Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Boroda on March 14, 2004, 02:04:20 PM
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I didn't watch TV today, but how can anyone doubt our whole-nationally-electred president was elected again?...
We have a huge fire now in a heart of Moscow: a Riding-hall 100m from Kremlin wall is burning severely, at least 2000 square meters on fire.
One friend told me it's shown on Euronews as "no comment", footage from Rossiya hotel, it's on another side of Kremlin and looks like Kremlin itself burns. Other friend waits for me down at the street, we are going to watch the disaster closer.
All I can say is it's a nice start.
I didn't go vote. I hope the electoral lists will not be used later to find "politicaly unreliable" people. Maybe I am paranoid, and I hope so, so far we have no threats to personal freedom we had since early-90s, but I have to always prepare for worse.
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Crazy
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From 'The Simpsons":
(at UN Meeting)
US GUY: We apologize to Russia.
Russian GUY: The USSR thanks you.
US GUY: USSR? I thought you guys were Russia now?
Russian GUY: That's what we wanted you to think! (hits a button, the sign that says Russia turns over to say USSR. Parade floats in Red Square turn into tanks ala May Day parades, Lenin in public display case, breaks out and lurches through crowds of tourists groaning "must...crush...capitalism..."
Humor aside, Boroda, it sounds like a return to the old ways. I wish you and your countrymen success in finding prosperity without hard line communism (and the costs associated with it) in the equation.
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We heard on the news that terrorists have promised some action after the election if Putin wins.
Hope things stays calm on your end Boroda and keep us informed on events and that fire.
Have a quiet sunday Boroda :)
Имейте тихое воскресенье Boroda ;)
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Originally posted by Nilsen10
We heard on the news that terrorists have promised some action after the election if Putin wins.
Hope things stays calm on your end Boroda and keep us informed on events and that fire.
Have a quiet sunday Boroda :)
Maybe they should be like Spanish voters and give in to the terrorists! :(
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I should really get my car waxed
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Maybe they should be like Spanish voters and give in to the terrorists! :(
That's too low to even comment on, Grun.
Daniel
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very poor taste grun
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Not your finest moment, Grun.
Ravs
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Isn't that exactly what they did? News coverage says that the train attacks had a big effect on the election, and exit interviews with the voters were very telling. Many of them said things along the lines of "I wasn't even going to vote, but because of the bombing, I have voted against the government that got us into Iraq."
Here is an in-depth article that cover that:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&e=1&u=/ap/20040314/ap_on_re_eu/spain_elections
But on election day voters expressed anger with the government, accusing it of provoking the Madrid attacks by supporting the U.S.-led war in Iraq, which most Spaniards opposed.
As you see, the voters feel the attack was 'provoked', as in 'deserved' because of Spain's stance on terrorism.
So Grunherz is technically correct. The spanish voters have essentially given in to the terrorists by voting with ballots along the same direction as the terrorists 'voted' with bombs.
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oh very good, Chair. But I thought Grunz's delivery and timing was poor.
He'll never make a comic.
Ravs
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Originally posted by Chairboy
So Grunherz is technically correct. The spanish voters have essentially given in to the terrorists by voting with ballots along the same direction as the terrorists 'voted' with bombs.
So if GWB is not re-elected this year The American people will have sided with the terrorists?
Sounds like a good Campaign Quote..
Vote Bush, Or your a terrorist :rolleyes:
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Had we voted 2 days after 9-11, would we have voted GWB out of office?
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Maybe I am paranoid,
when they really are out to get you, then paranoid is just good thinking.
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Originally posted by Lizking
Had we voted 2 days after 9-11, would we have voted GWB out of office?
The world will never know.
If the President had tried to pin the blame on some Terrorist organization within the US and undeniably got caught, then probably.
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Wow, Nefarious, what are you, Inspector Clousueax?
Last I heard no one knew who did Madrid.
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Originally posted by Lizking
Wow, Nefarious, what are you, Inspector Clousueax?
Last I heard no one knew who did Madrid.
Ok let's see, ETA denies any involvement, 5 detainees which are from Morocco and India, 2 of which had been under surveillance for their links to Al Qaeda...
Yes. It absolutely looks like a terrorist act from ETA. Everything points to that conclusion. Or that's what the ex-government wanted us to believe.
Daniel
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I do not understand your logic. I thought they voted the party out for supporting the war in Iraq?
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From what I saw on the news today:
1) A recent poll a a few days before the bombing showed current party was set for an easy victory.
2) Now we see an enormous swing towards a lefty wing pacifist oppsition party, and they win the elections with promises of withdrawing from war on terror.
