Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on March 17, 2004, 04:51:53 PM
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I've said it time and time again, Clintons' reign will haunt for years to come, on various levels...this is just one of them.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4540958/
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Hey Clinton had other things under his desk at the time:D
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So Clinton should have launched more cruise missles? Wait.... that was what he did wrong.
I think maybe you guys are confused.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
So Clinton should have launched more cruise missles? Wait.... that was what he did wrong.
I think maybe you guys are confused.
Your right MT. How can we argue with the course of action that he took.
He did nothing. He sat on his friggin' hands because Clinton was and is a man who puts his own political career ahead of the country.
OBL was a wanted man. The blood of 240 people were on his hands already. Instead of protecting his country, Clinton was too afraid of what the fallout would be.
Probably afraid the europeans wouls protest and assasination of a foreign civilian or something.
But you're right, MT. When in doubt, don't do anything...that's the safe choice.:rolleyes:
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Yes, it was pretty bad that we cuaght him on tape and were unable to at least send a few Tomahawks at him.
From what i've heard so far the tape is dated "Fall 2000".
GWB had to have seen this video tape, and If he was actively pursuing OBL he could have stepped up the search and would have had a whole year to target OBL without major military confrontation in Afghanistan.
Looks like a major oppurtunity was missed by both administrations in the year before 9/11. Although it would be hard to say if OBL was killed in 2000/2001 it would have prevented the 9/11 attacks.
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While I believe the OBL is the head of Al Queda, his death alone wouldn't have stopped 9/11 or the Spanish Bombings.
However, had Clinton gone after the little ****s, it would have.
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Clinton did more to combat terrorism than any President before or even since (until 9-11).
Look it up. You will be surprised.
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if someone had killed hitler in the early 30's so much would have been avoided..
if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
While I believe the OBL is the head of Al Queda, his death alone wouldn't have stopped 9/11 or the Spanish Bombings.
However, had Clinton gone after the little ****s, it would have.
Oh really, GWB has being going after them for some time now.....
Has he stopped anything?
You're so transparent...
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A Presidential order has been in place to KILL Bin Laden for over 7 years now. I wonder who gave that directive???
You guys need to read a freakin book.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
While I believe the OBL is the head of Al Queda, his death alone wouldn't have stopped 9/11 or the Spanish Bombings.
However, had Clinton gone after the little ****s, it would have.
So his Death wouldnt have stopped 9/11 or Madrid?
But If Clinton had killed him it would have?
Your confusing me here sailor...
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Originally posted by midnight Target
A Presidential order has been in place to KILL Bin Laden for over 7 years now. I wonder who gave that directive???
You guys need to read a freakin book.
If he gave the directive, then why didn't he abide by it?
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Originally posted by Thud
Oh really, GWB has being going after them for some time now.....
Has he stopped anything?
You're so transparent...
And you are pretty dense. I know you hate Bush and think he is hitler but you are seriouysly stupid if you dont think that OUR joint actions in Afghnistan and the GLOBAL war on terror havent hurt the terrorists in a major way. Be careful there, you are letting your ignorant hatred of Bush drive you to insult all the nations participating and working together hard in the post 911 war on terror, probably even your country....
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Err, my bad. Didn't occur to me that it wouldn't occur to you guys that I was referring to terrorists.
MT, remember, a warrent is only worth something if someone acts on it...
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Originally posted by midnight Target
A Presidential order has been in place to KILL Bin Laden for over 7 years now. I wonder who gave that directive???
You guys need to read a freakin book.
I read that clinton had a bunch of chances to capture bin laden in Yemen very easily but didnt act on it. Why not?
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Originally posted by Martlet
If he gave the directive, then why didn't he abide by it?
Why didnt GWB abide by it either?
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You probably also read how the Sudan had him giftwrapped and Clinton said no thanks...
that's BS too.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
And you are pretty dense. I know you hate Bush and think he is hitler but you are seriouysly stupid if you dont think that OUR joint actions in Afghnistan and the GLOBAL war on terror havent hurt the terrorists in a major way. Be careful there, you are letting your ignorant hatred of Bush drive you to insult all the nations participating and working together hard in the post 911 war on terror, probably even your country....
You apparently know nothing about me, but anyway... I never said that Boosh's efforts didn't harm terrorism. I stated that someone who says that Clinton hunting OBL and his fellow-morons down would have stopped 911 and Madrid, but then states that killing him wouldn't have stopped the same events.
