Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tumor on March 14, 2004, 10:59:59 PM
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....is still BS.
Just sayin.
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Originally posted by Tumor
....is still BS.
Just sayin.
I don't know about the accuracy ( I could not hit at D200 with those things, lol) but the lethality, man.
1.2Kout, two pings, two wings missing :rofl
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Funny, this has been gnawing at me since yesterday...
1.2 b26 formation nails the engine oil in the 190a8 i was in yesterday. I was higher than the buff and extending forward and laterally.
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Originally posted by Virage
Funny, this has been gnawing at me since yesterday...
1.2 b26 formation nails the engine oil in the 190a8 i was in yesterday. I was higher than the buff and extending forward and laterally.
At list you kept your wings, :lol
I only attack buffs now just to see if I can make on pass without any damage. (no I dont attack from 6. Always 9,10,11,1,2,3)
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if you had 30's you could ho 'em fairly easy
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What kind of tactics are you using?
I fly the B17 a lot and marvel when someone comes in co-alt, at my 6...and sits there. I patiently wait until D-700 and hammer away. Then they whine on channel one how the buff guns are uber. :rolleyes:
I havent had much luck with the long shots you guys are seeing. Conversely, I've had Typhoons pelt me with their cannons from 1.8k out and do some good damage. Quite the lob
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Originally posted by LePaul
What kind of tactics are you using?
High speed dives from (preferably) 10,11,1,2 some times 9,3 O'clock. Don;t get me wrong, I can get two of the bufs in one pass if the pilot is new. But if its the 999, tatertot, or the MAW guy, you can easyly die at 1.5 out. I think the accuracy is pilot skill, but the damage seems a litle too mach. Then again, I could be wrong.
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I never have any real difficulties against bombers..IF I set up my approach, and take my time. I only approach from their high 10, 2, 5, or 7. If I am lower, I won't engage anything other than lancasters. If I overshoot, I'll reset and re-engage. Too often, guys get greedy, or frustrated, leading up to the dead 6 shootout.
bad idea.
Extend after every guns pass, reset, ant come back for another slashing pass. Don't hold your position relative to the bombers direction, or you're a sitting duck. And, if he's got you sighted, break off and reset.
Gainsie
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You guys are being wise.
Ju88s are sitting ducks. Sometimes those rear guns can ding you if they know what they are doing (I always aim for the cockpit when defending in the Ju88...forget taking off pieces, so pray for the blackouts)
Lancasters....avoid the tail completely, either go head on and aim for a wingtip or from below. A Lanc cant recover from loosing a wingtip.
B-17s...from the front and back are bad, lots of overlapping gun coverage. You guys have it right, its hard to defend the side positions if you hit from the buffs 2 or 10 oclock.
B-26s are salamanderly...they seem to have amazing side coverage. When I have flown fighters, the B26s have always scored engine hits from incredible distances. Most get impatient and go for the 6 attack, since the B26 is so fast. Like the Lanc, Ive found the B26 can't survive missing any wing parts.
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if you trouble with buffs, you are doing it wrong.
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I patiently wait until D-700 and hammer away. Then they whine on channel one how the buff guns are uber.
Lethality is the same with all others, velocity at impact appears to determine the amount of damage. So if you are in a p51 d700 dead 6 firing at a buff and he’s firing back 1 hit from him on you will cause more damage then you on him. You are flying into his rounds. You may have experienced this effect in a ho as well.
So lethality isn't an issue with buffs. (unless it is across the board with all planes with 50s)
But I quote you above because d700....
Testing done by the USAAF found that the bullet pattern from a B-17 during ground testing had the following results for 12 rounds to 600yds:
ball turret > dia. 15' - 8.3mils
upper turret > dia. 21' - 11.7mils
chin turret > dia. 23' - 12.6 mils
waist(closed) dia. 26' - 14.3mils
side nose > dia. 34' - 18.7mils
tail turret > dia 45' - 25mils
For the B-24 it was:
ball turret > dia. 15' - 8.3mils
upper turret > dia. 20' - 11.2mils
nose turret > dia. 23' - 12.9mils (Emerson)
nose turret > dia. 35' - 19.3mils (Motor Prod.)
waist(closed) dia. 23' - 12.9mils
waist(open) dia. 63' - 35.6mils
tail turret > dia 35' - 19.3mils
At 600yrd the tail gunner pattern is 45 feet firing 12 rounds. With no vibration, eng stream effects etc the gunner positions are as stable as a field gun and allow the gunner to easily aim at long range and score hits. Combine this with what I stated above its no wonder some folk’s feel that buff guns are over done. Certainly the lack of gun shake etc is a game play decision but it’s also clear that buff gunners in ah are far more accurate then one reads about in rl.
