Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Baddawg on May 29, 2001, 01:25:00 PM
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It sure has become all to prevalent as of late (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif).
Is everyone Okay with this? It sure seems to me to be DERNIER CRI
It looks to me to be the easiest way to rack up kills in a Panzer to assist in a total ranking aspect.
So my question is should people who capitalize on a flaw in the game be rewarded?
And how can someone like myself who's only claim to a multiple kill streak is a good vulch, (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) oppose something so similar?
Well I see the biggest difference; because spawn points have no defenses that have to be
surpassed in order to destroy the enemy.
To much of a "quake" style of game play.
Not that there is anything wrong with quake style but why should it be replicated here?
This type of an activity of just sitting back and pulling on the trigger as soon as someone appears on the spawn point somehow just leaves a sour taste on my palate.
I wont berate those who partake in it but then I wonder if this activity enhances the total experience of this Sim. I personally think ..not.
[This message has been edited by Baddawg (edited 05-29-2001).]
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personally I agree... however there is an easy fix.
spawn from a different point.
It is just like trying to take off from a capped field... move to another if you don't want to get vulched.
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Don’t have any problems with someone camping at a spawn point. Same thing for vulching. It may be “gaming the game” but I think it’s smart. After all, why are multiple gv’s spawning from that point, your base is under attack maybe?
Zippatuh
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Wlfgng, the only problem I see is that Time to arrive at a particular point on the map in an airplane is far less than the large amount of time it would take to take a ground vehicle to even get to the same sector.
While I agree that if one gets vulched or is the victim of a camper that they move elsewhere,however my point is that there are certain defensive measures to curtail persistant vulching that require some risk to reap the reward, camping on a spawn point
does not carry that same amount of effort.
Im not angry if I get plugged spawning but my concern is that it seems to me that it is becoming more and more common practice.
Although this is a gameplay issue and I should of put in the other forum but I cant help but stick it in here to see what Ideas come forth to maybe set forth changes in what I feel is flawed .
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Well, its a tactical decision, as Zip pointed out. Your basically hitting a 'choke point'. If I spawn, and die, then I usually get a airplane with a big-assed bomb, and go back to clear that choke point out.
I've been at both the receiving end of a camper (only spawn once, I'm smart enough to let it go, come back with an airplane, instead of playing John Wayne) and I've been the camper..anyone remember back in the old days when I used to broadcast "I own this hill!" and racked up 45+ kills? About 30 of those kills were the same guy who kept trying to rotate his gun fast enough to shoot me...bad move.
I think some folks see it as 'gaming'...but if you told a general in WW2 that you strategically placed your tanks along a slightly elevated ridge in a hull down position and managed to kill 45 tanks coming down out of a pass that only had one road,(Kasserin Pass in Afrika?) you'd be decorated a hero. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 05-29-2001).]
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Thing is that the camper most likely fought his way to the spawn point, the resulting vulches are his reward. As for camping being more prevelant lately, so has continual re-spawning...you can't seperate the two!
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Lars
***MOL***
Men Of Leisure
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LOL! Good point MrLars! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I think some folks see it as 'gaming'...but if you told a general in WW2 that you strategically placed your tanks along a slightly elevated ridge in a hull down position and managed to kill 45 tanks coming down out of a pass that only had one road,(Kasserin Pass in Afrika?) you'd be decorated a hero.
Bingo! Exactly what I was thinking rip.
I have never just felt the need to drive to a spawn point and just sit there waiting for someone to pop up. Every time I've made it there, It was because there was a gv assault that was fought back to the point where I ended near the spawn point and could nail them instantly. Had one yesterday that lasted for 30 kills. 26 of them happened at the point... 4 of them prior to reaching it. Killed 3 ostwinds and an M3 on my way there.
Its not dweeby... it may be more gaming than simulating... but then what about GVs in AH isn't really just gaming?
