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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: _Schadenfreude_ on March 16, 2004, 01:26:39 AM

Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on March 16, 2004, 01:26:39 AM
Is there one and if so could someone point me in the right direction plse?
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Saintaw on March 16, 2004, 01:48:32 AM
I don't think there is one, but it would be boring without all this American 'wisdom' wouldn't it be?
Title: Re: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on March 16, 2004, 01:49:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
I don't think there is one, but it would be boring without all this American 'wisdom' wouldn't it be?


Shut up Frenchie.
-SW
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Saintaw on March 16, 2004, 01:52:28 AM
*love is in the air...* :D
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on March 16, 2004, 02:03:58 AM
I will destroy you in your sleep. Have you ever had a French omelette? Funked will introduce you to that in the morning if you haven't. Enjoy mes amis (I spell French like it sounds, OK?).
-SW
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: straffo on March 16, 2004, 03:11:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
I will destroy you in your sleep. Have you ever had a French omelette? Funked will introduce you to that in the morning if you haven't. Enjoy mes amis (I spell French like it sounds, OK?).
-SW


I do spell french it like it sound too :)

It canne bi horrible if aï spelle angliche  laîke it sound for mi bicause it ouon't louk laïke angliche at oll.

Iou would have ane harde taïme diciphéring maï postes :D
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: CyranoAH on March 16, 2004, 03:46:57 AM
Ou, sou dis is di "espic inglis in llour oun langüech" zred?

Fonetic gruaitin can bi sou mach fan.

Daniel
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: straffo on March 16, 2004, 04:00:32 AM
zat sound very vouerde tou wraïte angliche zis wai :)

zis waz very harde for mi tou translaite :
Quote
gruaitin
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Holden McGroin on March 16, 2004, 04:12:46 AM
Gud engleesh dont spel fonetical lak dat atal.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: CyranoAH on March 16, 2004, 04:15:51 AM
gruaitin is güat llu du güiz a quibor or güiz a pensil or a pen. Ai joup dat clarifais it for llu.

Daniel
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: straffo on March 16, 2004, 04:29:58 AM


I shouldn't have started this ... Cyrano you win :)

so far it's spanish or catalonian spelling ?
( yep I'm unable to make the difference ... call me dweeb :))
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: ravells on March 16, 2004, 04:39:21 AM
Shaden,

There is no UK BBS, but there is a a UK/Euro Mailing list: ukaw@airwar.org.uk

You need to be put onto the mailing list by the administrators, I think Bunter, but I'm not sure.

I think I led you astray by mentioning a UK BBS, but in fact I meant a Mailing List.

Anyone who is interested in joining the mailing list, please email me at: ravells@hotmail.com and I will get you put on it.

Shaden: Are you still coming to the RAS talk on Thursday?

Ravs
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Pepe on March 16, 2004, 04:39:33 AM
Dweeb! :p
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: CyranoAH on March 16, 2004, 04:41:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo


I shouldn't have started this ... Cyrano you win :)

so far it's spanish or catalonian spelling ?
( yep I'm unable to make the difference ... call me dweeb :))


Catalonian isn't that different. You write phonetic english the same way. :)

Daniel

PS: Dweeb
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: straffo on March 16, 2004, 04:42:00 AM
zate waze note veri friendly ;)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Pepe on March 16, 2004, 04:56:02 AM
me güiiii!!!  :D
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on March 16, 2004, 05:00:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ravells
Shaden,

There is no UK BBS, but there is a a UK/Euro Mailing list: ukaw@airwar.org.uk

You need to be put onto the mailing list by the administrators, I think Bunter, but I'm not sure.

I think I led you astray by mentioning a UK BBS, but in fact I meant a Mailing List.

Anyone who is interested in joining the mailing list, please email me at: ravells@hotmail.com and I will get you put on it.

Shaden: Are you still coming to the RAS talk on Thursday?

Ravs


Yep I will - 4 Hamilton Place, tea and Biscuits from 5.30pm....

I'll email you with a request to go onto the mailing list and send over my mobile number at the same time - see you Thurs.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: CyranoAH on March 16, 2004, 05:00:25 AM
Ahh si tu ve nu puvon parle franse de la mem fason!

Se sampa, nespa? :D

Daniel
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: straffo on March 16, 2004, 05:03:12 AM
cé plu compréhensible pour moa :)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on March 16, 2004, 05:06:19 AM
btw http://www.play.com for UK games seems quite good
Title: Re: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: NUKE on March 16, 2004, 08:36:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Is there one and if so could someone point me in the right direction plse?


I hope you find one soon :)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on March 16, 2004, 09:09:26 AM
Don't like what I say? - Hit the ignore button.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Saurdaukar on March 16, 2004, 10:16:30 AM
What?  An 'international' board aint good enough for you?
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Curval on March 16, 2004, 10:20:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
What?  An 'international' board aint good enough for you?


Hmmm....I won't bother looking up all of the "This is an American BBS, so if you don't like it, don't read it" posts...just assume I have and posted the links below.  ;)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Toad on March 16, 2004, 10:21:03 AM
No, I think  it's that old misundertanding about free speech.

Some people seem to think it means everyone is free to agree with them. Nothing else.

:rofl
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: LePaul on March 16, 2004, 10:31:23 AM
Funny how they enjoying tearing at our politics here in the USA...but if we return the favor in their backyard....ooohhhh....no no, not allowed.