I.e. --> Hypocrit --> It's all Clinton's fault and GWB knows best!
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Originally posted by Nefarious
Why didnt GWB abide by it either?
As soon as he finds him, I'm sure he will.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You probably also read how the Sudan had him giftwrapped and Clinton said no thanks...
that's BS too.
So everything that maybe suggests clinton made a mistake or missed an opprtunity to capture bin laden was wrong or is a lie?
Err and yes I ment sudan, not yemen. From what I read he lived rather openly in sudan at the time, much moreso than ion afghanistan a few yesrs later. That alone would make it easier to nab him. I did read something bout what you said but it was inconclusive and seemed to be maybe too good to be true.
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Originally posted by Thud
Oh really, GWB has being going after them for some time now.....
Has he stopped anything?
You're so transparent...
LATER YOU SAID:
I never said that Boosh's efforts didn't harm terrorism.
I'm sorry, but thats BS.... Or are you gonna argue that you litteraly did not type words to that effect or that "Has he stopped anything?" isnt loaded with meaning...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I'm sorry, but thats BS.... Or are you gonna argue that you litteraly did not type words to that effect or that "Has he stopped anything?" isnt loaded with meaning...
If you did read that post properly than you would have noticed that in the quoted part (which you of course did not copy) a very specific reference was made to 911 and Madrid, do you believe that Bush has stopped either of these?
Didn't think so
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Anything, by definition, is a non-specific general reference. So either you were imprecise in your wording or you meant exactly what yiu said, which is it?
BTW when you quote somebody's post on this BBS it does not automatically copy a previous quote, only their original words in response to it. So dont insinuate anything about my motives...
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NEWS FLASH!!!
All Presidents past and present are and have always been LIERS;)
You know when you tell your wife what she wants to hear to keep from getting into a fight.
Well there ya go thats what Presidents do but really more to satisfie to fat cats that paid for there election .
You see they have to keep the special intrest happy so they can re elected.
Aint been been an honest Prez since Washington.
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Originally posted by Martlet
As soon as he finds him, I'm sure he will.
Unfortunatley the time when it mattered most it didnt happen Martlet.
Look I'm just trying to state that both administration's had there chance. It seems Clinton Blew it, since he had video evidence, But If this was major directive to capture/kill OBL, George Bush should have came into the ring swinging. If we were that close to him in the fall of 2000 then we werent to far behind him in the winter or spring of 2001.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Anything, by definition, is a non-specific general reference. So either you were imprecise in your wording or you meant exactly what yiu said, which is it?
It was the first, I should have said 'either of these' or 'anything about these'. You're absolutely right about that being formulated incorrectly.
That does not negate the circumstance that I am right about the Clinton-blaming though.... :D
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Originally posted by Nefarious
Unfortunatley the time when it mattered most it didnt happen Martlet.
Really? Which time was that? The time we saw a tall guy in white? Perhaps we should just change the directive to shoot all tall people?
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Originally posted by Thud
It was the first, I should have said 'either of these' or 'anything about these'. You're absolutely right about that being formulated incorrectly.
That does not negate the circumstance that I am right about the Clinton-blaming though.... :D
I agree, tough I feel that Clinton passed on some opportunites to catch Bin Laden. But I'm more upset by the fact that he didnt purse bin laden more vigoursuly after the Cole attack or the African embassy bombings, regardless of any post 911 "what ifs". It would be unfair to blame 911 on clinton just as it would be on bush, it was a "system" screwup very much like Pearl Harbor.
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Bush + Saudi Arabia = True Love
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How much of an impact our disputed election and the resultant delay in new governent formation (think thousands of appointmests to key posts) had on any terror concerns or general international concerns late in 2000 and early 2001? Certainly I feel it distracted us and focused us inwards...
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Originally posted by Martlet
Really? Which time was that?
Anytime before 9/11/01
Look, it was sad that he got away. But if we were so close in the Fall of 2000 then why wasnt he actively pursued in the Winter or the Spring and Summer of 2001. Looks like it was a mistake for both administrations.
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Actually, there is some evidence suggesting Pearl Harbor wasn't a complete suprise.
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Originally posted by hawker238
Actually, there is some evidence suggesting Pearl Harbor wasn't a complete suprise.
There was evidence about 911 as well. :( It just didnt all get put together and go to the right people in time, just like Pearl Harbor. Which is/was (depending on your perspective) the big point of the Patriot Act...