There is some truth in what he says. You may like it as is but that has no bearing on whether hes right or wrong.
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I never seem to get enough lead in my buff gunnery for off angle shots but there are two shots I love. Dead 6 :rolleyes: and co-alt and parallel out to d1.6; brings a smile to my hart.
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The only buffs I see lately are fast B26 formations at sea level. And yep, one ping, radiator out, second ping, wing out, and so on.
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Originally posted by GODO
The only buffs I see lately are fast B26 formations at sea level. And yep, one ping, radiator out, second ping, wing out, and so on.
Yup, demaw does this and only this, he has like 3,000 buff sorties a camp. Just flies B26's on the deck and shoots down fighters. I have even seen Bishop Niki's and Spits run to his guns for cover. Kind of a rediculous scenario...I have not been in Aces High since it's inception but it seems like buff guns were jacked up and then they added the formation thing. So, now we have an overpowering situation that really isn't realistic.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Yup, demaw does this and only this, he has like 3,000 buff sorties a camp. Just flies B26's on the deck and shoots down fighters. I have even seen Bishop Niki's and Spits run to his guns for cover. Kind of a rediculous scenario...I have not been in Aces High since it's inception but it seems like buff guns were jacked up and then they added the formation thing. So, now we have an overpowering situation that really isn't realistic.
Actually they were worse before the formation bacuase there was no cutout when firing through the tail or wing. When they added the formation they also added the cutout on the guns. In addition to that the guns from the two aircraft you are not sitting in almost always miss.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Actually they were worse before the formation bacuase there was no cutout when firing through the tail or wing. When they added the formation they also added the cutout on the guns. In addition to that the guns from the two aircraft you are not sitting in almost always miss.
Right, and there is no way with formations to fire all the guns on a single buff the way you could in 1.09. It's either one gun position only or all positions from all buffs wasting most of your ammo.:rolleyes:
Guys who know what they are doing will take out two of your buffs in a single pass. The damage isn't supposed to transfer but it sure looks like it still does.
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Originally posted by Easyscor
Right, and there is no way with formations to fire all the guns on a single buff the way you could in 1.09. It's either one gun position only or all positions from all buffs wasting most of your ammo.:rolleyes:
Guys who know what they are doing will take out two of your buffs in a single pass. The damage isn't supposed to transfer but it sure looks like it still does.
Agreed, that still seems to happen to me, too.
I'll happily take my solo bombers and uber sight back...rather than the version we have now with 3x the guns firing back at interceptors and synching the sites. I have no real problem with bomb site synching now but I know its turned a lot of armchair bomber guys away...or into those suicide Lanc morons everyone complains about.
It'll only get worse of AI gunnery (Otto) is added to the bombers.
But that's just me. I found it more sporting with one bomber. With the 3-ship formation, I can do vastly more damage, sink fleets etc.
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Originally posted by LePaul
You guys are being wise.
B26 can't survive missing any wing parts.
Check my score Vs. buffs (2bull)
My top two victims are lancasters and B17's
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I hit buffs any time I see em and as most have said, if you come in fast the buffs don't have a chance, except for the guys mentioned 999000, BGB, et-al they are deadly.
All in all I think its the gun positions that get knoced out too easily in the buffs that sucks.
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If buff guns are so leathal because of bullet travel and aircraft speed, how come head-on passes with .50 aren't totally annihilating the target (merge speed is double.)
Nope, they're a concession. Readily admitted by HT, too.
The gun positions are way too tough as they are. It's practically impossible to kill gunners with anything but direct cannon shots. In reality gunners were fairly easy to disable, planes had paper walls and .50 packs a nice punch anti-personnel.
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Maybe there can be some method to reduce the accuracy of the guns slaved to the gamer's gunner?
You guys say the gunfire from the drones are nothing but wasting ammo, but frankly, on the receiving end, it's sheer terror.
I can try all the fancy suggested methods of taking down buffs safely, and it usually works good. However, just one volley of pings and usually my wing snaps off. Plane catches fire. Engine dies. V-stab's knocked.. etc etc...
If the accuracy of the slaved guns were altered, and people actually have a chance to stay inside 1.0d without being worried of the one unfortunate volley of bullets that almost certainly kills your plane instantly, then I'd be happy to see the buffs more beefed up in structural integrity.
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The gun positions are way too tough as they are. It's practically impossible to kill gunners with anything but direct cannon shots.