The irony is noted.
:rofl :p
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: ravells on March 16, 2004, 10:35:18 AM
Um... actually there is no UK/Euro BBS.  Just a mailserver.

Ravs
Title: Re: UK/Europe AH BS
Post by: Eagler on March 16, 2004, 10:51:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Is there one and if so could someone point me in the right direction plse?


watch where you step or you may find a pile of it :)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: ravells on March 16, 2004, 10:57:48 AM
Quote
Hmmm....I won't bother looking up all of the "This is an American BBS, so if you don't like it, don't read it" posts...just assume I have and posted the links below.


Actually Curval, to be fair, I've never seen a post saying that.

I've seen posts in which Americans have said 'this is an American issue, if you don't like it don't read it' but to my knowledge they have never asserted that because it is an American BBS  non-Americans should put up and shut up with American posts they don't agree with.

I could be wrong of course as I'm a relative newcomer here.

Ravs
Title: Re: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: AKIron on March 16, 2004, 11:02:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Is there one and if so could someone point me in the right direction plse?


May not have much regarding AH but you may find more like minded folks here (http://www.democrats.org/) than on this board.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: FUNKED1 on March 16, 2004, 11:07:40 AM
DETH TO EUREEEPKA!!!
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Monk on March 16, 2004, 11:10:31 AM
Americans Suck!!
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Replicant on March 16, 2004, 11:24:33 AM
We wanna talk about European Sheep! :):aok
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Saurdaukar on March 16, 2004, 11:40:18 AM
European sheep dont shave.

Not interested in picking wool out of my teeth, thanks.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Dowding on March 16, 2004, 11:42:30 AM
Quote
Actually Curval, to be fair, I've never seen a post saying that.


Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've seen it a few times. The people who have written it have generally been regarded as tards by just about everyone however.

Not sure how that relates to Toad's 'free speech' ideas though.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Saintaw on March 16, 2004, 11:49:03 AM
I'm starting to get a funny feeling.

SW wants to spend some tme with me during the night
I'll have breakfast with Funked
And I have a walk on the beach planned with Airhead and SOB.

What's next? Dowding's going to ask me out for a date? :confused:
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Toad on March 16, 2004, 11:51:34 AM
Allow me. ;)

IMO, there is a clear disconnect when it comes to the understanding of "free speech".

I think most of us in the US understand that it means "I am free to speak my mind, just as YOU are free to speak YOUR mind. It doesn't mean that everyone has to agree. Quite the contrary, it's expected that there will be disagreement and that this is a normal, accepted and even usually a good thing."

OTOH, I often get the feeling that the Euros seem to think "free speech" means "everyone is free to agree with me" or perhaps "free to agree with the current PC view" of the particular situation. Those that disagree are "free to keep their mouths shut." Dissent is rarely viewed as a good thing, rather those that go against the grain are suspect. IMO.

Now, the "This is an American BBS, so if you don't like it, don't read it" ties in this way. No matter where the BBS is based or what nationality predomniates, one is ALWAYS free to ignore any or all discussions. That's a personal freedom you control. If it bothers you, don't read further and certainly don't respond.

If you choose to read or respond or to NOT read or respond that is a FREE CHOICE that YOU are making. That's a good thing.

There.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Dowding on March 16, 2004, 12:06:11 PM
Excellent. Completely irrelevant to what I was asking, but excellent nonetheless.

"This is an American BBS, run by Americans, in America... so piss off" is not a 'right to disagree' issue. It's more of a "Your opinion is not as valid as mine because I'm an American on an American BBS and you're... not" kind of issue.

Which is retarded.

Everybody reserves the right to disagree for sure. Your definition of free speech doesn't seem to match mine, which actually involves dissent. What we have here is people being told to **** off based on the location of the HTC server. Seems a bit odd to my mind, but then I don't live in the same galaxy as you.

La. :D
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: AKIron on March 16, 2004, 12:10:59 PM
Lemme add to what Toad said about free speech. The phrase "freedom of speech" in the first amendment to the US Constitution applies to government censorship.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

It doesn't mean I can't shout you down if I don't like what you are saying. You may call be an bellybutton for doing so but to say I am depriving you of your constitutional right is to misunderstand the amendment.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: ravells on March 16, 2004, 12:13:57 PM
Dowding Said:

Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've seen it a few times. The people who have written it have generally been regarded as tards by just about everyone however.

Ah ok. I was just reporting my own observations.

Toad: We all enjoy a debate, Euros and Americans alike, and if anything, I would say that (in my experience) Americans are more PC on a host of issues than Euros.  Having said that a little civility helps. And yes, I do get exercised when some twit (who happens to be American in this case) makes inappropriate comments about the Spanish when they have just suffered a national disaster.  Like all freedoms, even the freedom of speech can be abused; as I would say it was in that case. Skuzzy shut down the thread because of this.

Ravs
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Dowding on March 16, 2004, 12:14:38 PM
You can shout someone down all you like. The point is whether that is decent behaviour. Where I was brought up... it isn't. The clever thing would be to make them look a fool by out-witting them.