AKDejaVu
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BTW... the first tank I killed at the spawn point was RedSky. He came after me in a Typhoon but was shot down. A couple others spawned including RedSky to see if I was still there. When I killed him, he brought an Il-2 in from a different base and made 2 straffing runs on me. Someone else just chose to continually respawn.
AKDejaVu
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I agree that there is more camping and vulching.. probably due to the increase in newbies.. after all.. they're easy kills.
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Originally posted by Wlfgng:
I agree that there is more camping and vulching.. probably due to the increase in newbies.. after all.. they're easy kills.
Yah, its one of those things that are fun for awhile...then the novelty wears off, or, as in Deja's scenario, you need to stop the flow of tanks (choke point) to a said airfield.
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I don't condone this kind of behavior and I would never do such a thing!
(http://www.raf303.org/308/screens/46kills.gif)
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LOL Funked!
BTW... Baddawg = Dogftr (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
AKDejaVu
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Capping a spawn point - frustrating when someone does it to you, a blast when you do it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I have been on both ends. There are ways to kill the camper. Couple days ago I managed to get into a camp spot, and was killing pnzrs and osties and having a blast. They guys I was killing found a way to stop me, they spawned a whole bunch of tanks and osties at the same time. I couldnt fire quick enough, they split up and started firing me up. Took my gun down fast.
I have, when faced with a camper, came back in an airplane to bomb the guy. There is always a way to stop a camper.
Dago
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) wow... sounds like someone is real bored
-whwk-
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There is a solution to this y'know....
How about some sort of dynamic spawn point system where the spawn varies based on location of enemy gvs and planes?
This is going to be a lengthy explanation but give it a read if you are interested..
I'm approaching this in a technical sense as a programmer
The system as I see it would have these advantages:
You would (probably) never see an enemy gv spawn. He would always come up from BVR and the direction of his base as one would expect from a real life ground attack.
Spawn point camping would be impossible.
You could establish a defensive line of planes and gvs near your base and all incoming gvs would have to go through that line. This would stop you having to worry about new gvs spawning behind you when you are between your base and theirs (assuming you are reasonably close to your base) One or a small number of gvs or planes might affect the spawn point but if there is still enough room to the left or right, gvs could still get past.
A lot of times I've found having vehicles just appear in the middle of a battle kills the immersion for me, both when in the gv and when seeing it happen.
It is somewhat more feasible when an a/c appears on a runway at a field belonging to its country, but having a vehicle come out of no where x miles from a base always looks silly if you are there to see it.
My idea is to set up the gv spawn system so enemies never see a gv spawn. I am under the impression now that the spawn points are a fixed point in space in which a vehicle appears at a random point within a certain radius of the fixed spawn point. What I am suggesting is to have the fixed spawn point dynamically locate itself on the server side.
The possible area that the spawn point could be placed upon would be a rectangular area of land that is parallel and centered length-wise on a line running from the origin base to the destination base. It could be limited to > x miles from destination base and also be required to be a certain number of miles away from origin base.
There would be a preferred spawn point set where the gv would spawn assuming there is no one else around. If it can't spawn there the new spawn point would always be farther back to avoid having gvs come up on far side of a defensive line of enemy gvs.
The logic of how the spawn point would move from there would be determined as follows (with this priority)
1) are there one or more enemy gvs within x miles of the preferred spawn point? If so move spawn point back and left and right (within determined rectangle) as needed so the spawned gv is just outside visual range of any enemy gvs.
2) are there any enemy planes within x miles of the preferred spawn point (or the new one determined by step 1) who are under 10k feet? If so move spawn point farther back again, at least keeping spawned gvs outside of icon range, i'm going to say 3-4k is probably sufficient here since gvs are very hard to spot when you don't have a good idea where to look. (anyone over 10k is beyond the range in which they can effectively interact with a gv unless they want to level bomb it from a bombsight. Most people above this altitude will not be looking for gvs.)
