Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Holden McGroin on March 13, 2004, 12:36:17 PM
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By ANTHONY BREZNICAN, AP Entertainment Writer
LOS ANGELES - George Carlin famously dissected "The Seven Words You Can't Say on Television" as a way to explore what everyone was so uptight about. Thirty-two years later the same debate is still raging, now fueled by Janet Jackson's Super Bowl flash, the suspension of Howard Stern's raunchy radio show from six stations and new House legislation that would raise a performer's indecency fine from $11,000 to $500,000.
So what does the 66-year-old Carlin think of the current hand wringing over what is indecent, profane, obscene, immoral, lewd or insulting?
"More of the same, same old bulls**t. What are we, surprised?" Carlin told The Associated Press on Friday.He blamed it on religious moralism, media commercialism and election-year politics.
"The whole f*****g problem with this g**d*** idea of obscenity and indecency, and all of these things, f*****g bad language and whatever, it's all caused by one basic thing, and that is: mother f*****g religious superstition. ... There's an idea that the f*****g human body is somehow evil and bad and there are parts of it that are especially evil and bad, and we should be ashamed.
S**t… fear, guilt and shame are built into the attitude toward sex and the body. ... It's reflected in these f*****g prohibitions and these taboos that we have."
Mix that with TV or radio, and you've got a problem, he said. "S**t, what I always remind people is, radio and television and as it happens now the mother f*****g newspapers and magazines too, are advertising media. ... When you have commercialism involved you have the kind of fear that p***y advertisers are very afraid of offending some bull***t potential customer.
They don't want to lose a sale. So they have this need to inspect and clean up and watch the f*****g content in order not to hurt their own sales. It's based on success at the cash register. "And yet, these d**ks are very inconsistent; on that Super Bowl broadcast of Janet Jackson's there was also a commercial about a 4-hour erection.
A lot of people were saying about that 'How do I explain this c***s**king bulls**t to my kids? We're a little family, we watched it together and that c*** Janet Jackson flashes her right t*t to my innocent 5 years old!' …These are convenient targets."
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He's right.
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While I was in my teens to early 30's (yeah, a wide spread about 27 years ago) I felt the need to use all the "F" and "S" words I could so I would be heard and thought of as a man.
I finally realized how ignorant and imature it made me sound so I readjusted my vocabulary. Though brought up as a Baptist that wasn't the reason for the change. I don't see how speaking of fornicating and defacating every other word adds to content or comunication in speech (or the written word either for that matter).
What's the point?
I have found though that personal "presence" seems to add much more. People have a tendency to listen and take what you say at face value with the proper "presence".
"Presence" is a lot harder in the written word though, I need to work on that one, but the proper body language will almost always give you a bit of an edge.
My two cents worth :)
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Heya Mark,
I agree w/ you for the most part. To me, people that use profanity gratuitously appear uneducated. There’s a couple of places however, we might disagree.
I’ve seen Platoon and Casino on the USA channel. They went ahead and taken the profanity out. Normally I wouldn’t object but the profanity in these two films are part of the art. In Casino, the character Nicky doesn’t care what other people think. He could care less if old ladies are offended by his language. He’s a gangster. In the theatrical release, he spits out the F word.. highlighting each syllable, it’s part of his persona. In Platoon we are taken into the world of the Viet Nam G.I. A bizarre upside down world the third rung from Hell itself. The audience is supposed to be shocked. I think by editing the filmmaker lost some of the impact he was trying to create.
An ironic sidenote the film “Gangs of New York” the character Bill Cuttler spews out a dirabe of profanity in front of the stunned mayor.. Only problem is it’s 19th and 18th century cussing.. heh.. I wonder how they plan to treat that when it comes to television.
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Lets see... :)
"There are 400,000 words in the English language and there are 7
of them you can't say on television. What a ratio that is.
399,993 to 7. They must really be bad. They'd have to be outrageous
to be seperated from a group that large. All of you over here,you 7,
Bad Words. That's what they told us they were, remember?