But if you are shouting someone down I guess that option isn't open to you.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Steve on March 16, 2004, 12:16:14 PM
I wonder if Europeans will ever get over the fact that they are not Americans.  It never seems to stop bothering them.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Dowding on March 16, 2004, 12:19:31 PM
QED
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Curval on March 16, 2004, 12:27:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
I wonder if Europeans will ever get over the fact that they are not Americans.  It never seems to stop bothering them.


ravells...this is the sort of thing I am talking about.  It isn't exactly "This is an American BBS etc etc"...but it pretty much epitomises the atitude of some Americans here.

:rolleyes:

Thanks Steve for proving my point so eloquently.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: ravells on March 16, 2004, 12:37:41 PM
Lol! Curval. Thanks, I see now.

Ravs
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Steve on March 16, 2004, 12:42:12 PM
Bait barely hit the water... dang near pulled the pole out of my hand.  I love when I don't even have to set the hook.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on March 16, 2004, 02:30:28 PM
hhmm that's gonna be UK vs Europe but i thought UK was europe to :confused:

And I rather like it to be an international thing
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on March 16, 2004, 02:48:07 PM
Geesh ask a civil question and look what happens....
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: ravells on March 16, 2004, 03:48:32 PM
Evil European batty boy!

How dare you ask a civil question!

:)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Furious on March 16, 2004, 04:35:41 PM
Let's make it easy.

I can say anything about you/yours.  You can say nothing about me/mine.


It works for all countries.


...ohhh, sure, there may be some who don't view a criticism as a direct insult, but those *******s can got straight to hell.  

Why ruin a good *****, when generalizing is so much easier.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Toad on March 16, 2004, 05:02:25 PM
Totally relevant. You just missed it again. Probably because you're a Euro and don't "get it" anyway. ;) :p

Quote
Everybody reserves the right to disagree for sure.
[/b]

Absolutely. You've nailed this part.

Quote
"This is an American BBS, run by Americans, in America... so piss off" is not a 'right to disagree' issue.


Absolutely WRONG. This is where you continually miss.

Who ever posts that has his right to say/think what he likes. Just as YOU do.

Now.... after he says/posts that YOU have the right to disagree with him!

Kewl, eh? Free speechin'! Freedom just breaking out all over here!

The proper response would be to point out it's an INTERNATIONAL BBS, run by an American company based in America. Then point out that who owns it and where it originates has NOTHING to do with the current intelligent debate to which he has just failed to contribute.

Free speechifying at it's BEST!

Quote
The point is whether that is decent behaviour
[/b]

Huh? The point is Free Speech. Sometimes, it isn't pretty to watch. But it's still a good thing.

There's louts on both sides of the pond posting in the BBS. Either you let louts hurt your tender feelings or you just ignore them because.. well, they're loutish. Another mouse-click free choice option, eh?
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Toad on March 16, 2004, 05:04:54 PM
Steve, the warden says you have to throw them both back. This is an "artificial fly only" stream. Use of live bait is prohibted.

Sorry, mate. Toss 'em back in.

Dowd and Curv, the Fish and Game Department will sew those lip cuts up for you for free. Just call for an appointment.

;)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: ravells on March 16, 2004, 05:09:26 PM
Quote


The point is whether that is decent behaviour


Huh? The point is Free Speech. Sometimes, it isn't pretty to watch. But it's still a good thing.

There's louts on both sides of the pond posting in the BBS. Either you let louts hurt your tender feelings or you just ignore them because.. well, they're loutish. Another mouse-click free choice option, eh?


Oh come on Toad.  Don't let making the point ruin your argument and look at things in context. I suppose that when your mum does something you don't agree with you call her a '***ing *****' at home and then say you were just exercising your right to 'free speech'.

Get a sense of perspective instead of repeating yourself.

Being polite costs nothing and there are certain times and places to say things. I was brought up that way, and I'm sure you were.

Ravs
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Steve on March 16, 2004, 05:58:42 PM
No problem Toad, the ones that practically jump into the boat aren't much sport anyway.    :D
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Toad on March 16, 2004, 06:18:04 PM
Quote
Being polite costs nothing and there are certain times and places to say things. I was brought up that way, and I'm sure you were.


I agree.

Yes, I was also brought up that way. I try extremely hard not to fall into the impolite way of posting that we all see here.

OTOH, while there are limitations to the concept of "free speech", like shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theater when there is no fire, being impolite is NOT one of the limitations.

I may not like that much, but there it is.

I realize that English society is far more publicly polite than American public society. Been there, seen that. That's a cultural difference not likely to be rectified here on this BBS, however.

Some very erudite and polite people post here and I enjoy reading their views. Some true louts post here; I almost always skip over their posts, although now and again one of them suprises me and posts a cogent piece.

So, as I pointed out, you take the good with the bad. There's absolutely no reason to close the BBS because some folks are louts. That's just silly.

To paraphrase the Big J: for the louts always ye have with you.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Curval on March 16, 2004, 06:23:14 PM
I did a really quick search and input "Steve" and "Europe"and here are a couple of other gems from out resident "fisherman".

"Yes we do. As the most powerful nation in the world, we have the right to do whatever we damned well please. Cry about us not having the "right" all you want. I mean, other than cry, what can an impotent anti-american do? Oh ya.. hey.. go blow up some civilians!!!" - Steve  
:rolleyes:

In this one he is doing his usual SUPER AMERICA rhetoric:

"I'd also like to see us withdraw ALL of our aid to foreign countries that do not join us in the military action [I assume he means Europeans here]. We are feeding millions of people in third world countries that do nothing more than hold their hands out and make babies. Time for them to feed themselves or die." - Steve
:rolleyes:

I don't have the energy to look for any more...but I'm betting it wouldn't take too much to find them.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Steve on March 16, 2004, 06:26:31 PM
Gosh Curval, does this mean you don't have the balls/integrity to laugh at the joke, admit you got hooked?  Rhetorical question I see, makes it all more amusing.