I wasnt trying to be funny, its not funny, its sad. It will only encourage more of this type of bombing if it has such clear benefical consequences to the terrorists. So if it was al qaeda that did this you are validating their efforts of killing 200 innocent people, whether you like it or not.... Thats very sad, very, very sad... Is that the way to honor the dead, by giving into the wishes of their murderers?
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Bush invaded iraq. One of the goals of osama. He hoped that we would, so that we would turn it into a holywar and polarize the islamic world against us. Also it bogs us down and limits our resources in tracking terrorists outside of iraq.
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as Grun stated, the score reads:
Terrorists 1
Spain 0
if Iraq war has nothing to do with terrorists why was such a correlation made by the spanish voters?
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Originally posted by Eagler
as Grun stated, the score reads:
Terrorists 1
Spain 0
I think your score is a bit out of date. Here is current running score.
Terrorists: 200 +1400
Spain: 0
:(
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Originally posted by Boroda
I didn't watch TV today, but how can anyone doubt our whole-nationally-electred president was elected again?...
We have a huge fire now in a heart of Moscow: a Riding-hall 100m from Kremlin wall is burning severely, at least 2000 square meters on fire.
One friend told me it's shown on Euronews as "no comment", footage from Rossiya hotel, it's on another side of Kremlin and looks like Kremlin itself burns. Other friend waits for me down at the street, we are going to watch the disaster closer.
All I can say is it's a nice start.
I didn't go vote. I hope the electoral lists will not be used later to find "politicaly unreliable" people. Maybe I am paranoid, and I hope so, so far we have no threats to personal freedom we had since early-90s, but I have to always prepare for worse.
The Fire was major news on FOX here in the US.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
Bush invaded iraq. One of the goals of osama. He hoped that we would, so that we would turn it into a holywar and polarize the islamic world against us. Also it bogs us down and limits our resources in tracking terrorists outside of iraq.
this is a joke.
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damn, really hate to say this. but Grun is right. from the info we have now it looks like the people completely buckled, and gave the victory to the terrorists.
it may be harsh, and not a very flattering assesment of people who are suffering right now, but it seems an acurate one.
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Originally posted by Lizking
Had we voted 2 days after 9-11, would we have voted GWB out of office?
I'm going to go ahead and say probably not. The thing in America is we are all for stopping terrorism, so another terror attack will just strenghthen our resolve. I don't think anyone in America is willing to lay down and let the terrorists run us over, even though some don't want us in Iraq I see it as two different things.
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This thread has moved abit from Borodas intentions i belive...
Bororda...your comments on last nights events in Russia and that fire you were going to inspect.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
damn, really hate to say this. but Grun is right. from the info we have now it looks like the people completely buckled, and gave the victory to the terrorists.
it may be harsh, and not a very flattering assesment of people who are suffering right now, but it seems an acurate one.
Do you remind this governement was not backed by the population pre-Iraq II ?
And it's not terrorist victory it's a democratic victory there is no reason to critic the choice of the spanish,they do what they think to be good for their country.
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Are they not saying that the fire was started by some sort of electrical fault?
Ravs
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Originally posted by straffo
Do you remind this governement was not backed by the population pre-Iraq II ?
And it's not terrorist victory it's a democratic victory there is no reason to critic the choice of the spanish,they do what they think to be good for their country.
then why the 180 after the bombs?
crazed nutbags around the world are celebrating their victories in Spain - 1st the bombs then the election
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Originally posted by Eagler
crazed nutbags around the world are celebrating their victories in Spain - 1st the bombs then the election
So you've seen news reports of people celebrating the Spain bombing?
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Originally posted by Eagler
then why the 180 after the bombs?
Please please do get some insight of Spanish politics before giving such an uninformed opinion.
IF the Popular Party had won, it wouldn't be by a large margin, and there would be a coalition of parties throwing it out of the government.
The main difference now is that the Socialist party won't have to join forces with other parties, searching for alliances with different forces depending on the bills to be voted. Many won't agree with me, but I think that's democracy at its greatest.
Oh, and for your information, the Socialist party already beat the popular party in the last city elections.
Daniel
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Originally posted by Eagler
then why the 180 after the bombs?
crazed nutbags around the world are celebrating their victories in Spain - 1st the bombs then the election
the spanish were already at 179° before the elections.
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Just ignore it cyrano and straffo :)
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Polls showed that more than 90% of spanish ppl was against the war in Iraq. Add the "ETA/Al Qaeda" mess the spanish government did during the very last days before elections.
Is it so difficult to understand what happened then?
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then we are being mis informed here - telling us the conservative gov was up for an easy re-election prior to the train bombing
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Originally posted by Eagler
then we are being mis informed here - telling us the conservative gov was up for an easy re-election prior to the train bombing
Watching fox news will do that to you eagler.
Most of spain was going to vote them out with or without the terrorist attacks.
Im sure you dont remember the 500k people protesting the iraq war a year ago in madrid.