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Originally posted by Nefarious
Anytime before 9/11/01
Look, it was sad that he got away. But if we were so close in the Fall of 2000 then why wasnt he actively pursued in the Winter or the Spring and Summer of 2001. Looks like it was a mistake for both administrations.
Because at that time we never would have gotten the support of congress to invade Afghanistan. Attacking another country is a little different than a nation offering to hand him over, and us saying "no thanks".
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
How much of an impact our disputed election and the resultant delay in new governent formation (think thousands of appointmests to key posts) had on any terror concerns or general international concerns late in 2000 and early 2001? Certainly I feel it distracted us and focused us inwards...
But it was also necessary. Some may still diagree with the outcome but in a democracy it is of the utmost importance that election results are transferred into the government correctly and exactly like the voters want it to be.
I feel that unless you want to break down the fundamentals of democracy discussing this delay is a moot point.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Because at that time we never would have gotten the support of congress to invade Afghanistan. Attacking another country is a little different than a nation offering to hand him over, and us saying "no thanks".
Which never happened.
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You guys still don't get it. OBL is just a man, he himself isn't that dangerous. The network he runs is however. It's more important to take this down then him.
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Originally posted by Thud
But it was also necessary. Some may still diagree with the outcome but in a democracy it is of the utmost importance that election results are transferred into the government correctly and exactly like the voters want it to be.
I feel that unless you want to break down the fundamentals of democracy discussing this delay is a moot point.
Of coursre it was neccesary. Pardon but It seems you cant get away from assuming that Im meaning more or something sinister. I just asked because it was an intresting topic to discuss. :)
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No pres could have acted before 9/11, no one would support it. We are not an aggressive nation, so it takes alot for the population to agree to aggression.Hillary Clinton was giving a speach trying to get support for action against saddaam, but was run out of the building to chants of "no blood for oil". You think Bush would have gone after Iraq w/o 9/11? It would have been political suicide. OBL gave us the opportunity to finish him. Now let's finish OBL and get everyone home.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Which never happened.
Nah, never happened.
:aok
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Originally posted by Sixpence
No pres could have acted before 9/11, no one would support it. We are not an aggressive nation, so it takes alot for the population to agree to aggression.Hillary Clinton was giving a speach trying to get support for action against saddaam, but was run out of the building to chants of "no blood for oil". You think Bush would have gone after Iraq w/o 9/11? It would have been political suicide. OBL gave us the opportunity to finish him. Now let's finish OBL and get everyone home.
Great post.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
A Presidential order has been in place to KILL Bin Laden for over 7 years now. I wonder who gave that directive???
You guys need to read a freakin book.
Yeah, and then when they told Clinton they had Bin Laden, Clinton told them not to kill him. Basically Clinton lied about the order to kill Bin Ladden, as the CIA report states....Clinton ordered him to be taken alive.
Only Clinton's revisionist history states that they had an order to kill Bin Ladden.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You probably also read how the Sudan had him giftwrapped and Clinton said no thanks...
that's BS too.
Really? Would you care to hear Clinton himself explain this on tape?
http://newsmax.com/audio/BILLVH.mp3
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Does no one remember this video clip from a few years ago? I believe it was out not long after the WTC bombings. I specifically remember the watch he was wearing and the way he was holding the mic so that the watch was visible. It was speculated that this was a sign to operatives of some sort, as he had never been filmed with a watch on before.
I'll qualify this by saying that I can't watch this piece on Mozilla, and don't feel like starting IE just to see it, but that pic at the top of the article was enough to jog my memory.
If this is true, is MSNBC manufacturing news?
March 16: NBC has exclusively obtained secret CIA videotape of what is believed to be Osama bin Laden a year before 9/11.
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Originally posted by Lazerus
If this is true, is MSNBC manufacturing news?
Could be...it's a well-known fact that the New York Times does!
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Originally posted by midnight Target
A Presidential order has been in place to KILL Bin Laden for over 7 years now. I wonder who gave that directive???
You guys need to read a freakin book.
Really? and I saw the subsequent replies as well...
show me validated sources!
Any such presidential directive of this nature would be highly classified. A presidential directive means a written and signed authorization from POTUS. Moreover, Jimmy Carter put some roadblocks in place for such executive action.
Is a copy in the Clinton library for review?
I am not saying that Clinton did not sign such a directive but find me proof please. Yes, I did some searching out of curiosity and found some BS but just hearsay. Albiet I knew such would not be found.