"That's a bad word!" No bad words, bad thoughts, bad intentions,
and words. You know the 7, don't you, that you can't say on television?
"****, Piss, ****, ****, noodlesucker, Mother****er, and Tits"
Those are the heavy seven. Those are the ones that'll infect your soul,
curve your spine, and keep the country from winning the war.
"****, Piss, ****, ****, noodlesucker, Mother****er, and Tits"
Wow! ..."
George Carlin
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Lets see... :)
"There are 400,000 words in the English language and there are 7
of them you can't say on television. What a ratio that is.
399,993 to 7. They must really be bad. They'd have to be outrageous
to be seperated from a group that large. All of you over here,you 7,
Bad Words. That's what they told us they were, remember?
"That's a bad word!" No bad words, bad thoughts, bad intentions,
and words. You know the 7, don't you, that you can't say on television?
"****, Piss, ****, ****, noodlesucker, Mother****er, and Tits"
Those are the heavy seven. Those are the ones that'll infect your soul,
curve your spine, and keep the country from winning the war.
"****, Piss, ****, ****, noodlesucker, Mother****er, and Tits"
Wow! ..."
George Carlin
What's strange is that George Carlin has 399,993 words he can use to be funny, But he is helpless without those seven.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
"****, Piss, ****, ****, noodlesucker, Mother****er, and Tits"
Wow! ..."
- George Carlin
Apparently only 4 of 7 are filtered here. :lol
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4.5
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Sad really.
I used to love to watch Red Skelton. His show was absolutely hilarious. He could create more comedy without ANY words than Carlin could using his entire vocabulary. Skelton never had to use profanity to be funy. He never needed that crutch that so many latter day commedians need.
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skeleton is a different kind of comedy. people use that kind of comedy today. In church talent shows.
If you dont like what you see on tv. Turn it off.
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Apples and oranges...
Skelton was not a topical comic.
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along with school and sports, kids should be taught how to swear too.
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Carlins a P***Y
I remember a 10 minute Oration I gave on squad channel that wouldve had him covering his ears in shame. Touching such subjects as Reggies Mitchells mothers morals to the use of Phalanxs in anceint combat.
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The term "ten minute oration" itself is suspect. :eek:
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I for the life of me can't work out this one:
g**d*** ??
Tronsky
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Oh yea a personal story about George Carlin...
I saw one of his shows at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, and part of his routine was a bit where he said something like "I just love it when a whole bunch of ****ing people die!" Anyway it was pretty funny the way he said it at the time, September 9, 2001....
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Originally posted by -tronski-
I for the life of me can't work out this one:
g**d*** ??
Tronsky
It's supposed to be whoopee.
I have no idea as to why the god part was censored out.
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Originally posted by irritant
It's supposed to be whoopee.
I have no idea as to why the god part was censored out.
ahhh...well I was once muted in the MA for saying whoopeeed Niki so I do understand how that is the equivilant of the other F words :rolleyes:
Tronsky
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
If you dont like what you see on tv. Turn it off.
That's a big part of the problem. Most people would rather whine and complain until something is done their way instead of just changing the channel or turning it off.
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Froggy,
You have nothing to say to me. Feel free to put me on your ignore list until you grow up. I figure that will be a long time.
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It's really pathetic that a 66 year old comic still thinks it's cute to use profane language that most sensible adults gave up after they left high school and entered the real world.
Personally, I'm not the least bit concerned with the type of language you use when hob-nobbing with your friends, in private. If you're still amused by body-fluid jokes then have at it. But no one should ever think they have a right to use such vile language in public in front of strangers. It should tick you off that some idiot spouts this garbage in a shopping mall in front of your wife or young children. Anyone who does it should be smacked in the mouth.
Oh, and by the way, this vulgar behavior is becoming so pervasive that it is almost impossible to watch the programming on any channel without encountering it. Some agency MUST exercise a measure of control over it, because clearly the major networks will not. In fact, they're growing steadily worse with each passing season.
