Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Fangio on May 28, 2001, 10:01:00 PM
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I have been flying AH a little, while remaining a dedicated WB flyer. I freely admit (and post on AGW) that to me AH simply blows WB2.77 and WB3 (in its current beta state) away. AH is light years ahead in tons of critical details: engine, propeller graphic, tracers, hit sprites (dirt, water and API rounds exploding.. VERY cool) and the view system. I also think the AH FM is way ahead... particularly the relative plane performance. The Dora in WB is a pig... in AH she has all of her historical sweetness intact.
The problem is that I could care less about flying for a fantasy country and fighting against like aircraft. I am into historical matchups. Luftwaffe vs RAF / USAAF. The AH Open arena 3 sided free for all totally turns me off, and I know that is a key factor for tons of current WB flyers. It also seems that an RPS based WWII arena in AH simply is not possible because of the limited planeset. Also, in WB all the flying I do is pretty much just practice for the S3 events. The S3's are simply the most immersive, realistic, gut wrenching, nail biting online flying I have ever experienced. The level of organization and competitivness is just amazing. AH does not offer this.
So I am stuck. I want to fly the best sim, but the best dont offer the kind of flying I like to do.
My question: Does AH ever plan on offering a full RPS WWII Arena? Does AH ever plan on putting together S3 type events? (I know about the check 6 events... but they are more comperable to the SL's in WB. The S3 events are in another league...)
The current AH, despite is clear superiority as a sim, cannot entice my squad from WB due to these reasons. ARe there any plans for the AH focus to evolve, change or grow in this direction? I would seem to me that from a marketing perspective, AH would want to bring on board as many WB pilots as possible but not putting together a product offering aimed at that target market makes me question the AH marketing goal?
Fang
JG26
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Some good points Fang, and some bad ones too.
Much of which is expected. WB2 engine is old, AH1 engine is much newer, WBIII engine state of the art. It`s called technology progress.
FM`s are very close, and in WBIII practicly identical. How the AH FM is "way ahead" is new to me. Maybe you could share with us this "new info" you have on the FM`s.
There is the "feel factor" & "IMO factor"
Big difference between describing what you like, and what is actually modeled.
I will be the first to give each sim credit where deserved. AH has some very nice features, and many things over WB currently, but WB has it`s things over AH as well.
Saying AH blows away WBIII (even in it`s current state) is not an accurate statement. There are soooo many things in WBIII that AH can`t even get close to. And never will with it`s current engine.
As far as current comparisons with WB 2.77:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/009821.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/009821.html)
WB & AH / Pros & Cons
Both good, both have their warts, and both offer different things..... just depends on what your looking for.
It would seem that AH currently has what`s more important to you.
[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 05-29-2001).]
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Heres a man that doesnt burn bridges (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Fang sounds like the S3s are similar to the Hostile Shores and Afrika Korps scenarios that have been held in AH.
They're still few and far between for my liking, but they are worth hanging round for.
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OK!
Anyone mind if I add my two cen_________
[This message has been edited by Cod Almighty and account vaporised by HTC (edited 05-28-2001).]
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Fang, its just a matter of time before we have more options in AH...for now, we have to wait until the planesets fill out.
Meanwhile, we have Snap Shots, Check Six events with historical terrain coming (some like Check Six have already used Med terrain and Norway terrain) as well as our big scenarios, we just finished a 4-week event called Hostile Shores.
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Originally posted by Fangio:
Does AH ever plan on putting together S3 type events? (I know about the check 6 events... but they are more comperable to the SL's in WB. The S3 events are in another league...)
I'm already working on it.
Hopefully in not so far away future.
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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fang... most of the guys who left WB for here left because of the dreary "axis vs allied" planeset and all the same/same boredom of such a set. I have no interest in pretending that I am a WWII pilot or pretending that I am in some way "recreating" history. No one flew finger fours or at 20+ K in WB and there were no historic fights that I ever seen anyway. Maybe a microcosm where some planes in WWII had worked their way down and lost their squad/wingman but.... Allied vs axis is a huge price to pay for the chance that you may in some way "relive" WWII in some small way on rare occassions.
I can however see why LW guys want "historic" planesets as their planes do so poorly against a set with any variety.
lazs
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What Lazs said !!
In fact the two things I hate MOST about WB's currenty is the RPS and Axis vs Allied Arena.