I disagree, whenever I join a bomber say a B17 it only takes a few pings and usually the Top turrent and Tail are lost. Maybe it's just me, but seems to happen alot.
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I think it comes down to pilot skill. If I am in a 17, feel free to come within d200. Nothing will happen to you. If its one of the guys that know how to use those guns, you will be dead before you enter D1K.
I can take down buffs with ease - too easy sometimes. However if the pilot is 999, tatertot, or ??MAW (i think), I would be lucky to get one before I die.
Bottom line is that even if we think those guns are overmodeld, they cannot hurt you if the pilot does not know how to use them.
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The point of this thread isn't about "how do you kill buffs". Everyone knows how to do that. The original poster states "bomber guns are BS".
They are, regardless of how easy you think they are to kill or how easy you get killed while in one. Kills out to 1k and longer are BS compared to rl. You may agree with the game play concessions but that has no relation to whether they are accurately modeled or not.
You want to see killer buff guns attack a Pe2 in FB... Ouch.
Part of the reason buff formations are easy kills is they are so close. This also helps with their defensive fire but makes adjusting fire easy for the attacker.
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I don't know much about the guns, but did all of them have those little HUD aiming sights?
For those that don't, I think the problem could be solved by **NOT** tieing the head movement to the gun movement. It would have to be tied to the moust movement, So you actually have to follow it, possible move your head around.
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buff killers i agree sometimes it may seem guns are over modeled but isnt everything in ah a little maybe.guys who attack from 2 or 10 oclock do have the advantage in real life would you attack 3 17s from the 6 i think not! seems to me guys with alt aND speed useualy win in attacks on myself.as for 1.2 hits not sure why we can hit you that far but as a buff dweeb (ill say it before someone else does ) bifferent guns use different anglesill explain 17s i lead alot kis i aim high let bullets drop with a arch.kinda like eash fighter has a querk so does a buff. as far as formations i wouldnt mind the old way myself 1 buff verses 8 cons !!!! who would win =]
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Originally posted by tatertot
buff killers i agree sometimes it may seem guns are over modeled but isnt everything in ah a little maybe.guys who attack from 2 or 10 oclock do have the advantage in real life would you attack 3 17s from the 6 i think not! seems to me guys with alt aND speed useualy win in attacks on myself.as for 1.2 hits not sure why we can hit you that far but as a buff dweeb (ill say it before someone else does ) bifferent guns use different anglesill explain 17s i lead alot kis i aim high let bullets drop with a arch.kinda like eash fighter has a querk so does a buff. as far as formations i wouldnt mind the old way myself 1 buff verses 8 cons !!!! who would win =]
I still think its skill. Guns cn't hurt you if they cannot hit you. Most buffs will never ping you. It is only a hand full of guys that can do that.
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Unfortunately, it's usually those handful of guys who actually up buffs at alt and know how to bomb things :)
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Unfortunately, it's usually those handful of guys who actually up buffs at alt and know how to bomb things :)
Yewa but you know, I'll you guys for at least attempting to intercept us...had this been posted in the General Discussion area, they big diversion would have been how buffs ruin the game for the furballers, yada yada...to me, half the fun is *getting* the bombs to target. The other is hitting what ya aim for...and a real perk...making it back!
Also...Kweassa, you mentioned the wasting of ammo...I wish I could select my "volume" of fire, having only one buff fire and not all 3. But you're right, if you are in a buff's range of fire, 3 bombers tossing tracers at you can do some damage fast.
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Out of sheer boredom I started flying buffs for fun. Ive gotten pretty good at guns and usually kill all attackers until ammo runs out. Almost every one of them attacks from really bad angles.. (ho or dead 6) Its quite enjoyable to kill 4 or 5 cons and bomb a city to helll. If u think the guns are bs then take a moment to remember aw's guns. 8 or so gunners on 1 plane.. then fly in box formation...I think thats alot tougher. When attacking buffs my angles usually are poor and I still have good success. Take the time to get good at the guns..its a blast....err
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I think it would be awesome if you could fit at least 2 more people on a 17. Who wouldn't have fun with that?
But when I go after a Buff, should I be aiming anywhere in particular?
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Aim at the wing tips,
Either the tip will fall off causeing the plane to start rolling over then the gunner cant aim, or you'll hit the gas tanks and whammmo he's dead.
I remember the old AW let you allow people to crew your guns, that was awsome. Wish they kept it here too.
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heres a hint from a buff dweebs view stay away from 6 12 3 9 lower and upper and ill never hit you all