Red Skelton's slap-stick comedy may have been different from Carlin's stand up comedy routine, but that doesn't mean that profanity is necessary for Carlin's success. Bob Hope did stand-up comedy for 80 years and didn't have to use it.
Shuckins
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Originally posted by jigsaw
That's a big part of the problem. Most people would rather whine and complain until something is done their way instead of just changing the channel or turning it off. [/QUOTE
Yep, the lowest common denominator rules. Welcome to the nanny state.
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I find this whole thing a pile of crap.
There's nothing wrong with a show like Howard Stern's show. You go into it fully knowing what is going to happen.
However, something like the Janet Jackson incident is not acceptible. Especially when it's not what was supposed to be happening.
And that's where the line should be drawn.
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I quote Louis Black on this 1: In New York ***** isn't even a word anymore, its a comma.
I love'm
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Of course, the point that they're just 7 harmless words that offend you or are in any way special only if you really want them to, seems to fly over the heads of some.
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Originally posted by SOB
Of course, the point that they're just 7 harmless words that offend you or are in any way special only if you really want them to, seems to fly over the heads of some.
Yep. Stop making such a big deal about these words, and they will lose their allure, and people will stop going out of their way to say them.
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Well ... I think it has something to do with protecting minors. Especially a parent's desire to protect their offspring while they're vulnerable. But ... of course ... pandora's box was opened (now that is a metaphor open to lewd interpretation) a long time ago so we should all just give up, right? After all ... there's other kids at school with them that get a regular diet of these loving words expressed between their parents or parent and step-parent or parent and current live-in lover all the time and they take it to school with them and spread the verbal love themselves already. Right? It's all pretty much a futile effort. Right? :D
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They're only words.....deemed by the Social Hierarchy as being unacceptable.
Who put the Social Hierarchy in charge?
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Weird. I read this same story a few hours ago online. Did my news service censor the copy I read or did H. McGroin edit the same story for shock value?
George Carlin Responds to Indecency Uproar
By ANTHONY BREZNICAN, AP
LOS ANGELES (March 12) - George Carlin famously dissected "The Seven Words You Can't Say on Television" as a way to explore what everyone was so uptight about.
Thirty-two years later the same debate is still raging, now fueled by Janet Jackson's Super Bowl flash, the suspension of Howard Stern's raunchy radio show from six stations and new House legislation that would raise a performer's indecency fine from $11,000 to $500,000.
So what does the 66-year-old Carlin think of the current handwringing over what is indecent, profane, obscene, immoral, lewd or insulting?
"More of the same, more of the same. What are we, surprised?" Carlin told The Associated Press on Friday
He blamed it on religious moralism, media commercialism and election-year politics.
"The whole problem with this idea of obscenity and indecency, and all of these things - bad language and whatever - it's all caused by one basic thing, and that is: religious superstition. There's an idea that the human body is somehow evil and bad and there are parts of it that are especially evil and bad, and we should be ashamed. Fear, guilt and shame are built into the attitude toward sex and the body. ... It's reflected in these prohibitions and these taboos that we have."
Mix that with TV or radio, and you've got a problem, he said.
"What I always remind people is, radio and television and - as it happens - newspapers and magazines too, are advertising media. ... When you have commercialism involved you have the kind of fear that advertisers are very afraid of offending some potential customer. They don't want to lose a sale. So they have this need to inspect and clean up and watch the content in order not to hurt their own sales. It's based on success at the cash register.
"And yet, they're very inconsistent- on that Super Bowl broadcast of Janet Jackson's there was also a commercial about a 4-hour erection. A lot of people were saying about Janet Jackson, 'How do I explain to my kids? We're a little family, we watched it together ...' And, well, what did you say about the other thing? These are convenient targets."
He also thinks President Bush is trying to placate right-wing voters.