I hope that AH does not go down that path.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Skybax, theres lots of different aspects in engines. WB3:s graphic engine is well ahead the AH, but so are its system requirements. The FM is whole different system and even if WB3 has something special in their FM (which i dont believe), it doesent mean, that its currently in use or accurate.
I cant see, how the MOL could make accurate FM to their every plane from the huge planeset. And how they could update the FM:s in lots of planes as the bugs are reported?
The dora being a flying pig sound like that theyre just copy&pasted the earlier 190 FM:s to Dora with just minor changes like engine HP and stuff like that, which can be found from books.
The HTC has incredible customer support and it really keeps up with the community. Every whine and every notice seems to count. We got bucketloads of minor bugfixes/changes just to the interface so annoying donts and cants dont be there forever. Thats something that will keep my 30$ for HTC, as i can expect, that every update brings fresh aspects for this game.
MOL reputation is bad and i dont trust a company, that has bad reputation, simple as that.
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Originally posted by Tuomio:
The HTC has incredible customer support and it really keeps up with the community. Every whine and every notice seems to count. We got bucketloads of minor bugfixes/changes just to the interface so annoying donts and cants dont be there forever. Thats something that will keep my 30$ for HTC, as i can expect, that every update brings fresh aspects for this game.
MOL reputation is bad and i dont trust a company, that has bad reputation, simple as that.
Clear winner is HTC in this dept. This last version had about 90% of its code that appeared in the BBS as 'Customer requests'.
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Actually, no offense to the afrika korps eventts etc..but I do not think they are in the same league as the S3s....S3s are organized by players for players, with SET squads who are invited into them, so its squad based really, without ANY walk-ons, so its totally organized and reliant on squads to balance and to fly their planes. so you get feirce competition and fights with people who KNOW that plane, thats a major difference between community events and S3s. But I totally agree, I fly WBs and AH just is awesome, planeset is coming a long nicely so I won't comment on that( I mean WBs has been around longer for more planes, does need some earlier planes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif). But to me and many other players in both games, AH flight model seems a lot more "realistic" it just has that correct feel, even if it does seem easier to fly then Warbirds. Oh well..I too hope that part of AH moves towards a more historic aspect but doesn't lose that Main Arena part.
Pup out
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I tried WBIII beta...
looks pretty but the same old FM and gunnery ...
tiring.
Promises are one thing....
Deliver the goods and then maybe I'll be impressed.
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Fang,
HT has said that he have no interest in making an Axis vs Allies arena.
Regards.
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You guys do know that the United States Air Force Academy is using Aces High as a training tool for basic ACM and BFM for their students right? That says alot about the quality of this flight sim!
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Skybax: my comments relative to FM are IMHO. I think AH "feels" better and clearly the relative plane performance is closer to the mark.
If HT has said that AH will never have an allies vs axis arena then that pretty much answers my question. I think this sucks. Why would AH not offer both arenas.... and go after the whole market rather than leaving a large chunk of it to another company.
Perhaps WB3 when it is fully fleshed out will catch up to AH. I hope so. As to the comments about how WB3 is way ahead of AH in terrain graphics ect.... i dont argue the point. BUT, the WB3 graphics advantage is sort of like HDTV vs DVD. Sure HDTV is better but its also very limited and the improvement is not so large as to glaring.
WE shall see. If AH offers S3 like events I will surely give it a try.
Fang
JG26
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Originally posted by Pup:
Actually, no offense to the afrika korps eventts etc..but I do not think they are in the same league as the S3s....S3s are organized by players for players, with SET squads who are invited into them, so its squad based really, without ANY walk-ons, so its totally organized and reliant on squads to balance and to fly their planes. so you get feirce competition and fights with people who KNOW that plane, thats a major difference between community events and S3s. But I totally agree, I fly WBs and AH just is awesome, planeset is coming a long nicely so I won't comment on that( I mean WBs has been around longer for more planes, does need some earlier planes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif). But to me and many other players in both games, AH flight model seems a lot more "realistic" it just has that correct feel, even if it does seem easier to fly then Warbirds. Oh well..I too hope that part of AH moves towards a more historic aspect but doesn't lose that Main Arena part.