Stand in front of a mirror and practice for a while.  Try stuff like:

"Hahaha, you got me, good one."

"I was wrong."

It's part of the maturation process, one day you may go through it.

Please, defend yourself more, I'm loving it.

:rofl
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Curval on March 16, 2004, 06:31:01 PM
Ahhh but Steve...I was fishing..and you are hooked.

See...I can do it too.:p
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Steve on March 16, 2004, 06:32:15 PM
Well if that's the case, you got me w/ my own bait!  touche'!

Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Curval on March 16, 2004, 06:44:53 PM
If Private Messaging was enabled I would reply that way, but as it isn't:

Interesting bit of BBS swordplay there.

You actually "did" hook me, and my first reaction was to go and find a bunch of quotes that you had made bashing Europe to throw in your face.  ;)

Fact is, these are really the only 2 bad ones I could find...and I did look harder than just those two criteria.  I'm sure I could find some more, but the reality is that you are pretty balanced when it comes to Europeans, based upon a quick read of your previous posts.

So, that made me think that I could "bait" you into a response anyway.  ;)

Your response to this was a noble one so I will just you back.

:D
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: ravells on March 16, 2004, 06:49:50 PM
phew! then we both agree with each other.

Perhaps where we differ (or maybe not), is that when I see a moron I call him one. Yes, he has the freedom to announce himself as a moron, and yes, I have the freedom to tell him he is one.

and I agree with you that calling for the closing down this BBS was perhaps a bit of an overreaction on Seeker's part, but hey..

If you   realize that English society is far more publicly polite than American public society. then that's a good thing.

As I keep saying, it's not a Euro vs. American problem (as much as people would like to make it that way) it's a moron vs. non moron problem.

Ravs
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Toad on March 16, 2004, 07:35:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ravells
when I see a moron I call him one.
and I agree with you that calling for the closing down this BBS was perhaps a bit of an overreaction on Seeker's part, but hey..

Ravs


While I see a lot of posts that make me want to shout "MORON!" I really try not to give in to the temptation in my post. If the guy really is a moron, it's pretty easy to make that self-evident using just the facts and standard debate techniques.

I mean, isn't calling someone a "moron" impolite? I thought we were all against being impolite? ;)

You certainly have the freedom to do so if you so choose, but isn't that becoming what you dislike?

My opinion is that the "free speech" misunderstanding is a Euro V US issue. Euro's just don't understand the way we view it and our view of what apparently passes for "free speech" in your debates is that it's really the freedom not to disagree. ;)

As for moron v moron..... yep, they're EVERYWHERE.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Holden McGroin on March 16, 2004, 08:36:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Everybody reserves the right to disagree for sure.  


I disagree.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Maverick on March 16, 2004, 10:39:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I disagree.


I disagree with YOUR disagreeing! :p  

I do have to say however that you ARE most disagreeable. :lol
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: ravells on March 17, 2004, 06:27:46 AM
quote:

I mean, isn't calling someone a "moron" impolite? I thought we were all against being impolite?  

You certainly have the freedom to do so if you so choose, but isn't that becoming what you dislike?


Lol, yeah. I try to resist the urge and succeed mostly, but sometimes it just has to be said.

My opinion is that the "free speech" misunderstanding is a Euro V US issue. Euro's just don't understand the way we view it and our view of what apparently passes for "free speech" in your debates is that it's really the freedom not to disagree.

Lol! That's a 'do you beat your wife every night?' argument. How do I disagree with that statement without the obvious reply? ;)


Ravs.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: StSanta on March 17, 2004, 06:47:49 AM
Quote

The proper response would be to point out it's an INTERNATIONAL BBS, run by an American company based in America. Then point out that who owns it and where it originates has NOTHING to do with the current intelligent debate to which he has just failed to contribute.

Free speechifying at it's BEST!


Dropzone.com is based in South Africa, yet has French and other sub-forums.

The reason is simple: Americanos vastly outnumber any other nation when it comes to post whoring. Thus, in every thread there'll be American-created tangents that detract from the original topic. One side of things is heavily weighted and there's a huge loss due to "noise-to-good-stuff" ratio.

So, knowing this, Sangiro (the Head Honcho at dz.com) created additional forums. There's not as much traffic on 'em, and since most Americans don't speak say French of German very well, they don't contribute that much.

I can tell you: it gets freaking annoying to read about who has been nig noggering with who, what the best (US) dz is and who you met for the evening party when 99% of that stuff isn't related to you. The Talkback (similar to the HTC O'Club forum) is just a very large orgy in American ethocentricity. The rest are about skydiving, and even here the US style/morals/methods are considered the norm and what something must be based on - which is BS, since in Denmark, our clubs run DZs and in the US, it's all pretty much commercial.

And it's not a matter of ignoring things.There's an aspect I call "cultural dominance" - that is, the dominant culture sets the mood, the norms, what is accepted and so forth. The dominant culture on a message board can supress any argument by volume alone.

You beginning to see a pattern here?