The U.S. Air Force veteran compared the recent tension with memories of his military experience.
"These bursts of interest and decency are just like when you're in the Air Force, Army and Marines, whatever - the discipline in your unit may get a little lax, people live with it, it's fine for months at a time then some colonel notices it and suddenly they crack down ... enforcing all the minor rules and regulations. Then what happens after these bursts of bothering people, that wears off and we get back to normal, relaxed discipline, but things still get done.
"Society can be counted on to let this fade."
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You can say anthing you want in rated movies and cable TV and now... satalite radio.
I suppose those offended could simply never own a radio or TV but it would seem polite that if you are out to offend people that they be given a warning.
I think the problem is that the radio and tv waves that are free can be tuned into by anyone no matter how young or unsuspecting.
If you wish to be "current" and "topical" it would seem that you could go to one of the pay to play medias where everyone was on the same page.
I was against censoring in the case of say lenny bruce who was a nightclub performer for example. You knew what to expect when you walked in.
Most of us would not say a lot of the 7 words in front of our mothers or freinds mothers or small children now would we?
lazs
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Yep. Stop making such a big deal about these words, and they will lose their allure, and people will stop going out of their way to say them.
Funked,
I disagree with your premise. I think that what you propose has happened but with the opposite result. Since these words now lack the "impact" they had in the past they are now becoming more "mainstream" not less. I still feel they are the indicator of a lack of education and certainly not the sign of maturity.
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I disagree with censorship....one doesn't have to read, listen or watch. Change channels....read something else.
Instruct your children on what is acceptable to you.
And....let them growup and learn....they'll decide what is proper and correct.
Just what we need.....other people making decisions for us.
I do hope one is intelligent enough to make the appropriate choices.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I find this whole thing a pile of crap.
There's nothing wrong with a show like Howard Stern's show. You go into it fully knowing what is going to happen.
However, something like the Janet Jackson incident is not acceptible. Especially when it's not what was supposed to be happening.
And that's where the line should be drawn.
You hit the nail square on the head fella, it was never an issue regarding the material content, it was the method of delivery.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Most of us would not say a lot of the 7 words in front of our mothers or freinds mothers or small children now would we?
lazs
But that's all Carlin is. A 60~ish guy with a mouth like a 20-something. Yes, he's funny and for him and his "act", it works. For him to think the sky is falling because the public at large has had enough is pretty silly.
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Originally posted by Hajo
I disagree with censorship....one doesn't have to read, listen or watch. Change channels....read something else.
Instruct your children on what is acceptable to you.
And....let them growup and learn....they'll decide what is proper and correct.
Just what we need.....other people making decisions for us.
I do hope one is intelligent enough to make the appropriate choices.
Amazing! My own squady said exactly what I was about to say!
If anyone thinks that you are keeping your kids away from these words, your wrong. Those words are available for digestion in schools as well. It was when I went to school (all 12 of them) and it wasn't changed.
Hiding issues and situations from your kids doesn't solve the problem (IMO of course). It just makes kids grow into adults that still don't know how to handle those issues. They will have to address them in the future anyways. Wouldn't you rather be part of their education on how to handle these things things instead of trying to bury thier heads in the sand until they are on thier own by saying "Well... just don't say that because I said so"? Educating them in why they are not to be used is a far more effective effort and let the choice be thiers.... it will be anyways....
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
He's right.
So why were so many liberals offended by Bush's WTC political ad?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
So why were so many liberals offended by Bush's WTC political ad?
Wow, that was a ****ing stretch.
Maverick is afraid of words. His fear indicates to him the user of those scary words are his mental inferiors.
He would like you all to be afraid with him and pretend you are smarter than those foul mouthed bastards.
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Originally posted by Furious
Wow, that was a ****ing stretch.
I understand completely that you fail to see the hipocrasy and cannot answer the question.
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Yep, it's all about them damned dirty liberals.
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You're probably right, SOB. :D :aok
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Is there nothing left to blame on the Libs... Come on people! Use your imagination!