Pup out
Pup, I have flown in 3-4 S3s and both the big AH scenarios. They are definitely in the same league. My scenario squad was staffed primarily by my MA squad, and im sure many of the other scenario oriented squads were the same. The number of great sticks on both sides was amazing. Every frame saw savage battles with at least 60% of both air forces getting destroyed. That doesnt happen with a bunch of guys putzing around trying to figure out what their plane can do. And given the icons and view system in AH i would wager that surprise bounces were very rare. I would say the guys here KNOW there planes too.
About the only difference i see is that AH scenarios seem geared a little more toward action and WB's more toward historic recreations.
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Maniac, it is sad that people are swayed to believe not what is factual, but what it is they hear spouted the most. So be it, I crown you master of the "are too/am not" school of propaganda. Feel better?
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Eh?
Pyro, I was as confused as you might be by this statement by HT...
Djust before (or djust after) AH went pay to play i asked the very same question to HT, and then he was all for it, his answer was :
"Yes if there is an big enough player base to support it"
And we all rejoiced...
An couple months ago i asked the same question to him in the arenas and he answered with :
I am not interested in an arena where the two sides dont have the same "prerequisites" (i cant remember the english word he used but its förutsättning in swedish hehe). I.E he wants both teams (all teams) to have the same ability to fly all AC´s
If i did not hear (read) this from the man himself then Pyro i assure you i wouldnt be posting about it...
Now i feel better (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 05-30-2001).]
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Although I think AH has a FM far superior of WB's - and I even like the graphics over WB3 I still have to say that AH lacks something the WB community has.
First thing that comes to mind is respect.
Secondly, I was playing at WB free weekend after a long absense and I have to say I had the most fun I've had in a long time with flight sims.. Historic arena, reduced icon settings and axis-allies combat was awesome with 280+ players online!
And I couldn't help noticing the numbers: game was FREE so people from all over came to try it. Yet the historic arena: 280 players vs main arena 90 players.. Not much of a contest.
IMO HT will do a huge mistake if he skips the historic arena. At least he will leave me disappointed.
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Reason i came here from WB (which i have played for years) is because of the W.W.II arena, no more is the old main arena populated. W.W.II arenas are great for one off events now and again, AH has these, i played one not long ago with my squad, it was great, we were flying a squad of lancs and kept coming up against 109's and the like, but instead of it being the usual free for all it was well planned and therefore more realistic. Great as a special event, cr*p for the main arena.
Wb's got really boring and uneventful when it went into W.W.II only, got fed up flying against solely 109's a6m's and the occasional 190's. All 109 pilots played the 'stay real high and swoop' game and a squad of a6m pilots could have your 6 covered in no time with their unbeatable turning circle.
I know wwiionline will be totaly wwii based vehickle set, but its not the same type of game. WB's and AH's is a dogfighting sim, wwiionline will be a W.W.II sim, plus it will have ships tanks trucks men and anything else to beef up the options of attack.
2 cents (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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WWII Arena, no thanks.
I get my "historic" fix on the weekends when I have 2 or 3 hours to fly a snapshot or check6 event. Those are historic recreations, not an arena slapped together pitting supposed "historic matchups" against one another without any real premise other than to dogfight.
You know what the difference between an MA and a WWII Arena is? Less planes to choose from and learn to fight against in the WWII Arena.
-SW
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IT is obvious that many players do not want / hate the idea of a WWII arena.... and that many players ONLY want to fly in a historical based arena. Everyone gets real emotional about it too.
I also understand the herd mentality of online gaming and how difficult it is to get two arenas "busy" at the same time.
I do think AH has a leg up on this due to the mission planner. It could make HA flying much better.
PYRO: What did your post mean? Does it mean that a Historical Arena is coming? Is not coming? Will never come? Whats the story? Lots of HA nuts like me want to know!
I'm not bashing AH or WB.... I just know the kind of flying I like and would like to be able to do it in both sims. I maintain accounts in both.... AH gets my $$$ even though I only fly online in AH VERY rarely. I spend 90% of my time in WB, 9% in a closed beta and 1% on "other" including AH.
Anyone in AH who has never flown in an S3.... hook up with someone in a squad who does them and try to fly as a guest. Its is hands down the closest to the "real thing" as I think you can get on a PC.
Fang
Jg26
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I have 3 films of a Snapshot I participated in. Tank busting or flying cover for tanks. Germans vs Russians.
I have 1 film of the German perspective and 2 films of the Russian perspective. Both from the flying perspective.