The pattern is: regionalized information is good from time to time. Some things (boogies, talk about DZs, local law) suffer greatly nder cultural dominance. Others (such as the Incidents forum, where incidents leading to injury and/or death are discussed) are much more universal.

The O'Club is one area where we could use some differentiation.

I DON'T GIVE A **** ABOUT THE AMERICAN ELECTION.

I'm free to not read any posts about it. I'm also free to stay away from the board. Which I have done, out of being so frustrated. But, the purpose of the board is to hang around, chat a bit, and show some Golly-geened respect towards each other.

It's not about rights, not much about free speech. It's about treating others with some good old fashioned respect. And knowigng and accepting that the world doesn't revolve around your own little sh|tty country.

I, out of respect for American, Guatemalans etc don't discuss every little disgustingly unimportant aspect of Danish political life. Big things sure, but I GOT the message re: US politics: Kerry is an arse and Bush is a big liar. I ain't telling you why Fogh Rasmussen is much cooler than that commie son-of-a-beeatch Lykketoft.

The respect thing: remember that there are other nationalities on the board and that ethnocentric posts drive up the noise-to-signal ratio. If I invited you over to my house for dinner, I wouldn't spend all evenig talking about me me me me me me and me. I sure could - it's within my rights. You have the right to leave. But it's not about that, but rather showing some (u)common courtesy and respect towards your fellow man.

Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Maniac on March 17, 2004, 07:25:57 AM
WoW.

Good post StSanta.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Toad on March 17, 2004, 08:30:26 AM
LOL, Santa.

So because there are sooooooooooo many Americans, they shouldn't talk about American stuff?

Do you have any suggestions where we should go to talk about this stuff?

Are you suggesting HTC make an "American's Only" O-Club and leave this one to everyone else?

You know what I find neat about your "cultural dominance theory"? The US is indeed a "melting pot" of cultures. :)

Anyway, the O-Club IS the place set aside to talk about everything/anything. With respect to the game itself, the underlying "glue" that holds this community together, we have our "Incident" forums.

Post what you like about Fogh Rasmussen and Lykketoft. I'll bet you have a very private thread. The Americans aren't going to join in because:

1. No one cares about Danish politics here because it won't affect us in any serious way.

2. Danish politics get little if any world news coverage. Thus, there's not much for anyone but a Dane to say simply due to lack of information.

That's not true in the case of Kerry/Bush is it? Correctly or incorrectly, many non-Americans here and many that don't frequent this board feel this is an issue that will affect their lives. Additionally, the International news is full of American politics. Everyone's an expert on OUR politics. Norwegians, Swedes, Finns, Danes, etc., all know more than we do and feel free to instruct us. :lol

It is about ignore. I pretty much ignore about 80% of the threads in the O-Club because I can tell simply from the title that I have no interest in them and certainly not enough time to read them all anyway.

For example I skipped right over "Need Paintballing Advice". I don't know anything about Paintball and I have no desire to play. Easy, isn't it?

OTOH, I KNEW from experience this thread would interest me.

;)

Maybe you guys should sign up 5000 Euro players. It'd surely change the cultural dominance on the BBS. :lol
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Maniac on March 17, 2004, 08:36:30 AM
Quote
Everyone's an expert on OUR politics. Norwegians, Swedes, Finns, Danes, etc., all know more than we do and feel free to instruct us.


Best thing you said in anwhile here. More of this spirit!



:aok
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Seeker on March 17, 2004, 08:44:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
LOL, Santa.


Post what you like about Fogh Rasmussen and Lykketoft. I'll bet you have a very private thread. The Americans aren't going to join in because:

1. No one cares about Danish politics here because it won't affect us in any serious way.

2. Danish politics get little if any world news coverage. Thus, there's not much for anyone but a Dane to say simply due to lack of information.


I bet you said that last week about the Spanish too.

And last year about the French.

Right now you're saying it about British politics; but should the political scene in Britain change (we too, have elections); I imagine this board will be full of how Britain is full of cowards too.

Your viewpoint is very common: If it's not American it's of no interest. In the light of the frequent reactions of shocked surprise at other countries political descions; that view point seems a bit short sighted.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on March 17, 2004, 09:46:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad

Maybe you guys should sign up 5000 Euro players. It'd surely change the cultural dominance on the BBS. :lol


Somone has...it's called IL2 FB, probably way more than 5,000 btw, wonder what sales of that thing are by now anyway.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Replicant on March 17, 2004, 10:47:08 AM
Anyway, going back to the topic... UK/Europe AH BBS, yes, I would very much like one so I can learn about our European cousins in great detail, although it'll prolly end up being hijacked!  That might sound a bit rosy but I would really like to learn about other European's thoughts on their countries, customs, good and bad stuff... oh, and their sheep! :)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Monk on March 17, 2004, 10:48:29 AM
Quote
Everyone's an expert on OUR politics. Norwegians, Swedes, Finns, Danes, etc., all know more than we do and feel free to instruct us.  


Well said.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: weaselsan on March 17, 2004, 10:52:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Somone has...it's called IL2 FB, probably way more than 5,000 btw, wonder what sales of that thing are by now anyway.