For that matter find me proof, as in a copy, of any presidential directive authorizing such action in the last 30+ years. Those would be classified documents, and I mean classified way beyond TS with all sorts of color or codeword chit.
This is not intended to be a personal attack. Have a great week!
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Reports are saying now,
After the CIA showed the tapes to President Bush they agreed they would arm the Predator with Hellfires, Unfortunatley No armed Predators would be delivered before Sept 2001, and No more Unarmed Predators would make flights over Afghanistan until after 9/11.
Condoleeza Rice agreed with these statements and went on to say that 9/11 would have happened anyway and the death of Bin Laden would have been the primary reason behind 9/11.
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It was not that the predator wasn't armed, it was that they had located him in real time where he was and chose to do nothing about it. They could have send cruise missles and maybe taken him out.
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Originally posted by NUKE
It was not that the predator wasn't armed, it was that they had located him in real time where he was and chose to do nothing about it. They could have send cruise missles and maybe taken him out.
The Key word in your statement is maybe
Cruise missiles dont just appear out of nowhere, there targeted and launched, it could have taken 3 to 4 hours to have them even launched.
True we missed a golden oppurtunity, but even if we launched Tomahawks at him it, It would have been at least a couple hours for the missiles to even get to target.
The Chance was there, but it was slim.
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Another fact about that 'missed opportunity' is that OBL was in a farm like compound where there were lots of women and children. Any attack with the possibility of collateral damage like that would have been unacceptable at that time.
Are some of you saying that if WJC attacked and got OBL under those circumstances that your party wouldn't have castigated him for his actions?
Hindsight may not be 20/20 all the time I guess.
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Originally posted by MrLars
Another fact about that 'missed opportunity' is that OBL was in a farm like compound where there were lots of women and children. Any attack with the possibility of collateral damage like that would have been unacceptable at that time.
Are some of you saying that if WJC attacked and got OBL under those circumstances that your party wouldn't have castigated him for his actions?
Hindsight may not be 20/20 all the time I guess.
Well how true is that? Clinton sent dozens of cruise missles into afghanistan and sudan which are rather indiscriminate after they are targeted, who knows who will show up at the target areas. All I'm saying is that Clinton in practice prolly was less concrned than you are implying.
Howver I agree that there would have been political problems. IIRC he was accused of sending missles to distract from lewinsky scandal. Which I consider a disgrace for both parties behavior.
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Also, another interesting thing that my father told me was that we will not catch OBL alive.
The moment troops get within 100 yards of him, his "People" will put a bullet in his head and Martyrize him saying that the US did it.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Clinton did more to combat terrorism than any President before or even since (until 9-11).
Look it up. You will be surprised.
You are full of it! The Sudan tried to ransome OBL to Clinton twice. Both times we defered. They wanted foriegn aid and in turn would turn him over to us. We declined.
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1993 - WTC #1 - Captured tried and convicted the perps.
(the same perps were planning to kill the Pope and to blow up 12 US airliners simultaneously. didn't happen.
Clinton tripled the counterterrorism budget for the FBI and doubled counterterrorism funding overall.
Both very successful crime bills included anti-terror provisions.
His was the 1st administration to coordinate Nationwide simulations to test preparedness of local response teams for terrorist attacks.
Created the 1st nationwide stockpile of vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.
When Clinton asked for even more funding in 1996 Orin Hatch (R) said " The administration would be wise to utilize the resources already provided before asking for more."
Clinton asked for increased wiretap authority after the Oklahoma City bombing... Gingrich helped shut it down. (Can you say "Patriot Act"?)
Immediately after the embassy bombings in Kenya Clinton issued a Presidential directive authorizing the assasination of OBL.
Clinton appointed Richard Clark as the 1st National Antiterrorism Coordinator.
Before Clinton left office he directed Clark to come up with a plan...That plan was presented to Condi and GWB and it included....
1. Attack and break up Al Quaida cells
2. Attack financial support freeze assets.
3. Assist other Govt's having Al Quaida trouble (Yemen, Phillipines and Uzbekistan)
4. Scale up covert action in Afghanistan to eliminate training camps and get to Bin Laden
5. Support the Northern Alliance and palce special forces on the ground in Afghanistan.
(exactly what Bush decided to do..... too late)
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Originally posted by 2Slow
You are full of it! The Sudan tried to ransome OBL to Clinton twice. Both times we defered. They wanted foriegn aid and in turn would turn him over to us. We declined.
I believe they offered to turn him over to the Saudis and they were the ones who declined.