicants down the road for showing up wearing piercings, talking to me like I was one of their 'Homies' or just plain smelling foul. This does not mean that a well dressed, well groomed, articulate applicant is better... they are the one you catch stealing from you later on.
They are the ones cutting into your take huh....
:p
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Originally posted by Maverick
They are the ones cutting into your take huh....
:p
You better believe it! :)
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Originally posted by jaxxo
Just the good ole boys.......Can you guys possibly sound any older? Slang has always been around and always will be.
Yobanavrot!
Sorry, couldn't resist...
I can write literaturelly (SP? sorry!) clean Russian, I know my own language, and it's a rare occasion now. Most of the people I see on the Net use some kind of punk Russian.
I can find only one explaination: people who don't read can't spell. If you read 100 pages daily - you can't spell wrong. Especially if this 100 pages are classics, not the fiction by the lamers who are not readers but writers...
I don't care about the age. I only kindly ask you to check your spelling and grammar, so I will be able to practice English :)
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Originally posted by Samiam
On the other hand, anybody taking a scan at the collective postings on this BBS could only draw the conclusion that we're all foreign tounged dolts doing our feable best at expressing ourselves in a language that we learned from watching old westerns on TV and listening to rock 'n roll.
Sorry, I was taught to speak English somehow in school. And living in USSR I have never seen any old Westerns on TV at all...
Originally posted by Samiam
And it's not like those from the UK are one's to bring this topic up. From what I can tell none of them speak a recognizable form of english anyway ;)
You'll be surprised - but their English is much easier to understand for lame "commies" like me.
Russian Commonwealth doesn't have such problems. Kazakhs usually speak Russian more correctly then Russians, and Ukrainians have an advantage in humorous speech :)
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I cant believe that you guys actually believe this is an issue of race or can even blame it on hip hop.
Correct me if I am wrong. The majority of posters in this community are middle aged or older white males. Sometime I wish you guys would open your eyes and see things beyond what you see or read in the news.
1. Every race has their own form of slang. pwn3d is not apart of the slang I am familiar with. Being a 31 y/o black male who grew up on hip hop and still listens to it I dont recall ever hearing pwned until I started online gaming. I wonder which race are the majority of online gamers.
2. Ever thought that rappers talked the way they do before they started rapping? You cant possible think they created all the slang words.
3. As for correct English, I wonder why we dont talk today as people did back when Shakespear was alive.
4. Education plays a big part like the article says. The education system is different depending on where you live. You can agree or not agree but lets think about this. I went to school in South Central Los Angeles. I can tell you that my school did not recieve the same funding as a school in Beverly Hills would receive. If you wish to debate this visit an inner city school and one in a suburb. You will see the difference in the quaility of books facilities and equipment.
5. Instead of blaming our kids actions on TV, MUSIC or even CULTURE, why not blame ourselves. If your kid walks around constantly talking in slang, it is because YOU let them.
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"I don't care about the age. I only kindly ask you to check your spelling and grammar, so I will be able to practice English "
You should get together with Belle. Excellent grammar and spelling to learn from.
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Slang is fine in people's personal lives. But I can't hire someone who cannot communicate clearly to my customers.
"5. Instead of blaming our kids actions on TV, MUSIC or even CULTURE, why not blame ourselves. If your kid walks around constantly talking in slang, it is because YOU let them."
You're right, it's up to the parents to make sure they can function in the business world.
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I agree. slang is fine.. er well, ok.
but it's no excuse for not being able to use correct grammar, etc.. or at least knowing how.
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What is funny is that 'Ebonics' was considered an actual language for a while. Even studied and taught for a small period of time IIRC.
More PC crap and guilt for the white man.
[edit] Seems Beet1e's got a new crusade since the gun control thing 'blew up' in his face. Hahaha, the pun just 'slays' me.
[/edit]
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
I agree. slang is fine.. er well, ok.
but it's no excuse for not being able to use correct grammar, etc.. or at least knowing how.
Sounds about right. If you lose a job because you can't switch gears from Slang to Standard English, then.. well boo hoo Peggy Sue, go grab a 40 and have a nice day.
-Sik
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lmao thats great, grab a 40 and have a nice day:D
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Jamusta, I'd say the vast vast majority of online gamers are in their teens to 20's. AH is sort of a niche community, the average age of the players here is probably 2-3 times the average age of most games.
Probably 99.5% of them are white or asian.
Everyone else.. J00 Sux0r!!!11!1. I r t3h 1337 R0x0r.111!!!one.
And gimme a friggin break, btw.
Just because I'm a ****up doesn't mean I don't know how to spell. I use 1337-5p34k because it is funny as hell. I also use it it ridicule people, not that they understand it half the time.
I think most people on the internet are smarter than your average person, although how that translates into "success" isn't clear. I think it actually is inversely related... the more time you spend on the internet, the less likely you are to be any sort of success in life. Or perhaps it is a direct correllation. The more you suck at life, the more time you spend on the internet.
Anyway, I wouldn't say "leetspeak" is the end of the world as we know it... mostly just kids/young adults having fun by being stupid.