Those 3 films and that 10 hours of flying was well worth 30$ for me.
-SW
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Either way I think Aces High is heading in the right direction.
For warbirds it is so unfortunate that iEN is choking them !
I just hope they don't choke them to death and that WB3 gets a shot !
If this was in any way a pull for a Historical Arena in any nature marke me up as:yes plz! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
<S>
Li`l Snorkey
56th FG "Zemke's Wolfpack"
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I just have to step in and post something totally offtopic.
Fangio says:
i dont argue the point. BUT, the WB3 graphics advantage is sort of like HDTV vs DVD. Sure HDTV is better but its also very limited and the improvement is not so large as to glaring.
Have you ever seen a hdtv broadcast? Watching dvds on hdtv and watching an actual hdtv broadcast is an entirely different experience.
Ok, thats all I wanted to say. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Opinions on the three dominant flight sims are well.......just that opinions. I flew air warrior for about 7 years, tried warbirds, was nice, but I really didn't like the "feel". While reading in a computer gaming magazine I came across an article about Aces High, decided to try it, and here I am having said "asta la bye bye " to Air Warrior. I left many good friends in Air Warrior.
As far as reality goes.....plus and minuses on both sides can be given. Scenarios are a great way to try and recapture the reality.
However if one is using AH as a way to have fun, the MA is where to do it!
Remember, EA and Kesmai let AW die a slow agonizing death, and I don't think WB would have upgraded but for the emergence of AH to the on-line flight sim community.
Being that I have competed in all three of the flight sims, to me AH is the clear cut winner hands down, and I am definately impartial. I can fly AW cheaper and WB also but I prefer to pay the price to what in my meager mind appears to be the best of the three, AH. the developers keep the community on the edge waiting to see what the next update will bring.....does AW and WB do the same? Nope......I'll take AH, as a matter of fact, I already have <G>
Again, this is just an opinion, but it's mine for whatever it may be worth, and to me only my opinion counts <G> I put up the money. =)
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Maniac, I have no idea what you're talking about or the context of what it is you describe. I do know that despite any statements made to the contrary on a number of issues, certain people repeat misinformation ad infinitum until it can get accepted by some people as true. I'm not going to spend my time trying to refute every troll out there. Another classic example of this is the "HTC is not going to model early-war planes." It's transparent to start with and worn thin even more.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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"Maniac, it is sad that people are swayed to believe not what is factual, but what it is they hear spouted the most. So be it, I crown you master of the "are too/am not" school of propaganda. Feel better?"
We must have missunderstod each other Pyro.
My post answereing Fangios question if AH will ever have an HA is based on an statement from Hitech...
I tought your reply to me was indicating that i had no idea what i was talking about.
All i was saying is that Hitech has said in the arenas that he has no interest in it...
Belive me i will be really happy if he has changed his mind again...
Imho an HA in AH has double the chance of success then the WB one.
Regards.
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First of all, the HA I played last weekend was US/GB vs GE planes, no zekes (or god forbid, n1ks) flying around.
Secondly, I really don't see what's the compelling urge to fight chog vs chog or pony vs pony fights.. Even if you must, there's always the dueling arena. Even in HA you can kill pony etc. if you must, just fly axis! If you don't like axis planes, at least you can learn how they fly and fight them better. I for one hate axis fm, but still fly them now and then.
But the best part of the historic arena IMO was a) reduced icon settings b) organized buff strikes with fighter cover c) attacking a 40-buff formation co-ordinated by ground radar operator (whoever had the chance to be at dar after being shot down..)
I'd like to see when that kind of stuff happens at MA.
Reduced icon settings gave a really refreshing 'on yer toes' feeling because it forces you to maintain 100% SA at all times.
And also it enabled to catch ppl off guard, low 6 approach surprise was never so easy! In Aces High it's very hard to surprise anyone from low 6 because the view system enables you to look almost 360 degrees around. Together with highly visible icons, the element of surprise is very low.
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Pyro? Maniac? I am now confused? IS AH GOING TO HAVE AN HISTORICAL ARENA.... OR IS IT NOT?
Seems a pretty simple question
Fang
JG26
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Ahh sorry. There's an interview I did over on SimHq from a few weeks ago. One of the questions covers this. Basically, it's going to require 2 things to be viable as a full time arena - people and planes.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations