Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: muckmaw on March 19, 2004, 11:41:51 AM
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040316-012405-1741r.htm
China, France begin naval exercises
BEIJING, March 16 (UPI) -- China and France began five days of joint exercises off the northern Chinese coast Tuesday, prompting Taiwan to claim it was a threatening show of force.
France is also lobbying EU countries to drop the 15-year-old embargo on arms sales to China, imposed after the brutal 1989 suppression of pro-democracy demonstrators, the Financial Times said.
The exercises involve staging search and rescue missions, refueling exercises and tactical helicopter exchanges.
On the diplomatic front, France angered Taiwan recently by strongly condemning President Chen Shui-bian's plan to hold a referendum on missile defense as part of this coming Saturday's election, prompting Taipei to suspend top-level ties with Paris.
Taipei-based defense analyst Andrew Yang played down the significance of the exercise's proximity to the Taiwan elections, saying the drills were similar to those conducted recently by the Chinese navy with the fleets of India and Pakistan.
"It does not have direct implications for the situation in Taiwan," said Yang, who said it was more a reflection of China's determination to forge ties with foreign fleets.
---Looking for a new customer to fill the void left by Iraq?
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France has no interest in making money from arms sales. They just want to help China protect its sovereignty from the US, which has become a dangerous hegomonic hyperpower and a threat to world peace.
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Originally posted by ra
France has no interest in making money from arms sales. They just want to help China protect its sovereignty from the US, which has become a dangerous hegomonic hyperpower and a threat to world peace.
Where's the little smiley thing that says your kidding....please tell me your kidding...
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Frankly, if France wants to be a weapon systems producer they have to find markets of this type. The US can underwrite its programs with a huge military/volume cost reductions and GDP -- other countries can't. The need for France to have a homegrown military industrial complex can certainly be debated. And, obviously, this is not a stabilizing development by any means.
By the same token, we may not sell China arms but we sure don't have much of a problem dealing with them in other economic sectors. The consumer market is too appealing, unlike Cuba where it's easy to be tough on repression. True under Clinton, true under Bush. Not just using China as a mfg/labor source either, but joint ventures that make existing Chinese companies more competitive in non-centrally controlled markets.
The wisdom of exactly what we get in return is questionable, IMO. I've talked to several people involved at senior levels with some of these joint ventures, and off the record they tended to doubt if we will ever see China as an "open" market for Western companies. IMO, they'll learn what they can, then do it themselves.
Charon
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I see no problem with France selling conventional weapons to China.
Charon also has a some good points.
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Lol, I have no problem with france selling China weapons.
We all know the kind of quality that comes out france, things like...
Um...
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like.....
Mirages, Rafales, exocet, nuke subs, leclerc, cortale, eryx, mica, VBCI, charles de gaulle, la fayette,(tiger, horizon, nh90 and a400m partly) etc...etc
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Lol, I have no problem with france selling China weapons.
We all know the kind of quality that comes out france, things like...
Um...
This!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauchat
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Nilsen, we are talking about quality stuff that france produces, not crappy stuff...
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yeah, and your point is?
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Well, we're looking for quality stuff that france produces. We don't need a list of crap that they produce...
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and just what have i listed that is crap?
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Some countries even display their crap on islands, imagine that. :rolleyes:
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lol, i actuallly forgot the only french weapon i have actually used..the mistral. Very good missile and it hits every time if the guy shooting it is awake and focused :D
i actually did not get that Torque, could you explain pls (havent had my nap today)
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At least in France we don't produce crappy moronic teenagers posting stupid moronic(*) coment in a BBS...
errr wait ... they just don't post here :D
(*) I know it's a repetition thanks.
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STRAFFO = BEST FERNCH PRDUCT EVAR!
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pull the trigger and this pops out the barrel:
(http://www.lonelyplanet.com/journeys/graphics/whiteflag.gif)
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China is not a threat to the US. We need them for cheap consumer goods and they need us the largest consumer market.
Our 2 economies to a large degree rely on each other. That's the difference between other commie countries and states like Cuba or even the old USSR. Its definately different then our relationship with Iraq.
China is also a large developing market and its only nature that Nations compete for access to that market.
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thx for taking the thread back on track Batz
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Dunno storch. Do you think you and I could take over france with a few shotguns? or do you think we'll need a third?
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Well all the talk about arms sales certainly makes sense but I think that there is another reason for the manuevers which is not being explored. France understands that China is the next great adversary of the United States and I think that perhaps they may be angling for a new realignment of power. Gallic pride has too
long suffered under the constraints of a realpolitik which dictated that no longer was France the leader of the free world. If she cannot lead, she will undermine and China is the tool by which they hope to accomplish it.
There is a large degree of truth in what Batz wrote about the interdependence of our economies but the imbalance is too one sided to sustain. Ultimately that imbalance will lead both countries to reassess their national policies and that could ultimately lead to conflict. The ruthlessness with which the Chinese can approach a conflict based on the application of their totalitarian system should not be underestimated. I just think that France is going exploit the adversarial relationship between China and the US for all it's worth.
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First, China is of absolutely ZERO military threat to the use. They have no way to attack us other than the use of nuclear weapons which we have many more than they do and which would also bring about teh end of the world.
Second, I'd love to see the Chinese army use French equipment rather than their own. When was the last time any French military equipment was used to actually kill the enemy? the French revolution... and the only reason it worked was cause they were fighting, well, the French.
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IIRC the Exocet robot did sink a few british ships in the Falklands war (including a destroyer/frigate 'HMS Sheffield').
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Originally posted by GScholz
I don't think the Exocet has ever missed a war shot. By far the most battle proven AS missile in the world.
really? Is that simlar to the F-15 having never been shot down? I seem to remember you saying that the F-15's combat record didn't mean a lot.
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A small boat loaded with C-4 puts about the same size hole in the side of a Destroyer (USS Cole) And costs much less and proves to be much more accurate.
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Braver and better men than most here are serving with US soldiers in Afghanistan and Haiti right now, and they are French.
But don't let that get in the way of your pity ignorances.
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American kids always thinks their toys are best. They have prolly used it in some computer game and made their conclusions based on that, or some American general has said so on TV and therefore it must be true.
:p
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The one thing I do find funny about french equipment is the name they give to some of the stuff.
"Super Etendard"... I mean, come on.. ;)
Matra, Giat, Dassault are pretty high-tech tho.
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hehe yeah, some of those names sounds wierd...like the "super retard"
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hahem ... you never heard of the C.R.A.P. ?
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no straffo :D
btw..what does etendard mean...if anything
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The C.R.A.P. is the : Comando Recherche Action en Profondeur a sort of SEAL/SAS
And étendard is a battle flag in French.
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Originally posted by Nilsen10
American kids always thinks their toys are best. They have prolly used it in some computer game and made their conclusions based on that, or some American general has said so on TV and therefore it must be true.
:p
No ... there you are mistaken. G.I. Joe with kung-fu grip, Mattel M-16s, water rockets, bottle rockets, pellet guns that could be pumped up to 100 p.s.i. (you're gonna put your eye out with that, kid!) and Tonka! Boomarangs and bows and arrows. K-nockers used as bolos. Figured if we can make all the destructive things things we do for kids ... for fun ... then ... gawsh .... what if we REALLY got some serious money to play with?!
When the "safe toys" generation takes over then we're screwed.
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taiwan is 100% to have nukes. china is pushing a point. taiwan will do what she wants. probly reunite with china eventualy on hong kong type terms.
france will do what she wants. american oppinions litteraly dont matter.
and since they have boomers (icbm equipped subs) american opinion don count for ****.
i really wish my countrymen would shut the **** up and read a book.
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Originally posted by Saintaw
STRAFFO = BEST FERNCH PRDUCT EVAR!
SAW = SECOND BEST FERNCH PRDUCT EVAR!
And damn good at finding good drinking spots!!
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
taiwan is 100% to have nukes. china is pushing a point. taiwan will do what she wants. probly reunite with china eventualy on hong kong type terms.
france will do what she wants. american oppinions litteraly dont matter.
and since they have boomers (icbm equipped subs) american opinion don count for ****.
i really wish my countrymen would shut the **** up and read a book.
:rolleyes: :lol :aok