Global Warming
Global Freezing
Teenage pregnancy
Gay marriage
Lesbians in bikinis - (nevermind we'll happily take credit for this one)
Cussing
Purse snatching
..... etc.
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im a left wing liberal to your way of thinking.
i wasent offended, found i interesting hope they "out" the democrats if they do the same thing. its an open display of how crappy the system has become.
but i wasent offended at all.
the knee jerk faaaaar left i guess would grab it but most of them are at sea with greenpeace anyway.
**** um.
ohh yea cursing is bad dont curse. but i will if i want and all i repeat all censorship is bad no one was hurt by that tity or any other, we got real **** to worry about.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I find this whole thing a pile of crap.
there's nothing wrong with a show like Howard Stern's show. You go into it fully knowing what is going to happen.
And that's where the line should be drawn.
Funny, Stern was towing the conservative line n politics all along, while he hid behind free speech legislation liberals fought for, now he's being run out on a rail by those same conservatives, and looking for support from the liberals.
How cruelly ironic! But it's also BS. I saw CNN last night and it was dead Iraqi galore, and seeing Betruzzi break someones neck, repeatedly, on national television, is no biggie. But show a womans breast, or talk about anal sex...OH MYY HOW IMMORAL!
Gimme JJ's nippled boob over some crushed or bullet riddled Iraqi antyime...the VHS is recording...
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Gimme JJ's nippled boob over some crushed or bullet riddled Iraqi antyime...the VHS is recording...
that's a good question... what is farther down the indecency list? A bare boob or a war torn body?
Why does the media feel that one is acceptable and one isn't? Why are we numb to seeing a dead body (and our kids seeing it) but get outraged when they see a bare boob? Sure, JJ had no right to do that .... and the media had no choice in it airing because it was live... but.... they DO make a choice to show death and violence to us and our kids everyday.... and nobody screams to have CNN and Headline news taken off the air.
Is it because death and war is a part of life and kids should see it and get use to it??? rhetorical....
To tell you the truth... I think it should be the other way around if it has to be one or the other.... maybe it's just me but I find violence more offensive than nudity....
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A few years ago ........
News broke into programming on all local stations. A guy had stopped his pickup on a freeway overpass, and was threatening to jump etc. and traffic was stopped.
Helicopters circled and broadcast everything as the man got in and out of his truck... gesturing wildly. Then he jumps into the cab and you see flames shoot up. The cameras never left the guy.
He changes his mind and jumps out of the truck. His shirt was on fire so he rips off his shirt and pants.... the cameras stay on.
Then he runs back to the truck and grabs a rifle. He walks over to the front of the truck sits down and puts the gun in his mouth....Now you can hear the helicopter pilot saying.. "Pull back!" to the cameraman. Too late. Bang.
Now this preempted whatever happened to be on the TV at the time. Including cartoons on Fox. It was 3:30pm, kids just home from school.
I'd rather they see Janet's nipple ring too.
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Originally posted by Furious
Wow, that was a ****ing stretch.
Maverick is afraid of words. His fear indicates to him the user of those scary words are his mental inferiors.
He would like you all to be afraid with him and pretend you are smarter than those foul mouthed bastards.
Mind explaining this?? Preferably when you are sober.
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Originally posted by VAQ
Weird. I read this same story a few hours ago online. Did my news service censor the copy I read or did H. McGroin edit the same story for shock value?
Not shock value, I just thought it was funnier.:)
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Originally posted by Maverick
Mind explaining this?? Preferably when you are sober.
I though he explained things pretty well the first time.
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Well, George Carlin is no idiot. Somehow it's funny when he says something, even cussing. He is a rugged individualist.
Maverick, I think Furious was refering to Bush and not you.:)
Les
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These people (http://www.channel4.com/ads/index1.html) obviously never got past the third grade. They must be real immature too! 'Course, I don't know them, but I'm pretty sure of it anyhow.