Can't talk politics over on their BB, they will ban you. UBI is a French company. Love the sim though...when ever new version is released it's always a hot topic.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: weaselsan on March 17, 2004, 10:56:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Replicant
Anyway, going back to the topic... UK/Europe AH BBS, yes, I would very much like one so I can learn about our European cousins in great detail, although it'll prolly end up being hijacked!  That might sound a bit rosy but I would really like to learn about other European's thoughts on their countries, customs, good and bad stuff... oh, and their sheep! :)


Your prolly right Euros hijacked this one from Americans....I really wanted to learn more about our mountain goats.:rofl
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Toad on March 17, 2004, 11:11:11 AM
Good to know Maniac recognizes sarcasm.

Seeker, think about it. The Euros apparently view Bush/Kerry as something important to them.So they follow it and post about it.

Why are you suprised that US folks are interested in what happened to Spain, our ally in Iraq? It's clearly an area of interest and when there's a pertinent event folks follow it and post about it.

It's not that Spain, France or England are of no interest. It's that they are not always the focus of our attention. For example, right now, this is an election year for us. Bush/Kerry is naturally going to be the focus. However, the Spanish bombings and subsequent elections draws our interest  as well.

I do think, however, that on balance Euros watch us more than we watch them. There's a host of reasons for that.

Schad, is the IL2FB board then Euro centric? Do they mostly dicuss European affairs in their "O-Club"? Do they even have an O'Club? Lastly, if it is Euro centric, why aren't all you folks enjoying yourselves there instead of suffering the outrageous Americans here?
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on March 17, 2004, 11:49:47 AM
lol they don't talk about politics or world events - they talk about the game and online flying, bit of *****ing about the view out of a FW190 at the moment as far as I can see....
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: StSanta on March 17, 2004, 12:57:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
LOL, Santa.


I am known to be funny from time to time.

Quote

So because there are sooooooooooo many Americans, they shouldn't talk about American stuff?


No. My whole post was about common decency and courtesy, not about Americans. I attempted to show, as schadenfreude originally asked, that there are times when differentiated forums is a good thing.

Now, one can  simply say "well FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Just ignore what you don't wanna read!"

And my point is that there's more to it than that. One wants to keep the noise ratio down. One could want to keep the information either context sensitive (i.e. taking location into advice) or, as much as possible, keep the stuff posted as generic as possible. To support my points, I referred to dropzone.com, which has had lots of success with a both generic and differentiated approach - without anyone whining about it or feeling excluded. That's all.

Quote

Do you have any suggestions where we should go to talk about this stuff?


Well, sort of. Since American politics is a very big thing in its own right, a subforum would be nice. That way we could keep the O' Club for the stuff that unites us instead. And all the "u r not living in the us so shut up and keep outta our threads stupid eurotrash" and the "d00d. Amreekhans are eehv and stoopit and bushs are hitler!" crap too.

Seriously. Europeans and Americans on this forum are starting to see each other a bit like opponents because of personal attacks that then are generalized to cover Europeans as a group and Americans as another. It's bloody ridiculous, harmful and stupid. Our governments aside, Americans and Europeans share so much culture, so many values and whatnot that the us vs them thing is really bad. All the bullsh|t isn't necessary and could easily be kept at a much more manageable level.

Quote
You know what I find neat about your "cultural dominance theory"? The US is indeed a "melting pot" of cultures. :)


The US is a melting pot sure. In many places though, there's no fire under the melting pot. I've seen studies (and I'll dig up the links if necessary) that clearly point towards a population divided up into segments that by and large are homogenous. In other words, the US as a whole is very heterogenous, but there is a strong tendency towards people "keeping with their own". Thus you get your little Chinas and so forth.

Of course there is a lot of "melting" going on, but one should not be so naeive as to think that you chaps are as mixed as say soft drink concentrate and water.

Quote
Anyway, the O-Club IS the place set aside to talk about everything/anything. With respect to the game itself, the underlying "glue" that holds this community together, we have our "Incident" forums.


Why's Schadenfreude suggestion so bad? We'd reduce the noise ratio, leave people less frustrated and more friendly and keep the O'Club for that which isn't so context sensitive - which is just about everything except bloody stupid silly infuriating American politics, where people actually HATE a person they've never met (be it Bush or Kerry).

So, the purpose would be to create a friendlier atmosphere with less noise and more content. It's apparent many posters don't have an intention of good will towards others as a default. They'll tralk about themselves after inviting you over, if you will. So, we'll set up another house - if you decide to come over afterall, you'll know what you'll get.

Quote

That's not true in the case of Kerry/Bush is it? Correctly or incorrectly, many non-Americans here and many that don't frequent this board feel this is an issue that will affect their lives. Additionally, the International news is full of American politics. Everyone's an expert on OUR politics. Norwegians, Swedes, Finns, Danes, etc., all know more than we do and feel free to instruct us. :lol


Kerry or Bush, it won't matter much. And as far as foreigners instructing you - you'd reduce that problem by saying "this forum is for A and B, not for C and D, so bugger off".

Quote

It is about ignore.


That's your approach and the one I currently am using too. Your noise ratio is a lot lower than mine though, since you belong to the culturally dominant group. Also, the ignore option semi-promotes the "being an ar$ehole" attitude, since it says "I can be an ar$ehole. You don't have to read what I write". Which of course is true - but what I am seeking is an approach where there's some group pressure towards adult behaviour, instead of a carte blanche to not thinking beyond oneself.

Ain't saying all this should be rules - on the contrary. What I'd like to see happen is that the environment, or culture, on this board changes somewhat. One way of achieving that is through structure.