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I read a lot and can't spell for crap.
lazs
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Originally posted by Urchin
Anyway, I wouldn't say "leetspeak" is the end of the world as we know it... mostly just kids/young adults having fun by being stupid.
... and becoming unemployable in the process. I use 1337-5p34k because it is funny as hell.
WTF is that? Where does it come from?!
I think what we see on the Internet is the result rather than the cause of illiteracy. My brother is a secondary school maths teacher and often laments the falling standards he sees. Amongst the many problems in the schools at which he has taught have been the "lad culture". That's the lifestyle in which, for example, it's preferable to hang out on street corners with friends than to complete school homework assignments. Apparently, street corners are "cool", and homework is not. The other problem is an overbearing obsession with mobile telephones. He has had to exclude pupils from lessons for using phones to send text messages during his lessons. The kids hate being excluded because they have to do their lessons in a private room supervised by a teacher. Very uncool!
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I agree that this is symptomatic of the problem and not a cause. The fact that quite a few Universities and Community Colleges are having to institute remedial classes just to bring incoming freshman UP to high school standards is another indicator. I blame parental inaction and lack of concern as the main problem.
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If it's not cool, it won't be done. Such is the problem with my generation.
Most teenagers are more concerned with getting ahead with thair friends than they are with their lives. Sure, they don't mind if they fail a class for spending too much time partying, but God forbid they be considered "uncool" by their friends. Not only is it an issue of parental responsibility, but it's also an issue of elietism and peer pressure...
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What can I say? Signature says it all.
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I like the fact that English is continually evolving as a language, and what a flexible language it is too. This evolution keeps the language vibrant because it imports new ideas into onto our mental maps. How boring it would be if we were still using the vocabulary and grammatical structures of our forefathers!
New words are often borrowed or minted because there are no existing words to satisfactorily describe the item or concept, and I think that 'Owned' or 'Pwned' does this really well.
I don't think we have an existing word in English which quite describes that feeling of domination and the fact that one's opponent is entirely within one's thrall.
Mark my words, years from today Judges, when sentencing criminals will say, 'Mr Biggs, you shall be sentenced to twenty years. Owned!'
Policians will stand up at the dispatch box at question time and say:
Mr. Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con) : The Leader of the House is fond of boasting, as he did today, about Ministers who come to the House to answer questions, but he has neglected to say that when Ministers give answers, they are either inadequate or non-existent. Will he conduct an exhaustive search throughout the Government to try to find a Minister who gives adequate, straightforward answers to questions in this place? If he finds such a person—I shall be impressed if he can—will that person then conduct a seminar for other Ministers, with the Prime Minister present, so that we might have some hope in the future of getting answers of any kind from Ministers?
Speaker: The Leader of the House has been Pwned!
Ravs
[3dited 4 sp3771ng and gr4mm4r]
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Originally posted by beet1e
... and becoming unemployable in the process. WTF is that? Where does it come from?!
I think what we see on the Internet is the result rather than the cause of illiteracy. My brother is a secondary school maths teacher and often laments the falling standards he sees. Amongst the many problems in the schools at which he has taught have been the "lad culture". That's the lifestyle in which, for example, it's preferable to hang out on street corners with friends than to complete school homework assignments. Apparently, street corners are "cool", and homework is not. The other problem is an overbearing obsession with mobile telephones. He has had to exclude pupils from lessons for using phones to send text messages during his lessons. The kids hate being excluded because they have to do their lessons in a private room supervised by a teacher. Very uncool!
Mobile phones, yea I'll agree that is a problem. Wasn't really when I was in high school, but apparently now you are allowed to have them if you don't *talk* on them. So you can set in class and IM your friends. We werent even allowed to have them at all. Homework sucks pretty big, however.. if I could go back into the past to high school... I'd bust my bellybutton now. I was always a pretty lackluster student, trying to change that now.
And I wish cell phones weren't allowed in class, or at least not if you are to stupid to keep it on vibrate only. Mine is always on, even in class, just in case... but it is always on vibrate so it won't go off in the middle of a lecture. Honest to God that happens at least once a day.
btw, "1337-speak" is pretty much just replacing letters with numbers or symbols. Once you get the hang of reading it, it is no problem at all.
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Just to stir the pot ... it come from someone having beet1e as handle :D
Because B33tl3 was not availlable :p ?
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I Never hear the word Pwned anywhere except the internet.
and i go to high school where slang is used.
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Beetle just needs something to gripe about:rolleyes:
Must suck to get old eh?
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Must suck to get old eh?
oh I see.. YOU aren't going to get old :)
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Originally posted by beet1e
[BThe other problem is an overbearing obsession with mobile telephones. He has had to exclude pupils from lessons for using phones to send text messages during his lessons. The kids hate being excluded because they have to do their lessons in a private room supervised by a teacher. Very uncool! [/B]
The day my son's get "excluded" from their classes for using a mobile (cell phone) for anything during school hours will be the day I throughly come unglued. A cell phone is for use when you are away from the home and not when you are in school/business meeting/business lunch/dinner with the family/etc...
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Guess they could always resort to writing combat flight sim software. ;)
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
oh I see.. YOU aren't going to get old :)
24 years young ty :)
I see that beetle just misses his lost childhood. Hey, just callilng them as I see em;)