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
Ok let's see, ETA denies any involvement, 5 detainees which are from Morocco and India, 2 of which had been under surveillance for their links to Al Qaeda...
Yes. It absolutely looks like a terrorist act from ETA. Everything points to that conclusion. Or that's what the ex-government wanted us to believe.
Daniel
Straight facts:
* 2003: 2 ETA members caught while left 2 backpacks with 50Kg. of Explosive in 2 trains otw Madrid - Chamartín.
* 2.003: ETA van intercepted in Cuenca (if my memory suits me well) with 500 Kg. of explosive, ready to blow.
* 2.004: ETA member says that ETA should throw 100 deaths on the table to force the Government to negotiate.
Then, the blasts. An then:
Government says, at the very first: It was ETA action. (So says Ibarreche, head of Basque government, among others). Socialists say that "We must unite and make not use of this as political ammo". I think that was the most likely hypothesis at the time being.
On finding the vans, the government tells it immediately, and says about the arabic tapes and says "It's leaving all the investigation paths open", but they favour the ETA way, which I think it's not lie or manipulation whatsoever. Especially when, at the time being, only an e-mail claimed for the responsibility. Socialists start to shout the government "liar, liar".
Aznar goes into public without making emphasis on ETA being the author.
Our Interior Minister goes into public with each bit of information, as far as I can tell allways saying that they are investigating all possible authors. Each times he appears, Socialists chant "liar, liar".
He informs immediately when 5 suspects are detained. At that moment, he admits that chances are on Al-Qaeda action. "liar, liar" again.
On Saturday, the Popular candidate denounces an illegal demonstration, in front of their address, calling them "liars" and shouting about Irak war. 5 minutes after this, Rubalcaba (Socialist) appears on TV saying that "Spain deserves a Government that do not lie"
¿Where the government manipulate? ¿Where did they lie?
I just can't see it. Very much on the other side, If I was to denounce manipulation, the charge would be on Socialists and Communists.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
Watching fox news will do that to you eagler.
Most of spain was going to vote them out with or without the terrorist attacks.
Im sure you dont remember the 500k people protesting the iraq war a year ago in madrid.
I don't know what is the news channel you see, but you are equally (at least) wrong.
Polls were only dubious about absolute majority, not the victory itself.
As for the protests, bear in mind that Socialists and Communists lost the councils' elections immediately after that.
I don't think you know what was going to do "Most of Spain".
Regards,
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Pepe you would be kind enought to report to your local Soviet and make your auto-critic.
Long life to Zapatero your new great socialist leader !
et viva Zapata ! (hu ? :p)
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Originally posted by GScholz
To me it seems like the Spanish people is taking back their government from a party that ruled and lied like a dictatorship. Understandable ... it's only 30 years since they were ruled by a fascist dictator.
It's the US who are "giving in to the terrorists". It's the US who are allowing the terrorists to change their way of life, not the Spaniards.
What a load of bull. Hell yes lets just pretend that there arent people plotting to kill hundreds or thousands of us... Pretend its not a problem, appease them, hopefully they will go away, dissapear and leave us alone.
You guys are actually CHEERING that fact that a free nation capitualted to a bunch of terrorists after they murdered 200 innocent people....
You know, some have said that the train bombings were Spain's 9/11, but now it's becoming incresingly clear that this is not the case. The 3/11 train bombings are not Spain's 9/11, they are Spain's Munich Conference, and that is the real tragedy...
Peace in our Time!!!
:(
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GSholtz:
You seem to need urgent lessons both on recent and contemporanean spanish history.
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Well, I think I have to tell you how I went to watch the fire...
My friend picked me up and drove to Leninsky ave. to cross the river at the Big Stone bridge and come closer to Manezh (Riding ring). The traffic was blocked at the Garden Ring, so we crossed the river at Crimean bridge and turned right on Kropotkin str. Near the Christ the Saviour cathederal the traffic was redirected to Ostozhenka or Boulevard ring. Fortunately, the right turn on Frunze str. was not blocked, so we passed Defence ministry and parked a car on Big Stone bridge, 5min on foot from Manezh. Half of the centre was blocked...
The fire was visible from several kilometers. The crowd at the stairs of Lenin's library was not as big as I expected. The Borovitskaya underground station was not closed as I expected. The corner of Library and New Arbat (Kalinin ave.) was blocked by militia. We went to the militia line and watched the firemen work from ~300m.
There were many people with cameras, but they were far from militia line. One girl with an SLR came close and tried to "shoot", but militia major standing near started to shout "no photographing allowed!" and tried to seize her... A guy standing nearby blocked his way and let the girl run away. Major and two sergeants seized him and pressed against the floor for some time, but then let him go... I think it was just that aged major's reflex - not to let anyone photograph. The girl didn't have a chance to make any good pictures - it was too dark and too far for her built-in flash. There were people with profesional cameras on tripods up the Library staircase, but militia didn't interfere.