I know you rarely get irritated or frustrated with the needless name-calling etc. that the ignore approach indirectly encourage. I do feel a twinge of annoyance when adults behave like kids - but that's up to them. I feel a little more than a twinge when it's indirectly condoned or promoted.

But really, I do what you do. I read some and ignore most And it doesn't matter, really - it's not important. But, it'd be nice if things were better, you know?

Quote
Maybe you guys should sign up 5000 Euro players. It'd surely change the cultural dominance on the BBS. :lol [/B]


Heh, well, we're working through Ahnold now, so we'll get there :)

I think it'd be easier to just have an American Politics sub section. It'd be better for you too - you'd have less noise and more content.

Which, incidentally, is *exactly* why there's an o'Club and a place to discuss Fm, and to discuss bugs etc :).

I think people trashed Schadenfreude unfairly because they felt his suggestion was some kinda Ewroophehan elitism. I didn't read it like that at all, and now I am writing this ridiculously long post instead of working on the database migration. Heh.:D
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Steve on March 17, 2004, 01:00:19 PM
Can you imagine the howls if we formed a U.S. only forum to go along w/ say.. a French only, or German only forum?

It would be, on a much smaller scale, akin to the howls you'd hear if there were a Miss White America contest to go along with that extremely racist Miss Black America contest.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Replicant on March 17, 2004, 01:05:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Can you imagine the howls if we formed a U.S. only forum to go along w/ say.. a French only, or German only forum?

It would be, on a much smaller scale, akin to the howls you'd hear if there were a Miss White America contest to go along with that extremely racist Miss Black America contest.


That's the funniest and most stupidest thing I've ever heard, I hope that was a bait! :lol
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Maniac on March 17, 2004, 01:07:52 PM
Quote
Can you imagine the howls if we formed a U.S. only forum


Here we go again... The Americans trying to pick a fight again...

Tiresome really.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Steve on March 17, 2004, 01:17:19 PM
Tee Hee.

:lol
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Maverick on March 17, 2004, 01:21:54 PM
There is a time honored concept for the division. Seperate but equal..............


Nahh the euros just need to recognise their place and pipe down.




























:p  :D

Wonder how many will bite????:lol
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Toad on March 17, 2004, 01:46:46 PM
If the whole pitch here is "make a US Politics Forum", I don't see the problem with that.

But then, I don't see the problem with just having the O'Club as it is.

To me the procedure in either case is the same. Don't read what you don't want to read.

Your implication is that you'd never read the US Political Forum? Thus the O'Club would have less "noise"?

So what then? A "Gun Control" forum for an issue that transcends political boundaries but that you wouldn't have to read and it would keep your "noise" down in the O'Club proper?

Then an "Abortion" forum? And a "Religion" Forum? And a "Homosexuality" forum?

Until we get down to the short list of things you're interested in reading? In order to keep the "noise" down, of course, for all of us.

Is this a subtle twist on the Euro view of "free speech"? ;)


The O' Club
Open forum for off-topic and less serious discussions pre-approved by StSanta.

Gotcha. :lol
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Maniac on March 17, 2004, 01:57:03 PM
Toad, thats djust fine as long as you let us know it all Europeans be a part of the US political discussions :p
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Replicant on March 17, 2004, 02:00:56 PM
Toad, I would like a UK/Europe forum to learn more about issues affecting/bothering my neighbours.  Currently any obscure Euro post on the O-Club is knocked off the first page from about 50 US topics.  I for one don't always check the 2nd, 3rd page etc., looking for the latest 'Off Topics'.  Hopefully on a UK/Euro board stuff would linger for a more to see and interact.  In all honesty I do agree with a lot St Santa has written above.

Sometimes when Euro stuff is posted it simply gets hijacked into something American.  Sorry, but it's often quite true.  I know very little about Europe politics and this to me would be a great opportunity to at least appreciate what other countries and AH friends are going through/or having to put up with.  It's not a Europe vs USA, it's just you reading a weather report for the Outer Hebrides when you live in Kansas! :)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Toad on March 17, 2004, 02:14:21 PM
Well, Nexx, let's look at it from HTC's perspective.

They have this BBS primarily as a way for the community to discuss AH and also so that there is a way for information/opinions ABOUT AH to flow between HTC and the player base.

I believe the O'Club was designed and implemented to remove some of Santa's "noise" from the forums that are intended to focus on the game. Notice that all the other Forums say something about AH, like

Quote
Open forum for the general discussion of Aces High.


Note also that Skuzzy often moves "off topic" threads from these designated AH Forums and puts them in the O'Club.

Now, what you are asking for is for HTC to make ANOTHER
Quote
Open forum for off-topic and less serious discussions
that is Euro specific. In other words, TWO O'Club's; one for Amreeekans and one for Euros.

I personally have no problem with that. OTOH, it'd be one more Forum for Skuzzy to "police" for off topic threads ("Sorry, this goes in the OTHER O-Club!") Additionally, I think HT would view it as a move that segregates or splits the community in a fashion. From talking about stuff like this, I don't think he'd go for that. Heck, I can't convince him to make range channel squelch-able for that reason alone.

So, while it wouldn't bother me in the least, I suspect it probably wouldn't happen here.