Also additional complexity can be added to #2 to track how long a plane has been inside the radius considered too close to current spawn point. Only after a certain amount of time would the plane have an effect on the spawn point, this could be further weighted by checking altitude. Very low alt on the outside edge of the radius or altitudes very close to 10k should take more time to effect the movement of the spawn point. this would keep it from being jumpy and make it so if a bunch of you spawned at once you'd be more likely to stay more or less together.
Using these criteria the server could dynamically move the various spawn points around during game play. When an actual request to spawn a gv is received, the server (or this part could be done client side even) would randomly pick a point inside the specified radius around the dynamically determined point, and also could check for terrain suitability. Mainly suitability would be not in water and also it should look at height of the random point vs. the average height of the terrain in the radius around the point and limit the variance to avoid spawning at the top of a mountain.
I'd like to hear opinions of others if anyone actually got through that and understood it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-sequence
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Originally posted by funked:
I don't condone this kind of behavior and I would never do such a thing!
(http://www.raf303.org/308/screens/46kills.gif)
Didn't you get 76 once?
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Yup. fight your way through an attack to their spawn point...then wack em as long as you can...
Tank heaven.
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Originally posted by Baddawg:
I wont berate those who partake in it but then I wonder if this activity enhances the total experience of this Sim. I personally think ..not.[/B]
BRING ON THE BLOODPIG!
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I thought I heard Hitech say earlier today that he was thinking about building for the player the ability to manually insert the spawn point along a given axis for that particular sortie.
I may have misunderstood....
Y
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Geez Funked, that bloom25 guy ruined your fun with that Typhoon of his. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(LOL, I still remember that, before you I had 15 kills or so, but I had to fight my way through the first 5 or so to get near the spawn pt. )
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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I wanted to feel the thrill of pumping round after round into spawning sleezeball scurvy rooks at point blank range as thew spewed forth like Heinleins ants, so when the bastidges attempted to overrun 24 earlier this evening I upped a panzer and clanked on over to the eastern enemy armor spawn point.. I tagged a panzer and an m16 while on the way, and after being divebombed back to the tent about 40 times finally managed to make it all the way there...
...only to sit there fer 45 minutes with my thumb up my butt.
I came to the probably incorrect conclusion that Spawn Point Camping ain't all it's cracked up to be.. sittin in that tank fer almost an hour with myself and a stinky thumb was more than I can stand.
Hang
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Yep I remember Bloom, and I fought my way out there too, but got killed and came back to take over for you. I should also mention that Pongo would have had about half of mine if not for my uber-ping. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Why not make the spawned vehicle non-killable until it clears the hangar/spawn area?
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Has anyone taking the time to map out the spawn points for the various maps?
I would like to have one as I need all the help I can get in GV's.
Eagler
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Originally posted by Eagler:
Has anyone taking the time to map out the spawn points for the various maps?
I would like to have one as I need all the help I can get in GV's.
Eagler
Yes, I have, but...its all done with 60's technology (Pen, pencil and ruler)
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hiya all:
well I agree with camping at the spawn point, makes it hard for ostwinds to park at the end of the runway racking up kills. but I geuss those ostwind jockys might see it differant.
wolf37
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Nope I agree Wolf.
And sitting on a Spawn point Is not in My opinion vulching, Face it the GV's spawning aren't out on a Sunday dive, If a guy has the patince to drive out to one and sit until something pops up "have a blast" The Guy that keeps spawning over and over and over is responsible for how many kills he gives the defensive tank, Not the other way around.
One GA fighter will dispatch a parked panzer asap. If one is having trouble getting up he should radio for SP cover, There's allot of GA pilots that would love to frag that tank for You.
(http://null.dk/~ssl/483/dg.gif)
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Originally posted by RebootSequence:
There is a solution to this y'know....
How about some sort of dynamic spawn point system where the spawn varies based on location of enemy gvs and planes?
-sequence
Don't think this "problem" requires a software solution. Call in the Schturms... they'll fix it.
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cheers,
sand
screamin blue messiahs (http://www.screaminbluemessiahs.org)
The SBM's are hiring! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum11/HTML/000263.html)