When we arrived - the roof already collapsed and the whole huge building was burning inside. Now only stone walls remain, interior is burnt out completely.
Exaxtly as I thought - the plan of "reconstruction" appeared before the building stopped burning. They are going to build 2 underground floors and make a new fashionable exhibition hall there. Bloody crooks, I bet some arse from Moscow city government set it on fire to steal money on reconstruction.
I hope everyone knows how a Stoly vodka label looks like. The building on it is a Moskva hotel, a huge building near Kremlin. Now, imagine, Moscow government says it is falling apart (!!! It was built in 1935 and could withstand a direct nuclear hit!), so they disassemble it to build another hotel there, looking exactly like the old one! What a gang of thieves! Then they disassemble Voentorg (military department store) built in 1910 - just to build another looking exactly the same! And now they are celebrating the Manezh fire as another source of money! @#$#@%^^!! They had plans to rebuild ALL the houses on Gorky street (Tverskaya) - just because they have wooden floors and are dangerous! Imagine some government arse declaring all houses on Broadway in NYC dangerous and ordering them all destroyed and rebuilt!...
As for the elections - I came home at 01:00 and turned on the TV. The news were interrupted to show Putin's press conference... They didn't tell anything about situation in Ajaria - they showed the stupid press-conference where comrade president repeated same slogans as usuall... The war is about to start and Russia will probably be involved - and it means nothing compared to stupid slogans...
Sign of time: next day "liberal" radio "Echo of Moscow" dad a fire in Manezh as the first news, elections - only as second.
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thanks for the update Boroda.. damned interesting for sure.
My brother and his family are all living in Russia for the next few years... definately intersting.
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Gruntard talking out of his anus again I see :rolleyes:
Iraq != war on terror, no matter how hard you try and spin it. No-one believes it except you and your armchair bound ilk.
PSOE != lefty peacenik appeasers - check their record against ETA in the 1980's, in fact check their entire 1980's record, they were pro-market, pro-USA, pro-NATO, about as socialist as the British Labour Party is now.
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Spain and her people have every right to believe what they will and to act accordingly....our opposing views really should not matter.
What is important to realize, is that the result of taking whatever position carries real consequences...for Spain and the USA.
If we back off now, the wrong message will be sent to those who wish us harm.....the bombing in Spain and the resulting election will soon be used to promote, recruit and motivate future terrorists, just like they currently use the US withdrawl from Beirut as a tool for recruitment.
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Heyas Boroda!
As an outsider, the situation in your country appears to be very dangerous and could affect all of us.....it seems the Russian people have no hope.
Is this close to the truth in your opinion, or do you believe Putin will do what's best for the Russian people? Personally, I see him as a very dangerous man.
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Originally posted by Rude
Heyas Boroda!
As an outsider, the situation in your country appears to be very dangerous and could affect all of us.....it seems the Russian people have no hope.
Is this close to the truth in your opinion, or do you believe Putin will do what's best for the Russian people? Personally, I see him as a very dangerous man.
In fact the situation now is better then in 1998-99. It's not all that bad.
I find Putin more intelligent and rational then previous leaders. But I don't like the way things are going now. I don't mind him sending our new-brewn billionaires to jail, i don't care for that "freedom of press" crap (it's used as a slogan by certain financial and political groups who simply don't care about anything but their profit at our expence), but I see some things that can make situation worse. After 12 years of "free enterprising" it will really hurt if government will restrict imports and try to interfere into business. Our laws are so nice that anyone who really works and not sits his arse off can be put to jail or at least fined and ruined completely. "Clear" business means that you have to pay all your profits to Big Brother and still will be in debt.
We'll see how the things will go in a matter of months.
If we'll go back to Soviet times - I have my arse covered, I am an Academy of Science employee. If we'll follow post-1933 Germany path - it can be not as bad as it can seem (I don't mean starting agressive wars - i hope they are smart enough up there), but the changes in society will be dramatic.
So far I see no movement towards limiting government corruption. This is the biggest problem. And as far as I see - there is no solution for our idiotic law-enforcement other then fireing every militia man and prohibiting them to take government-employment positions.
But the situation is much, much better then in early-90s.
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Originally posted by Rude
Heyas Boroda!
As an outsider, the situation in your country appears to be very dangerous and could affect all of us.....it seems the Russian people have no hope.
Is this close to the truth in your opinion, or do you believe Putin will do what's best for the Russian people? Personally, I see him as a very dangerous man.
BUT our glourious leader looked into his heart and saw that he was truley a god fearing nice guy!!!
And basicly told putin to do whatever he felt like.