No reason not to ask LePaul to put up a "Euro O" at CheckSix though. Would that satisfy? Heck, he' probably like it because it'd up his board traffic.  ;)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Replicant on March 17, 2004, 02:39:41 PM
I'm not asking HTC to do anything.  A UK/Europe AH BBS doesn't necessarily have to be located on a HTC server - we have AH related FTP sites, skin sites, other resources etc., a UK/Europe BBS could simply be 'one' of those.  I never really want or expect a new BBS on the HTC server simply because it would be hijacked and abused by 'moron's as Ravells nicely puts it! :)  (Moron is actually a compliment compared to some of the words I can think of! :))

If 'CheckSix' is the way to go then I'm for it, although I'm totally unfamiliar with that site believe it or not! :)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: maslo on March 17, 2004, 02:58:59 PM
well Toad i know that im a tard, but can you post a link on some American BBS, where people can  speak freely w/o beeing banned ?
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: maslo on March 17, 2004, 03:07:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Monk
Well said.


BS we are talking about internationals issue mostly

i didnt see any post regarding US internal problems, whitch has been full of non-us posters


So yes, international issues arent US thing
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Dowding on March 17, 2004, 05:43:25 PM
You still misunderstand what I'm saying, Toad. I wish I had more time to post in this thread but I get so little opportunity these days. I'll try and post more tomorrow.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Toad on March 17, 2004, 05:58:46 PM
Nope, Orel, I can't.

I'm sure there is one though. I just wouldn't frequent a BBS like that. I might get so incensed that I called someone a marooon or something.

Take CheckSix, for instance. LePaul opened up an AH Forum after Skuzzy banned a few folks here just so everyone would have a place to speak and post in a totally free, unfettered environment.

Guess what? It didn't last. Couldn't last. Why? Human nature. Now LePaul and MiniD monitor the board and they've banned folks over there. Ironic, isn't it? However, I totally understand the need.

So the answer to your question is:

I'm sure there are some but I don't know of them. I wouldn't look for them or frequent them.

Enjoy your search, however.

Dowding, NP. I'll wait. You're posts are mostly worth it. ;)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: StSanta on March 17, 2004, 11:34:04 PM
Toad:

you imply that "free speech" to me is somewhat lesser than it is to you.

I deeply resent this implication and find that you can even consider that thought to be rather surprising, given my record here.

That's your choice though. I'll not retaliate in kind because that is pointless.

Attempts to piss it away with "was just a joke" will only leave your bladder empty. While it can be seen as entirely innocent for fun-jabbing, it's a) not like you and b) in a context that makes it unlikely. Which is all the more surprising and disappointing.

If it was directed towards other "Europeans", well, next time, clear the target area before ya take a piss. You're American and a gun owner, you should know not to point a loaded thingy at something unless you intend to destroy it.

:D
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Toad on March 18, 2004, 01:00:09 AM
No, I don't imply anything.

I say that Euro's seem to have quite a different concept of "free speech" than we do. Not "lesser"; "different".

It's easily observed right  here on this board.

I'll say again: we all inherently understand that we can speak our peace.

We also inherently understand that just because we said it doesn't mean other people will not disagree with us.

We inherently understand that they have as much right to voice dissenting opinion as we ourselves have to voice the original opinion.

We inherently understand that not everyone is going to be polite during this process.

Now, is that your understanding of it?
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Saintaw on March 18, 2004, 01:41:19 AM
Yurop based BBS (http://www.me109.net/forum/upload/)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: straffo on March 18, 2004, 02:25:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
Yurop based BBS (http://www.me109.net/forum/upload/)


no way ! this place is full of swede and dweebs !

We have some volvo moment (ask Guardy for a proper explanation of this new trend we have in squad ;))
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on March 18, 2004, 02:39:14 AM
lol just been put in charge of setting up the supply of Pharmaceutical products - annual spend $1.8 million dollars, currently with a US manufacturer but have another company in Spain who wishes to bid........at a slight lower cost.....

mmmm decisions decisions.....
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Holden McGroin on March 18, 2004, 03:31:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
So what then? A "Gun Control" forum for an issue that transcends political boundaries but that you wouldn't have to read and it would keep your "noise" down in the O'Club proper?


My Horoscope for this week:

By Lloyd Schumner Sr.
Retired Machinist and
A.A.P.B.-Certified Astrologer

Sagittarius: (Nov. 22—Dec. 21)
You will spend hours this week engaged in a bizarre political debate over whether guns can kill people.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Toad on March 18, 2004, 08:44:21 AM
If the quality is the same, I'd go with Spain. It's smart business.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Monk on March 18, 2004, 10:40:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by maslo

i didnt see any post regarding US internal problems, whitch has been full of non-us posters


 
 surely not.
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: Replicant on March 18, 2004, 01:23:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
no way ! this place is full of swede and dweebs !

We have some volvo moment (ask Guardy for a proper explanation of this new trend we have in squad ;))


I've now posted on it! :)  Baaaaaaa! :)
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: beet1e on March 30, 2004, 04:33:44 AM
I must have missed this thread while I was away. I think it got buried in all the America postings. :lol

One question: Why does AKSWulfe persist in thinking that Saintaw is French?
Title: UK/Europe AH BBS
Post by: straffo on March 30, 2004, 04:43:58 AM
Well Beetle , to clarify a bit Saw is just a "wanabe" French.



in fact,it piss a bit Saw to be confused with a French as he is "Belgicain" :)